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On September 02 2013 10:17 pigmanbear wrote:
I think one of the big draws of watching player streams before was all the high drama .. oh shit, Destiny just queued and got IdrA ... cool, Minigun is playing Rainbow ... will SelecT hold off some crazy CombatEx cheese? etc. Nowadays if you watch a high-level stream, 90% of the games will be vs IllIlIlIlIIll or maybe IlIIIIlllIlIll, so a game that already felt a bit generic completely loses a big part of its personality. It still can be fun to watch very high-level players like HerO try new strategies (like Warp Prism speed first in PvP) and other little wrinkles in the metagame, but generally the product is bland because of IlIlIIIlllIlIl.
Watching guys stream on NA server used to be a lot of fun because you could feel a sort of community amongst GM and high-masters (before GM) and high-diamond (before Masters). The guys knew each other and tried to switch it up more.
The NA server is on the verge of dying because so many players are retiring/switching to EU/KR server. You want that rivalry/story lines from ladder? I tried to get a few orgs to do shoutcraft 2.0 for EU and NA Ladder but with the lack of growth no one is willing to invest.
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I just realized I made 8 posts instead of 1, if a mod wants to clean up I'd appreciate it. I didn't intend on replying to so many people I'm sorry that won't happen again haha ^^ <3 !
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On September 02 2013 17:39 desRow wrote:
I just realized I made 8 posts instead of 1, if a mod wants to clean up I'd appreciate it. I didn't intend on replying to so many people I'm sorry that won't happen again haha ^^ <3 !
Yet you didn't answer my post which was the only one naming you 
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On September 02 2013 19:25 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 17:39 desRow wrote:
I just realized I made 8 posts instead of 1, if a mod wants to clean up I'd appreciate it. I didn't intend on replying to so many people I'm sorry that won't happen again haha ^^ <3 ! Yet you didn't answer my post which was the only one naming you
I was at a lan tournament in Montreal so I was gone from my computer for 8 hours +
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On September 02 2013 19:32 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 19:25 Grovbolle wrote:On September 02 2013 17:39 desRow wrote:
I just realized I made 8 posts instead of 1, if a mod wants to clean up I'd appreciate it. I didn't intend on replying to so many people I'm sorry that won't happen again haha ^^ <3 ! Yet you didn't answer my post which was the only one naming you I was at a lan tournament in Montreal so I was gone from my computer for 8 hours +
I answer all your tweets to @Sc2Aligulac :-P
Just yanking your chain
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477 hours in one month ... I guess it's time to contact the Guiness World Record committee
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On September 02 2013 08:45 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 08:38 Boucot wrote:On September 02 2013 08:00 pigmanbear wrote:On September 02 2013 07:11 ImperialFist wrote:On September 02 2013 03:06 pigmanbear wrote:
ForGG would be near the top of the first list if he used Twitch TT I've never understood it, can someone explain to me why ForGG is not on twitch? I heard it was some deal Millenium had with them, so all of their players have to use it. If BabyKnight switches to DailyMotion, we'll know for sure. No, all the other Millenium players stream on Twitch. I don't understand either. However, as far as I know, the official Team Millenium stream is also on DailyMotion, and their players often play their games there.
Yes the Millenium TVs are on Dailymotion and the french players stream around 10h/week. But they're free to use Twitch besides that. Dayshi, DieStar, MaddeLisk all have a personal Twitch channel.
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interesting info,
while we surely cannot use this data to draw conclusions on whether SC2 popularity is dwindling or not. We can confidently say that it is not growing. It either stays on the same level or fades.
Taking into account the tl news, my friend's feedback I'd say that SC2 popularity is falling. And what I know for 100% is that I do not watch as many live events now as I used before.
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On September 02 2013 02:53 Oldgrain wrote:
Does anyone else think the diminishing viewer count could have something to do with twitch being not-so-good lately? I know I've watched way less in the last couple of months than before because most of the time the streams are barely watchable because of lag.
Always nice to see these, thanks a lot Conti!
I'm glad to see this was the first post in this thread as I believe it to be very significant to this topic.
If Twitch can't improve their systems then this is only going to continue to downward spiral. It seems as tho almost every major event with 20k + viewers has very high instability. Maybe half of the time a major event will experience more than just a little lag here and there, but serious lag detrimental to our viewing experience. Even lowering it to 480p which I would have been okay with, (which is no longer even an option) was completely ineffectual.
Adding that this is not just an isolated event to myself personally should go without saying as it's common knowledge already this happens across the board. Apparently from what I've heard it has to do with certain regions and such. I'd like to hear from Twitch what they intend to do to rectify this, if there is EVEN a plan in place to not just improve upon, but find a permanent solution altogether.
If sc2 or esports in general are to be ever taken more seriously by a wider audience, how can we ever expect to grow ourselves to that point if we can't even sustain the traffic we have right now?
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On September 02 2013 09:21 Stijn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 02:46 Conti wrote:Also also, go and check out Fuzic! Stijn created the awesome looking website with all kinds of stream viewership data. It's much better suited for immediate numbers and analyzing numbers from singular events. Also, it's way prettier than anything I could've ever design. (Note that his project is completely independent from mine, so if you have any questions about it, please ask him and not me.  ) Thanks for the plug! ^^ I compared your list to the monthly ranking on my site and noticed that you're not listing Zerg (EmpireTVorg.ZERG) as a player. While he does cast a lot of events he also seems to stream normal play regularly. What's your guidelines for distinguishing between players and casters?
Hmm, I do have him listed as a caster/non-player. I basically have two categories, player and non-player, and in 99% of the cases, it's pretty obvious which category someone belongs to. And then there is a handful of streamers who are both, which leaves me with two choices:
a) I manually try to find out each month when they have been playing and when they have been casting. The only way I can do that is when the streamers cast actual events which appear in the TL calendar (or by actually watching the stream 24/7, I guess). I can then exclude the numbers from the events and hope that they did not cast any other games outside of that. I do this with Rotterdam, for instance.
b) I declare them to be a caster and exclude them from the lists altogether. I did that with Nathanias back then (shoutout to him, by the way! Love his casts).
So whether I do a) or b), there is the possibility of making mistakes. I had PainUser as a caster for a long time, too, because I had no idea he actually started playing the game again on stream at some point.
I have no idea whether EmpireTVorg.ZERG is more of a caster or player at the moment, and more importantly, whether he only casts games when there's an actual event going on. If anyone has any more details about this, please do let me know!
On September 02 2013 17:17 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 03:18 Conti wrote:On September 02 2013 03:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Just a little question: why is Tasteless on the list, considering he doesn't play or cast SC2 on his stream? :/
Streamers can set the game they play in their streamer interface on teamliquid. Tasteless has the game set to SC2 (probably because that's the default, I think). I can't check every stream all the time to see if they really play what they supposedly play, and it happens all the time that streamers forget to change their game in the interface when they play another game. Also, it's Tasteless. Though if anyone could poke him to change the game to "Misc." (or was it "Other"?), that would certainly solve the issue as well. Thank you for your post, btw I think player streams doing worse is simply because Idra Demuslim and Grubby are not streaming every day anymore. No other streamer can compete with them when it comes to entertainement, sex appeal and commentary.
Especially sex appeal. :D
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On September 02 2013 20:36 SicPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 02:53 Oldgrain wrote:
Does anyone else think the diminishing viewer count could have something to do with twitch being not-so-good lately? I know I've watched way less in the last couple of months than before because most of the time the streams are barely watchable because of lag.
Always nice to see these, thanks a lot Conti! I'm glad to see this was the first post in this thread as I believe it to be very significant to this topic. If Twitch can't improve their systems then this is only going to continue to downward spiral. It seems as tho almost every major event with 20k + viewers has very high instability. Maybe half of the time a major event will experience more than just a little lag here and there, but serious lag detrimental to our viewing experience. Even lowering it to 480p which I would have been okay with, (which is no longer even an option) was completely ineffectual. Adding that this is not just an isolated event to myself personally should go without saying as it's common knowledge already this happens across the board. Apparently from what I've heard it has to do with certain regions and such. I'd like to hear from Twitch what they intend to do to rectify this, if there is EVEN a plan in place to not just improve upon, but find a permanent solution altogether. If sc2 or esports in general are to be ever taken more seriously by a wider audience, how can we ever expect to grow ourselves to that point if we can't even sustain the traffic we have right now?
Twitch served like 600k during TI3, iirc, so that seems fine.
Also, I'm very, very curious to see how BlizzCon affects these numbers. The one time I've seen SC2 talked about widely outside of its small section of the universe (TL et al) was BlizzCon 2011 and a few months afterwards. I think BlizzCon is a massive PR bump for SC2... I had people in my guild talking about MMA vs Mvp in raid, which is the first and last time SC2 was discussed during a raid.
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I don't understand why millenium do not promote ForGG's stream. It make me sad to see him with 130 average viewers compared to some other streamers. I know it will not bring any money to the team and maybe they don't want to waste space on their site but still a little help could not hurt. The guy is cool, speaks with his viewers and do a lot of fun things and he's one of the best streaming terran.
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On September 02 2013 09:51 reminisce12 wrote:
its quite sad how the sc2 community has to analyse stream view data to determine the popularity of the game... i mean if the game was any good we wouldnt even have to worry bout these things...
I'm not sure how you get this impression when this list has been around since sc2 streams took off o_O It's not like this is a new thing.
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I wouldn't say player streams are suffering as much as the fact that players just haven't been streaming as much.
I watch streams daily and lately it's been like...well I guess I'll watch Painuser because no one else is on (no offense Taylor).
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It takes a minimum of 5 hours to be eligible for the top 50 lists, however, as otherwise the data would be too unreliable.
Ever considered raising that to 10? I feel bad for the consistent streams losing spots to the almost 20% of the people in this list who only have 6-8 hrs which is likely just 2 days on out of the whole month.
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honestly if destiny stayed in the sc2 scene, he probably can't even make his rent anymore with all these massively decline in player stream.
I also don't know if this is a good thing for SC2, player stream was a great way to promote players interaction with the audiences
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On September 02 2013 23:37 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +It takes a minimum of 5 hours to be eligible for the top 50 lists, however, as otherwise the data would be too unreliable. Ever considered raising that to 10? I feel bad for the consistent streams losing spots to the almost 20% of the people in this list who only have 6-8 hrs which is likely just 2 days on out of the whole month.
I have, yes, and I'm still considering it. On the other hand, we do have two lists for precisely this reason, and if I would raise the bar to 10 hours, you could make the same argument next time once you see a streamer on the top 5 who streamed for 11 hours.
In the end, it's an artificial barrier that has to be set somewhere, and I don't think there's any rational argument to be made for any particular number. 10 hours might be better because this implies that there would be at least two separate sessions of streaming for the player (unless you are PainUser, of course  ). But then again, people would start asking where Bomber, Demuslim, Ret and so on are if they would be missing from the list, while we pretty much never have a streamer who gets good numbers who streams less than 5 hours a month.
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On September 02 2013 23:45 ETisME wrote:
honestly if destiny stayed in the sc2 scene, he probably can't even make his rent anymore with all these massively decline in player stream.
I also don't know if this is a good thing for SC2, player stream was a great way to promote players interaction with the audiences
Can't help but imagine evil smile on his face while reading all those "sc2 dying" topics. Part of me is also glad sc2 is in crisis. Maybe blizzard will finally do something.
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EPT
