The qualifiers for SPOTV's upcoming Starleague tournament were held in Seoul today. International seeds had been announced for Scarlett, Jim and Life beforehand. Here's the list of players joining them in the SSL Ro32:
I'm happy about Dream making it in. I could really see him prosper at SKT. Seriously though, all my protoss favorites (except Classic) are out, had to kill each other or will have to kill each other in the wildcard bracket
On December 11 2014 21:26 Zealously wrote: herO vs Bbyong or Life vs Flash compared to Terminator vs Taeja or Scarlett vs TY -.-
So you are sad that Scarlett got an invite? Yeah me too
I am not sad that Scarlett got an invite, I am sad that she got an invite when the Ro32 format is like this. In a group stage I wouldn't mind, but as it stands now there are matches that could easily be (and have been) finals of any tournament and matches that will be so one-sided that 3-0 doesn't do it justice.
Also, make sure to remember this guy's predictions:
On December 11 2014 21:26 Zealously wrote: herO vs Bbyong or Life vs Flash compared to Terminator vs Taeja or Scarlett vs TY -.-
So you are sad that Scarlett got an invite? Yeah me too
I am not sad that Scarlett got an invite, I am sad that she got an invite when the Ro32 format is like this. In a group stage I wouldn't mind, but as it stands now there are matches that could easily be (and have been) finals of any tournament and matches that will be so one-sided that 3-0 doesn't do it justice.
Also, make sure to remember this guy's predictions:
On December 11 2014 21:42 Soularion wrote: Predictionsssss
Rogue 3:2 Soulkey Classic 1:3 Cure Terminator 0:3 TaeJa Solar 3:1 Dream Life 3:1 Flash Scarlett 2:3 TY sKyHigH 3:2 GuMiho Stats 2:3 INnoVation Patience 1:3 Dear Maru 3:1 Jim Dark 3:2 PartinG MyuNgSiK 3:2 San Super 3:1 ByuL herO 3:1 Bbyong FanTaSy 1:3 MarineKing
Stats vs INno, Dark vs PartinG, herO vs Bbyong, Life vs Flash and Scarlett vs TY are my top 5 most hyped - in no particular order.
He will make excuses when any of them are wrong!
Yeah the format sucks, i agree. I also don't like that they will use GSL style in the ro16, but that is another topic. Maybe Scarlett can actually win vs TY though, TY isn't the most consistent player. But some of those decider matches are really playoff caliber -.-
Making predictions recently feels a bit meaningless considering all the upsets in this tournament! with that said I will predict anyway :D
(Z)Rogue 3-1 (Z)Soulkey (P)Classic 3-2 (T)Cure I wouldn't be surprised to see cure win, Classic feels shaky to me. (P)Terminator 0-3 (T)TaeJa (Z)Solar 3-1 (T)Dream (Z)Life 2-3 (T)Flash (Z)Scarlett 1-3 (T)TY Kind of a shame that Scarlett drew a a terran. TY is an excellent player (T)sKyHigh 3-2 (T)GuMiho sKyHigh's TvT is very good, upset here (P)Stats 2-3 (T)INnoVation (P)Patience 2-3 (P)Dear (T)Maru 3-1 (P)Jim (Z)Dark 1-3 (P)PartinG (P)MyuNgSiK 3-2 (P)San San overrated I always feel. Should be a close series (P)Super 1-3 (Z)ByuL (P)HerO 3-1 (T)Bbyong herO is a word class player, earlier posts have HerO mislabeled, Its the cj player who made it through TBD - (Z)Leenock Hopefully Zest/SoO. (T)FanTaSy 1-3 (T)MKP² Feeling the MKP hype train outside of the finals of anything
On December 11 2014 21:50 SNSeigifried wrote: I just realized atleast from what ive read that there is no wcs points unless you qualify for round of 16 in SSL 0_0
No money either. They have to do it that way because of the invites. Scarlett, Jim and Life are invited to the round of 32, and you aren't allowed to invite directly into a spot that gives points. You need to advance at least one round
On December 11 2014 21:50 SNSeigifried wrote: I just realized atleast from what ive read that there is no wcs points unless you qualify for round of 16 in SSL 0_0
No money either. They have to do it that way because of the invites. Scarlett, Jim and Life are invited to the round of 32, and you aren't allowed to invite directly into a spot that gives points. You need to advance at least one round
They don't have to. They could award points to RO32, it's just those that were invited would get nothing if they lost.
On December 11 2014 21:57 vult wrote: Wow all those zergs in the wildcard!! Even TerrOr lol surprised Wolf didn't say anything about him being terrible.
This whole tournament seems kind of random. There were qualifiers that were kind of one-and-half elimination brackets seeding people into another single-elimination thing. The qualifiers were rushed in a day and we are left with a list of people that's not really representative of anything and half of them will be eliminated with big dependence on luck of the bracket draw .. Is this gonna be the case also for the next instances of this league, or will there be some carry-over from the last season? I know that a simillar thing goes on in the WCS, but this is not WCS, so they have space to make things better, but they chose not to ...
My SKT boys matches are quite hype! INno vs Stats! Excellent TvP and SKT vs KT! Dream vs Solar! Solar is one of the top Zergs in te world and Dream has huge potential and is very entertaining! hype! Classic vs cure! Also an excellent TvP if Classic brings his A game and cure plays like last GSL :D Dark vs Parting! Dark is gonna be top3 zerg in the future and rekt Parting last time, gonna be cool to see a rematch Also Life vs Flash and herO vs Bbyong??!!? Siiiick And TY stomping Scarlett should be fun
List of some of the more notable people who participated and did NOT qualify:
Stork MMA soO Bomber First YoDa jjakji MC Creator (apparently forfeited his matches) DRG HyuN Symbol sOs Rain Liquid Hero TRUE Trap Zest
Of all the Koreans "returning" to Korea after competing in WCS AM and EU in 2014, the only ones who made it into SSL are San and Patience. Edit: and TaeJa, forgot him.
Of course there's always still WCS...
Shame no soO/Bomber/Zest/sOs/Rain, but that's the nature of bracket qualifiers...
Also it's interesting to note players who did not even participate, like:
Mvp (retirement probably confirmed) ByuN (hopes of comeback likely dashed)
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
Sorry, but (and that's just with this side of the story), those admins are jackasses if they tolerate certain behaviour from a team (even if it's JAGW) and not from a player... On the other hand, it's his own responsibility to be on time and at least notify the admins.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
Sorry, but (and that's just with this side of the story), those admins are jackasses if they tolerate certain behaviour from a team (even if it's JAGW) and not from a player... On the other hand, it's his own responsibility to be on time and at least notify the admins.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Actually I just realized Jaedong joined EG in December 2012. Did he actually move to the U.S. at that time, or was he still living in Korea? If he moved to U.S. he might qualify to play in WCS Premier under the "ForGG exception" as well. I always assumed he was still living in Korea just because I don't remember hearing anyone talk about him having moved.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Actually I just realized Jaedong joined EG in December 2012. Did he actually move to the U.S. at that time, or was he still living in Korea? If he moved to U.S. he might qualify to play in WCS Premier under the "ForGG exception" as well.
Ùhh DID he move to USA? Not sure... I don't think he has legal documents either.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Actually I just realized Jaedong joined EG in December 2012. Did he actually move to the U.S. at that time, or was he still living in Korea? If he moved to U.S. he might qualify to play in WCS Premier under the "ForGG exception" as well. I always assumed he was still living in Korea just because I don't remember hearing anyone talk about him having moved.
As far as I know he never moved to the U.S, or at least didn't stay there for any significant length of time. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard otherwise.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Until nothing else is announced I will assume it was just too much travel this year and he needs a break and wants to spend time with his family until next year. I hope he joins SSL in season 2 and plays GSL from Season 1. But it's kinda weird that there is no news from EG about Jaedong at all, like confirming if he re-signed and what the plan for next year is. Anything really.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Until nothing else is announced I will assume it was just too much travel this year and he needs a break and wants to spend time with his family until next year. I hope he joins SSL in season 2 and plays GSL from Season 1. But it's kinda weird that there is no news from EG about Jaedong at all, like confirming if he re-signed and what the plan for next year is. Anything really.
I'd normally say no news is good news, but skipping a huge qualifier for a 3/4 month League AND no information about his signing/not resigning strikes me as very odd. Especially for a Media Machine team as EG. In that case, they might have let him go.
On December 11 2014 23:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: Whats up with Jaedong? He doesn't have a U.S. Visa, and he didnt play in the qualifier?
Yeah that's another one in addition to the two in my post. Someone needs to make a list of notable Koreans who are not known to have retired and did not participate in the qualifiers (other than Polt, viOLet, ForGG and StarDust who are likely able to play in WCS Premier).
EG ran out of dirty money to fly him to random shit he would underperform in.
jk jk he actually started doing really well the last month, so I'm a bit sad he didn't show up...
Actually I just realized Jaedong joined EG in December 2012. Did he actually move to the U.S. at that time, or was he still living in Korea? If he moved to U.S. he might qualify to play in WCS Premier under the "ForGG exception" as well. I always assumed he was still living in Korea just because I don't remember hearing anyone talk about him having moved.
As far as I know he never moved to the U.S, or at least didn't stay there for any significant length of time. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard otherwise.
Nah, he never moved to the US. We would've heard about that.
Sorry, but (and that's just with this side of the story), those admins are jackasses if they tolerate certain behaviour from a team (even if it's JAGW) and not from a player... On the other hand, it's his own responsibility to be on time and at least notify the admins.
It's so sad
I feel bad for him and understand his mental breakdown having had my own before
On December 11 2014 23:29 royalroadweed wrote: Dream and Dark qualified. Sorry was close to making it too. SKT seem to have the best prospects right now.
Maru Rogue Terminator Cure say hello!
Of those, three sort of easily go through and the fourth is in big trouble
The Jin Air Hype Plane is leaving, hop on or stay on the derailing SKT Train!
On December 11 2014 23:29 royalroadweed wrote: Dream and Dark qualified. Sorry was close to making it too. SKT seem to have the best prospects right now.
Maru Rogue Terminator Cure say hello!
Of those, three sort of easily go through and the fourth is in big trouble
The Jin Air Hype Plane is leaving, hop on or stay on the derailing SKT Train!
Maru and cure aren't prospects. They've pretty much already made it. Especially maru.
On December 11 2014 23:29 royalroadweed wrote: Dream and Dark qualified. Sorry was close to making it too. SKT seem to have the best prospects right now.
Maru Rogue Terminator Cure say hello!
Of those, three sort of easily go through and the fourth is in big trouble
The Jin Air Hype Plane is leaving, hop on or stay on the derailing SKT Train!
On December 11 2014 23:23 royalroadweed wrote: San over soO? Has he finally been broken?
If you watch the recent San vs Life too many times, you may forget that San is actually seriously good at PvZ, but he is. Yonghwa over soO is more of a surprise though
On December 11 2014 22:19 opisska wrote: This whole tournament seems kind of random. There were qualifiers that were kind of one-and-half elimination brackets seeding people into another single-elimination thing. The qualifiers were rushed in a day and we are left with a list of people that's not really representative of anything and half of them will be eliminated with big dependence on luck of the bracket draw .. Is this gonna be the case also for the next instances of this league, or will there be some carry-over from the last season? I know that a simillar thing goes on in the WCS, but this is not WCS, so they have space to make things better, but they chose not to ...
This is a good thing to remind people of:
Top 4 SSL finishers get seeded directly into the next main event. Finishers 5-8 get seeded directly into Challenger. All others have to requalify.
So yes as this league goes on (hopefully past 2015!) it should get more stacked over time like GSL did.
Overall very balanced though, the only two players who would shock me if they won are Jim, Terminator and Dream, and more because they're playing three of the best in the world, not because they're bad.
Sorry, but (and that's just with this side of the story), those admins are jackasses if they tolerate certain behaviour from a team (even if it's JAGW) and not from a player... On the other hand, it's his own responsibility to be on time and at least notify the admins.
It's so sad
More when you know how emotional player he is... But don't worry he WILL qualify for GSL, plus Myungsik will avenge him if he already didn't... And be happy about TerrOr almost making it, he wasn't showing anything in past in offline performances, maybe this is about to change! ^^
Top 5 matches in order: Life vs Flash Scarlett vs TY (not exactly because of quality, but just because foreigner hype) Innovation vs Stats Bbyong vs herO Fantasy vs MarineKing
Cure vs Classic would be good if both were playing in top form, but I was not super impressed from their recent play.
On December 11 2014 21:29 DarkLordOlli wrote: I'm happy about Dream making it in. I could really see him prosper at SKT. Seriously though, all my protoss favorites (except Classic) are out, had to kill each other or will have to kill each other in the wildcard bracket
Never forget Dream vs Scarlett in ATC. God what a game that was
On December 11 2014 21:29 DarkLordOlli wrote: I'm happy about Dream making it in. I could really see him prosper at SKT. Seriously though, all my protoss favorites (except Classic) are out, had to kill each other or will have to kill each other in the wildcard bracket
Never forget Dream vs Scarlett in ATC. God what a game that was
On December 11 2014 23:00 Yakikorosu wrote: List of some of the more notable people who participated and did NOT qualify:
Stork MMA soO Bomber First YoDa jjakji MC Creator (apparently forfeited his matches) DRG HyuN Symbol sOs Rain Liquid Hero TRUE Trap Zest
Of all the Koreans "returning" to Korea after competing in WCS AM and EU in 2014, the only ones who made it into SSL are San and Patience. Edit: and TaeJa, forgot him.
Of course there's always still WCS...
Shame no soO/Bomber/Zest/sOs/Rain, but that's the nature of bracket qualifiers...
Also it's interesting to note players who did not even participate, like:
Mvp (retirement probably confirmed) ByuN (hopes of comeback likely dashed)
I hope Mvp has taken a break to go through surgery in anticipation of LotV. A retirement seems more likely at this point, though.
I really wish they did away with this shitty challenger league format, it's a total crapshhot with the draw. At least with gsl group stages (thank god code a started doing them) you get the comfort of double elimination so that if you get an awful first opponent you can still make it through. Also players who deserve to make it far get shafted because oof a single best of 5 instead of being put in a group of death.
Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
Rain has been top 3 Protoss since 2012 (Remember his almost double GSL/OSL simultaneous royal road runs in 2012, winning OSL and only just losing to Mvp 3-2 in the semifinals of GSL). Just lacks the tournament wins - and like you said, SC2 is just volatile in general. Not to mention Rain forfeiting his Code S spot to attend MLG way back when, and giving up the spot he won in Hot6ix Cup this year (through the qualifiers and group stage, no less).
Therefore I think in post-2012 SC2 era the most dominant/best players should be the ones who are able to maintain being the best/one of the best of their races, and not as much the ones who get tournament wins.
I.E. Rain, Maru, soO, Soulkey...
Random upsets are just the nature of SC2. The best players, like the ones I listed, are those who accept that reality, and maintain dominant form most of the time in spite of random inevitable upsets.
On December 11 2014 23:00 Yakikorosu wrote: List of some of the more notable people who participated and did NOT qualify:
Stork MMA soO Bomber First YoDa jjakji MC Creator (apparently forfeited his matches) DRG HyuN Symbol sOs Rain Liquid Hero TRUE Trap Zest
Of all the Koreans "returning" to Korea after competing in WCS AM and EU in 2014, the only ones who made it into SSL are San and Patience. Edit: and TaeJa, forgot him.
Of course there's always still WCS...
Shame no soO/Bomber/Zest/sOs/Rain, but that's the nature of bracket qualifiers...
Also it's interesting to note players who did not even participate, like:
Mvp (retirement probably confirmed) ByuN (hopes of comeback likely dashed)
I hope Mvp has taken a break to go through surgery in anticipation of LotV. A retirement seems more likely at this point, though.
never doubt mvp. he is just focusing on practice to make sure nobody can beat him in the GSL.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
Rain has been top 3 Protoss since 2012 (Remember his almost double GSL/OSL simultaneous royal road runs in 2012, winning OSL and only just losing to Mvp 3-2 in the semifinals of GSL). Just lacks the tournament wins - and like you said, SC2 is just volatile in general. Not to mention Rain forfeiting his Code S spot to attend MLG way back when, and giving up the spot he won in Hot6ix Cup this year (through the qualifiers and group stage, no less).
Therefore I think in post-2012 SC2 era the most dominant/best players should be the ones who are able to maintain being the best/one of the best of their races, and not as much the ones who get tournament wins.
I.E. Rain, Maru, soO, Soulkey...
Random upsets are just the nature of SC2. The best players, like the ones I listed, are those who accept that reality, and maintain dominant form most of the time in spite of random inevitable upsets.
I think 2 years is an important cutoff. The list of players who have been "dominant" (as in, say, one of the best 10-15 players in the world) for 2 years or more in SC2 is pretty miniscule. I can think of:
Mvp (from early 2011 until mid-2013) Rain (from late 2012 through now) PartinG (from early 2012 through now) Life (from late 2012 through now) TaeJa (from early 2012 through now)
Not really sure who else. I don't think you can put MMA in this category--he had one period of dominance in late 2011/early 2012 and then had a long off period before a resurgence.. Soulkey was amazing in 2013 but not before or after. soO only started being a top player in late 2013 and may (or may not) be falling off now. HerO has been in a (relative) slump since mid-2013. Probably INnoVation is the closest other player, he was already a top player by the end of WoL, but the obvious big slump in individual leagues while on Acer weighs against him. MC and Polt have been consistently very strong players their whole career but they haven't been consistently dominant. Bomber's been around forever but I think 2014 is the first year in which I would call him "dominant."
Edit: Maru will probably join this list soon but he only broke out as a top player in mid-2013 when he won his OSL, so it hasn't been 2 years yet. Edit 2: sOs is even closer, I'd say he'll be at 2 years come spring.
I'm probably forgetting SOMEONE but I doubt very many. And please don't say Flash.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
Rain has been top 3 Protoss since 2012 (Remember his almost double GSL/OSL simultaneous royal road runs in 2012, winning OSL and only just losing to Mvp 3-2 in the semifinals of GSL). Just lacks the tournament wins - and like you said, SC2 is just volatile in general. Not to mention Rain forfeiting his Code S spot to attend MLG way back when, and giving up the spot he won in Hot6ix Cup this year (through the qualifiers and group stage, no less).
Therefore I think in post-2012 SC2 era the most dominant/best players should be the ones who are able to maintain being the best/one of the best of their races, and not as much the ones who get tournament wins.
I.E. Rain, Maru, soO, Soulkey...
Random upsets are just the nature of SC2. The best players, like the ones I listed, are those who accept that reality, and maintain dominant form most of the time in spite of random inevitable upsets.
I think 2 years is an important cutoff. The list of players who have been "dominant" (as in, say, one of the best 10-15 players in the world) for 2 years or more in SC2 is pretty miniscule. I can think of:
Mvp (from early 2011 until mid-2013) Rain (from late 2012 through now) PartinG (from early 2012 through now) Life (from late 2012 through now) TaeJa (from early 2012 through now)
Not really sure who else. I don't think you can put MMA in this category--he had one period of dominance in late 2011/early 2012 and then had a long off period before a resurgence.. Soulkey was amazing in 2013 but not before or after. soO only started being a top player in late 2013 and may (or may not) be falling off now. HerO has been in a (relative) slump since mid-2013. Probably INnoVation is the closest other player, he was already a top player by the end of WoL, but the obvious big slump in individual leagues while on Acer weighs against him. MC and Polt have been a consistently very strong player his whole career but they haven't been consistently dominant. Bomber's been around forever but I think 2014 is the first year in which I would call him "dominant."
I'm probably forgetting SOMEONE but I doubt very many. And please don't say Flash.
Life wasn't dominant all the time. he was strong in 2012 + the first few months of 2013 and now he has started dominating again but between these periods he wasn't very strong.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
Rain has been top 3 Protoss since 2012 (Remember his almost double GSL/OSL simultaneous royal road runs in 2012, winning OSL and only just losing to Mvp 3-2 in the semifinals of GSL). Just lacks the tournament wins - and like you said, SC2 is just volatile in general. Not to mention Rain forfeiting his Code S spot to attend MLG way back when, and giving up the spot he won in Hot6ix Cup this year (through the qualifiers and group stage, no less).
Therefore I think in post-2012 SC2 era the most dominant/best players should be the ones who are able to maintain being the best/one of the best of their races, and not as much the ones who get tournament wins.
I.E. Rain, Maru, soO, Soulkey...
Random upsets are just the nature of SC2. The best players, like the ones I listed, are those who accept that reality, and maintain dominant form most of the time in spite of random inevitable upsets.
I think 2 years is an important cutoff. The list of players who have been "dominant" (as in, say, one of the best 10-15 players in the world) for 2 years or more in SC2 is pretty miniscule. I can think of:
Mvp (from early 2011 until mid-2013) Rain (from late 2012 through now) PartinG (from early 2012 through now) Life (from late 2012 through now) TaeJa (from early 2012 through now)
Not really sure who else. I don't think you can put MMA in this category--he had one period of dominance in late 2011/early 2012 and then had a long off period before a resurgence.. Soulkey was amazing in 2013 but not before or after. soO only started being a top player in late 2013 and may (or may not) be falling off now. HerO has been in a (relative) slump since mid-2013. Probably INnoVation is the closest other player, he was already a top player by the end of WoL, but the obvious big slump in individual leagues while on Acer weighs against him. MC and Polt have been consistently very strong players their whole career but they haven't been consistently dominant. Bomber's been around forever but I think 2014 is the first year in which I would call him "dominant."
Edit: Maru will probably join this list soon but he only broke out as a top player in mid-2013 when he won his OSL, so it hasn't been 2 years yet.
I'm probably forgetting SOMEONE but I doubt very many. And please don't say Flash.
Life had a pretty big slump in the middle of 2013 and end of 2013. Mvp dropped off earlier than mid 2013. I'd include MKP (late 2010 - late 2012) and maybe Innovation
I agree Life and INno can go either way. I gave life credit for late 2013 because even then he won IEM NY, and because mid-late 2013 was a horrible meta for Zerg. In INno's slump he wasn't doing anything of note in individual leagues at all.
MC... I don't know. Too inconsistent for me. He was certainly dominant from late 2010 through the first few months of 2011 but he was also the first ever GSL champion to fall out of Code A (that's right, before FruitDealer did) and mostly stayed in the map from mid-2011 to mid-2012 through foreign events back when it was mostly foreigners playing in those tournaments.
MKP is a little like MMA but at different times; he was certainly dominant late 2010 through early 2011 but then kind of fell off until he had a big resurgence in 2012. I can see an argument for MKP though.
Edit: I can't agree that Mvp dropped off earlier than mid-2013. He finished top 4 in WCS 2013 S1 finals, which was in June 2013, and was the closest anyone came in that tournament to beating INno. He did fall off very rapidly after that though.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
Rain has been top 3 Protoss since 2012 (Remember his almost double GSL/OSL simultaneous royal road runs in 2012, winning OSL and only just losing to Mvp 3-2 in the semifinals of GSL). Just lacks the tournament wins - and like you said, SC2 is just volatile in general. Not to mention Rain forfeiting his Code S spot to attend MLG way back when, and giving up the spot he won in Hot6ix Cup this year (through the qualifiers and group stage, no less).
Therefore I think in post-2012 SC2 era the most dominant/best players should be the ones who are able to maintain being the best/one of the best of their races, and not as much the ones who get tournament wins.
I.E. Rain, Maru, soO, Soulkey...
Random upsets are just the nature of SC2. The best players, like the ones I listed, are those who accept that reality, and maintain dominant form most of the time in spite of random inevitable upsets.
I think 2 years is an important cutoff. The list of players who have been "dominant" (as in, say, one of the best 10-15 players in the world) for 2 years or more in SC2 is pretty miniscule. I can think of:
Mvp (from early 2011 until mid-2013) Rain (from late 2012 through now) PartinG (from early 2012 through now) Life (from late 2012 through now) TaeJa (from early 2012 through now)
Not really sure who else. I don't think you can put MMA in this category--he had one period of dominance in late 2011/early 2012 and then had a long off period before a resurgence.. Soulkey was amazing in 2013 but not before or after. soO only started being a top player in late 2013 and may (or may not) be falling off now. HerO has been in a (relative) slump since mid-2013. Probably INnoVation is the closest other player, he was already a top player by the end of WoL, but the obvious big slump in individual leagues while on Acer weighs against him. MC and Polt have been consistently very strong players their whole career but they haven't been consistently dominant. Bomber's been around forever but I think 2014 is the first year in which I would call him "dominant."
Edit: Maru will probably join this list soon but he only broke out as a top player in mid-2013 when he won his OSL, so it hasn't been 2 years yet.
I'm probably forgetting SOMEONE but I doubt very many. And please don't say Flash.
Life had a pretty big slump in the middle of 2013 and end of 2013. Mvp dropped off earlier than mid 2013. I'd include MKP (late 2010 - late 2012) and maybe Innovation
Life wasn't really slumping in late 2013. He got to the semifinals of DH:Bucharest, won IEM NY, got second at DH:Winter, and lost in the semifinals of ASUS NorthCon.
Also, in the period immediately preceding mid 2013 Mvp won WCS EU and barely lost the semifinals to INnoVation at the Season 1 Finals. Not too shabby.
Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Rly wish they would do groups though, there will be so many deserving players leaving this tournament early...
Strange and surprising that Zest didn't qualify. Good thing there are plenty of Terrans to cheer for, including Flash and TY. This is going to be great.
On December 12 2014 02:48 jubil wrote: Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Her vT practice partner lost a TvZ to TerrorPrime last night.
On December 12 2014 01:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: Still shocked MMA, Bomber, Rain, SoO, Zest didnt make it. MMA was just the blizzcon finalist, Bomber #1 in WCS points, Zest the best player of the year, SoO 4 times in a row gsl finalist, and Rain just finished second at IEM.
SC2 does not have that kind of consistency. While Zest and soO are somewhat surprising, I wouldn't say any of them had the level of dominance that Mvp in his prime did, and certainly not the level of dominance of Flash in BW.
There's a massive difference in the level of competition as well. MVP was head and shoulders above the rest in a relatively new game. He was, skillwise, better than a lot of them. Nowadays however, the competition is much more fierce than it ever was.
On December 12 2014 02:48 jubil wrote: Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Rly wish they would do groups though, there will be so many deserving players leaving this tournament early...
Buddy, you misunderstand Maru.
Maru hasn't been slumping. Maru hasn't been placed in any preparation based matches for a long, long time. It's well known that Maru is pretty bad in qualifiers or weekend tournaments. He never performs well there, even in his peak. If anything ,the fact he got through a tough qualifier is very, very worrysome to everybody in the bracket.
On December 12 2014 02:48 jubil wrote: Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Rly wish they would do groups though, there will be so many deserving players leaving this tournament early...
Buddy, you misunderstand Maru.
Maru hasn't been slumping. Maru hasn't been placed in any preparation based matches for a long, long time. It's well known that Maru is pretty bad in qualifiers or weekend tournaments. He never performs well there, even in his peak. If anything ,the fact he got through a tough qualifier is very, very worrysome to everybody in the bracket.
I always thought it's less that Maru is "bad" at weekend tournaments and more that he just doesn't play in weekend tournaments. He's just one of the few top Koreans left who never attends international events and Korea has weekend tournaments very rarely. Sure he's missed out on some qualifiers but so has everyone--bracket qualifiers stacked with Koreans are very hard to predict, as these qualifiers have amply illustrated.
On December 12 2014 02:48 jubil wrote: Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Rly wish they would do groups though, there will be so many deserving players leaving this tournament early...
Buddy, you misunderstand Maru.
Maru hasn't been slumping. Maru hasn't been placed in any preparation based matches for a long, long time. It's well known that Maru is pretty bad in qualifiers or weekend tournaments. He never performs well there, even in his peak. If anything ,the fact he got through a tough qualifier is very, very worrysome to everybody in the bracket.
If you're going to tell me that Maru has been as good as he ever has been over the last few months I'm going to up and remove your flair because it's having a bad influence on your mind D:
This "2 Korean tournaments" thing is great. I'm used to seeing the results of qualifiers like this and feeling a mix of hype for the winners and sadness that various players I wanted to see lost and now I won't see them much for months unless they play in SPL and now they've got a whole other (larger) tournament to qualify for. GJ blizzard.
On December 12 2014 02:48 jubil wrote: Wow poor Jim, gets the Asia seed, hype for more non-Koreans in Korean leagues....then gets Maru as a first round opponent. Well, on second thought Maru has seemed to be slumping so maybe Jim can take him out. Scarlett got a nice opponent tho, and she said she already knows who her vT practice partner will be!
Rly wish they would do groups though, there will be so many deserving players leaving this tournament early...
Buddy, you misunderstand Maru.
Maru hasn't been slumping. Maru hasn't been placed in any preparation based matches for a long, long time. It's well known that Maru is pretty bad in qualifiers or weekend tournaments. He never performs well there, even in his peak. If anything ,the fact he got through a tough qualifier is very, very worrysome to everybody in the bracket.
If you're going to tell me that Maru has been as good as he ever has been over the last few months I'm going to up and remove your flair because it's having a bad influence on your mind D:
I said he's even better now than he's been in the past months.
Maru is going to win something before march. You can give my flair a golden lining if I'm right.
Some of these brackets are designed terribly. For example, Aphrodite got BYE'd all the way into winners semis, allowing a placement into the loser's bracket if she were to lose. In the same bracket, Stork and MMA lost in the winners quarters which straight-up eliminated them.
I'd be pretty upset if I had a big resume and I got put against ridiculous competition and only had a single bo3 to qualify wherein lesser players got BYE'd into double elimination.
On December 12 2014 08:30 Magnet wrote: Some of these brackets are designed terribly. For example, Aphrodite got BYE'd all the way into winners semis, allowing a placement into the loser's bracket if she were to lose. In the same bracket, Stork and MMA lost in the winners quarters which straight-up eliminated them.
I'd be pretty upset if I had a big resume and I got put against ridiculous competition and only had a single bo3 to qualify wherein lesser players got BYE'd into double elimination.
All qualifiers are loaded with Byes in the early rounds, and not everyone gets the same number of byes. It's all random and depends on how many people enter the qualifier and how many people forfeit in the first round (for example Aphrodite had a second bye because the player she would have played had a bye himself but apparently forfeited. Nothing new about any of it.
I still remember the non-pro player GGanDoL who got all the way into Code A in early 2012 by winning a single Bo3 because he got a bye in every round until the qualifier finals.
On December 12 2014 07:46 sharkie wrote: herO is probably the only protoss in the world that could beat bbyong in a bo5 and even then I think bbyong will take the series
Wat
Rain could...and did wreck Bbyong, during Proleague. (To be fair, Bbyong went mech; although Rain gets points for going Carriers in response).
I think Rain, Zest, sOs, herO, and possibly Dear and HerO (both depend on form but have shown the necessary potential) could pretty convincingly beat Bbyong in a bo5.
And I'm a Bbyong fan.
(P.S. And maybe Yongwha? Half joking, but seriously, based on his SSL performance...who knows)
On December 12 2014 10:25 JJH777 wrote: Wow no soo and zest really sucks.
i guess they shouldnt have lost in qualifiers where marineking made it trough xDD
I guess they should've bribed the admins into putting them in his bracket then? Obviously judging a player's failure in a tough bracket based off a much easier one is completely justified
On December 12 2014 08:42 Darkhorse wrote: HOLY FUCKING LIFE VS FLASH AND SCARLETT VS TY
also Skyhigh vs Gumiho could be a really wonky exciting TvT so get hyped.
I'm stupefied that it took 11 pages for someone to start hyping SkyHigh vs Gumiho. If I had to bet on one series producing quality games, it would be that, even over Flash vs Life.
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
Guitars said it's a troll because the format is actually a best of 5 here.
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
Guitars said it's a troll because the format is actually a best of 5 here.
Guitars has payed attention to his posts in the past. Also, anyone who says Scarlett's gonna take 2 games off TY is clearly trolling
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
Guitars said it's a troll because the format is actually a best of 5 here.
Oh yes. Silly me (us). Well no matter, I don't think that's reason to think he was trolling. Clearly it was just a slight oversight.
And Scarlett 2-0 over TY isn't the most preposterous thing out there. Scarlett has the potential to be really great against Terran. While TY seemed to do pretty well in the qualifier, he hasn't been doing so great in GSL. You gotta have some foreigner optimism, SGTK...
So, since it's obviously a Bo5 (not a Bo3!!), I predict either a 3-2 Scarlett or a 3-0 TY. One of those two. ^_^
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
Guitars said it's a troll because the format is actually a best of 5 here.
Oh yes. Silly me (us). Well no matter, I don't think that's reason to think he was trolling. Clearly it was just a slight oversight.
And Scarlett 2-0 over TY isn't the most preposterous thing out there. Scarlett has the potential to be really great against Terran. While TY seemed to do pretty well in the qualifier, he hasn't been doing so great in GSL. You gotta have some foreigner optimism, SGTK...
So, since it's obviously a Bo5 (not a Bo3!!), I predict either a 3-2 Scarlett or a 3-0 TY. One of those two. ^_^
I have faith in foreigners only when they're playing against other foreigners. And only in Scarlett when she's facing a mid-tier foreigner. Even that today was a mistake
On December 12 2014 14:16 Larkin wrote: Wow this looks so good already, interesting about the Wildcards, wouldn't have picked Yong or DRG to get to the finals...
Or Zest to lose to Symbol's ZvP...how the hell did that happen
You're losing your touch dude, you're just not as subtle as you used to be.
Unless that's the troll itself, in which case GG you got me
I don't know what you are talking about. I think these are pretty reasonable and realistic predictions.
I agree with a lot of his predictions, actually. The one I have the hardest time with is the Scarlett vs TY. At best (for Scarlett), I think it'll be a 2-1 series. While TY isn't quite as good as he was, he's still definitely a top 10 Terran. Is Scarlett a top 10 Zerg? Ehh, no, but she does have the foreigner advantage here. TY might underestimate her! And I think she'll be practicing pretty hard!
Guitars said it's a troll because the format is actually a best of 5 here.
Oh...sorry ^^; my bad. I guess add 1 to each number and leave the zeros as is.
On December 12 2014 14:16 Larkin wrote: Wow this looks so good already, interesting about the Wildcards, wouldn't have picked Yong or DRG to get to the finals...
Or Zest to lose to Symbol's ZvP...how the hell did that happen
On December 12 2014 14:16 Larkin wrote: Wow this looks so good already, interesting about the Wildcards, wouldn't have picked Yong or DRG to get to the finals...
Or Zest to lose to Symbol's ZvP...how the hell did that happen
I feel like making obligatory predictions because yeah.
Rogue 1-3 Soulkey: Soulkey's coming back baby. Classic 2-3 Cure: I expect Classic to look decent but still crumble. Terminator 0-3 TaeJa: Yeah, you got fucked terminator Solar 3-2 Dream: I fucking hate this format I want this as the goddamn finals Life 3-1 Flash: Flash gonna get outplayed ezpz. Scarlett 3-2 TY: Gotta have faith, Scarlett's a miracle worker she can do it. sKyHigh 3-1 GuMiho: holy shit tho. Stats 0-3 INnoVation: So straightforward Patience 1-3 Dear: Dear's coming back baby. Maru 1-3 Jim: Probably my craziest prediction, but I think Jim will just completely upset Maru. Dark 2:3 PartinG: I think Dark will give his ex-teammate a tough fight. MyuNgSiK 1-3 San: PvP is fucking wild. Super 3-0 ByuL: I actually have no clue whatsoever herO 3-1 Bbyong: Again, hate this format. CJ Teamkill forever YongHwa 1-3 Leenock: This can go either way honestly FanTaSy 3-2 MarineKing: Fucking. Lol. Have fun watching this for 10 hours ahahaha.
EPT
Scarlett, 
Jim and 
Bbyong
Whoever wins I will be just sad
And be happy about TerrOr almost making it, he wasn't showing anything in past in offline performances, maybe this is about to change! ^^
