EPTNo but decent vid, the random Day9 trumpet dance kind of killed the epicness though, lol.
3 years of Wings of Liberty - Page 7
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
No but decent vid, the random Day9 trumpet dance kind of killed the epicness though, lol. | ||
|
JJH777
United States4420 Posts
These 2 posts are so biased lol. First of all since the game has released there has only 30-31 months of time so lol the first poster can't count. Terran dominance was way more than 9 months and zerg has only had like 4-5 months top. Terran dominance was basically from release to end of 2011 so like 18 months easily. They won the majority of the GSLs in that time and even the ones they lost they usually had the most in the ro8/ro4. They won tons of foreign tournament Protoss dominance was like the first 7-8 months of 2012. People just don't actually look at results and over value 1st place compared to 2nd or compared to getting like 5 in the top 8 of an event. Zerg didn't start dominating right after the queen patch it took a while at least in ZvP (which they've actually never had significantly more than a 50% winrate in). They won WCS Korea, WCS Asia, WCS Global, WCG, TSL4, GSL, WCG Korea, HSC, Dreamhack, IEM, OSL etc. Their real dominance during this time wasn't in what they won though it was in ro4s, ro8s and 2nd places. They had the most players in the first 2 ro8s of GSL. They had a player in the finals of the first 2 GSLs. They had players in the finals of like 4 MLGs, IPL4, HSC, Asus Rog, NASL, etc. In the first MLG of the year even though the final was a TvZ Protoss had the most in the top 8. Zerg dominance really only started with the last few GSLs/MLGs of the year and IPL5. | ||
|
Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
| ||
|
totauksz
Ghana190 Posts
On February 17 2013 11:36 JJH777 wrote: Well the picture misses a ton and puts fan favorites over the players that actually won the most. Nestea isn't on there at all and MVP/MC are only one there once while Stephano is on there 3 times. These 2 posts are so biased lol. First of all since the game has released there has only 30-31 months of time so lol the first poster is an idiot. Terran dominance was way more than 9 months and zerg has only had like 4-5 months top. Terran dominance was basically from release to end of 2011 so like 18 months easily. They won the majority of the GSLs in that time and even the ones they lost they usually had the most in the ro8/ro4. They won tons of foreign tournament Protoss dominance was like the first 7-8 months of 2012. People just don't actually look at results and over value 1st place compared to 2nd or compared to getting like 5 in the top 8 of an event. Zerg didn't start dominating right after the queen patch it took a while at least in ZvP (which they've actually never had significantly more than a 50% winrate in). They won WCS Korea, WCS Asia, WCS Global, WCG, TSL4, GSL, WCG Korea, HSC, Dreamhack, IEM, OSL etc. Their real dominance during this time wasn't in what they won though it was in ro4s, ro8s and 2nd places. They had the most players in the first 2 ro8s of GSL. They had a player in the finals of the first 2 GSLs. They had players in the finals of like 4 MLGs, IPL4, HSC, Asus Rog, NASL, etc. In the first MLG of the year even though the final was a TvZ Protoss had the most in the top 8. Zerg dominance really only started with the last few GSLs/MLGs of the year and IPL5. there wasn't even such a thing as protoss dominance. seed had a lucky streak and barely won over byun and symbol.. and protoss was always doing pretty good in foreign tournaments, but no domination at all. squirtle had 2 good runs in his whole career. if it wasn't for MC the results for the protoss race alltogether would be practically zero. | ||
|
JJH777
United States4420 Posts
On February 17 2013 11:47 totauksz wrote: there wasn't even such a thing as protoss dominance. seed had a lucky streak and barely won over byun and symbol.. and protoss was always doing pretty good in foreign tournaments, but no domination at all. squirtle had 2 good runs in his whole career. if it wasn't for MC the results for the protoss race alltogether would be practically zero. Seed didn't get lucky he said himself in his victory interview that the first 2 maps were bad vZ and he knew he wouldn't lose vs Symbol on the next 3. I guess he got a little lucky vs Byun but either way MC still would have made the finals. In the season Squirtle got to the finals there were 5 protoss in the ro8 and 3 in the ro4. If that's not domination then no race has ever dominated. Genius also got a finals appearance. WCS Korea, WCS Asia, and WCS global all had PvP finals with Protoss also having the most in the top 8. None of those were won by MC. Protoss have won plenty even if you discount MC. Plus if you want to play the: "well if you discount this players results then this race sucks!" then just look at 2012 Terran if you get rid of MVP. That's waaaay worse than Protoss without MC. Or look at 2010-2011 zerg without Nestea. They would have gone a year and a half without winning a GSL. From fruitdealers win all the way until DRGs. | ||
|
totauksz
Ghana190 Posts
On February 17 2013 11:55 JJH777 wrote: Seed didn't get lucky he said himself in his victory interview that the first 2 maps were bad vZ and he knew he wouldn't lose vs Symbol on the next 3. I guess he got a little lucky vs Byun but either way MC still would have made the finals. In the season Squirtle got to the finals there were 5 protoss in the ro8 and 3 in the ro4. If that's not domination then no race has ever dominated. Genius also got a finals appearance. WCS Korea, WCS Asia, and WCS global all had PvP finals with Protoss also having the most in the top 8. None of those were won by MC. Protoss have won plenty even if you discount MC. Plus if you want to play the: "well if you discount this players results then this race sucks!" then just look at 2012 Terran if you get rid of MVP. That's waaaay worse than Protoss without MC. Or look at 2010-2011 zerg without Nestea. They would have gone a year and a half without winning a GSL. From fruitdealers win all the way until DRGs. when nestea won, zergs were not dominant so that example of yours is pointless. if we take out mvp, we still have mkp, top, jjakji, rainbow, mma, etc if we take out nestea we still have drg leenock life all of these are gsl finalists and winners. you take out mc, what do you get?  it's not the same. you can try to make it seem the same but it's not at all.wcs korea some of the big names fell out: leenock in a zvz, mvp fell to polt, and also protoss had seed, squirtle, rain, hero, creator, parting, mc 6-7undisputed best protosses in the world. terran had MVP, gumiho, and polt. even these are arguable as the best of the world. the rest is not worth mentioning. zerg had leenock, drg, curious. again very arguable as bests in the world. Protoss had a huge statistical advantage in this particular tournament. anyone who looked at the ro32 brackets could predict that a protoss wins it 90%. that's what you get if you have less top quality players of the other races. you can try to suggest how this is protoss domination but the race distribution at the start was massed up hugely for protoss' favor. if you put 10 of the world's best players of one race and just 2 of the others it's very likely that that race wins. the correlation to in game balance is very very very low in this case. WCS Asia is this multiplied by 10. All the top protosses in the world were in this tournament and terran and zerg had 90% no names. Curious was the only protoss worth mentioning, terran had NONE, protoss had rain, creator, squirtle, hero, parting seed. it was practically 100% that a protoss wins this, again not because of in game balance, because the racial distribution combined with skill was hugely protoss favored. if this tournament counts as an argument then you can use "mkp all killed vVv gaming so terran is overpowered" as an argument too. in wcg finals was parting vs adelscott, mkp lost to a zerg. no further explaining needed. all 3 examples are flawed as arguments extremely. look at the tournaments with the biggest average skill, gsls, ipls, mlgs, etc. protoss never ever had a dominating period compared to terran/zerg in this sense. now i'm pretty sure some of the zerg and terran wins can be picked apart this way (the zerg wins a little bit less), but I don't define a race's domination if they win a few tournaments here and then. it needs to be a constant dominating fashion in all matchups over a longer period of time and protoss NEVER had anything like that if you take MC out of the equation, and this is not at all true for the other 2 races. | ||
|
DauBo
United States20 Posts
| ||
|
Spermwahale
United States85 Posts
| ||
|
Spermwahale
United States85 Posts
On February 17 2013 02:37 Aveng3r wrote: we are living a history Oh good god... History? Hardly.. | ||
|
mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
On February 16 2013 19:36 Gackt_ wrote: gotta be far more at GSL finals in Korea? am I misstaken? and btw bring back the copper league, it ruled Nah , their venues are always like 1,000 to 2,00 people max, Average attendance is probably 1200, sometimes less. | ||
|
IceBergZ
Malaysia176 Posts
| ||
|
Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
| ||
|
cerb
Germany215 Posts
I liked how the biggest changes, or better say the changes with the most impact, were mentioned. Thanks for the effort. | ||
|
ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
| ||
|
29 fps
United States5725 Posts
| ||
|
ppshchik
United States862 Posts
GSL then went downhill with shit 4-0 finals lol. | ||
|
SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
| ||
|
Brett
Australia3822 Posts
| ||
|
ThePhan2m
Norway2751 Posts
| ||
|
JJH777
United States4420 Posts
On February 17 2013 14:51 totauksz wrote: it needs to be a constant dominating fashion in all matchups over a longer period of time Zerg has never done this even during the heights of Protoss whining this year they never went significantly above 50% in ZvP for multiple months. The TLPD graphs were favoring Protoss while they were still being made. http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png The last 3 months that a graph got made was Protoss favored. Then there is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385829 all major tournaments from september-december and PvZ is 52% in Protoss's favor. | ||
| ||
