No, you aren't dreaming. No, this isn't a delayed April fool's joke. We actually took the time to make a Power Rank this week. After an absence since the start of 2014, we've decided that this is as good a time as any to dust off this most controversial of article styles. You might end up disagreeing with us, hating us, or dismissing our objectivity, but everyone loves seemingly arbitrary lists, right?
While Bucharest champion Life has chosen not to defend his title, this DreamHack features 8 former champions in MaNa, MC, ThorZain, StarDust, HuK, HerO, Taeja and Hyun. It's as strong a lineup as we've ever had, despite the non-participation of Kespa. DreamHack Summer also sees the debut of Scarlett, who looks set to participate in more international tournaments as the year progresses. The best placing returning player from Bucharest also happens to be Jaedong, who will hope to dispel calls of his imminent decline. But enough about that, it's time to start the list.
Note: Yes, we know you're all still clamoring for a SC2-wide Power Rank. Think of this as a dry run. No promises, though.
What is the Power Rank?
"Who would you bet on in a best of 101 with your mortgage and 401k on the line?" Yeah we thought that might be a good thought experiment. "Who has looked the most impressive in the past X months," also crossed our minds. There are many different factors that enter our discussions (and yes, we do thoroughly discuss this) when we try to answer the question: "Who's better?" and we couldn't list down all of them if we tried. If it were up to lichter though, he'd probably just vote for who he finds more entertaining. However, thanks to our spreadsheet heavy, completely democratic, and reasonably systematic process that involves a lot of name calling and secret google doc editing, we're pretty confident someone will agree with us on this. Hopefully.
A few notes on the rankings:
The Power Rank only takes players competing at DreamHack: Summer 2014 into account.
The PR is not a ranking of everyone's chances to win this tournament. There's a lot of bracket luck involved, as well as a considerable advantage given to players who start with seeds, and doing a final ranking prediction would be pretty damn complicated. The Power Rank is just our all-around answer to the question "who's better?"
Power Rank does not suggest that a higher ranked player is better than a lower ranked player in a head to head. Rankings are based on the overall appraisal of a player.
It is possible that some players may be absent or cancel their attendance between the release of this article and the start of the tournament.
The power rank is a compromise between the opinions of several writers, ensuring that not even the writers are happy with the end result.
TeamLiquid is not responsible for rage or rage related injuries suffered as a result of reading the Power Rank.
Sorry guys, but according to Liquipedia, you guys aren't notable participants. Whether that was an oversight or the Liquipedia staff are trying to manipulate the PR, we don't know, but at least you know this isn't our fault.
Wait, ThorZaIN still plays SC2? This return to DreamHack marks his first tournament since November 2013, so we have no idea how he'll do. However, he's a former champ, so he gets a special mention.
If we went with the X>Y>Z method of ranking players, White-Ra would be at #29 ahead of DeMusliM. Honestly, we're hoping GranpaToss gets knocked out early and just starts hanging out in the analysts' booth.
PiG is one of the best talents Australia has to offer, and he recently moved to Europe to compete in this year's tournament cycle. Within his blogs on TL, PiG has made it very clear how much he values the mental side of competition, but he's yet to translate that into tournament success.
After finding himself in WCS EU Premier League for the first two season of 2013, SortOf has found it difficult to come back to the top. His tournament appearances have been few, but he did impress at Assembly Winter 2014 by defeating Taeja in the group stages.
Being a regular in WCS EU Challenger League, ShoWTimE comes in to Dreamhack as a player who has a lot to prove. With a relatively good series against First in this season's Challenger League and a near-miss during HSC 9 qualifiers, ShoWTiMe squeaks into the PR. As a regular online-cup player it will be interesting to see what ShoWTimE can bring once the bright lights are on him.
While Zanster hasn't been too hot in ATC and has not featured in this WCS season at all, his performance at Dreamhack Bucharest was admirable, beating TLO, First and Patience before meeting his end against Jaedong. He's showed promise before but he'll need to show more than a Ro16 finish at one Dreamhack to climb the list.
We wish we had more to say about Serral, but unfortunately... we got nothing. He did almost beat Taeja in Assembly Winter 2014, and he's been a serviceable roster player for mYi in ATC3, but that's all we know. At least we don't have jokes at his expense, right?
In DeMusliM's last two tournaments, he's been knocked out by semi-retired players White-Ra and Nerchio. That's not a very nice thing to be known for, and despite always seeming on the brink of a breakthrough, we're still waiting for that moment Demu shows us he's more than just a pretty face.
In the tradition of French Zergs, drama seems naturally attracted to FireCake. Whether its his infamous potty mouth or his fake matchfixing scandal, the curly haired Frenchman knows how to get our attention. He has maintained his Premier League status for three straight seasons, though, so he is actually pretty good. Let's just hope he doesn't decide to use swarmhosts when he's on the main stage.
Tefel beat VortiX 2-1 to open WCS EU Ro32 this season, but things went downhill from there with losses to MaNa and VortiX in a rematch. He's been bouncing out and back in Premier League since last year, but at least he's no longer the worst player on earht.
Looking at Socke's list of results, you quickly spot that 2014 is about as bare as a list of foreigners winning Premier tournaments. He did place third at TakeTV Ultra ahead of players like YoDa, MC, First, and Patience, but he was quickly disposed of in HSC 9. With a much stronger lineup at DH, Socke's going to have a hard time topping his best achievement of the year so far.
As a player that regularly qualifies for WCS Europe, uThermal is another player that's good but not good enough. Relying very little on cheeses or alternative styles of play, uThermal plays a stock standard version of terran, good enough to beat an Mvp in decline. He's done well at smaller online tournaments such as Go4SC2 and Frag-o-matic, but he's yet to go far in major tournaments.
From popular streamer to burgeoning caster, Balloon captured many a fan's heart because of his enthusiastic English at HSC 9. But it wasn't just his personality that surprised; he also beat both ToD and Bomber at the first group stage. Though he went on to lose to MMA and Taeja in the next round, it was a decent performance for his first offline tournament since WCS KR Challenger League Season 2 2013. He hasn't quite performed for mYi in ATC3, but as the only random player making waves in major events, it's hard not to cheer for the friendly Korean.
MaNa is one of the most solid Protoss players in Europe and is a previous Dreamhack Summer Champion. So why is MaNa all the way down at #23? Well he hasn't made a serious impact on WCS EU over the first five seasons of the league, and he was just knocked out of this season's Ro16 by First and Golden. Combine that with a poor performance at Dreamhack Bucharest (he failed to make top 32) and a so-so showing at HSC 9, and it is easy to see why we're being cautious with MaNa this time around.
Despite being a consistent Premier League player, it's difficult to rank HuK any higher. He's actually played well over the past few months, despite failing to make it past the group stages in both season of WCS AM so far. Perhaps it's his fairly outdated reputation of being predictably fond of gateways and the units they produce, but he needs a strong performance at his first international tournament of 2014 to change our minds. We should probably give sympathy points for proxying nexii in avilo's base though.
Oh TLO. There are weeks when we feel like you're becoming one of the best foreigners in the world, able to compete with anyone, but then you go through these troughs that make us doubt you once again. 2014 has actually been a good year for our favorite German, with a 3rd at IEM Sao Paulo, a 3rd at SeatStory Cup, and a 4th at TakeTV Ultra, but he's also had many disappointing finishes. He's yet to replicate his 5th place from WCS EU Season 1 2013, with a single Ro16 since then. He has maintained his Premier League status without trouble, but it's going to take more than consistency to see him climb the ladder. TLO finished last in his HSC 9 2nd Group Stage, though it was one of the harder groups. TLO could easily finish in the teens this weekend, but it's tough to tell when he's going hot.
When Patience joined Alien Invasion and came into the European scene, he seemed destined to become StarDust-esque in that he would be a contender in Dreamhack, Assembly, and WCS EU. His surprise third place at least year's Dreamhack Winter, where he beat sOs, Polt, MMA, and Innovation in rapid succession was the high point of his career, but he has unfortunately been unable to replicate it. He managed top 8 finishes at IEM Cologne and ASUS ROG Winter, but since then he has done little of note. His last place finish in his Ro32 group of WCS EU (featuring losses to both Grubby and Vortix) didn't inspire much confidence, which leaves Patience barely holding on to top 20 in our power rank.
Is Bunny the best foreign terran? Is it Dayshi? Does being a foreign terran prodigy mean anything these days? All these questions aside, Bunny's performances for TeamLiquid in ATC and WCS has been worthy of praise. He's maintained his Premier League status for 4 out of 5 seasons so far, and he had a record of 11-5 in ATC while claiming an all kill of coL-Dignitas. His TvT is still a liability, but fortunately there aren't a lot of foreign terrans to contend with.
Dayshi comes into this tournament hot after his semi final finish at Home Story Cup. As a consistent WCS Europe performer, Dayshi has yet to prove himself as a title contender. He consistently beats foreigner opponents but has had trouble against Korean competition, though he did beat Armani and Bomber to scale the HSC 9 brackets. So what is Dayshi's reward for being the best foreign terran at Dreamhack? More than likely getting knocked out at the group stages.
Considering Golden's recent success in WCS, qualifying for the Ro8, he may have a shot at going somewhere in this tournament. Looking at his recent games and results, it's fairly clear that Golden has had a tough time competing against his fellow countrymen and that his success usually lies in beating foreign players. That should be good enough to get him to Group Stage 3, but he'll have to rely on the luck of the draw to have a good chance of making it further.
No-one expected YoDa to win the very first HotS premier tournament at the IEM Season 7 Word Championship but he did it anyway. When he beat his teammate Mvp in the semi-finals many saw it as a passing of the torch going into the new unexplored game. It's been more than a year since then, and YoDa has lost whatever Championship credentials he earned in that tournament. Once a fringe Code-S player on IM, YoDa is now teamless and his best achievement since moving to Europe is a ro16 finish in WCS EU. Coming into this Dreamhack, YoDa will hope to vindicate his decision to move to a new continent and reclaim that champion's luster that he lost long ago.
HerO, you're supposed to be at least ten times higher! Sadly even for the most biased of us writers (yes, Olli wrote this), it's hard to smuggle HerO any higher up this list. His recent results tell the story: HerO's in rough shape. Even the only game he won and looked good in recently, against Salvation, was not entirely his own doing. But as this is a Dreamhack and HerO is HerO, here's the usual, always relevant spiel: If HerO brings his a-game he can win this and a lot of other tournaments without dropping a map. The odds are heavily stacked against him in his current form, no doubt about it. Count him out however and he WILL win the damn thing.
"They will mock him, spit on him, flog him with a whip and kill him, but after three days he will rise again." The Dong will rise again and he will eventually dominate the StarCraft 2 scene... but perhaps not this tournament. This being Jaedong's 7th Dreamhack in a row, one can only wonder when he'll finally win one. Given Jaedong's fairly disappointing results recently, losing to both Heart and Jim in WCS AM, it's hard to see him do well here. He did win LSC back in May and he did go 2-3 against Taeja at HSC 9 in the quarter finals, but if he were to even have a shot at winning this tournament he will need to give it all he's got.
Oh jjakji what happened to you? When you came to Europe you were supposed to be a sort of neo-MMA: a threat in every tournament you entered. Instead you have turned into more of a ForGG: always a contender but never a champion. Sure, jjakji's results haven't been bad since making the switch to WCS EU and moving there from Korea, but they haven't been overly impressive either. He has achieved an 18-8 record in ATC this season, a very impressive record if your name isn't Innovation, but in live events he has had some struggles. At Dreamhack Bucharest, he just barely made top 16 before being knocked out by his teammate StarDust. His top 4 performance in Season 1 of WCS EU looked like a performance he could build upon, but this season proved to be disastrous as he fell out of his Ro32 group in last place. Being kept out of the top 8 at HSC IX can be excused because apparently jjakji was under the weather, but we are still looking for a breakout performance from jjakji. jjakji is a GSL champion, but he is going to have to put something new together in Europe if he wants to be anything but just another contender.
After leaving Incredible Miracle to compete in WCS EU, First fell off the radar entirely for a long time. The few instances he did pop up left his fans very discouraged at his level of play. But ever since settling in with MC and YoDa, First has apparently rediscovered the spark. Yes, he's far from being the powerhouse Code S protoss he used to be in mid-2013, but he's climbing towards that general direction again. Rank 11 fits him well - it credits his rising form but also considers the possibility that he may underperform and disappoint again.
After ending 2013 on a high, placing 3rd at RedBull NY and 2nd at NorthCon, Scarlett took a sabbatical to start the new year. When she returned to compete in WCS AM, she was ousted in the Ro32 by TooDming in a memorable game famous for its 360 degree roach surround. She similarly struggled in Season 2 as hendralisk took her Premier League spot, and her fans were left wondering what happened to the player that had a legitimate claim to the title of the best foreigner of 2013. Well, it looks like she's back full time as she recently promised to attend more foreign tournaments. She finished 3rd/4th in HSC 9 recently, placing ahead of powerhouses like Bomber, jjakji and Jaedong, beating Taeja, Stork, and MMA along the way. Though she failed to overcome Taeja once again in the semi-final, she acquitted herself well and now looks back in shape. This weekend is going to be her first ever DreamHack, but she's had success in weekenders before. We might be getting a little too excited about Scarlett's return to form, but we're sure she won't let her best friend The_Templar down.
The current foreign trend in StarCraft 2 seems to be Zerg as there have been many who have done well. Snute is arguably part of the top three foreign-trio of deadly Zergs and comes in at a rank 9 for this tournament. With an unfortunate defeat, placing last in his ro16 group in WCS EU, it's become clear that Snute has his off days. However on a good day, he's more than capable of plowing through players such as Welmu, Yoda, Jjakji, First and even MC, all of whom will be playing here at this Dreamhack. If this weekend consists of "Good days", Snute will for sure make it very far and perhaps be the first foreigner to win a premier tournament since December 2012.
The Great and Powerful wizard has given us far less reason to worry since finding a new sponsor in Planetkey Dynamics. Finally reappearing on the international scene, it didn't take long for Oz to impress again with a strong second place finish in last season's WCS America. A newly forged partnership also allows him to play for IM in Proleague - a team whose ultimate goal seems to be to uniting all good non-Kespa players and letting them play in Proleague. He's done well when called upon, taking out big names in Zest and Rogue with thoughtful play and impressive execution. Other than those two tournaments however we've seen little of the wizard. Having Oz back at international tournaments makes this writer very happy and if he's good enough to be sent out in Proleague along the likes of Byul, Life, Trap, HerO, Ruin and Squirtle, then challenging for a Dreamhack championship could be possible too.
Earlier in this power rank I may have referred to jjakji as a "new ForGG" in a disparaging way, but I'm sure Jjakji wishes he were playing like ForGG this WCS Season. The Millennium Terran has looked solid this time around, having reached the Ro8 in WCS for the first time since Season 1 of last year. Combine with his strong 18-10 record in Acer Teamstory Cup, and ForGG looks to be in fine shape heading into this Dreamhack Summer. ForGG grabbed silver at Dreamhack: Valencia in 2012, but surely he still feels the disappointment of that loss, as he went up 2-0 on Taeja in the best of 5 and lost three straight to lose the title. It seems that now is the perfect time for ForGG to try to claim the Dreamhack title that he missed a year and a half ago with the recent hellbat buff likely to help ForGG in all matchups. Notorious for hellbat heavy compositions even before the patch went through, expect him to be a top contender in the HPM (hellbats per minute) charts, and expect him to make a deep run in this tournament.
StarDust ends up at number 6 in our power rank. While some may be surprised to see him ranked considerably higher than his more decorated teammate Jjakji, there are several reasons for this. He had a fairly good season in Acer Teamstory Cup and finished with a 9-7 record, he has now advanced to his third straight Ro8 in WCS EU, and most importantly of all: Stardust is the defnding Dreamhack: Summer champion. Coming out of nowhere, Stardust put himself on the map with a 3-2 win over JaeDong in the finals. Past success doesn't necessarily guarantee future success, but StarDust is always a contender in these European tournaments, especially Dreamhacks. The mYi Protoss is coming off a decent top 8 showing at Dreamhack Bucharest, and odds are we'll see him in the top 8 bracket once again. It's just a question of whether or not we will see him advance any further and defend his title.
At #5 we find Acer's MMA whose last tournament victory took place in October last year. That's quite surprising considering MMA's status as a serious championship contender in almost any tournament he enters (of which there are a lot). Recent results however have shown that MMA has his weaknesses. At HSC he was eliminated by team mate Scarlett and his Ro32 elimination from WCS EU was one of the biggest upsets of a season littered with them. His 10-6 record in ATC is decent but not overwhelming. And perhaps most worrying for MMA, his old woes in the TvP matchup are beginning to resurface - he's only won 25% of his recent series against Korean protoss opposition. You may ask yourself - why is he at #5 then if all this sounds negative? Because MMA is a champion. And while he's a vulnerable one, he shows world class games just as often. All it takes is a weekend of old MMA.
San comes in at number 4 in this power rank, and he has the results to back it up. Once considered one of the worst players in the GSL in his early days, the Flash Wolves Protoss has played the long game, climbing up the ranks to the top and he looks primed to make a deep run at Dreamhack Summer. Consider his recent results: after a slow start in WCS EU, San achieved top 4 in Season 1 of this year after a narrow 2-3 loss to MMA kept him out of the finals. This season, San is taking care of business and has won his two groups, advancing to the final eight in fine form. You could tell that San was heating up at the end of 2013 with silvers in two Premier tournaments (IEM Singapore and ASUS ROG Summer) but it appears San was just getting started as he opened 2014 with a dominating win at ASUS ROG Winter, where he did not drop a map in the bracket stage (3-0 Life, 3-0 StarDust, 4-0 Dear in the finals). Still not convinced that this guy is one of the biggest threats to take the title at Dreamhack Summer? At the GSL Global Championship following Season 1 of WCS, San was the only non-WCS KR player to make the final four, and he beat the best Terran in the world, Maru, and back to back GSL runner up, soO, to get there, proving that he can go blow for blow with the best of the best in Korea. Many people may be overlooking him here, but San is one of the most dangerous players in the tournament and has every chance to walk away with the Dreamhack trophy.
MC is still without a doubt one of the best StarCraft 2 players out there and with his recent success in foreign tournaments and WCS, MC should be well prepared for Dreamhack Summer. Being an avid tournament attender and great entertainer, one thing is for sure; MC will put on an excellent show. Looking at his games from the recent Homestory Cup, MC's 0-4 loss in the finals may have you questioning his PvT. But lets be real for a moment: Taeja is a formidable opponent beyond the likes of most Terran players. Despite that disappointment, it's still another podium finish for a career littered with giant checks. Given the consistency he's been showing in WCS, making three finals in a row, along with the fact that he has as much experience as anyone in these types of events, #3 on this Power Ranking seems fair. How the Boss Toss keeps staying relevant while his contemporaries fade away is beyond us, and it doesn't look like he's anywhere close to slowing down.
Sitting pretty at the top of Aligulac and second in the WCS ranking, the Spiderzerg Hyun has to be enjoying life at the moment. Not only is he featured in a hilariously badass commercial for his sponsor's new keyboard, he also won three tournaments (WCS America, Copenhagen Games, Fragbite Masters 2014) in little over a month and finished second in Take's Ultra Invitational. The recent upswing of the zerg race has not left the former TSL zerg untouched. ZvT seems to be shifting towards roach openers, as if Hyun wasn't going to do them anyway. Modern ZvP features a broad variety of midgame attacks that Hyun had mastered before the rest of his race caught wind of their power and his ZvZ is looking solid as always. If this wasn't Dreamhack Summer then Hyun would probably top this ranking with recent success confirming his good form, a metagame that plays to his strengths and the necessary tournament experience. Alas, he finds himself in second.
You should all know the drill by now. As is tradition, TaeJa started off his summer holidays - that part of the year when he goes on a voyage around the world and bags whatever tournament he crosses - with his third consecutive HSC title a week ago. Whether or not 2014 will feature the Summer of Taeja 3.0 is still written in the stars but signs are popping up.
During an interview at HSC, TaeJa already confirmed his goal for this year: the WCS Grand Finals. He wants to end his career with a bang. As of right now he's occupying a promising spot to make it to Blizzcon, sitting at #9 in the WCS Rankings. But why stop there when it's your time of the year - possibly your last year? TaeJa is motivated, he's in good form, new hellbats seem strong and as long as his wrists don't break in half - perhaps even if they do - he's THE favorite to win the tournament and add a fourth Dreamhack trophy to his stacked collection.
Slight mistake methinks, Dayshi went out in the semis at HSC, not the quarters. Otherwise great write-up, I mostly agree with the ranks. I sincerely hope mocking Thet in creative and hilarious ways whenever Scarlett has success becomes part and parcel of TL culture.
On June 13 2014 16:13 Grovbolle wrote: San, Jjakji, MMA, Taeja are the top 4 contenders IMO
What about HyuN? he's been doing better than jjakji imo
He hasn't played anyone good the last 2 weeks though, and when he did, MMA beat him.
and jjakji lost to Innovation, MC, Snute, and First in the last 2 weeks. Only notable players he beat were maybe Armani for having some ok vT results and then I guess Patience who really isn't that great either. Then jjakji also dropped maps to Targa, Mana, and Heromarine
MC is just way too high imo. Jaedong is clearly better than him, as HSC showed. He should've beaten Taeja, MC never stood a chance.
But I love the rankings, thanks!
I just can't stay quiet about this. Jaedong won LSC, got top 4 at DH and looked like the strongest player after Taeja at HSC and he gets rank 13, while a single semifinal finish at HSC gets Scarlett rank 10. Ridiculous.
On June 13 2014 16:13 Grovbolle wrote: San, Jjakji, MMA, Taeja are the top 4 contenders IMO
What about HyuN? he's been doing better than jjakji imo
He hasn't played anyone good the last 2 weeks though, and when he did, MMA beat him.
and jjakji lost to Innovation, MC, Snute, and First in the last 2 weeks. Only notable players he beat were maybe Armani for having some ok vT results and then I guess Patience who really isn't that great either. Then jjakji also dropped maps to Targa, Mana, and Heromarine
I guess you're right, maybe I am just secretly hoping for some decent TvT this DH
On June 13 2014 16:13 Grovbolle wrote: San, Jjakji, MMA, Taeja are the top 4 contenders IMO
What about HyuN? he's been doing better than jjakji imo
He hasn't played anyone good the last 2 weeks though, and when he did, MMA beat him.
and jjakji lost to Innovation, MC, Snute, and First in the last 2 weeks. Only notable players he beat were maybe Armani for having some ok vT results and then I guess Patience who really isn't that great either. Then jjakji also dropped maps to Targa, Mana, and Heromarine
I guess you're right, maybe I am just secretly hoping for some decent TvT this DH
That's ok. I'd love to see jjakji do well too. I just feel like he hasn't lived up to the expectations I had for him in Europe
On June 13 2014 18:00 FuRong wrote: San could win ten GSLs in a row and people would still begin every article about him with "once considered one of the worst players in the GSL."
Yep. Because he was once one of the worst. Now he is a good. It's quite a compliment to him I think
On June 13 2014 16:38 Musicus wrote: MC is just way too high imo. Jaedong is clearly better than him, as HSC showed. He should've beaten Taeja, MC never stood a chance.
But I love the rankings, thanks!
I just can't stay quiet about this. Jaedong won LSC, got top 4 at DH and looked like the strongest player after Taeja at HSC and he gets rank 13, while a single semifinal finish at HSC gets Scarlett rank 10. Ridiculous.
Major MC fanboying incoming.
I don't think you can base who the better player is off one of them almost winning a matchup against someone who lost to the same player in a completely different matchup. How can you say he looked like the strongest player after Taeja anyways? Is Socke-Yoda-Nightend-Hasu really that much more impressive than Dayshi - Harstem - Hasu - Nightend - Jjakji - Dayshi? I mean, if you want to analyze who looked second best, Scarlett beat Patience - Taeja - Stork - TLO - MMA before losing to Taeja as well. MC/Taeja just seemed like a real style clash (+ MC had been playing PvT the entire tournament whereas Taeja barely played any P), just like MC/Jjakji always is a stomp. Doesn't make Jjakji a terrible player, there are just some people that a player can't overcome when they meet.
I think most of all, Jaedong went out in WCS Ro32 to Jim and Heart whereas MC is still in WCS EU Ro8. Jaedong won one more match than MC at DH and he lost against the same player the next round. Jaedong also may have won LSC but MC won WCS EU a few weeks earlier.
Yes, Jaedong deserves to be higher, but I don't feel MC deserves to be any lower. He's below the person he lost to in a recent finals and no one else there has beaten him recently or could necessarily be considered a clear favorite. Maybe San in 3, MC 4, Jaedong 5.
The only thing I don't agree with here is YoDa at 15 and Dayshi at 17, it should be the other way around because Dayshi has looked a lot more impressive lately, at least his monster mode HSC performance should be enough to slide ahead of YoDa.
This ranking just shows how subpar outside of KR is right now (imo). I mean you have Taeja topping the rankings which is fair but he doesn't even want to play this game much longer, then you have Hyun in second place who is up and down and then MC in 3rd. All 3 of those players would get eaten alive in Korea and like someone mentioned the other day i read, that the likes of MC Hyun Taeja are going to be in the WCS grand finals comfortably where the likes of Maru might struggle to get their, hell herO as well. $O$ wont be their either to try and defend his crown too.
Oh well, broken system ftw. Would like to see DeMuslim show me some more improvements though
The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
On June 13 2014 16:38 Musicus wrote: MC is just way too high imo. Jaedong is clearly better than him, as HSC showed. He should've beaten Taeja, MC never stood a chance.
But I love the rankings, thanks!
I just can't stay quiet about this. Jaedong won LSC, got top 4 at DH and looked like the strongest player after Taeja at HSC and he gets rank 13, while a single semifinal finish at HSC gets Scarlett rank 10. Ridiculous.
Major MC fanboying incoming.
I don't think you can base who the better player is off one of them almost winning a matchup against someone who lost to the same player in a completely different matchup. How can you say he looked like the strongest player after Taeja anyways? Is Socke-Yoda-Nightend-Hasu really that much more impressive than Dayshi - Harstem - Hasu - Nightend - Jjakji - Dayshi? I mean, if you want to analyze who looked second best, Scarlett beat Patience - Taeja - Stork - TLO - MMA before losing to Taeja as well. MC/Taeja just seemed like a real style clash (+ MC had been playing PvT the entire tournament whereas Taeja barely played any P), just like MC/Jjakji always is a stomp. Doesn't make Jjakji a terrible player, there are just some people that a player can't overcome when they meet.
I think most of all, Jaedong went out in WCS Ro32 to Jim and Heart whereas MC is still in WCS EU Ro8. Jaedong won one more match than MC at DH and he lost against the same player the next round. Jaedong also may have won LSC but MC won WCS EU a few weeks earlier.
Yes, Jaedong deserves to be higher, but I don't feel MC deserves to be any lower. He's below the person he lost to in a recent finals and no one else there has beaten him recently or could necessarily be considered a clear favorite. Maybe San in 3, MC 4, Jaedong 5.
Ok, right now, looking at the current form and MC making 3 finals in a row, I will concede that MC can be ranked higher than JD. But rank 13 and Scarlett and others being higher is still a joke imo. Around top 5 seems fair, I like your ranking.
jd not in top10 taeja no 1, again in tl ranks... get serious pls, wasn't it enough to call him as best player of 2013 lol jjakji #12? :D and so on, and so on
On June 13 2014 22:45 BlueStar wrote: jd not in top10 taeja no 1, again in tl ranks... get serious pls, wasn't it enough to call him as best player of 2013 lol jjakji #12? :D and so on, and so on
There might be a couple of debatable things in this power rank but TaeJa as #1 is stupidly obvious.
If we went with the X>Y>Z method of ranking players, White-Ra would be at #29 ahead of DeMusliM. Honestly, we're hoping GranpaToss gets knocked out early and just starts hanging out in the analysts' booth.
Made me rage even before I got to the Power Rank. Well done.
And may God have mercy on your souls for hoping that White-Ra gets knocked out.
On June 13 2014 22:00 Nightwishone wrote: The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
Inno is in korea. MC got raped by a foreigner in PvP, Taeja in PvT (that one isn't bad in itself if he wasn't hopeless).
Demu 29 is a joke imo. at least the promising eu zerg don't choke hard enough to lose to retired players (Serral/Zanster)
On June 13 2014 22:00 Nightwishone wrote: The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
Inno is in korea. MC got raped by a foreigner in PvP, Taeja in PvT (that one isn't bad in itself if he wasn't hopeless).
I like to throw around random matches to prove points, as it is quite effectice. For example, MC 2-0 Soulkey.
On June 13 2014 22:00 Nightwishone wrote: The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
Inno is in korea. MC got raped by a foreigner in PvP, Taeja in PvT (that one isn't bad in itself if he wasn't hopeless).
I like to throw around random matches to prove points, as it is quite effectice. For example, MC 2-0 Soulkey.
Recent results. Nice try tho. Since SK he lost Classic, Maru, sOs, Parting, Inno, herO, Impact and only won 2series against TY and Classic. 9-22 in maps, including his SK win. Definitely on par. (only took offline events)
Wow, once you hit the top 20 (hi TLO!) there are looking like some really great matchups coming. Pulling for the foreigner Zergs, and a strong Thorzain showing, so can't wait to see how this all actually goes down!!
On June 13 2014 22:00 Nightwishone wrote: The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
Inno is in korea. MC got raped by a foreigner in PvP, Taeja in PvT (that one isn't bad in itself if he wasn't hopeless).
I like to throw around random matches to prove points, as it is quite effectice. For example, MC 2-0 Soulkey.
Recent results. Nice try tho.
Well, there aren't really that many occassion of these match-ups ocurring, although there were also this time when PL sent two of their top players to DH(see how that went)
On June 13 2014 22:00 Nightwishone wrote: The lack of proleague players is their teams fault. Also, the best koreans outside of Korea are on par with proleague players. Innovation, TaeJa, Hyun and MC (and many others) could certainly compete with Maru & the others, in fact they did when they were in korea (albeit that was a long time ago and power rankings shifted a lot). What I really want is a big tournament (not just wcs finals) where proleague players will finally face other koreans so people can stop guessing who's the best based off the coolness of kespa and other bs like that.
Inno is in korea. MC got raped by a foreigner in PvP, Taeja in PvT (that one isn't bad in itself if he wasn't hopeless).
I like to throw around random matches to prove points, as it is quite effectice. For example, MC 2-0 Soulkey.
Recent results. Nice try tho.
Well, there aren't really that many occassion of these match-ups ocurring, although there were also this time when PL sent two of their top players to DH(see how that went)
Since SK he lost Classic, Maru, sOs, Parting, Inno, herO, Impact and only won 2series against TY and Classic. 9-22 in maps, including his SK win. Definitely on par. (only took offline events)
Koreans living in korea took 3 out of the 4 top spot in the last DH btw. Which was the original argument, not KeSPA.
On June 14 2014 00:52 Langsetn wrote: I love to see Snute so high ranked in any ranking system, but I don't get this, WHAT exacly is this?
Probably because he won Seatstory cup and has had some good results versus koreans recently, which is more then you can say for a lot of other people.
Yeah, but, I mean what exacly is Power Rank? I don't get it
In general it is a ranking of players skill in the opinion of the TL writers, but noone knows, how it is REALLY put together, which is part of the fun of it.
Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
On June 14 2014 00:52 Langsetn wrote: I love to see Snute so high ranked in any ranking system, but I don't get this, WHAT exacly is this?
Probably because he won Seatstory cup and has had some good results versus koreans recently, which is more then you can say for a lot of other people.
Yeah, but, I mean what exacly is Power Rank? I don't get it
In general it is a ranking of players skill in the opinion of the TL writers, but noone knows, how it is REALLY put together, which is part of the fun of it.
we tape their names on a bunch of monkeys and pit them in a royal rumble
On June 14 2014 00:52 Langsetn wrote: I love to see Snute so high ranked in any ranking system, but I don't get this, WHAT exacly is this?
Probably because he won Seatstory cup and has had some good results versus koreans recently, which is more then you can say for a lot of other people.
Yeah, but, I mean what exacly is Power Rank? I don't get it
In general it is a ranking of players skill in the opinion of the TL writers, but noone knows, how it is REALLY put together, which is part of the fun of it.
we tape their names on a bunch of monkeys and pit them in a royal rumble
name changes allowed
Would be awesome to see the results that would occur, if you'd really do that.
But at topic: Sorry, if what I said came out wrong, I meant, that there is no real statistical base towards the ranking and that it is based entirely on the writers opinion, which always results in large discussion with other peoples opinions afterwards.
I see, that one could interpret malicious intentions in the comment, I can assure you, that I didn't plan that and I apologize, in case it caused harm.
On June 14 2014 00:24 Yorkie wrote: I came here to see people raging about Liquid bias and JD at number 13. I was not disappointed. Thanks for the power rank guys! :D
They know how to push my buttons, glad it entertains you at least .
Is everyone except me now a banling? That's the only way to explain that nobody has yet commented on the secret banling forum link in FireCakes paragraph. Or maybe that everyone who tried to read about firecake was suddenly trapped in a game that has not finished yet.
Taeja will struggle in group stage, then wreck everyone in the playoffs, then whine, complain and say he's not even high master on ladder, and world will be fine
I'm usually happy to point out Liquid bias, but I don't think TaeJa at #1 is really that far off. I think he has the most versatility of that top 4, and in general it's fairly accurate. The list-compilers always mention, too, that the list does not necessarily mean that in a one-on-one, a higher player should be expected to win vs. any lower player, it takes into account all matchups, recent performances, travel time, and of course, Liquid bias (TM).
On June 14 2014 00:24 Yorkie wrote: I came here to see people raging about Liquid bias and JD at number 13. I was not disappointed. Thanks for the power rank guys! :D
They know how to push my buttons, glad it entertains you at least .
JD should probably be a bit higher imo but overall I think the power rank is pretty accurate. Sorry about your boy getting snubbed, but keep in mind these are just fun and don't actually carry weight
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
Maybe the writers are intentionally misplacing players to instigate rage :O
On June 14 2014 00:24 Yorkie wrote: I came here to see people raging about Liquid bias and JD at number 13. I was not disappointed. Thanks for the power rank guys! :D
They know how to push my buttons, glad it entertains you at least .
JD should probably be a bit higher imo but overall I think the power rank is pretty accurate. Sorry about your boy getting snubbed, but keep in mind these are just fun and don't actually carry weight
idno these rankings usually have quite the impact on who wins, so i find it quite insulting that TL tries to skew the results in their favor. I would go as far as saying that this would delegitimize any Taeja championship
Too difficult to rank a proper top 5 with that sick lineup, plus given ForGG's live performances I'm a little skeptical about him. The only thing that makes me raise my eyebrows is Demuslim, rank 29th. Seriously?! Because if we take a look at the honourable mentions and the special mentions players I see way better results and most importantly a better progression during time. Demuslim was supposed to break out since 2011, I don't get why he should be considered as even remotely superior to someone like Krass, for example. He's a funny guy and a nice person, but I don't see how it translates or adds value to his play.
On June 14 2014 02:43 MavivaM wrote: Too difficult to rank a proper top 5 with that sick lineup, plus given ForGG's live performances I'm a little skeptical about him. The only thing that makes me raise my eyebrows is Demuslim, rank 29th. Seriously?! Because if we take a look at the honourable mentions and the special mentions players I see way better results and most importantly a better progression during time. Demuslim was supposed to break out since 2011, I don't get why he should be considered as even remotely superior to someone like Krass, for example. He's a funny guy and a nice person, but I don't see how it translates or adds value to his play.
demu is a great guy but i agree--but he gets consistently overrated. he did make ro32 i suppose.
On June 14 2014 02:43 MavivaM wrote: Too difficult to rank a proper top 5 with that sick lineup, plus given ForGG's live performances I'm a little skeptical about him. The only thing that makes me raise my eyebrows is Demuslim, rank 29th. Seriously?! Because if we take a look at the honourable mentions and the special mentions players I see way better results and most importantly a better progression during time. Demuslim was supposed to break out since 2011, I don't get why he should be considered as even remotely superior to someone like Krass, for example. He's a funny guy and a nice person, but I don't see how it translates or adds value to his play.
demu is a great guy but i agree--but he gets consistently overrated. he did make ro32 i suppose.
That's true. My point is that everytime he gets mentioned, there's always the line about his "untapped potential". The thing is that this line basically applies to 80% of the sc2 pros.
MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
On June 14 2014 00:24 Yorkie wrote: I came here to see people raging about Liquid bias and JD at number 13. I was not disappointed. Thanks for the power rank guys! :D
They know how to push my buttons, glad it entertains you at least .
JD should probably be a bit higher imo but overall I think the power rank is pretty accurate. Sorry about your boy getting snubbed, but keep in mind these are just fun and don't actually carry weight
Of course, and I love the rankings. But I still have to fight for Jaedong, the discussion is the best part anyway .
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
Agree, current MC now only do all-in most of the time, this only works in WCS outside korea sadly, he stood no chance againts higher players like Taeja. After yesterday San's matches, in interview he was asked why did he go all-in and he replied because it works! Make sense if all-in is enough to end the game most of the time in WCS, then why go to late game macro?
MMA is ranked too highly imo, scarlett always beat him as far as i can remember. Hence Scarlett needs to be ranked higher. However I'm afraid Scarlett is becoming only a terran killer, able to stand toe to toe againts Taeja or Bomber, but a bit shaky with other races. Also she doesn't seem to be willing to go all-in like Life, Jaedong or even SK, makes her a little bit more predictable.
Most Code S players mixes cheeses and all-ins from time to time, that's how Jaedong beat Maru and Scarlett in some of their previous games.
ok how the H#!! is demuslim on this list- he just lost to whit-ra So tired of someone for a known team automatically getting placed higher than people who actually play the game
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
How can you luck out for 3 years straight? Also, I've seen some independent finals ranking with MC - PuMa at IEM as nr. 1. Just putting that out there
But maybe you are right, and we should be cutting him by the caps for making a bad finals at HSC
I think Oz, MC and Stardust are a little overrated here, while JD and Dayshi are underrated. But overall a good list. yes, i do think there is a lack of strong protoss playing out of Korea, only San and MC can do it, and MC is not impressing me, his performance at HSC was not good at all, and he was lucky to get 2nd place. However MC is a beast, based on his potential #3 is only fair.
I think MC is still a valid strong player, i mean he beat SK in a solid macro game before, just not consistent enough. Sometimes he's really good, other times only blindly all-in or pure bad. You're right maybe he was a bit drunk at HSC final.
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
This is coming from the same writers that put EG-TL at the #1 spot for SPL....
and go ahead, save away ^^
Jaedong is FAR better than Snute and Scarlett, it's not even a comparison lol. And Taeja will not even make top 4 Dream hack ^^
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
This is coming from the same writers that put EG-TL at the #1 spot for SPL....
and go ahead, save away ^^
Jaedong is FAR better than Snute and Scarlett, it's not even a comparison lol. And Taeja will not even make top 4 Dream hack ^^
On June 14 2014 04:48 Squat wrote: The EG-TL nr1 thing was probably the first time I ever started laughing helplessly at a power rank. It was just beyond silly.
it was fun tho. the last foreigner vs korea hope in some sort xD
Mistakes are sometimes made, EGTL nr.1 was certainly one of them. They also put Fantasy in the top 5 worldwide once, which was probably in the same league of failure. I think this one is pretty accurate, maybe player A is a bit over- or player B a bit underrated, but there are no really big wtf-placements. Jaedong is at 13, because he failed to advance to the WCS ro16 twice this year. He is probably underrated right now, but putting him higher would also be kinda wrong, if you keep his WCS AM performance in mind. I don't think, that he is currently assessable, DH and MLG will tell us more about his shape.
The only big thing, I would have done different here is putting Demuslim on the list. I'd favor Zanster/Serral/PiG/Morrow/GoOdy/Showtime/SortOf/MarineLorD over him.
Nice article, but it wasn't controversial enough. Also, according to this power rank the foreign terran lineup is stronger than the foreign protoss lineup at this tournament which is fairly unusual for Dreamhacks.
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
This is coming from the same writers that put EG-TL at the #1 spot for SPL....
and go ahead, save away ^^
Jaedong is FAR better than Snute and Scarlett, it's not even a comparison lol. And Taeja will not even make top 4 Dream hack ^^
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
That being said though, MC has been the most successful player in WCS EU, bar none. He's made it to 3 consecutive finals, and could make it again. Not many players have that claim to fame
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
This is coming from the same writers that put EG-TL at the #1 spot for SPL....
and go ahead, save away ^^
Jaedong is FAR better than Snute and Scarlett, it's not even a comparison lol. And Taeja will not even make top 4 Dream hack ^^
BOOK IT!
It's not the same writer, that was fionn.
RIP Fionn's passion
I like to think Fionn's passion died so Polt could live.
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
That being said though, MC has been the most successful player in WCS EU, bar none. He's made it to 3 consecutive finals, and could make it again. Not many players have that claim to fame
He is also the most earning Starcraft 2 player (just recently surpassing Flash in esport prize money) and probably most succesful Protoss player of all time. I think he can not be replaced that easy.
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
That being said though, MC has been the most successful player in WCS EU, bar none. He's made it to 3 consecutive finals, and could make it again. Not many players have that claim to fame
He is also the most earning Starcraft 2 player (just recently surpassing Flash in esport prize money) and probably most succesful Protoss player of all time. I think he can not be replaced that easy.
He earned a TON of money beating up on foreign scrubs. He, along with Hero, were the first Koreans that realized just how much money they could make ezmoding through foreign tournaments. You'll notice that as soon as more and more Koreans started coming over, MC's success fell off hard. Dude got 4-0'd by Taeja , who struggles vs foreigners. MC is rated too highly imo. It's hard to rank Koreans that are based in the foreign scene, like Hyun/MC/Taeja, since they play real competition so infrequently
That's why these power rankings are tricky in particular, because there are no Code S players attending. Also makes me wonder why this things labeled a premier, when 30+ guys in Korea could come and win this thing for free, but eh, I can enjoy college football so I'll enjoy this tourney, even if it's a few notches below real SC2.
MC isn't very relevant in the SC2 scene. I mean, sure, he can win WCS EU... but where's the glory in that? Beating foreigners and people that couldn't take the heat in Korea? I loved MC in the past, but these are new times. He didn't get any worse, the competition just got a lot better.
On June 14 2014 07:21 Dodgin wrote: I remember that one time Kespa players went to dreamhack and won the whole thing for free
Yeah TY, RorO, Flash, sOsx2 are all still counting all their free dreamhack money.
OH WAIT NO. sOs got Ro8 at Bucharest, 9th-12th at DH Winter, TY got Ro16 before he was beaten by (wait for it) MC at Bucharest this year, and RorO and Flash both failed to make top 16, meaning they got outperformed by several foreigners.
On June 14 2014 07:28 Popkiller wrote: I wonder if it's the travel/jet lag or if Kespa players just look at non-GSL/SPL tournaments like vacations and don't care how they do.
If Dreamhack went to Seoul, for example, what would the results look like?
I can virtually guarantee that this one is not the case. One look at Flash's face post DH elimination can tell you that.
On June 14 2014 07:28 Popkiller wrote: I wonder if it's the travel/jet lag or if Kespa players just look at non-GSL/SPL tournaments like vacations and don't care how they do.
If Dreamhack went to Seoul, for example, what would the results look like?
no time too; no free rides? I don't know. If we look at MLG's listing it's just as weak as this now and it is what it is. If I watch anything it will be the semis/finals if I have time.
On June 14 2014 07:28 Popkiller wrote: I wonder if it's the travel/jet lag or if Kespa players just look at non-GSL/SPL tournaments like vacations and don't care how they do.
If Dreamhack went to Seoul, for example, what would the results look like?
I can virtually guarantee that this one is not the case. One look at Flash's face post DH elimination can tell you that.
Flash really hasn't done crap individually yet though to be frank.
On June 14 2014 07:28 Popkiller wrote: I wonder if it's the travel/jet lag or if Kespa players just look at non-GSL/SPL tournaments like vacations and don't care how they do.
If Dreamhack went to Seoul, for example, what would the results look like?
On June 14 2014 07:21 Dodgin wrote: I remember that one time Kespa players went to dreamhack and won the whole thing for free
oh this is funny, it was actually MC who knocked out TY at the previous dreamhack.
Happy this was said. Let these guys tell it and Kespa players always win.. but the reality is that when these guys come to play with the rest of the world, they get bopped by the likes of Taeja, Polt, MC and even foreigners.
On June 14 2014 07:21 Dodgin wrote: I remember that one time Kespa players went to dreamhack and won the whole thing for free
oh this is funny, it was actually MC who knocked out TY at the previous dreamhack.
Happy this was said. Let these guys tell it and Kespa players always win.. but the reality is that when these guys come to play with the rest of the world, they get bopped by the likes of Taeja, Polt, MC and even foreigners.
I think we need to see more kespa vs non-kespa interaction to gain a better point of view. Last weekend gave of a very strong KT/CJ representation at Sandisk, but also a very weak Samsung showing at HSC. Especially Bomber made Stork look leagues under him, IIRC.
However on a good day, he's more than capable of plowing through players such as Welmu, Yoda, Jjakji, First and even MC, all of whom will be playing here at this Dreamhack.
However, this is an error. Welmu is not on the player list for Dreamhack
I remember that Dreamhack where Axiom sent Impact along for some reason and he got knocked out in the group stage by a player ten times better than him.
On June 14 2014 03:01 dirtclodmcgee wrote: MC is like #15, he lucks out a lot of the time owing to the inherent gimmickiness of protoss...he does us a disservice in cheesing his way deep into tourneys as he just spoils what could have been good series by eventually getting stomped so hard becuz his cheese can only carry him so far (see HSC IX final). i used to like him but now i dread every time he gets remotely deep in a tourney
eheh this is how i've felt about MC for 3 yrs, never understood his fans
How can you luck out for 3 years straight? Also, I've seen some independent finals ranking with MC - PuMa at IEM as nr. 1. Just putting that out there
But maybe you are right, and we should be cutting him by the caps for making a bad finals at HSC
MC is great at Protoss vs foreigners, because foreigners can't hold all-ins. Unfortunately it's worthless vs any decent player, so he doesn't even try to make an attempt in the GSL these days.
I didn't even watch HSC (saw the 0-4 score and was quite surprised). To me, MC/Stardust/duck2/Toss123 in the foreigner scene is exactly same player, they just cheese at a high level. They're a stain to players like Rain/herO/Zest same way Puma was to MvP. I don't even mean them ill-will or anything, I just sigh when they win
So im just going to go ahead and assume the writers involved in this post are mostly anti-protoss and pro-zerg players... so much negativity towards the protosses especially white-ra... altho cant really tell if what they said was in good nature or wishing him to actually get knocked out early...
On June 14 2014 13:32 Advantageous wrote: So im just going to go ahead and assume the writers involved in this post are mostly anti-protoss and pro-zerg players... so much negativity towards the protosses especially white-ra... altho cant really tell if what they said was in good nature or wishing him to actually get knocked out early...
MC is great at Protoss vs foreigners, because foreigners can't hold all-ins. Unfortunately it's worthless vs any decent player, so he doesn't even try to make an attempt in the GSL these days.
lol this is what i was saying. It's like come on dude, they have been doing it again and again! I know toss all-in by default is rather hard to hold, especially with very good micro and timing from players like mc, cheese dust, san, etc
Good example is when Life got cheesed and all-ins by cheese dust at DH Bucharest. It was hard to hold no doubt, and dust almost got him. Foreigners needs to train harder againts all-in like this.
On June 14 2014 13:32 Advantageous wrote: So im just going to go ahead and assume the writers involved in this post are mostly anti-protoss and pro-zerg players... so much negativity towards the protosses especially white-ra... altho cant really tell if what they said was in good nature or wishing him to actually get knocked out early...
On June 14 2014 13:32 Advantageous wrote: So im just going to go ahead and assume the writers involved in this post are mostly anti-protoss and pro-zerg players... so much negativity towards the protosses especially white-ra... altho cant really tell if what they said was in good nature or wishing him to actually get knocked out early...
I stronly disagree with this PR. I think the old PRs were much better investigated and balanced. For example I don't think Oz or MMA are that much better than Jaedong, Scarlett or Snute. ForGG, the #7, was just recently demolished by VortiX. So much questionable rankings.
Still the #1 is clear. Taeja.
I'd also suggest limiting the PR on 10 people, because making a difference between for example #21 and #22 is virtually impossible. Still thanks for the effort! The idea is good. Let's see how it will play out.
It's fun to watch the Kespa/Proleague/GSL circlejerk and then watch Zest lose with an immortal/sentry all-in versus slowlings and sOs loses 1-3 to Dayshi, who MC 3-1'd. MC is a stain to protoss like Zest? Zest is a stain to protoss like MC. Stick to your macro and leave all-ins to the boss.
On June 14 2014 21:07 Heavenlee wrote: It's fun to watch the Kespa/Proleague/GSL circlejerk and then watch Zest lose with an immortal/sentry all-in versus slowlings and sOs loses 1-3 to Dayshi, who MC 3-1'd. MC is a stain to protoss like Zest? Zest is a stain to protoss like MC. Stick to your macro and leave all-ins to the boss.
Nit picking much? Sk, maru, soo, zest, sos, classic etc play way better than he does. Just watch some games instead of showing you have no clue.
On June 15 2014 01:31 Zealously wrote: MMA beat MC in the past and now he's below him on the Power Rank? What the hell, is this a joke? Pls know your stuff before ranking players
On June 15 2014 01:31 Zealously wrote: MMA beat MC in the past and now he's below him on the Power Rank? What the hell, is this a joke? Pls know your stuff before ranking players
You're upset because Life isn't default #1 right?
I think the TL writers should officially apologize. I mean the Liquid bias is pretty obvious at this point, a Liquid player at #1? Haha
On June 15 2014 01:31 Zealously wrote: MMA beat MC in the past and now he's below him on the Power Rank? What the hell, is this a joke? Pls know your stuff before ranking players
We should have ranked them by amount of DHs won. That way I could've smuggled HerO up...
On June 14 2014 21:07 Heavenlee wrote: It's fun to watch the Kespa/Proleague/GSL circlejerk and then watch Zest lose with an immortal/sentry all-in versus slowlings and sOs loses 1-3 to Dayshi, who MC 3-1'd. MC is a stain to protoss like Zest? Zest is a stain to protoss like MC. Stick to your macro and leave all-ins to the boss.
Nit picking much? Sk, maru, soo, zest, sos, classic etc play way better than he does. Just watch some games instead of showing you have no clue.
How is that nitpicking? Those are...things that happened. MC confirmed #1, just hand him the trophy and end this farce already.
Brief but confident summary of Jaedong! I'm a fan, but he will dominate SC2? Really? I hope it will be true, even if I don't quite believe it will be true. I also wish FlaSh were better in individual leagues, but I'm not holding my breath.
On June 14 2014 01:20 Beastgief wrote: Pretty disappointing turn out, and this list is just WOW...
Jaedong is lower than Snute and Scarlett, which is simply insane. How many premier tournaments have Snute or Scarlett won in HOTS? Oh yea, a fat 0. But eh, liquid/foreign bias isn't new to these power rankings. Hell, Taeja is at #1 and the dude has no shot in this one.
San wins DH Summer for free
(sorry he's only #4)...
I'll save this comment, because of the sheer amount of misinformed rage. This is just a fun TL tradition. You're not supposed to agree with everything. It is also based on overall results as well as current form. If Jaedong is as good as you say, he'll prove it in the tournament. No prize money is awarded for getting a high ranking here
This is coming from the same writers that put EG-TL at the #1 spot for SPL....
and go ahead, save away ^^
Jaedong is FAR better than Snute and Scarlett, it's not even a comparison lol. And Taeja will not even make top 4 Dream hack ^^
BOOK IT!
BOOKED
I know this guy is permed I wanted to talk trash anyway.
On June 17 2014 16:04 Kyir wrote: I can't believe Liquid would post something like this, favoring an obvious slumping Taeja just because of the team he's on. For shame.
On June 17 2014 16:04 Kyir wrote: I can't believe Liquid would post something like this, favoring an obvious slumping Taeja just because of the team he's on. For shame.
On June 17 2014 16:04 Kyir wrote: I can't believe Liquid would post something like this, favoring an obvious slumping Taeja just because of the team he's on. For shame.
On June 17 2014 16:04 Kyir wrote: I can't believe Liquid would post something like this, favoring an obvious slumping Taeja just because of the team he's on. For shame.
On June 17 2014 16:04 Kyir wrote: I can't believe Liquid would post something like this, favoring an obvious slumping Taeja just because of the team he's on. For shame.
I don't think it was favoring Taeja that much in the end considering he won the tournamen going 17-0.
EPT
KrasS, 
Cytoplasm
White-Ra
Balloon
