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On January 18 2015 15:55 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 15:48 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:32 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:22 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:19 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:11 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:08 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:05 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:01 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 14:57 pigmanbear wrote:
[quote]
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result. Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far. "Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa. Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment. Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now. For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history. I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all? Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation. Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs. And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012. And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition. I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance. pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
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On January 18 2015 16:02 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 15:55 Sub40APM wrote:On January 18 2015 15:48 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:32 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:22 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:19 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:11 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:08 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:05 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:01 stuchiu wrote:
[quote]
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa. Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment. Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now. For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history. I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all? Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation. Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs. And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012. And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition. I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance. pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played? Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 18 2015 16:01 lichter wrote:
wow cogent? are you cosmicspiral
I am also
Bill Simmons
Jalen Rose
David Jacoby
Bill Barnwell
Juliet Litman
Rembert Browne
Zach Lowe
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im just glad to see him return.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 18 2015 16:03 stuchiu wrote:I am also Bill Simmons Jalen Rose David Jacoby Bill Barnwell Juliet Litman Rembert Browne Zach Lowe
Nah. They're you, but you're not them.
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On January 18 2015 14:25 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote:
So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them? Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
Kane can move anywhere in the world and still not have any results. bad player+bad person. Ladder doesn't really mean much.
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I would prefer Idrah but NaNiwa is ok
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On January 18 2015 16:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:02 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:55 Sub40APM wrote:On January 18 2015 15:48 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:32 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:22 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:19 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:11 pigmanbear wrote:On January 18 2015 15:08 stuchiu wrote:On January 18 2015 15:05 pigmanbear wrote:
[quote]
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa. Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment. Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now. For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history. I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all? Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation. Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs. And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012. And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition. I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance. pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played? Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer. Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Guess we all better sit back and let the wisdom drop
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To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws is to deny Naniwa his humanity,
10000000000000000000000000000% On point! Best article on TL for the entire duration of SC2 so far. Only other article that is compatible to the level of epic-ness that is this article, would be Naniwa's "temporary retirement" article.
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On January 18 2015 16:10 Cheeseling wrote:
I would prefer Idrah but NaNiwa is ok
I want to make an Idra vs. Naniwa joke, but I would not survive the ensuing hellfire. 
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On January 18 2015 14:04 mYiKane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 14:00 Jornada wrote:On January 18 2015 13:49 mYiKane wrote:On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft. Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough  This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier.... You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again. I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
Kane sounds pretty salty right now :\ must be stressing over the fact that he has to play qualifiers over and over again... btw Kane the fact that you're insulting people for liking a personality other than you, kind of contradicts yourself proclaimed title of a "good person" or to "be[come] a good person".
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China6333 Posts
Typical Naniwa thread, love it.
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I like Naniwa and I'm super excited to see some more games of his this season. Hope you do well in WCS this year Nani!
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Good article. Typo in second to last row - "earht".
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I for one certainly appriciate the fact that Naniwa speaks his mind; I am much too simple a man for conceit, intrigues and public relations-approved communication.
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Earlier in this thread, Kane had this to say:
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
in other words, Kane thinks everyone who ISN'T making money from the scene, "irrelevant fanboys." Seriously, fuck this guy. Your motherfucking pay cheque is based at some point on our attention and willingness to donate to you.
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On January 18 2015 16:31 Darkened wrote:Good article. Typo in second to last row - "earht".
Not a typo, check page 3 for the tefel screenshot.
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How come Kane is salty? He use to harass everyone on the NA ladder back when he was just an average GM. I use to watch IdrA/huk/incontrol stream back in the day, and Kane would annoy/snipe/bm all day lol.
I'm glad Naniwa is coming back, despite his attitude, he is a good player with many achievements in his career.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On January 18 2015 16:31 Darkened wrote:Good article. Typo in second to last row - "earht".
tefel disagrees
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Who's not having fun with the NaNiwa controversy?
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EPT
