On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work. I have more experience and standing so my opinion is worth more. That's how it works in all walks of life.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
Not IGN. Because of obvious reasons.
But seriously TB is an owner of the one of the most popular teams in SC at the moment, his opinion is probably only one or two steps down from Mike Morihame
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
I think TB can be narcissistic from time to time and I don't always agree with his opinions. However in this case that is how the world works whether you like or agree with it or not. He does have experience in this realm (running a team) so his opinions based on experience hold more water than the opinion of a random guy. Your boss who has run the company for 20 years opinion matters more than yours. The doctor's opinions on medicine hold more weight than yours. Those opinions matter simply because of experience, they don't just talk the talk they've lived it.
But how is a little guy with some good ideas get his voice heard?! He does by explaining in detail his ideas and why he thinks they're a better way to do things. If you just blurt out an opinion without explaining the thought process behind it no one with more experience is going to listen, end of story. That is the way of the world.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
It's not nice seeing TB say that but he is speaking the truth here. It's how the world should work. But often, it doesn't. This thread is actually turning out rather ugly.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
Calling him a child (which is untrue from the information I have) and judging him by his post count doesn't win you anything in this debate. It just makes you look bad.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
Wow I thought we were having an actual discussion. Then you decided, "Hmm nope I don't wanna do this anymore. Let's call him a child and make fun of him because he has a lot of posts which I have used to justify the conclusion that he is a shut in"
Also lynching/witch hunt are pretty close (witch is how you spell it in that instance by the way). Your second paragraph makes no sense. I didn't twist words, but I'm glad you are confident in your own abilities in determining when words are being twisted! You also seem to be one of those people who think putting after your arguments makes them better.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease. It would be like the difference between TB's thing that he said in anger years ago and well...if someone said to TB now....I won't finish that
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease. It would be like the difference between TB's thing that he said in anger years ago and well...if someone said to TB now....I won't finish that
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
OK so I retract what I said about my coeliac and crohne's, doesn't effect the rest of the things I said, which was my original point.
If you are dying or not - sounds like the guy was just pissy, and now the community is lynching him. Seen it a few times in this community - as with politics when a guy says binder full of women, etc.
He had part if his intestine removed.....the struggle is fucking real. He had four huge abscesses in his intestine. You can die from that. Crohnes can fucking kill you and I don't know why people think otherwise.
Pro-tip for life when you are a professional at anything. Don't stay jerky things about really sick people, even if you truly feel they might taking advantage of their sickness(I do not think mingun did that, but clearly Ruff did). And if you can't control yourself and must say them, don't say them out loud, on video where people can replay them over and over.
You are entitled to your opinion, but don't expect your job to back you up and protect your ability to say your opinion on video. Thats not really a thing jobs do.
What's even worse than Ruff's comments are the people SUPPORTING him. "He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that." Are you... serious? How can you even bring yourself to write that? How can you sit there and type that out and press "post" without thinking to yourself "holy fuck I'm an asshole, I need to close the browser right now and forget I ever wrote that." How the fuck do you sleep at night. I mean he didn't even ask for shit, the fundraiser WASN'T HIS IDEA! Some kind heart from the community saw that he needed help and decided to start the fundraiser. God damnit, people make me sick sometimes.
At least Ruff had the sense to apologize and admit that he made his comment while in a fit of rage and didn't think about what he was saying. You're sitting on teamliquid reading a thread with all the time in the world to think about what you want to say, and THAT is what you come up with? I can only hope that you just created that account for the sole purpose of starting drama and that you don't really believe what you said to be true.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease.
Bullshit. Both are equally terrible but with the first one you can hide behind the "sorry didn't know" excuse when you wish cancer on someone who suffered from it without you knowing it.
You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
I don't even find this argument surprisingly anymore, if anything it's just boring. I used to be in college once and thought that everyones opinion was of equal value. Then I got a job, turns out nope, it's not. If anything the internet only serves to make it obvious that opinions are so numerous that they individually hold very little value.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
A few years ago, sure, but since then their standing has fallen and their "experience" is watered down by a bunch of talented people leaving the industry. It'd be hard to say now that Sessler has left for instance that Rev3 has more standing and experience than I do, but while he was there, I'd have said absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt that his opinion trumps mine when it comes to industry matters.
I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him. That screen shot doesn't show the context of their relationship.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
EPT
