• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:08
CEST 13:08
KST 20:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
https://www.facebook.com/SAINTSKINVitaminCSerumCan
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Script to open stream directly using middle click A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 725 users

Filtered Growth & Resulted Decline of SC2 (Arm. A) - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2013 15:10 GMT
#81
On September 09 2013 00:01 KelianQatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2013 23:40 Plansix wrote:
On September 08 2013 23:33 lamprey1 wrote:
they "sold" RTS eSports in a meaningless market: North America.
it never was "self sustaining" as you've noted.
eSports growth locations are in the far east.


On September 05 2013 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:
Yes, someone mentioned I should have put an argument that SC2 has a good hold on the RTS genre.
David Ting and Sundance aren't irrelevant they put a good face on new businesses and help frame eSports and the people involved as charismatic and good PR people.


are they? Sundance came off as a carnival barker by dropping SC2 with a tweet.
For all of David Ting's "leadership" IPL still has not paid their prize winners. A real leader and event promoter threatens to resign when his guys don't get paid.

Check out what Don King does when the money behind the event does not pay up.

Don King looks like a genius compared to these guys.

David Ting is a coverted engineer. He may be a great engineer with many talents.
He is a lousy live event promoter relative to any one who has done it professionally.

I am sorry, I can't take any argument seriously that suggests the folks running Esports events should be more like Don King. No matter what positive traits he has, his flaws smoother them a thousand times over.


Don King is a better promoter than David Ting... does that even need to be said? Are you living under a rock?!

Ting could shell out a quarter mil to King for about an hour of consulting time..if he wasn't booked!

http://gaming.unlv.edu/hof/index.html


I did not dispute his abilities as a promoter. I only pointed out that his character flaws out weigh his skills in my opinion.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
September 08 2013 15:32 GMT
#82
It's a bit silly comparing Don King and David Ting. King is promoting boxing which is a hugely popular sport. TV revenues or PPV are massive for boxing, this allows the player's prizes or purse to be huge. If Don King was promoting SC2, it is not going to change the prize pool simply because SC2 does not have the popularity of boxing, which is what drives the prize pool.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 09 2013 08:22 GMT
#83
Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 09 2013 13:12 GMT
#84
I wouldn't read to much into it. He is 23 years old and we can't really know what he is thinking. People retire for all sorts of reasons, family, money, injury or otherwise. He could return to become a coach later in life.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
September 09 2013 13:32 GMT
#85
You guys really should stop comparing sc2 as esport to dota and lol. Dota and LoL both are "FREE TO PLAY!!!" games that matters whole a lot more than you guys can actually grasp apparently. And no the starter edition kinda stuff is just doesn't work. Also the second factor is developers of Starcraft are not as active as Valve or Riot. Riot doesn't even get scared of spending thousands of dollars just for a simple hunch just to catch the timing window of making their game more popular knowing that i might not work at all.

The new ecosystem of e-sports gaming is whole a lot different than what Blizzard is actually doing with their e-sports games. They are still like old fashioned dads who still think delphi is still the best programming language. Blizzard doesn't like to change things up or add stuff over a course of a month like other games just to make the game more friendly or more approachable by new players that are eager to learn a thing or two so that they are gonna watch events. SC2 is too unforgiving and not as much fun compared to Dota and Lol that is simple as that and it won't change since blizzard won't change. But even if they change and make some shiny things to make the game more approachable i fear it might be too late to make the game less unforgiving for the beginners. Hell people even say dota is too unforgiving compared to lol think about that and here we want to talk about why no new players coming into the scene or even casuals are declining.

So unless we get to the Lotv and Blizzard done with making money by selling games from Starcraft and decide to make the game f2p and actually change their model, don't compare the games and don't expect anything more...
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 09 2013 13:32 GMT
#86
No one's comparing.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
lamprey1
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada919 Posts
September 09 2013 13:45 GMT
#87
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha


the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom.
with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.

i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".

the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
September 09 2013 13:46 GMT
#88
On September 09 2013 22:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's comparing.

How come? There are many people comparing. I actually see the point of this thread is kinda meaningless too. I mean it is too easy to see the game will decline at this point and figuring out why is easy too. I mean what is there to discuss really?

E-sports system changed big time. Old e-sport (BW time or WC3 time) systems or approach won't work anymore cuz it can't compete with the new one. Blizzard insisting on using the old one so the game is being treated as just another game you buy, finish campaign and move on style by the players and not even talking about multiplayer part being too unfriendly for newcomers if they want to compete with the big hitters. It is what it is.
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 09 2013 13:51 GMT
#89
On September 09 2013 22:46 Aelfric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2013 22:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
No one's comparing.

How come? There are many people comparing. I actually see the point of this thread is kinda meaningless too. I mean it is too easy to see the game will decline at this point and figuring out why is easy too. I mean what is there to discuss really?

E-sports system changed big time. Old e-sport (BW time or WC3 time) systems or approach won't work anymore cuz it can't compete with the new one. Blizzard insisting on using the old one so the game is being treated as just another game you buy, finish campaign and move on style by the players and not even talking about multiplayer part being too unfriendly for newcomers if they want to compete with the big hitters. It is what it is.

Because thats not what the discussion is about. Its about SC2 and its growth unto itself. The other games have different models on almost every level, including broadcasting. Its is hard to compare any of them on such a broad topic as "growth" and "viewership" unless you focus down on specific events.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 09 2013 14:21 GMT
#90
On September 09 2013 22:45 lamprey1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha


the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom.
with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.

i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".

the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.


Yes, exactlyyyyyyyyy

You get it :D
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
September 09 2013 14:31 GMT
#91
On September 09 2013 22:45 lamprey1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha


the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom.
with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.

i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".

the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.




I think it is normalizing. I really do. Right now the people who watch WCS every night or people who play the game or love to watch it. The launch hype is gone.
lamprey1
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada919 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-09 15:39:42
September 09 2013 15:04 GMT
#92
On September 09 2013 00:32 revel8 wrote:
It's a bit silly comparing Don King and David Ting. King is promoting boxing which is a hugely popular sport. TV revenues or PPV are massive for boxing, this allows the player's prizes or purse to be huge. If Don King was promoting SC2, it is not going to change the prize pool simply because SC2 does not have the popularity of boxing, which is what drives the prize pool.

prize pools sky rocketed in Boxing precisely BECAUSE of Don King.
he had the balls to take boxing off of network national US tv.

talk about balls beyond belief man.
PPV's first break through as a revenue stream was because of Don King.


On September 09 2013 23:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2013 22:45 lamprey1 wrote:
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha


the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom.
with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.

i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".

the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.


Yes, exactlyyyyyyyyy

You get it :D


its not like Brood War went on a straight up growth path from March 1999 onward.

SC2 still has a small, but reasonable chance of rebounding and growing in countries that are a natural fit for esports... places like China, Korea, and maybe Germany.

what korean promoters did with Brood War was promotional genius.
that kind of promotional brilliance is what is needed for SC2.

"the television producers have masterminded the creation of a star system.. "

this is how it was done.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 09 2013 15:16 GMT
#93
On September 04 2013 04:05 Plansix wrote:
That is an interesting read and I am glad someone took the time to compare the numbers from 2013 to 2012. It gets rid of a lot of the anecdotal evidence we see out there. Its good to see that the scene is steady and that if Blizzard listens to the community and players for 2014, the numbers could climb again.


All things we already knew and I think it's sad that people have to write articles with regards to it because people proclaim the sky is falling when it isn't. My advice to them is focus on the positives and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. The only opinion that matters is your own. With that mindset you will find more enjoyment in what you do.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 09 2013 16:04 GMT
#94
On September 10 2013 00:16 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 04:05 Plansix wrote:
That is an interesting read and I am glad someone took the time to compare the numbers from 2013 to 2012. It gets rid of a lot of the anecdotal evidence we see out there. Its good to see that the scene is steady and that if Blizzard listens to the community and players for 2014, the numbers could climb again.


All things we already knew and I think it's sad that people have to write articles with regards to it because people proclaim the sky is falling when it isn't. My advice to them is focus on the positives and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. The only opinion that matters is your own. With that mindset you will find more enjoyment in what you do.

The part that is most irksome is that the argument never seems to end. I feel that the discussion will be rekindled every time the Dota International comes up or LCS has it’s grand finals. Even when tons of evidences is provided to show that SC2 is moving along just fine, the argument will morph into something else. Once the off season arrives, the sky starts falling all over again. And heaven help us when a pro retires for whatever reason.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
lamprey1
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada919 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-09 16:18:41
September 09 2013 16:16 GMT
#95
ya well, if you're an RTS fan there isn't much to hope for.
so i can sympathize with their despair.

CoH2 was a complete bomb.
C&C has so much input lag its more like "observe and conquer"...as a TL.Net poster astutely observed.
Rome2 really isn't targeted to become a competitive multiplayer experience.

we should thank the baby-jesus that Starcraft is Billionaire Mike's favourite game because Blizzard's continued investment in the genre makes no financial sense.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 7
SHIN vs ClemLIVE!
Cure vs TBD
Crank 1349
Tasteless1054
ComeBackTV 990
IndyStarCraft 173
Rex105
3DClanTV 71
IntoTheiNu 26
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1349
Tasteless 1054
mouzHeroMarine 395
IndyStarCraft 173
Nina 148
Rex 105
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1023
Nal_rA 530
ToSsGirL 427
firebathero 301
Light 236
PianO 179
JulyZerg 179
Last 170
Mini 166
Leta 127
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 109
soO 103
Pusan 102
Shinee 77
Mind 76
sorry 31
NaDa 28
Barracks 22
zelot 21
sSak 18
SilentControl 11
Icarus 7
Movie 5
ivOry 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe425
League of Legends
JimRising 450
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1330
chrisJcsgo159
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor168
Other Games
gofns22596
tarik_tv21258
FrodaN1723
B2W.Neo515
DeMusliM446
shahzam396
crisheroes320
Fuzer 271
SortOf110
Lowko101
KnowMe75
Trikslyr30
ArmadaUGS29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32097
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2168
Upcoming Events
FEL
52m
FEL
4h 52m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
4h 52m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 52m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
6h 52m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 52m
RSL Revival
22h 52m
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 3h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 6h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.