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On May 12 2013 07:58 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 07:52 Maloreon wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community As much as it might hurt or offend people I think Idra is right as well. I watched the community devolve into a mass of balance whiners too many times - literally ruining LR threads that could have been fun. I've also watched the community stalk, dehumanize, and devalue (spamming, booing, DDOS attacks, hatemail, hateposts, spam to sponsors, etc...) the pro-gamers that make this whole "esports" thing possible over the smallest stuff: probe rush into nerds typing walls of text describing what a horrible being someone is. I guess I'm more laid back when it comes to some but I have to wonder about the happiness and personal lives of people who get that worked up over a video game they are watching someone else play - or getting worked up over the actions of a professional gamer who they have never met whose actions basically don't impact them at all. Yes, I understand you believe you are the one true defender of esports and that the only way for it to advance is if "pro gamer X" dies in a literal fire.... lol. I don't even understand why people would be offended at all by Idra's post on TL that has been quoted so many times (the "you are a bunch of f***ers" one) - I though it was funny. It's almost ironic that the point he was making (at least imo) lead the exact same people he was calling out to go on a witch hunt. Thing is too, I'm a pretty sensitive person in real life but I just can't get worked up by that no matter how hard I try. Well, yes, he IS right. Most peoples are entertained by dramas, rages and laughter way more than by competitive results, in anything, ever. That's not the "Starcraft Community", it's the humanity in general.
I think people need to remember as well that the way you choose to act and behave in public dictates the kind of people you attract.
Sure there's knuckleheads in every scene, but they fixate on IdrA because of how often he rages, or bm's, or creates drama needlessly.
It's naive to pretend he's faultless, or that he himself isn't somewhat to blame for creating a scene that gobbles up e- drama.
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On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community
oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few.
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Well you get my point. He's still T3 despite the fact that he hasn't been performing well. Besides a few weeks ago I checked out his stream for the first time in months and he had 8k. The guy still gets crazy viewers.
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On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few.
"Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
Now you are exagerating, every sport has its dumb followers and esports can handle those "few" just fine. Yeah the community had its bad moments and IdrA is kinda right, the problem however is that he himself is one of those figures so he can´t say ," haha your so stupid I don´t post any results but still get a fuckton of money by bming and raging for u, I love it!"
If he would say you are a bunch of fuckers for neglecting results and living for drama by not being one of the guys getting money just because of this little fact, it would be no problem at all, don´t bite the hand that feeds you.
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
What are you talking about, most of those things are direct results of one person in each case. In IdrA's case, that one person was himself. He said something dumb in a public forum where everybody could see it (for example, HIS BOSS), his boss didn't like it, and he got axed.
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
Actually, 'Orb' got Orb fired, for being foolish enough to broadcast the most juvenile and offensive form of bm possible. 'Destiny' got 'Destiny fired for choosing to treat his stream like a personal soapbox and not part of his job. And 'idra' got idra fired for making a promise to his boss and sponsors and breaking that promise in a little under a week.
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
come on not this again.. teams are financed by sponsors who pay for commercial exposure. its a cornerstone of the industry. razer (or any other sponsor) wants you to think of their keyboard if you are buying a new one, not to associate their brand with someone who calls the presumptive buyers stupid fucks. orb, destiny, stephano and idra accepted the terms when they agree to being paid to that end. making this out to be a community "witch-hunt" is more or less irrelevant
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On May 12 2013 09:03 waxypants wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? What are you talking about, most of those things are direct results of one person in each case. In IdrA's case, that one person was himself. He said something dumb in a public forum where everybody could see it (for example, HIS BOSS), his boss didn't like it, and he got axed.
No in the other scenarios besides IdrA the incident would've gone unpunished had it not been for the community backlash of the "few." The "white knights" came out in droves and decided to email sponsors. The sponsors got worried and ask for those guys removal/punishment. Stephano's case was probably the worst because of how disturbing his comments were and he would've probably been reprimanded, but the publicity of that incident and other incidents made the situation much worse than it had to be. As a result, EG and the bosses of the other two had to take immediate action or face conflict with sponsors.
With IdrA, normally his boss would've gotten over it. Remembering "fucking David Kim with a tire iron?" Remember premature GGs? Remember trash talk against players like HuK and Zenio? That was when the community didn't go too apeshit over the littlest things. However, in this case, the "white knights" decided to spam sponsors like they did to those other players. Result: the sponsors got worried and they asked them to remove IdrA. Simple.
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On May 12 2013 09:07 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? Actually, 'Orb' got Orb fired, for being foolish enough to broadcast the most juvenile and offensive form of bm possible. 'Destiny' got 'Destiny fired for choosing to treat his stream like a personal soapbox and not part of his job. And 'idra' got idra fired for making a promise to his boss and sponsors and breaking that promise in a little under a week.
I think you understate the Idra thing. It wasn't just one promise, it was years of underwhelming performance in the game and manners territories.
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On May 12 2013 09:08 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 09:03 waxypants wrote:On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? What are you talking about, most of those things are direct results of one person in each case. In IdrA's case, that one person was himself. He said something dumb in a public forum where everybody could see it (for example, HIS BOSS), his boss didn't like it, and he got axed. No in the other scenarios besides IdrA the incident would've gone unpunished had it not been for the community backlash of the "few." The "white knights" came out in droves and decided to email sponsors. The sponsors got worried and ask for those guys removal/punishment. Stephano's case was probably the worst because of how disturbing his comments were and he would've probably been reprimanded, but the publicity of that incident and other incidents made the situation much worse than it had to be. As a result, EG and the bosses of the other two had to take immediate action or face conflict with sponsors. With IdrA, normally his boss would've gotten over it. Remembering "fucking David Kim with a tire iron?" Remember premature GGs? Remember trash talk against players like HuK and Zenio? That was when the community didn't go too apeshit over the littlest things. However, in this case, the "white knights" decided to spam sponsors like they did to those other players. Result: the sponsors got worried and they asked them to remove IdrA. Simple.
I haven't pored over every thread of this on this and I don't even visit reddit, so can you post where the evidence is for this?
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
Only the DDoS is something shitheads could do by themselves. The rest you mentioned is different. Haters can't ruin careers just by being haters.
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On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few.
At least you, as a part of the community, are mature enough to don´t start to argue with someone who just said his opinion with an insult.
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On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that?
Your incredibly nieve if you are blaming a few people in the community for the mistakes that these people make. Those "few" people, didn't get them in trouble, their mistakes and stupidity did.
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On May 12 2013 09:11 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 09:07 Defacer wrote:On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? Actually, 'Orb' got Orb fired, for being foolish enough to broadcast the most juvenile and offensive form of bm possible. 'Destiny' got 'Destiny fired for choosing to treat his stream like a personal soapbox and not part of his job. And 'idra' got idra fired for making a promise to his boss and sponsors and breaking that promise in a little under a week. I think you understate the Idra thing. It wasn't just one promise, it was years of underwhelming performance in the game and manners territories.
To call someone up on their statement then write this...
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On May 12 2013 09:07 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? come on not this again.. teams are financed by sponsors who pay for commercial exposure. its a cornerstone of the industry. razer (or any other sponsor) wants you to think of their keyboard if you are buying a new one, not to associate their brand with someone who calls the presumptive buyers stupid fucks. orb, destiny, stephano and idra accepted the terms when they agree to being paid to that end. making this out to be a community "witch-hunt" is more or less irrelevant
But that was what it was. A witch hunt. If you remember Orb's incident, his actions actually preceded the community backlash by a considerable amount of time. Quite literally nobody knew of what he had done and he would've gotten away with had it not gone public. The witchhunters got pissed and spammed his sponsors. He got fired.
Destiny was probably the dumbest of the incidents. Apparently he shared nude pics of a gal friend of his to only his inner circle. The girl got pissed and posted a pic of [well you know] all over the internet. The girl probably was the biggest catalyst to the incident, but the community backlash and namely the "witchhunters" decided to make the matter even worse than it was. The result: he got fired because someone else posted a picture of his private part even though he had trusted that person.
Stephano's comments were disgusting and deserved punishment. I would've punished him anyway even without the backlash. However, in EG's case, the comments would've easily gone unpunished like IdrA's many "tire iron" or GG incidents. But no. The community got pissed. Despite the fact they knew he was just joking, the "few" decided to email sponsors and voice how "pissed" they were.
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On May 12 2013 09:11 waxypants wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 09:08 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 09:03 waxypants wrote:On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? What are you talking about, most of those things are direct results of one person in each case. In IdrA's case, that one person was himself. He said something dumb in a public forum where everybody could see it (for example, HIS BOSS), his boss didn't like it, and he got axed. No in the other scenarios besides IdrA the incident would've gone unpunished had it not been for the community backlash of the "few." The "white knights" came out in droves and decided to email sponsors. The sponsors got worried and ask for those guys removal/punishment. Stephano's case was probably the worst because of how disturbing his comments were and he would've probably been reprimanded, but the publicity of that incident and other incidents made the situation much worse than it had to be. As a result, EG and the bosses of the other two had to take immediate action or face conflict with sponsors. With IdrA, normally his boss would've gotten over it. Remembering "fucking David Kim with a tire iron?" Remember premature GGs? Remember trash talk against players like HuK and Zenio? That was when the community didn't go too apeshit over the littlest things. However, in this case, the "white knights" decided to spam sponsors like they did to those other players. Result: the sponsors got worried and they asked them to remove IdrA. Simple. I haven't pored over every thread of this on this and I don't even visit reddit, so can you post where the evidence is for this?
This incident happened months ago. I don't visit reddit unless big "drama" occurs. Quite frankly I can't give you proof. However, from what I remember from the threads of the time, everyone was talking about how a bunch of trolls spammed the sponsors pretending to be "pissed" by those people. Most of the "white knights" are a bunch of trolls. Not only that, it's only common sense. You don't fire or suspend players if nobody knows or cares of their wrongdoing. If they did something wrong and it wasn't a big deal or it did not receive much attention, then punishment would be unnecessary and tedious. You only fire people if what they had done ruins their public image or relations with sponsors.
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On May 12 2013 09:15 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 09:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? come on not this again.. teams are financed by sponsors who pay for commercial exposure. its a cornerstone of the industry. razer (or any other sponsor) wants you to think of their keyboard if you are buying a new one, not to associate their brand with someone who calls the presumptive buyers stupid fucks. orb, destiny, stephano and idra accepted the terms when they agree to being paid to that end. making this out to be a community "witch-hunt" is more or less irrelevant But that was what it was. A witch hunt. If you remember Orb's incident, his actions actually preceded the community backlash by a considerable amount of time. Quite literally nobody knew of what he had done and he would've gotten away with had it not gone public. The witchhunters got pissed and spammed his sponsors. He got fired. Destiny was probably the dumbest of the incidents. Apparently he shared nude pics of a gal friend of his to only his inner circle. The girl got pissed and posted a pic of [well you know] all over the internet. The girl probably was the biggest catalyst to the incident, but the community backlash and namely the "witchhunters" decided to make the matter even worse than it was. The result: he got fired because someone else posted a picture of his private part even though he had trusted that person. Stephano's comments were disgusting and deserved punishment. I would've punished him anyway even without the backlash. However, in EG's case, the comments would've easily gone unpunished like IdrA's many "tire iron" or GG incidents. But no. The community got pissed. Despite the fact they knew he was just joking, the "few" decided to email sponsors and voice how "pissed" they were.
you don't have anything substantial to back up your argument, only a feeling that things would have gone unpunished if it weren't for the meddling of the community. what i said was that you fundamentally misunderstand the dynamic of how sponsors work: a negative community backlash is not required for a player to receive consequences of his/her negative behavior, only that such behavior could be perceived as such. take into account that sponsors are trying to widen the appeal of their products and brands and not only catering to an insular hard-core of the community as this would be illogical from an economic perspective.
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On May 12 2013 09:11 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 09:07 Defacer wrote:On May 12 2013 08:52 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:On May 12 2013 08:48 Cheerio wrote:On May 12 2013 07:44 Nachtwind wrote:
i think he´s right about this community oh shut up. Everywhere and always there have been people who are dumb, but it's just as dumb to judge all of the community by those few. "Few"? Those "few" DDOS streams 24/7. Those "few" got Orb fired. Those "few" got Destiny fired. Those "few" got Stephano suspended. Those "few" got IdrA fired. Those "few" are ruining careers. Those few are somehow ruining this community and ruining esports and you expect us to just ignore that? Actually, 'Orb' got Orb fired, for being foolish enough to broadcast the most juvenile and offensive form of bm possible. 'Destiny' got 'Destiny fired for choosing to treat his stream like a personal soapbox and not part of his job. And 'idra' got idra fired for making a promise to his boss and sponsors and breaking that promise in a little under a week. I think you understate the Idra thing. It wasn't just one promise, it was years of underwhelming performance in the game and manners territories.
Oh for sure, but when you hear Incontrol explain the context of this specific incident, it really put Alex in a bind that not even he could not defend.
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