On September 08 2013 23:33 lamprey1 wrote: they "sold" RTS eSports in a meaningless market: North America. it never was "self sustaining" as you've noted. eSports growth locations are in the far east.
On September 05 2013 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote: Yes, someone mentioned I should have put an argument that SC2 has a good hold on the RTS genre. David Ting and Sundance aren't irrelevant they put a good face on new businesses and help frame eSports and the people involved as charismatic and good PR people.
are they? Sundance came off as a carnival barker by dropping SC2 with a tweet. For all of David Ting's "leadership" IPL still has not paid their prize winners. A real leader and event promoter threatens to resign when his guys don't get paid.
Check out what Don King does when the money behind the event does not pay up.
Don King looks like a genius compared to these guys.
David Ting is a coverted engineer. He may be a great engineer with many talents. He is a lousy live event promoter relative to any one who has done it professionally.
I am sorry, I can't take any argument seriously that suggests the folks running Esports events should be more like Don King. No matter what positive traits he has, his flaws smoother them a thousand times over.
Don King is a better promoter than David Ting... does that even need to be said? Are you living under a rock?!
Ting could shell out a quarter mil to King for about an hour of consulting time..if he wasn't booked!
It's a bit silly comparing Don King and David Ting. King is promoting boxing which is a hugely popular sport. TV revenues or PPV are massive for boxing, this allows the player's prizes or purse to be huge. If Don King was promoting SC2, it is not going to change the prize pool simply because SC2 does not have the popularity of boxing, which is what drives the prize pool.
I wouldn't read to much into it. He is 23 years old and we can't really know what he is thinking. People retire for all sorts of reasons, family, money, injury or otherwise. He could return to become a coach later in life.
You guys really should stop comparing sc2 as esport to dota and lol. Dota and LoL both are "FREE TO PLAY!!!" games that matters whole a lot more than you guys can actually grasp apparently. And no the starter edition kinda stuff is just doesn't work. Also the second factor is developers of Starcraft are not as active as Valve or Riot. Riot doesn't even get scared of spending thousands of dollars just for a simple hunch just to catch the timing window of making their game more popular knowing that i might not work at all.
The new ecosystem of e-sports gaming is whole a lot different than what Blizzard is actually doing with their e-sports games. They are still like old fashioned dads who still think delphi is still the best programming language. Blizzard doesn't like to change things up or add stuff over a course of a month like other games just to make the game more friendly or more approachable by new players that are eager to learn a thing or two so that they are gonna watch events. SC2 is too unforgiving and not as much fun compared to Dota and Lol that is simple as that and it won't change since blizzard won't change. But even if they change and make some shiny things to make the game more approachable i fear it might be too late to make the game less unforgiving for the beginners. Hell people even say dota is too unforgiving compared to lol think about that and here we want to talk about why no new players coming into the scene or even casuals are declining.
So unless we get to the Lotv and Blizzard done with making money by selling games from Starcraft and decide to make the game f2p and actually change their model, don't compare the games and don't expect anything more...
On September 09 2013 22:32 Torte de Lini wrote: No one's comparing.
How come? There are many people comparing. I actually see the point of this thread is kinda meaningless too. I mean it is too easy to see the game will decline at this point and figuring out why is easy too. I mean what is there to discuss really?
E-sports system changed big time. Old e-sport (BW time or WC3 time) systems or approach won't work anymore cuz it can't compete with the new one. Blizzard insisting on using the old one so the game is being treated as just another game you buy, finish campaign and move on style by the players and not even talking about multiplayer part being too unfriendly for newcomers if they want to compete with the big hitters. It is what it is.
On September 09 2013 22:32 Torte de Lini wrote: No one's comparing.
How come? There are many people comparing. I actually see the point of this thread is kinda meaningless too. I mean it is too easy to see the game will decline at this point and figuring out why is easy too. I mean what is there to discuss really?
E-sports system changed big time. Old e-sport (BW time or WC3 time) systems or approach won't work anymore cuz it can't compete with the new one. Blizzard insisting on using the old one so the game is being treated as just another game you buy, finish campaign and move on style by the players and not even talking about multiplayer part being too unfriendly for newcomers if they want to compete with the big hitters. It is what it is.
Because thats not what the discussion is about. Its about SC2 and its growth unto itself. The other games have different models on almost every level, including broadcasting. Its is hard to compare any of them on such a broad topic as "growth" and "viewership" unless you focus down on specific events.
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote: Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha
the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom. with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.
i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".
the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.
I think it is normalizing. I really do. Right now the people who watch WCS every night or people who play the game or love to watch it. The launch hype is gone.
On September 09 2013 00:32 revel8 wrote: It's a bit silly comparing Don King and David Ting. King is promoting boxing which is a hugely popular sport. TV revenues or PPV are massive for boxing, this allows the player's prizes or purse to be huge. If Don King was promoting SC2, it is not going to change the prize pool simply because SC2 does not have the popularity of boxing, which is what drives the prize pool.
prize pools sky rocketed in Boxing preciselyBECAUSEof Don King. he had the balls to take boxing off of network national US tv.
talk about balls beyond belief man. PPV's first break through as a revenue stream was because of Don King.
On September 09 2013 17:22 Torte de Lini wrote: Bisu retiring definitely makes this article look a bit too optimistic haha
the article is just a "soft denial" that the SC2 esports scene is on the precipice of doom. with lots of waffling and double negatives mixed in.
i wouldn't really call it "optimistic".
the SC2 esports is declining the only real question is.. how quickly.
Yes, exactlyyyyyyyyy
You get it :D
its not like Brood War went on a straight up growth path from March 1999 onward.
SC2 still has a small, but reasonable chance of rebounding and growing in countries that are a natural fit for esports... places like China, Korea, and maybe Germany.
what korean promoters did with Brood War was promotional genius. that kind of promotional brilliance is what is needed for SC2.
"the television producers have masterminded the creation of a star system.. "
On September 04 2013 04:05 Plansix wrote: That is an interesting read and I am glad someone took the time to compare the numbers from 2013 to 2012. It gets rid of a lot of the anecdotal evidence we see out there. Its good to see that the scene is steady and that if Blizzard listens to the community and players for 2014, the numbers could climb again.
All things we already knew and I think it's sad that people have to write articles with regards to it because people proclaim the sky is falling when it isn't. My advice to them is focus on the positives and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. The only opinion that matters is your own. With that mindset you will find more enjoyment in what you do.
On September 04 2013 04:05 Plansix wrote: That is an interesting read and I am glad someone took the time to compare the numbers from 2013 to 2012. It gets rid of a lot of the anecdotal evidence we see out there. Its good to see that the scene is steady and that if Blizzard listens to the community and players for 2014, the numbers could climb again.
All things we already knew and I think it's sad that people have to write articles with regards to it because people proclaim the sky is falling when it isn't. My advice to them is focus on the positives and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. The only opinion that matters is your own. With that mindset you will find more enjoyment in what you do.
The part that is most irksome is that the argument never seems to end. I feel that the discussion will be rekindled every time the Dota International comes up or LCS has it’s grand finals. Even when tons of evidences is provided to show that SC2 is moving along just fine, the argument will morph into something else. Once the off season arrives, the sky starts falling all over again. And heaven help us when a pro retires for whatever reason.
ya well, if you're an RTS fan there isn't much to hope for. so i can sympathize with their despair.
CoH2 was a complete bomb. C&C has so much input lag its more like "observe and conquer"...as a TL.Net poster astutely observed. Rome2 really isn't targeted to become a competitive multiplayer experience.
we should thank the baby-jesus that Starcraft is Billionaire Mike's favourite game because Blizzard's continued investment in the genre makes no financial sense.
EPT
