The 2012-2013 season of the Proleague will begin on December 8th, with SK Planet returning as the sponsor. Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight and a foreign team (unnamed). This team will be revealed at the upcoming media day on December 4th. Also, there will be English broadcasts beginning in the new season.
The season will be one year long, with 6 rounds being played. Rounds 2 and 5 will be Winners League Format (all-kill format). The regular matches will be best of seven, and the policy of revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 has returned. Round 1 will be played from the 8th to the 30th, while the schedule for further rounds will be determined taking expanded international tournament participation and HotS into consideration.
Two channels will broadcast this season of the Proleague, OnGameNet and SPOTV. SPOTV is an internet channel owned by IEG. The games will be broadcast four days a week, on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. Two games will be played back to back on weekend game days.
On November 27 2012 21:16 GTR wrote: Anyone know the specifics of where SPOTV's broadcasting studio is located and whether fans can come in and watch the games live?
On November 27 2012 21:17 Paraiba wrote: Wait no GOM teams? And what about Team 8?
I guess they find it logical that their own team participates in their own league, they say 8 teams participate and they list 7, so you can assume 100% that T8 will be participating. Still weird that they don't mention it explicitly lol.
On November 27 2012 21:17 Paraiba wrote: Wait no GOM teams? And what about Team 8?
I guess they find it logical that their own team participates in their own league, they say 8 teams participate and they list 7, so you can assume 100% that T8 will be participating. Still weird that they don't mention it explicitly lol.
Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight
On November 27 2012 21:17 Paraiba wrote: Wait no GOM teams? And what about Team 8?
I guess they find it logical that their own team participates in their own league, they say 8 teams participate and they list 7, so you can assume 100% that T8 will be participating. Still weird that they don't mention it explicitly lol.
Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight
Oh welp, i stand corrected. Somehow that got cut off by my screen.
This is very exciting! I wish though that there was someway to include the GOM teams in Proleague. Those are the worlds that I want to see collide. Although including a foreign team may be enough to hold me over for now.
I really like that they're having six rounds this time around, and the all-kill format in rounds 2 and 5 should allow for some great shows. I both like and dislike the policy of having to reveal players 1-6 before the game. I love that teams will be rewarded for preparing specific strategies for specific players, but I dislike (or maybe that's not quite the word) what it'll do for the foreign team. No foreign team I know of has the potential to prepare as extensively and in-depth for a single match-up as the KeSPA teams, which'll put said team at a huge disadvantage. That said, this is Proleague - they'll have to learn to prepare themselves.
On November 27 2012 21:17 Paraiba wrote: Wait no GOM teams? And what about Team 8?
I guess they find it logical that their own team participates in their own league, they say 8 teams participate and they list 7, so you can assume 100% that T8 will be participating. Still weird that they don't mention it explicitly lol.
Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight
Oh welp, i stand corrected. Somehow that got cut off by my screen.
On November 27 2012 21:16 GTR wrote: Anyone know the specifics of where SPOTV's broadcasting studio is located and whether fans can come in and watch the games live?
it's all at yongsan
from what I read on TIG, weekdays matches are held at Sindorim, weekend ones are at Yongsan
and what does "expanded international tournament participation" mean? Does KeSPA consider the possibility of foreign team bailing out after a few rounds?
On November 27 2012 21:26 Zealously wrote: I really like that they're having six rounds this time around, and the all-kill format in rounds 2 and 5 should allow for some great shows. I both like and dislike the policy of having to reveal players 1-6 before the game. I love that teams will be rewarded for preparing specific strategies for specific players, but I dislike (or maybe that's not quite the word) what it'll do for the foreign team. No foreign team I know of has the potential to prepare as extensively and in-depth for a single match-up as the KeSPA teams, which'll put said team at a huge disadvantage. That said, this is Proleague - they'll have to learn to prepare themselves.
they don't mention the exact timing, but I think it's probably the day-before reveal, not the 2 minutes before match reveal
On November 27 2012 21:26 Zealously wrote: I really like that they're having six rounds this time around, and the all-kill format in rounds 2 and 5 should allow for some great shows. I both like and dislike the policy of having to reveal players 1-6 before the game. I love that teams will be rewarded for preparing specific strategies for specific players, but I dislike (or maybe that's not quite the word) what it'll do for the foreign team. No foreign team I know of has the potential to prepare as extensively and in-depth for a single match-up as the KeSPA teams, which'll put said team at a huge disadvantage. That said, this is Proleague - they'll have to learn to prepare themselves.
they don't mention the exact timing, but I think it's probably the day-before reveal, not the 2 minutes before match reveal
Certainly possible - I think you've watched a lot more proleague than I have so I'm sure you have a better idea, but still - knowing the players the opposing team will be sending out the day before the match will still reward the team with the better preparation, which I love.
One year? Damn that's amazing. Will be interesting to see which foreign team is willig to dedicate itself for that huge amount of time. I also think this makes it kinda unlikely that EG is the foreign team, since their players participate in so many international tournaments(pretty much same for Liquid). Maybe Boss just trolled us and it really is FXO.
On November 27 2012 21:31 ES.Genie wrote: One year? Damn that's amazing. Will be interesting to see which foreign team is willig to dedicate itself for that huge amount of time. I also think this makes it kinda unlikely that EG is the foreign team, since their players participate in so many international tournaments(pretty much same for Liquid). Maybe Boss just trolled us and it really is FXO.
I was thinking the same thing. There's no way EG would commit to a whole year, but if it's not FXO then who can it be?
On November 27 2012 21:17 Paraiba wrote: Wait no GOM teams? And what about Team 8?
I guess they find it logical that their own team participates in their own league, they say 8 teams participate and they list 7, so you can assume 100% that T8 will be participating. Still weird that they don't mention it explicitly lol.
Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight
Oh welp, i stand corrected. Somehow that got cut off by my screen.
If it's going to be a year-long season, maybe they could have kicked things off in January and given the players December off or something to relax.
Hopefully there's an in-built break somewhere. But a mid-season or even suspension of standing orders early on still isn't quite the same (past games/upcoming matches are still on your mind, for example).
Seems like the ESF teams are extending the olive branch and Kespa is extending the studded gauntlet, Probly fine for the BW fans, but for newer ppl (aka, got into esports off sc2) its kind of a sad story.
On November 27 2012 21:16 GTR wrote: Anyone know the specifics of where SPOTV's broadcasting studio is located and whether fans can come in and watch the games live?
it's all at yongsan
from what I read on TIG, weekdays matches are held at Sindorim, weekend ones are at Yongsan
and what does "expanded international tournament participation" mean? Does KeSPA consider the possibility of foreign team bailing out after a few rounds?
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
Just means you won't be scheduled to play on Opening Day -_-
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
Just means you won't be scheduled to play on Opening Day -_-
I thought all the teams played on opening day? Or maybe that was just for the Frankenstein PL.
Sorry if this was mention somewhere but does it say if broadcast / VODs are going to be free or the prices in case they're not? As for the foreign team, my bet is on EG!
and what does "expanded international tournament participation" mean? Does KeSPA consider the possibility of foreign team bailing out after a few rounds?
I think that means having a flexible schedule to account for players attending MLGs and other major events outside Korea.
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
That's not a proof, there will be probably only 2 teams playing on Dec. 8th, you can play on Sunday, Dec. 9th.
On November 27 2012 21:43 k!llua wrote: If it's going to be a year-long season, maybe they could have kicked things off in January and given the players December off or something to relax.
Hopefully there's an in-built break somewhere. But a mid-season or even suspension of standing orders early on still isn't quite the same (past games/upcoming matches are still on your mind, for example).
They don't celebrate Christmas that much, they will get big vacation after Round 1 on Feburary, exactly like Chinese.
They appointed Cella as a coach. It would be a waste of time getting a Korean coach for a primarily European team.
Acer are a pretty big-name sponsor for a team. Perhaps even as big as say.... SK Telecom, Samsung, CJ Corporation, KT etc.
Scarlett's had Korean aspirations. It was one of the reasons she joined Eclypsia and left them after they failed to fulfill their promises on a Korean team house after all.
Acer probably have more than enough funds to rent an apartment in Seoul and use it as a team house.
Acer can acquire loads of Koreans. SlayerS recently disbanded meaning that players like Arthur and Clide are (still) up for grabs; a few really good Koreans such as TOP, VINES, Ensnare, TheWinD etc.
There are a few (even virtually) teamless foreigners with Korean aspirations such as lastshadow and MajOr. If MajOr rejoined ROOT then left again, it probably means that he was actually offered a spot in a team, and if Proleague's coming up, he could be joining Acer soon. MajOr's only been known to leave teams in SC2 when they've either greatly wronged him (Sixjax, although they kicked him over a minor incident of BM) or because another team has given him a better offer than either retracted it or didn't deliver (ROOT, xSix.)
On November 27 2012 21:49 Verror wrote: Seems like the ESF teams are extending the olive branch and Kespa is extending the studded gauntlet, Probly fine for the BW fans, but for newer ppl (aka, got into esports off sc2) its kind of a sad story.
On November 27 2012 22:00 Clbull wrote: My guess is Team Acer. Think about it this way:
They appointed Cella as a coach. It would be a waste of time getting a Korean coach for a primarily European team.
Acer are a pretty big-name sponsor for a team. Perhaps even as big as say.... SK Telecom, Samsung, CJ Corporation, KT etc.
Scarlett's had Korean aspirations. It was one of the reasons she joined Eclypsia and left them after they failed to fulfill their promises on a Korean team house after all.
Acer probably have more than enough funds to rent an apartment in Seoul and use it as a team house.
Acer can acquire loads of Koreans. SlayerS recently disbanded meaning that players like Arthur and Clide are (still) up for grabs; a few really good Koreans such as TOP, VINES, Ensnare, TheWinD etc.
There are a few (even virtually) teamless foreigners with Korean aspirations such as lastshadow and MajOr. If MajOr rejoined ROOT then left again, it probably means that he was actually offered a spot in a team, and if Proleague's coming up, he could be joining Acer soon. MajOr's only been known to leave teams in SC2 when they've either greatly wronged him (Sixjax, although they kicked him over a minor incident of BM) or because another team has given him a better offer than either retracted it or didn't deliver (ROOT, xSix.)
How are they going to hold matches at sindorim? Will there not be a live audience?
The intel e-sports stadium doesn't have enough space to hold casters/audience/players. The e-stadium is a glorfied PC bang. unless they plan on really giving it makeover.
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
Confirmed liar now. We all know Leenock can run 100 metres in 12 seconds.
On November 27 2012 22:00 Clbull wrote: My guess is Team Acer. Think about it this way:
They appointed Cella as a coach. It would be a waste of time getting a Korean coach for a primarily European team.
Acer are a pretty big-name sponsor for a team. Perhaps even as big as say.... SK Telecom, Samsung, CJ Corporation, KT etc.
Scarlett's had Korean aspirations. It was one of the reasons she joined Eclypsia and left them after they failed to fulfill their promises on a Korean team house after all.
Acer probably have more than enough funds to rent an apartment in Seoul and use it as a team house.
Acer can acquire loads of Koreans. SlayerS recently disbanded meaning that players like Arthur and Clide are (still) up for grabs; a few really good Koreans such as TOP, VINES, Ensnare, TheWinD etc.
There are a few (even virtually) teamless foreigners with Korean aspirations such as lastshadow and MajOr. If MajOr rejoined ROOT then left again, it probably means that he was actually offered a spot in a team, and if Proleague's coming up, he could be joining Acer soon. MajOr's only been known to leave teams in SC2 when they've either greatly wronged him (Sixjax, although they kicked him over a minor incident of BM) or because another team has given him a better offer than either retracted it or didn't deliver (ROOT, xSix.)
Honestly point 4 could apply to anyone then. A lot of international teams could just straight up "acquire" all those koreans. By that logic Azubu and SK are in the running =P
Major is after a kespa team, not a team which may play against kespa.
And Acer has the same issue as Liquid: too small given the too few players they'd base in Korea. Nerchio is adamantly local to EU. Scarlett, Bly and MMA might make up some of the team, but even then I doubt Scarlett and Bly are committing to a full year of Korea. So if Acer do it, they need to do point 4. Not even "maybe", but "have to". As stated, point 4 could mean anyone is in the running.
Now on topic of guessing, for some reason a number of teams were never raised. People only seemed to note EG, Liquid, Fnatic and FXO KR (which is the weirdest thing to note...), but why not Complexity or Quantic?
On November 27 2012 22:00 Clbull wrote: My guess is Team Acer. Think about it this way:
They appointed Cella as a coach. It would be a waste of time getting a Korean coach for a primarily European team.
Acer are a pretty big-name sponsor for a team. Perhaps even as big as say.... SK Telecom, Samsung, CJ Corporation, KT etc.
Scarlett's had Korean aspirations. It was one of the reasons she joined Eclypsia and left them after they failed to fulfill their promises on a Korean team house after all.
Acer probably have more than enough funds to rent an apartment in Seoul and use it as a team house.
Acer can acquire loads of Koreans. SlayerS recently disbanded meaning that players like Arthur and Clide are (still) up for grabs; a few really good Koreans such as TOP, VINES, Ensnare, TheWinD etc.
There are a few (even virtually) teamless foreigners with Korean aspirations such as lastshadow and MajOr. If MajOr rejoined ROOT then left again, it probably means that he was actually offered a spot in a team, and if Proleague's coming up, he could be joining Acer soon. MajOr's only been known to leave teams in SC2 when they've either greatly wronged him (Sixjax, although they kicked him over a minor incident of BM) or because another team has given him a better offer than either retracted it or didn't deliver (ROOT, xSix.)
I'm going to rebuke most of your arguments.
Like acer, eg just got a Korean manager/coach.
The players you named are not good Koreans. Most of the people you mentioned haven't been seen in the gsl in the last year. Plus clide is a coach in kt.
Major stated he wanted to join a kespa team because its his dream. He's not joining acer. Also lastshadow has not been doing well in sc2 and he's said in many interviews that he would live in Korea if it wasn't for sc2 because he loves it there.
Not saying its not acer, but most of your arguments don't make sense.
I was thinking a while back going by what incontrol was saying that EG were going to do a team house in Korea at the beginning of next year and maybe along with that they will sign a team of 5 Koreans to play in pro league. All I know is neither Liquid or EG have enough players to compete in Team Leagues with their current set ups. Liquid being spread out and not having a very deep roster most Korean teams have 8 or so high level players and for some around 10 b-team players Liquid if they joined pro league they would be banking on the other teams not having snipers ready just for Taeja and Hero. And EG's roster being mostly in Texas is an issue.
The foreign team should be Liquid but prob won't be. However this is easily now the least interesting tournament in the world for me, it is the only tournament where most of top players are NOT ALLOWED to participate, such a strange concept.
But, the drawback to a year long format, is that it completely eliminates the chance of any collaboration of a joint league for 1 whole year
Also, matches being revealed first again? I think it was better that way because you could get hyped about epic matches, but aren't they worried about any match-fixing scandal again?
They should get their stuff together already, make a league with Kespa, Gom, and as many foreigners they can squeeze in, per internet if needs be. If SC2 won't stand together, all that BW build up in credibility and sponsor infrastructure will go to waste, or get transfered to LoL or w/e...
On November 27 2012 22:00 Clbull wrote: My guess is Team Acer. Think about it this way:
They appointed Cella as a coach. It would be a waste of time getting a Korean coach for a primarily European team.
Acer are a pretty big-name sponsor for a team. Perhaps even as big as say.... SK Telecom, Samsung, CJ Corporation, KT etc.
Scarlett's had Korean aspirations. It was one of the reasons she joined Eclypsia and left them after they failed to fulfill their promises on a Korean team house after all.
Acer probably have more than enough funds to rent an apartment in Seoul and use it as a team house.
Acer can acquire loads of Koreans. SlayerS recently disbanded meaning that players like Arthur and Clide are (still) up for grabs; a few really good Koreans such as TOP, VINES, Ensnare, TheWinD etc.
There are a few (even virtually) teamless foreigners with Korean aspirations such as lastshadow and MajOr. If MajOr rejoined ROOT then left again, it probably means that he was actually offered a spot in a team, and if Proleague's coming up, he could be joining Acer soon. MajOr's only been known to leave teams in SC2 when they've either greatly wronged him (Sixjax, although they kicked him over a minor incident of BM) or because another team has given him a better offer than either retracted it or didn't deliver (ROOT, xSix.)
Man, it would be awesome if Acer or whatever team it's going to be, grabs up all the teamless Koreans right now and forms a real team(not some kind of 6man squad).
Oh and btw, I'm pretty sure Clide is a coach for KT.
On November 27 2012 22:22 Hall0wed wrote: No ESF teams is fucking stupid. Hope they manage to provide us with a decent stream this time, the stream for this last OSL was pretty terrible.
If some ESF teams asked KeSPA for join proleague, they sure will be considered seriously. Obviously no ESF team wants to join proleague to dicredit GSTL.
i'm actually mixed feelings on the english casting part... I will miss hearing Sayle's english casts of proleague for sure, (unless OGN somehow managed to hire him). i think it unlikely for him to do an audio-only cast but if he did, i'd listen in. i will stay open to this new english cast though (lol can't let year-old nostalgia hold me down)...
pretty exciting news overall, i can't wait to see how it all unfolds
On November 27 2012 22:36 fenrysk wrote: i'm actually mixed feelings on the english casting part... I will miss hearing Sayle's english casts of proleague for sure, (unless OGN somehow managed to hire him). i think it unlikely for him to do an audio-only cast but if he did, i'd listen in. i will stay open to this new english cast though (lol can't let year-old nostalgia hold me down)...
pretty exciting news overall, i can't wait to see how it all unfolds
DoA and MonteCristo will be doing the weekend matches because they work at OGN. No idea who will do SPOTV matches in English.
I really don't see the point of this. Yes, from "we want to be like a real commercial sport so badly" point of view, making a closed long league with signed teams is logical, but really, who is the target audience of this? I don't seem this to cater to anyone but BW fans who love their players and want to cheer for them - but wasn't their low number one of the main reasons they switched to SC2 in the first place? Also, if they wished to please the BW fans, they could have stayed on BW - I am sure their viewers would like that!
From a point of view of an SC2 fan, this league is completely nonsensical. It would be completely different if the Elephant theory held and the KeSPA players have proven themselves in GSL, but it did not happen at all, baring some exceptions (yes, Rain is sooo good, but I see that more as his personal victory than anything). So now for a regular SC2 fan, this is something like a juinor football, it is a league restricted to players who are clearly shown not to be the best in the sport. Who wants to watch that?
Again this could be completely different ... if there were not enough other SC2 to watch, but that is very much not the case either...
The only salvation for this league I can see is the end of the trading ban and these apparently richer teams buying out the best talent out of the eSF teams. Now that is something I would watch!
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
Forgot Leenock is pronounced Reebok in Korean. Almost fooled me BoSs.
none of this sounds like it would be EG or Liquid. Because they called it a foreign team I doubt that it would be FXO.KR since they are entirely Korean and are eSF members. At this point I'd be willing to bet that it's Fnatic. Why not? They're not eSF, they're considered "foreign", they have the Seoul based players(and have committed to expanding), they don't have to commit to GSTL, they don't have the international schedule that Liquid/EG have, and they have a lot of credibility going back a long time. I would be shocked if it wasn't Fnatic.
I don't know how we can even consider a team like Complexity that has no team house in Seoul, not nearly enough Seoul based players, not enough prestige(sorry Jason), they just barely launched their team house in Texas, and they aren't even known in Korea at all. Basically a 0% chance that it's Complexity.
It is pretty sure to be fnatic, Liquid or EG. Reasons : fnatic - well, reasonable number of players in Korea. Liquid - unlikely, 4 players seems to be too little. EG - normally I would not pick them to be the most likely candidate, but Incontrol mentioned something big coming up for EG.
So my guess would be EG as I suppose they are wealthy enough (maybe some money for Kespa are needed?) and can have enough players in Korea if they want to (new recruits/Byul ?). Incontrol might be English commentator ? They had some links with Slayers -> Boxer.
Getting so pumped! With the boos in general skill it will be sick to follow a League like this and support a team all year long with constant games just like the Bundesliga here in German :D
On November 27 2012 22:39 opisska wrote: I really don't see the point of this. Yes, from "we want to be like a real commercial sport so badly" point of view, making a closed long league with signed teams is logical, but really, who is the target audience of this? I don't seem this to cater to anyone but BW fans who love their players and want to cheer for them - but wasn't their low number one of the main reasons they switched to SC2 in the first place? Also, if they wished to please the BW fans, they could have stayed on BW - I am sure their viewers would like that!
From a point of view of an SC2 fan, this league is completely nonsensical. It would be completely different if the Elephant theory held and the KeSPA players have proven themselves in GSL, but it did not happen at all, baring some exceptions (yes, Rain is sooo good, but I see that more as his personal victory than anything). So now for a regular SC2 fan, this is something like a juinor football, it is a league restricted to players who are clearly shown not to be the best in the sport. Who wants to watch that?
Again this could be completely different ... if there were not enough other SC2 to watch, but that is very much not the case either...
The only salvation for this league I can see is the end of the trading ban and these apparently richer teams buying out the best talent out of the eSF teams. Now that is something I would watch!
Considering volatility of SC2, this league has quite a lot of players that can be considered top players in SC2 and are improving quite quickly still. Plus their format is much better than GSTL, I don't even watch GSTL but I will watch this and I am not original BW fan.
On November 27 2012 22:39 opisska wrote: I really don't see the point of this. Yes, from "we want to be like a real commercial sport so badly" point of view, making a closed long league with signed teams is logical, but really, who is the target audience of this? I don't seem this to cater to anyone but BW fans who love their players and want to cheer for them - but wasn't their low number one of the main reasons they switched to SC2 in the first place? Also, if they wished to please the BW fans, they could have stayed on BW - I am sure their viewers would like that!
From a point of view of an SC2 fan, this league is completely nonsensical. It would be completely different if the Elephant theory held and the KeSPA players have proven themselves in GSL, but it did not happen at all, baring some exceptions (yes, Rain is sooo good, but I see that more as his personal victory than anything). So now for a regular SC2 fan, this is something like a juinor football, it is a league restricted to players who are clearly shown not to be the best in the sport. Who wants to watch that?
Again this could be completely different ... if there were not enough other SC2 to watch, but that is very much not the case either...
The only salvation for this league I can see is the end of the trading ban and these apparently richer teams buying out the best talent out of the eSF teams. Now that is something I would watch!
Well, as someone who watched Korean BW this is why I will watch PL.
1. My favorite team is SKT 2. The new maps will make the games different than games in other leagues, hopefully in a good way. 3. A year long season makes it feel like you are following something important, the team you are cheering for will play 42 matches + playoffs if they make it there 4. Foreign team will make things fun 5. I like proleague format more than GSTL format, although they will be doing two rounds of winners league which is OK I guess, I would prefer one round.
I think It's supposed to cater mainly to the KR audience who already knows all of these players and teams.
The general skill level in the upcoming PL will be almost as good as GSTL, and eventually just as good. The Kespa players train hard every day and are constantly improving. We see more and more of them making it into GSL so a lot of them are at least Code A level. ( and Code A level is quite good when you look at who is in Code A )
On November 27 2012 22:53 mcc wrote: It is pretty sure to be fnatic, Liquid or EG. Reasons : fnatic - well, reasonable number of players in Korea. Liquid - unlikely, 4 players seems to be too little. EG - normally I would not pick them to be the most likely candidate, but Incontrol mentioned something big coming up for EG.
So my guess would be EG as I suppose they are wealthy enough (maybe some money for Kespa are needed?) and can have enough players in Korea if they want to (new recruits/Byul ?). Incontrol might be English commentator ? They had some links with Slayers -> Boxer.
But I might be completely wrong
Fnatic have like five players total: aLive, NightEnd, Moon, Oz and someone. Not nearly enough.
Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
On November 27 2012 22:36 fenrysk wrote: i'm actually mixed feelings on the english casting part... I will miss hearing Sayle's english casts of proleague for sure, (unless OGN somehow managed to hire him). i think it unlikely for him to do an audio-only cast but if he did, i'd listen in. i will stay open to this new english cast though (lol can't let year-old nostalgia hold me down)...
pretty exciting news overall, i can't wait to see how it all unfolds
DoA and MonteCristo will be doing the weekend matches because they work at OGN. No idea who will do SPOTV matches in English.
Is an english broadcast also confirmed for the weekday matches? o.o
How many players does EG have in Korea? JYP, Puma, Huk... that's it? Say Idra goes too, that's only 4. I have a hard time imagining Stephano will stay in Korea for a long time. He'll want his healthy dose of easy foreigner tournaments.
And with how JYP and Puma have been doing lately, Huk still stuck in an 8 gate time warp from yesteryear, even if they managed to field a team, wouldn't they just end up embarrassing themselves?
On November 27 2012 22:49 Ender985 wrote: Axiom! Since it is basically ex-Slayers and all (?) of its players are already in Korea, even though it's still considered a foreign team.
They now only have 3 members of ex-Slayers so i don't think they could be. FXO is a part of ESF but are they considered as foreign team ?
edit: Maybe it'll be an united of fnatic - EG - Axiom - Acer ( All of them are foreign team and have members live in Korea ) ? Can't wait to see it
It is not FXO, maybe Team Liquid or EG. No Airforce Ace T_T My favorite team is gone. I hope when Flash goes to army, he will resurrect the best team ever.
On November 27 2012 23:10 ramask2 wrote: Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
I was just thinking why no one is mentioning Gama Bears.
Its not a real foreign team. I think more of fnatic. The teams players have to be in korea and thats not the case for all EG or Liquid players. And Liquids Roster is too small for ProLeague.
On November 27 2012 23:10 ramask2 wrote: Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
I was just thinking why no one is mentioning Gama Bears.
because then every cw would be 0-6 or 1-6 ... sry but expect sen there is no player in whole taiwan that could do anything against the koreans
On November 27 2012 23:10 ramask2 wrote: Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
I was just thinking why no one is mentioning Gama Bears.
because there is something called the Taiwan eSports League. Gama Bears moving their entire team to Korea for ProLeague would be like a KeSPA team quitting ProLeague to play IPTL(pretending IPTL were live matches in America).
On November 27 2012 23:10 ramask2 wrote: Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
I was just thinking why no one is mentioning Gama Bears.
because then every cw would be 0-6 or 1-6 ... sry but expect sen there is no player in whole taiwan that could do anything against the koreans
Then why do any but toptopkorean ever participate to any tournament at all? In MLG there's huge open bracket full of not even diamond level players. Maybe from team managers perspective the exposure is worth even if you don't win that many games.
On November 27 2012 23:10 ramask2 wrote: Maybe the foreign team in question could be from Asian foreigners as well. I'm thinking of teams from Taiwan or China. Would love it to be Liquid or EG though, mainly because I want the foreigners in those team to stay in Korea for a long time to train.
I was just thinking why no one is mentioning Gama Bears.
because then every cw would be 0-6 or 1-6 ... sry but expect sen there is no player in whole taiwan that could do anything against the koreans
Then why do any but toptopkorean ever participate to any tournament at all? In MLG there's huge open bracket full of not even diamond level players. Maybe from team managers perspective the exposure is worth even if you don't win that many games.
because it's close for them. if gama bears were korea based, yeah sure they might participate. but not when the effort required is disproportionate
It's really sad that GOM and Kespa are so competitive, I think eventually we will need to see them work together if we truly want our sport to succeed.
I think it's going to be some sort of collaboration between several foreign teams, managed by either Liquid or EG, but any player on a foreign team can play if they're in Korea. No individual team (except FXO if Boss is trolling) has enough players in Korea to even field a complete roster. Plus, given the propensity for players to only stay for a couple months at most, this would allow for players to come and go at their leisure.
OTOH, it's probably not as big of a commitment as it appears for a single team to play. Kespa says they'll take foreign tournaments into account while scheduling, so whatever team it would be would probably be alright sending a majority of their lineup for a weekend to MLG if Kespa isn't going to screw them over and make them play that Saturday. In this case, it's probably between EG or Liquid, with EG in the lead because Liquid's non-Korean players haven't really expressed interest in going to Korea afaik (except TLO, but he just returned to Europe).
Who is going to cast the English broadcast? Moletrap has left Korea, is Doa still there? Or will Wolf/Khaldor and/or Tastosis be invited, despite working for GOM?
now the most important question: do we get a fantasy league? it would be awesome, even more awesome with eg in the lineup ^^ make it happen! btw: one year for proleague, thats longer than normal isnt it?
I don't see it being EG now, how are they going to have enough players to commit for a full year? Unless they are setting up a team house over there and adding more players to their roster and making structural changes I don't see it happening. That leads me to the conclusion that this "foreign team" is actually a combination of two or more teams. I just don't see any of the major foreign teams being able to commit for a year by themselves.
On November 28 2012 00:15 Larkin wrote: Who is going to cast the English broadcast? Moletrap has left Korea, is Doa still there? Or will Wolf/Khaldor and/or Tastosis be invited, despite working for GOM?
On November 27 2012 22:38 GTR wrote: DoA and MonteCristo will be doing the weekend matches because they work at OGN. No idea who will do SPOTV matches in English.
On November 27 2012 22:53 mcc wrote: .... EG - normally I would not pick them to be the most likely candidate, but Incontrol mentioned something big coming up for EG. ....
I personally think this is correct. It must be EG. One of the only teams with enough clout, money and players to remain established in Korea.
Also, Incontrol did indeed make reference to an announcement being made soon regarding something big, I think he even mentioned that it regards Korea. This is closest thing we have to evidence of any teams participation.
As a fan, if it is EG, I just hope they bring their A game and put on some great performances. Idra has recently shown he is up to the task. I would love to see Huk (my fav player) show us why he was one of the few to be able to hang with Koreans.
On November 28 2012 00:15 Larkin wrote: Who is going to cast the English broadcast? Moletrap has left Korea, is Doa still there? Or will Wolf/Khaldor and/or Tastosis be invited, despite working for GOM?
On November 27 2012 22:38 GTR wrote: DoA and MonteCristo will be doing the weekend matches because they work at OGN. No idea who will do SPOTV matches in English.
Sorry for double post.
Thanks man. I didn't want to trawl through pages of "I wonder if it's EG" to find out.
I'd love to see a cross over between two teams. EGLiquid'RC would be quite the thing. Puma, JYP, Huk, Taeja, Hero, Sea, Zenio and possibly Byul is not a lineup to sniff at.
Great to hear that they announced a date and time and that they finally have English casters. Looking forward to this. Will be exciting to see who the foreign team is. I still think it's EG though, but we will see
I hope revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 doesn't end up with an other matchfixing scandal , because it could potentially ruin Proleague . Though i am really excited about this , we could again see the era of TBLS , JangBi , Fantasy and some old greats like Calm doing well again .
On November 28 2012 00:39 raga4ka wrote: I hope revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 doesn't end up with an other matchfixing scandal , because it could potentially ruin Proleague . Though i am really excited about this , we could again see the era of TBLS , JangBi , Fantasy and some old greats like Calm doing well again .
cause you need to know your oppenent to throw games.
Oh plz plz plz be EG! Could someone tell me who is casting this in English? I would love to watch this but I just wanted to know who the English caster(s) are.
My thoughts are: It can't be Liquid. TLO would have never left korea if so. Either EG because of the player base or Acer because they got Cella and they probably want to compete with LG/Samsung promotionwise...
On November 28 2012 00:39 raga4ka wrote: I hope revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 doesn't end up with an other matchfixing scandal , because it could potentially ruin Proleague . Though i am really excited about this , we could again see the era of TBLS , JangBi , Fantasy and some old greats like Calm doing well again .
cause you need to know your oppenent to throw games.
it's because it allows bet sites enough time to take bets -_-
On November 28 2012 00:39 raga4ka wrote: I hope revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 doesn't end up with an other matchfixing scandal , because it could potentially ruin Proleague . Though i am really excited about this , we could again see the era of TBLS , JangBi , Fantasy and some old greats like Calm doing well again .
cause you need to know your oppenent to throw games.
Betting sites need to know the match ups to offer odds.
All kill format?! Ohhh shit. Bisu resurgence incoming?!
Which international team could possibly commit to 1 year? Especially when Kespa league isn't part of the gom-dh-MLG partnership?
This is will be very interesting. During BW days foreign tourney scene was abysmal and not really worth Kespa players' time. But now there's so much money and exposure outside of Korea I wonder how they'll work around the schedule.
Maybe that's why this season is a year long? Because they will be taking certain weeks off (doesn't MLG And Kespa have some kind of agreement?)
On November 28 2012 01:17 Lawliet wrote: All kill format?! Ohhh shit. Bisu resurgence incoming?!
Which international team could possibly commit to 1 year? Especially when Kespa league isn't part of the gom-dh-MLG partnership?
This is will be very interesting. During BW days foreign tourney scene was abysmal and not really worth Kespa players' time. But now there's so much money and exposure outside of Korea I wonder how they'll work around the schedule.
Maybe that's why this season is a year long? Because they will be taking certain weeks off (doesn't MLG And Kespa have some kind of agreement?)
Your confusing GOM with IEM. IEM-DH-MLG signed a partnership, GOM had no part of it.
While as an EG fan I would love to see EG in the Proleague, I think may be a Chinese team. In the interviews with Comm and XiGua both complained that their were no team leagues in china, and Kespa has legitimacy to it in China that Gom never had/will have. I think Kespa will see this as an opportunity to market SC2 with former BW greats that many Chinese fans already know.
This would never happen(maybe not never, but extremely unlikely), but I would love to see a rebirth of F.United from GSTL, but in Proleague. A team full of mostly foreigners and a few Koreans competing. Bring forth some of the best Foreigner players that are willing to make the commitment to stay in Korea for a few months and a few Koreans in other teams that are also willing to work beside them.
On November 28 2012 01:41 yoshi245 wrote: This would never happen(maybe not never, but extremely unlikely), but I would love to see a rebirth of F.United from GSTL, but in Proleague. A team full of mostly foreigners and a few Koreans competing. Bring forth some of the best Foreigner players that are willing to make the commitment to stay in Korea for a few months and a few Koreans in other teams that are also willing to work beside them.
But I guess that is asking too much.
That would be kinda sweet actually, but i don't see it happening.
It seems to obviously be some combination of fnatic and eg players, representing raidcall. Remember that the main appeal for sponsors here is getting on Korean tv, and raidcall is big enough in Asia to benefit from that.
On November 28 2012 01:50 jalstar wrote: It seems to obviously be some combination of fnatic and eg players, representing raidcall. Remember that the main appeal for sponsors here is getting on Korean tv, and raidcall is big enough in Asia to benefit from that.
That would actually be pretty sweet - some kind of RaidCall United.
On November 28 2012 01:50 jalstar wrote: It seems to obviously be some combination of fnatic and eg players, representing raidcall. Remember that the main appeal for sponsors here is getting on Korean tv, and raidcall is big enough in Asia to benefit from that.
Makes a lot of sense actually. Still curious to where Byul ended up.
And yeah, Sayle was a great BW caster, but he did admit his lack of knowledge in sc2 and that he doesn't have the same passion casting them, which is understandable by all means.
Which leads me to one conclusion: We need more Korean BW! lol. I'm pretty happy with watching sc2 though.
People were talking about EG and proleague on twitch yesterday, which is before this news, so I'm guessing it's them. But they need more koreans for it, and a house over there aswell.
I have heard this EG-Proleague rumor for a while. Does anyone know where it originated?
It seems like such a far stretch for me as most their players have previously stated they have no interest in playing in Korea. I don't see them picking up and leaving Arizona to live in Korea and jeopardize the popular foreign tournament schedule that EG players have.
Sorry if this has been asked but are VODs of this available to subscribers? English Casters? I'm not sure how the coverage was for international fans in BW, but whether they had english casters or not its definitely in their interest to have some now...
On November 28 2012 01:17 Lawliet wrote: All kill format?! Ohhh shit. Bisu resurgence incoming?!
Which international team could possibly commit to 1 year? Especially when Kespa league isn't part of the gom-dh-MLG partnership?
This is will be very interesting. During BW days foreign tourney scene was abysmal and not really worth Kespa players' time. But now there's so much money and exposure outside of Korea I wonder how they'll work around the schedule.
Maybe that's why this season is a year long? Because they will be taking certain weeks off (doesn't MLG And Kespa have some kind of agreement?)
Your confusing GOM with IEM. IEM-DH-MLG signed a partnership, GOM had no part of it.
You're absolutely correct. eSF and ESF are two different organization XD
Can you someone explain to me the point of the format they use?
I am sure I must be misunderstanding something because to me it looks like they play 5 rounds where every team plays every team, but after the final round there are playoffs based on the results of that round and a winner is declared. This doesn't make sense at all as it means the previous rounds are all irrelevant.
Can someone explain to me the significance of the previous rounds please?
On November 28 2012 01:17 Lawliet wrote: All kill format?! Ohhh shit. Bisu resurgence incoming?!
Which international team could possibly commit to 1 year? Especially when Kespa league isn't part of the gom-dh-MLG partnership?
This is will be very interesting. During BW days foreign tourney scene was abysmal and not really worth Kespa players' time. But now there's so much money and exposure outside of Korea I wonder how they'll work around the schedule.
Maybe that's why this season is a year long? Because they will be taking certain weeks off (doesn't MLG And Kespa have some kind of agreement?)
Your confusing GOM with IEM. IEM-DH-MLG signed a partnership, GOM had no part of it.
You're absolutely correct. eSF and ESF are two different organization XD
THAT'S TOTALLY NOT CONFUSING AT ALL.
What's ESF? I think you mean ESL, and yeah they're totally different.
On topic: Will once again cheer for Khan. Go Stork.
On November 28 2012 01:17 Lawliet wrote: All kill format?! Ohhh shit. Bisu resurgence incoming?!
Which international team could possibly commit to 1 year? Especially when Kespa league isn't part of the gom-dh-MLG partnership?
This is will be very interesting. During BW days foreign tourney scene was abysmal and not really worth Kespa players' time. But now there's so much money and exposure outside of Korea I wonder how they'll work around the schedule.
Maybe that's why this season is a year long? Because they will be taking certain weeks off (doesn't MLG And Kespa have some kind of agreement?)
Your confusing GOM with IEM. IEM-DH-MLG signed a partnership, GOM had no part of it.
You're absolutely correct. eSF and ESF are two different organization XD
THAT'S TOTALLY NOT CONFUSING AT ALL.
Actually I think he confused ESL and ESF, (god damnit I wish I was joking). But yeah, ESL which is functionally IEM.
On November 28 2012 02:03 EvanC wrote: I have heard this EG-Proleague rumor for a while. Does anyone know where it originated?
It seems like such a far stretch for me as most their players have previously stated they have no interest in playing in Korea. I don't see them picking up and leaving Arizona to live in Korea and jeopardize the popular foreign tournament schedule that EG players have.
EGFnaticRC seems to be an interesting thought.
I've always considdered Fnatic a korean team, isn't that so?
On November 28 2012 01:50 jalstar wrote: It seems to obviously be some combination of fnatic and eg players, representing raidcall. Remember that the main appeal for sponsors here is getting on Korean tv, and raidcall is big enough in Asia to benefit from that.
I was thinking this too. It'd be a bit strange because EG and Fnatic both have a lot going on other than SC2 where they wouldn't need to be partners, but just from the perspective of Proleague, it makes a lot of sense.
I`ve many questions that probably no one can answer, but I will ask anyway:
1. Are they going to use the same uninspired maps every major SC2 tournament always uses? Or will they allow Rose of Dream wing up great maps like in BW?
2. What is going on with Bisu? It is really enraging that he seems to be fading way because of SC2.
3. At which time is it going to happen? 14:00 KST mid week and 12:00 KST (I guess?) in sundays like usually?
4. Will nanashin stream it, even if it is only SC2 now?
5. Does SK Planet sponsorship again means they couldn`t find new sponsors?
6. What should I be feeling right now? I feel excited about Proleague being back but then frustrated because I remember it`s SC2.... but then there are Jaedong, Bisu, Flash, Fantasy... but it`s SC2 and experience tells me I shouldn`t expect too much from it...
So glad they are announcing the players before the matches again! This used to make the hype for proleague so crazy and it really bummed me out when the whole match fixing scandal had to ruin it.
Now players will be able to tailor specific builds against the race and person they are facing that day, which will add even more to the game ^^. Surprised most people aren't excited as hell about it.
On November 28 2012 02:11 dardoz wrote: Can you someone explain to me the point of the format they use?
I am sure I must be misunderstanding something because to me it looks like they play 5 rounds where every team plays every team, but after the final round there are playoffs based on the results of that round and a winner is declared. This doesn't make sense at all as it means the previous rounds are all irrelevant.
Can someone explain to me the significance of the previous rounds please?
Each round counts for the final results, based on those 4 teams come up, where the 4th placed team plays vs the 3rd placed team then the winner play the 2nd placed team and finally the winner of the second match plays the 1st. This placing is based on those 5 rounds summed together. It seems this season rounds 1,3,4 will be the normal proleague format (bo7 with ace match) and rounds 2,5 will be all-kill bo7. The team with most wins gets 1st place (counting all rounds) and then they use match score (wins - loses) for tiebreakers.
On November 28 2012 02:11 dardoz wrote: Can you someone explain to me the point of the format they use?
I am sure I must be misunderstanding something because to me it looks like they play 5 rounds where every team plays every team, but after the final round there are playoffs based on the results of that round and a winner is declared. This doesn't make sense at all as it means the previous rounds are all irrelevant.
Can someone explain to me the significance of the previous rounds please?
Standings are taken from the entire season, not just the last round. So a team can own up rounds 1, 2 and 3... bomb rounds 4, 5 and 6... and still potentially be in the playoffs even if they played badly near the end of the season.
On November 28 2012 02:01 zicoz wrote: People were talking about EG and proleague on twitch yesterday, which is before this news, so I'm guessing it's them. But they need more koreans for it, and a house over there aswell.
Incontrol talked about "big news" and that stuff. So i assume they will have a house there in a few months and Proleague participation makes lots of sense if you commit so much resources to korea.
Am I the only one thinking it will be some kind of Proleage version of F United? I dunno, if it would be EG or something I'm pretty sure they would have gone out with the name of the team already. The foreigner team still being unnamed makes me think it's just some kind of mix with players.
On November 27 2012 21:23 bLzPostman wrote: So everyone is thinking EG right?
Nope. EG would get stomped in ProLeague. They don't have the depth to compete. TL or coL are probably the best bets, based on past participation in the GSTL.
EDIT: Maybe EG (based on all the allusions to "big news"), TL or coL. I still fear that EG would get stomped horribly, though. They just don't have much depth to their roster to compete with Proleague teams.
On November 27 2012 21:23 bLzPostman wrote: So everyone is thinking EG right?
Nope. EG would get stomped in ProLeague. They don't have the depth to compete. TL or coL are probably the best bets, based on past participation in the GSTL.
im suprise there isnt more talk about coL, imo this is the team with the highest chance to go in PL
On November 28 2012 02:33 Vasoline73 wrote: So glad they are announcing the players before the matches again! This used to make the hype for proleague so crazy and it really bummed me out when the whole match fixing scandal had to ruin it.
Now players will be able to tailor specific builds against the race and person they are facing that day, which will add even more to the game ^^. Surprised most people aren't excited as hell about it.
I'm excited about it ! I always found funny how much effort players put into sniping each other with insane strategies, it encourages "pimpest plays" stuff. Players will always be somewhat prepared, and we wont have usual "Oh, i prepared for a zerg but they sent a protoss" in interviews anymore.
On November 27 2012 21:23 bLzPostman wrote: So everyone is thinking EG right?
Nope. EG would get stomped in ProLeague. They don't have the depth to compete. TL or coL are probably the best bets, based on past participation in the GSTL.
im suprise there isnt more talk about coL, imo this is the team with the highest chance to go in PL
They would be stomped so hard it would be sad to watch.
On November 28 2012 01:50 jalstar wrote: It seems to obviously be some combination of fnatic and eg players, representing raidcall. Remember that the main appeal for sponsors here is getting on Korean tv, and raidcall is big enough in Asia to benefit from that.
wow that makes a lot of sense. I wish I'd thought of it
On November 27 2012 21:14 Waxangel wrote: Source: Daily Esports
The 2012-2013 season of the Proleague will begin on December 8th, with SK Planet returning as the sponsor. Eight teams will be participating, including KT Rolster, Samsung Khan, SK Telecom T1, CJ Entus, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, KeSPA Team Eight and a foreign team (unnamed). This team will be revealed at the upcoming media day on December 4th. Also, there will be English broadcasts beginning in the new season.
The season will be one year long, with 6 rounds being played. Rounds 2 and 5 will be Winners League Format (all-kill format). The regular matches will be best of seven, and the policy of revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 has returned. Round 1 will be played from the 8th to the 30th, while the schedule for further rounds will be determined taking expanded international tournament participation and HotS into consideration.
Two channels will broadcast this season of the Proleague, OnGameNet and SPOTV. SPOTV is an internet channel owned by IEG. The games will be broadcast four days a week, on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. Two games will be played back to back on weekend game days.
Think they would want a foreigner to cast in Chinese?
On November 27 2012 22:53 mcc wrote: .... EG - normally I would not pick them to be the most likely candidate, but Incontrol mentioned something big coming up for EG. ....
I personally think this is correct. It must be EG. One of the only teams with enough clout, money and players to remain established in Korea.
Also, Incontrol did indeed make reference to an announcement being made soon regarding something big, I think he even mentioned that it regards Korea. This is closest thing we have to evidence of any teams participation.
As a fan, if it is EG, I just hope they bring their A game and put on some great performances. Idra has recently shown he is up to the task. I would love to see Huk (my fav player) show us why he was one of the few to be able to hang with Koreans.
Side note, where in the world is JYP?
Well if you think about it this way. He mentioned that EG had big plans for Korea in his blog. This means either 2 things they are planning to recruit more Koreans orrr recruit more Koreans and join Proleague. He then mentioned he was really proud of this organization and everything it is doing. He was a successful broodwar player and what more does a broodwar player want more than to play in proleague? I don't think he will necessarily play in proleague, but to be a part of an organization that is is something.
On November 27 2012 21:23 bLzPostman wrote: So everyone is thinking EG right?
Nope. EG would get stomped in ProLeague. They don't have the depth to compete. TL or coL are probably the best bets, based on past participation in the GSTL.
im suprise there isnt more talk about coL, imo this is the team with the highest chance to go in PL
They would be stomped so hard it would be sad to watch.
The guy was talking about coL having depth when all they have are Ganzi and Heart lol.
On November 28 2012 02:32 fabiano wrote: I`ve many questions that probably no one can answer, but I will ask anyway:
1. Are they going to use the same uninspired maps every major SC2 tournament always uses? Or will they allow Rose of Dream wing up great maps like in BW?
2. What is going on with Bisu? It is really enraging that he seems to be fading way because of SC2.
3. At which time is it going to happen? 14:00 KST mid week and 12:00 KST (I guess?) in sundays like usually?
4. Will nanashin stream it, even if it is only SC2 now?
5. Does SK Planet sponsorship again means they couldn`t find new sponsors?
6. What should I be feeling right now? I feel excited about Proleague being back but then frustrated because I remember it`s SC2.... but then there are Jaedong, Bisu, Flash, Fantasy... but it`s SC2 and experience tells me I shouldn`t expect too much from it...
On November 28 2012 01:09 Greggle wrote: And thus, the worst foreign molestation of all time began.
Its a foreign team, not foreign players. I expect the players to be mostly Korean.
There should be more talk about Fnatic IMO. A Raidcall team together with EG seems likely as well. I don't think it`s a single foreign team unless they acquire 2-3 additional players.
On November 28 2012 01:09 Greggle wrote: And thus, the worst foreign molestation of all time began.
Its a foreign team, not foreign players. I expect the players to be mostly Korean.
There should be more talk about Fnatic IMO. A Raidcall team together with EG seems likely as well. I don't think it`s a single foreign team unless they acquire 2-3 additional players.
Everyone is forgetting about Acer. They've got the best shot at winning out of all the foreign teams.
On November 27 2012 21:26 Zealously wrote: I really like that they're having six rounds this time around, and the all-kill format in rounds 2 and 5 should allow for some great shows. I both like and dislike the policy of having to reveal players 1-6 before the game. I love that teams will be rewarded for preparing specific strategies for specific players, but I dislike (or maybe that's not quite the word) what it'll do for the foreign team. No foreign team I know of has the potential to prepare as extensively and in-depth for a single match-up as the KeSPA teams, which'll put said team at a huge disadvantage. That said, this is Proleague - they'll have to learn to prepare themselves.
You know the reason they stopped having the players pre-revealed right?...
On November 28 2012 03:32 Aurex wrote: how has no one said fxo....
BoSs already said it wasn't them and besides I consider FXO more of an eSF team than a foreign team (when speaking specifically about the Korean line-up)
so Kespa players are seeded in the GSL (mostly to be kicked out again in code B the next season for my greater pleasure) and they don't seed some ESF players ?
Kespa at its finest... May this tournament be a dramatic failure as the sad MLG-Kespa thing,
Team Liquid I certainly hope! With a veteran like Sea and their usual lineup they have some chance to do well in the Proleague.
As for EG, they probably like foreign competition and their team house more
Acer has the problem where they and their bench get all-killed by any good anti-zerg sniper out there. Empire may not have enough power among its ranks (also has acer's problem for terran) and having listed 4 of the better foreign teams, there's little else out there.
That said, if Liquid gets proleague, they better get a few more players on their team. Maybe Kespa can help with that ?
On November 28 2012 03:36 CV-Mackh wrote: so Kespa players are seeded in the GSL (mostly to be kicked out again in code B the next season for my greater pleasure) and they don't seed some ESF players ?
Kespa at its finest... May this tournament be a dramatic failure as the sad MLG-Kespa thing,
not sure if troll or just very very stupid and hating.
On November 28 2012 03:40 pewpew415 wrote: i think a lot of the people forget that technically..fnatic is still a foreign team and is mostly likely candidate imo
I think even EG would do better than Fnatic to be honest. They've just lost Byul (possibly to EG), so all they've left is Alive and Oz (noteworthy players, that is). I can see the cooperation between Fnatic and EG though that someone speculated about a while ago, with Raidcall being the title sponsor of both teams and having Hwanni as the link between them. Together they could have a roster that could compete.
my question (especially since Wax is the topic starter): does this mean we are going to finally get fantasy league back in SCII!?!?!?!? It seems like I have been waiting for years for another fantasy GSTL, but there format change didn't really work at all for fantasy. Now with SCII proleague, the time may finally be right!
On November 28 2012 03:36 CV-Mackh wrote: so Kespa players are seeded in the GSL (mostly to be kicked out again in code B the next season for my greater pleasure) and they don't seed some ESF players ?
Kespa at its finest... May this tournament be a dramatic failure as the sad MLG-Kespa thing,
why you mad bro?
First off PL has a ~$100,000 registration fee for the teams. How man eSF teams can pay this? 2-3? Secondly, I feel like the eSF teams would want to all enter PL together or not at all. If on eSF team were to join over others, I feel like the other eSF teams would feel betrayed.
I'd so much love Axiom (3 players) to team up with any other team for this! Something along the line of Ryung, Crank, Mya, Taeja, Hero, Zenio and Sea would be a line-up i'd cheer for more than any other!
On November 28 2012 03:36 CV-Mackh wrote: so Kespa players are seeded in the GSL (mostly to be kicked out again in code B the next season for my greater pleasure) and they don't seed some ESF players ?
Kespa at its finest... May this tournament be a dramatic failure as the sad MLG-Kespa thing,
not sure if troll or just very very stupid and hating.
It sucks to hear its a year long, but its for the best, since most kespa players are still pretty much new to SC2. Gives players that time to catch up.
And hey, we will probably see a larger map rotation!
On November 28 2012 03:36 CV-Mackh wrote: May this tournament be a dramatic failure as the sad MLG-Kespa thing,
Do you realize that if an entire year-long season of Proleague is a dramatic failure, a huge chunk of Korean SC2 eSports probably falls apart?
Then this tournament should definitly exclude the top players in Korea by refusing to seed ESF that makes sense
So you still don't understand difference between GSL/OSL and GSTL/PL. Hint for you, former are individual leagues and in both of them Kespa and ESF players can participate. Latter ones are teamleagues and I did not see even one Kespa team in GSTL ? So what are you talking about?
On November 28 2012 04:10 a176 wrote: It sucks to hear its a year long, but its for the best, since most kespa players are still pretty much new to SC2. Gives players that time to catch up.
And hey, we will probably see a larger map rotation!
They were "new" half a year ago. They have caught up. I don't see the problem with it being a year long to be honest, if anything tournaments were too short, not too long.
Soooo I REALLY hope this is Liquid, like really really REALLY badly. Ideally EG but they don't have the roster to stand up in this kind of thing quite yet, so let's go liquid!
On November 28 2012 04:02 sHt_ wrote: I'd so much love Axiom (3 players) to team up with any other team for this! Something along the line of Ryung, Crank, Mya, Taeja, Hero, Zenio and Sea would be a line-up i'd cheer for more than any other!
Can't wait for the next season most people are guessing EG as the other team which is quite possible. I hope it'll be a great season I know I'll be watching!
On November 28 2012 00:39 raga4ka wrote: I hope revealing the players in matches 1 ~ 6 doesn't end up with an other matchfixing scandal , because it could potentially ruin Proleague . Though i am really excited about this , we could again see the era of TBLS , JangBi , Fantasy and some old greats like Calm doing well again .
cause you need to know your oppenent to throw games.
Betting sites need to know the match ups to offer odds.
On November 28 2012 04:28 MyFirstProbe wrote: Could the foreign team not be something like F.United once was in the GSTL?
That would certainly be awesome, but I think a Fnatic-EG combo is much more likely. aLive, Oz, Moon, Luvsic, PuMa, JYP, possibly ByuL, HuK, and any other foreigner from either team that is currently staying in Korea? That'd be pretty sick.
Mostly EG, FNatic, and TL speculations in this thread. Suprised not more Axiom. If they added 2 more players they'd have enough to compete in the league.
Very excited!!! Revealing players 1-6 (prior to the match) means that they must have put in additional rules/regulations that prevent match-fixing or related means of cheating, and probably helps build some hype before the matches begin.
On November 28 2012 04:48 McKTenor13 wrote: Mostly EG, FNatic, and TL speculations in this thread. Suprised not more Axiom. If they added 2 more players they'd have enough to compete in the league.
good they moved back to bo7 I suppose, considering 82% of the progamers were all for a bo7. They're format definitely is returning to something the players want, and that's good.
I wish spotv luck with their broadcasts and production quality.
I'm liking the theory on the RaidCall team because it makes so much sense. Considering most of fnatic and some of EG is in Korea, it makes sense geographically and financially.
On November 28 2012 05:28 Crow! wrote: I still have KeSPA on my boycott list after their shenanigans earlier this year. Thanks for the heads up on what not to watch.
In this industry, 1 (One) person is worthless... Alone, you don't matter at all. You have 0 value to them. Boycott them all you want. Your loss...
On November 28 2012 05:28 Crow! wrote: I still have KeSPA on my boycott list after their shenanigans earlier this year. Thanks for the heads up on what not to watch.
In this industry, 1 (One) person is worthless... Alone, you don't matter at all. You have 0 value to them. Boycott them all you want. Your loss...
its okay I will boycott gom to cancel crow out =p lol
On November 28 2012 05:43 LiLSighKoh wrote: I'm thinking it's EG. Incontrol said in his blog that there was big things coming up that EG will announce soon, so I'm sure it's EG!
Wow a foreign team in proleague! That's fucking huge o_O
I think EG could do well there, if they put like a lot of effort into it, but that would also mean no more other tournament for a while if they send all their players to korea.
Everyone is thinking EG... You know you need 7 players in Korea for a bo7... HuK, PuMa, and JYP =/= 7 players in Korea... and I doubt Stephano, DeMusliM, IdrA, and ThorZaIN are all going to stay in Korea just for this... ~_~
Maybe an EG partnership with another team, but not EG alone...
I think there are 3 possibilities 1. A foreign teams is going to make a big splash sometime soon so they can compete in proleague. Participating in proleague should bring in a lot of revenue. 2. 2 foreign teams participate as one team 3. The foreign team participate alone and get pwnd
The possibility of Fnatic and EG together in proleague would be pretty interesting. It sort of but not quite lends credence to my wish of a revived F.United. Though we won't know until the official announcement of whatever team will fill in Airforce ACE's spot.
On November 28 2012 07:28 Jack_ wrote: Could someone explain to me what is Winner League Format? Thanks
Just like GSTL, all kill format. They introduced winners league round several years ago, usually one round, with its own playoff. But winner league is not in the last hybrid proleague. I guess they are trying to make the hybrid one shorter.
It's been all but confirmed by fxo.boss that EG will be the foreigner team participating in Proleague, which is kinda bad. They've never had the most stellar teamleague performances, to put it mildly. Then again, they are Airforce ACE's replacement so... *shrugs*.
must be a dream for most of them to be able to participate in proleague
never in the 4 years of following starcraft would I imagine a foreign team being apart of it, who cares if they get crushed I am still going to watch lol
I hope ongamenet continues to broadcast the games with the game being bright. They did that for the hybrid league. Idk why other tourneys always casts it in the stupid gloomy dark way as in not very bright.
YAY PROLEAGUE! IDK who the foreign team is, but I imagine it will be tough since PL will last a whole year and playing would be rough unless the players live in Korea full time.
I'm actually quite happy that eSF players won't be in PL. It just makes it that much more special when eSF players and Kespa players DO eventually meet. It will happen in some way shape or form. It doesn't have to be right now! I liken it to Major League Baseball before Interleague play. I liked the fact that the World Series featured 2 teams that were the tops in their leagues that never played each other. I'm sure there will be a showdown eventually between the top GSTL team and the top PL team and when there is, it'll be that much more epic that if they were all playing in the same league while Kespa players are still developing. Just my 2 cents.
On November 28 2012 08:19 ChApFoU wrote: Epic fail by Kespa and eSF, now THAT is killing the korean SC2 scene :/
Did you really expect a merger coming within couple of months?
Unless they are both in big trouble, that won't happen. At least right now, they can both float, KeSPA with big companies to backup, eSF teams with foreign fans to support. Maybe one year later, everything will change.
How many players do you need on your team to actually be able to participate in PL? I'm going to guess that its 6, but I'm not sure. The question then is which foreign team has six Koreans, or six players willing to spend long periods of time in Korea in order to actually do this? Given that requirement, I think its more likely going to be Liquid. They already have four Koreans, and Ret and TLO have already spent long periods of time in Korea in the past. Sheth too even. Given that info, I really think its TL that's doing this. It could be EG too, but it would be a bit harder to get some of their guys to stay in Korea for so long, especially Stephano.
If it was EG, wouldn't they be in Korea in full practice mode right now? Seems like they are just chilling in the EG lair playing HotS the last week or so.
On November 28 2012 08:28 sharkie wrote: winners league? meh, so KT gets into playoffs again?
I mean, they'll probably make playoffs, but even with all-kill format I don't expect Flash to be insta-win...he'll probably average around two kills a match.
Whoa, revealing the matches from 1-6? Hmm...On another note, a one year long season seems pretty...uninteresting. Especially since a lot of Korean players will be leaving to go to foreign tournaments w/ the KeSPA-MLG thing going on, so a lot of the games may miss their key players.
If the foreign team turned out to be EG I would probably barf out of excitement, but I don't see EG picking up and moving to Korea, unfortunately.
The first round starts 3 days after my last day of classes, so I will be able to watch every single proleague game live for once =D. I honestly really wish they didn't have an english cast though, I really enjoyed listening to sayle's casts when i could catch them.
On November 28 2012 09:36 RiceAgainst wrote: Whoa, revealing the matches from 1-6? Hmm...On another note, a one year long season seems pretty...uninteresting. Especially since a lot of Korean players will be leaving to go to foreign tournaments w/ the KeSPA-MLG thing going on, so a lot of the games may miss their key players.
A lot of players make Proleague their first priority and if you haven't read the OP closely the schedule will be decided based on all the international tournaments and the Release of HoTS.
On November 28 2012 12:03 fuzzylogic44 wrote: A whole year is way too long, what are they thinking? Especially since it will switch to hots part way through? Just a strange idea.
But a foreign team participating has me in nerd chills.
Proleague is usually year long, except the hybrid one. They just changed the format back to couple years ago.
It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
People saying a year long league is boring have never followed PL before. PL is the best!
I'm not sure if people know that the maps are switched out every round or so, which definitely keeps the league feeling fresh. Along with format changes .
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Take EG and compare them to TL. Which team is more likely to do well in the long term. In the past year TL has had 5 total ro8 placings in the GSL and 1 ro4. EG has never made it this far. TL has had 3 different players in code s this year. EG has had 1 (2 if you include idra who was there just from a seed and won 0 matches) TL has had a 2 players in code s the last 4 seasons and still had one in it season 1 this year. TL has Taeja. Case closed whatever EG could do TL would easily be able to do and more. The important thing to remember is the Kespa teams will be improving fast. Beating them now is one thing but for whatever foreigner team it is to truly compete they need to be able to beat them down the road. TL has the best potential of any foreign team to do this. EG clearly does not. On a side not having Sea on the team could help them develop a better practice schedule similar to the Kespa teams. Just a thought.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Take EG and compare them to TL. Which team is more likely to do well in the long term. In the past year TL has had 5 total ro8 placings in the GSL and 1 ro4. EG has never made it this far. TL has had 3 different players in code s this year. EG has had 1 (2 if you include idra who was there just from a seed and won 0 matches) TL has had a 2 players in code s the last 4 seasons and still had one in it season 1 this year. TL has Taeja. Case closed whatever EG could do TL would easily be able to do and more. The important thing to remember is the Kespa teams will be improving fast. Beating them now is one thing but for whatever foreigner team it is to truly compete they need to be able to beat them down the road. TL has the best potential of any foreign team to do this. EG clearly does not. On a side not having Sea on the team could help them develop a better practice schedule similar to the Kespa teams. Just a thought.
lol you're going to say that EG has no chance, and back it up by stating why TL would do in proleague?
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Take EG and compare them to TL. Which team is more likely to do well in the long term. In the past year TL has had 5 total ro8 placings in the GSL and 1 ro4. EG has never made it this far. TL has had 3 different players in code s this year. EG has had 1 (2 if you include idra who was there just from a seed and won 0 matches) TL has had a 2 players in code s the last 4 seasons and still had one in it season 1 this year. TL has Taeja. Case closed whatever EG could do TL would easily be able to do and more. The important thing to remember is the Kespa teams will be improving fast. Beating them now is one thing but for whatever foreigner team it is to truly compete they need to be able to beat them down the road. TL has the best potential of any foreign team to do this. EG clearly does not. On a side not having Sea on the team could help them develop a better practice schedule similar to the Kespa teams. Just a thought.
I love TL and am a Big fan and I dont want this to be EG vs TL but player for player EG is better, Hero and taeja are liquids best players. Nony, ret and sheth are haven't done anything in a long time.
But in saying this Team League is completely different than 1v1GSl ect, take FXO as an example gumiho all kills IM and hoseo and isn't in Code S (as far as I know havent followed gsl in a bit)
I feel that the GOM teams would probably smash the KeSPA teams at this point. A lot of individual KeSPA players are making great strides, but overall their teams don't seem to have come quite as far.
Hope the level of StarCraft this season is much higher than it was last season (as I expect it will be). Wonder which foreign team will be participating, my heart is pulling for our boys in blue but I doubt it.
Thorzain did great with F-united in gstl ages ago, won 3 matches from memory. If EG pick up a naniwa or Kas or another strong foreigner I think they can do well.
If any team can hold there own I think it will be EG.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Idra didn't go 2-1 against Flash. He went 1-1. And it was cross-server play.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Take EG and compare them to TL. Which team is more likely to do well in the long term. In the past year TL has had 5 total ro8 placings in the GSL and 1 ro4. EG has never made it this far. TL has had 3 different players in code s this year. EG has had 1 (2 if you include idra who was there just from a seed and won 0 matches) TL has had a 2 players in code s the last 4 seasons and still had one in it season 1 this year. TL has Taeja. Case closed whatever EG could do TL would easily be able to do and more. The important thing to remember is the Kespa teams will be improving fast. Beating them now is one thing but for whatever foreigner team it is to truly compete they need to be able to beat them down the road. TL has the best potential of any foreign team to do this. EG clearly does not. On a side not having Sea on the team could help them develop a better practice schedule similar to the Kespa teams. Just a thought.
So basically, your point is that Liquid has Hero and Taeja and EG doesn't. Wow.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
2-1 against Flash in what league? If you're thinking MLG's MvP tournament, that was 1-1, not 2-1.
On November 28 2012 12:42 bourne117 wrote: It's looking like it will be EG which makes me really sad. TL was really the only team that could compete against the Kespa teams. If they were to really commit to it I think they could do really well. Especially when they already have Taeja and Hero. EG is no where near that quality of players right now.
EG may be able to compete, Idra did 2-0 Roro and go 2-1 against Flash in Proleague. I think they'll be able to compete but not win.
Take EG and compare them to TL. Which team is more likely to do well in the long term. In the past year TL has had 5 total ro8 placings in the GSL and 1 ro4. EG has never made it this far. TL has had 3 different players in code s this year. EG has had 1 (2 if you include idra who was there just from a seed and won 0 matches) TL has had a 2 players in code s the last 4 seasons and still had one in it season 1 this year. TL has Taeja. Case closed whatever EG could do TL would easily be able to do and more. The important thing to remember is the Kespa teams will be improving fast. Beating them now is one thing but for whatever foreigner team it is to truly compete they need to be able to beat them down the road. TL has the best potential of any foreign team to do this. EG clearly does not. On a side not having Sea on the team could help them develop a better practice schedule similar to the Kespa teams. Just a thought.
So basically, your point is that Liquid has Hero and Taeja and EG doesn't. Wow.
I also wonder if he realizes in proleague you can't rely on just 2 players in a bo7 format. You need 3 players minimum to win their games and then you could use hero/taeja a second time in the ace. I feel EG is better in that type of format, but TL is really good to so I dunno but yeah his post was really silly.
I think my point isn't getting across. I am saying that long term the kespa players will turn into extremely good players. They may not be there now but in a league that will last a year for whatever foreign team there is to actually compete against they need talent that can hold up throughout that year while the kespa players are improving quickly. I personally don't think EG has any players that can do this. They surely have players that can now but none that can really do it long term in my opinion. I think Hero and Taeja can do this. For either team to really compete though some new players would also be needed. Again just my opinion. Edit: Also how would EG be better in a team league format? Who on their team could get you consistent wins in lets say 3 months.
Did we all forget about Acer? MMA, Nerchio, Scarlet. However, if EG's mainstays pick it up a notch they'd do well with Thorzain and Stephano - Huk/Idra need to find their groove again.
On November 28 2012 14:15 Archaedious wrote: Did we all forget about Acer? MMA, Nerchio, Scarlet. However, if EG's mainstays pick it up a notch they'd do well with Thorzain and Stephano - Huk/Idra need to find their groove again.
Yeah but Scarlett and Nerchio aren't gonna live in Korea or travel there every week. And even with them, who else? Bly? You need at least 6.
Hey everyone. Just to add a few more details and corrections to everything directly from the source. If someone can update the OP that would be great.
The SK Planet Proleague will have 6 rounds as follows:
Schedule: Round 1 - Proleague format - December 8th -30th Round 2 - Winner's League (all-kill) format - TBD (calendar date's aren't set yet) Round 3 - Proleague format - TBD Round 4 - Proleague format - TBD Round 5 - Winner's League format - TBD Round 6 - Proleague format - TBD
Participating teams: KT Rolster Samsung Khan SK Telecom T1 CJ Entus STX Soul Woongjin Stars KeSPA Team Eight Ultra top secret foreign team (Announced on media day on December 4th!)
Match locations and weekly broadcast schedule: Saturday, Sunday - broadcast by Ongamenet (Yongsan Ipark Mall E-sport Stadium) Monday, Tuesday - broadcast by Spotv ( Shindorim Intel E-stadium)
Not sure how they'll have spectated matches at the Sindorim venue. It's not really made for it. I'll see what I can find out. This is the place GOMtv holds the Code A qualifiers.
Sorry for the lack of prompt info on OGN's part. I've been literally in the office every week grilling them about when I can release this stuff and they kept delaying. Now it's leaked by the Korean gaming sites though so I can go in and give them an "I told you do" when I get back. haha. They'll learn. Don't worry!
On November 28 2012 18:55 DoA wrote: Hey everyone. Just to add a few more details and corrections to everything directly from the source. If someone can update the OP that would be great.
The SK Planet Proleague will have 6 rounds as follows:
Schedule: Round 1 - Proleague format - December 8th -30th Round 2 - Winner's League (all-kill) format - TBD (calendar date's aren't set yet) Round 3 - Proleague format - TBD Round 4 - Proleague format - TBD Round 5 - Winner's League format - TBD Round 6 - Proleague format - TBD
Participating teams: KT Rolster Samsung Khan SK Telecom T1 CJ Entus STX Soul Woongjin Stars KeSPA Team Eight Ultra top secret foreign team (Announced on media day on December 4th!)
Match locations and weekly broadcast schedule: Saturday, Sunday - broadcast by Ongamenet (Yongsan Ipark Mall E-sport Stadium) Monday, Tuesday - broadcast by Spotv ( Shindorim Intel E-stadium)
Not sure how they'll have spectated matches at the Sindorim venue. It's not really made for it. I'll see what I can find out. This is the place GOMtv holds the Code A qualifiers.
Sorry for the lack of prompt info on OGN's part. I've been literally in the office every week grilling them about when I can release this stuff and they kept delaying. Now it's leaked by the Korean gaming sites though so I can go in and give them an "I told you do" when I get back. haha. They'll learn. Don't worry!
Thanks for the update Doa, carry on attempting to make OGN more communicative :D
Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
nvm I do now.
but you claim to be #1 KT fan.
I claim that title too.
I lost that title when the matchfixing scandal hit, you can have it haha. Glad to see people still remember me. Looking forward to this new season and hopefully being involved in the TL community again!
On November 28 2012 13:02 Vasoline73 wrote: People saying a year long league is boring have never followed PL before. PL is the best!
I'm not sure if people know that the maps are switched out every round or so, which definitely keeps the league feeling fresh. Along with format changes .
This is why I don't understand EG being the foreign team. You have to plop your team in Korea for a year, and then make the players learn new maps every round. Assuming the EG players still want to play at the other international tournaments all year as well, I don't see how this makes any of their results better. Players like Stephano who really just want to get into a weekend tournament to get into the prize pool I don't think are going to want to play a year long format league and learn maps they'll never play outside of it.
On November 28 2012 13:02 Vasoline73 wrote: People saying a year long league is boring have never followed PL before. PL is the best!
I'm not sure if people know that the maps are switched out every round or so, which definitely keeps the league feeling fresh. Along with format changes .
This is why I don't understand EG being the foreign team. You have to plop your team in Korea for a year, and then make the players learn new maps every round. Assuming the EG players still want to play at the other international tournaments all year as well, I don't see how this makes any of their results better. Players like Stephano who really just want to get into a weekend tournament to get into the prize pool I don't think are going to want to play a year long format league and learn maps they'll never play outside of it.
Their probably announcing new members. Also ThorZaIN said in a recent interview (in swedish) that he'll be returning to Korea at the end of this year. I feelt he also slightly hinted that there will be a new EG house over there.
everyone assuming already that is EG xDD well, im feeling right now that its just like the idra fever , whenever idra wins like 2 series in a tournament everyone hops into the idra train saying that he's the best player around and that the tournament is already in his pocket blah blah blah xD. Dont get me wrong... i would LOVE to see EG in PL but only time will tell maybe is just some chinese clan or a mixture of foreigners (that would be awesome too) (and btw im not an idra hater)
didn't they say before there was going to be an EG house in korea? EG has been quiet for quite some time, they might pick up a few players, also considering that some contracts are most likely coming to an end (usually last 1 year) might free up some cash for them
On November 29 2012 05:15 NbSky wrote: didn't they say before there was going to be an EG house in korea? EG has been quiet for quite some time, they might pick up a few players, also considering that some contracts are most likely coming to an end (usually last 1 year) might free up some cash for them
Yup, agreed. Pretty sure they'll have some pretty big news coming soon.
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
I doubt this will ever happen with the matchfixing scandal..
On November 28 2012 21:41 Hunterai wrote: TL + EG would be a dream comes true. We'd call it Team Genius, or Evil Liquid
ok, may be not Evil Liquid...
Must be Evil Liquid !
If this is so I demand that every time a Liquid player is picked to play he does some kind of ceremony to become "Evil" version ala Street Fighter before the game.
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
I doubt this will ever happen with the matchfixing scandal..
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
I doubt this will ever happen with the matchfixing scandal..
You're probably right.
You can still post it just the day before, though.
I don't understand all you EG/Liquid fans hoping for some kind of Liquid-EG merge, or any other merge for that matter. Don't you have some kind of pride in your team? There must be a reason you got stuck with the team you are supporting right? EG and Liquid are the biggest rivals when it comes to the foreigner scene, how could you wish to cheer for your rivals and share glory with them? Imagine if KT and SKT1 merged to play GSTL, how freaking lame that would be.
I don't think merges have any place in team leagues, and absolutely not in such a legit league as Proleague where every team have dedicated fanbases and the competition should be a 100% team effort, not having help from "standins" from some partnership with another team that contributes with 1-2 good players.
On November 29 2012 08:29 Gosi wrote: I don't understand all you EG/Liquid fans hoping for some kind of Liquid-EG merge, or any other merge for that matter. Don't you have some kind of pride in your team? There must be a reason you got stuck with the team you are supporting right? EG and Liquid are the biggest rivals when it comes to the foreigner scene, how could you wish to cheer for your rivals and share glory with them? Imagine if KT and SKT1 merged to play GSTL, how freaking lame that would be.
I don't think merges have any place in team leagues, and absolutely not in such a legit league as Proleague where every team have dedicated fanbases and the competition should be a 100% team effort, not having help from "standins" from some partnership with another team that contributes with 1-2 good players.
A lot of it is probably because team league are pretty much just a side thing in SCII, while they where a huge thing in BW. Hopefully at some point team leagues will increase in importance in SCII, though I see that as unlikely as long as the GSTL and PL are separate.
On November 29 2012 08:29 Gosi wrote: I don't understand all you EG/Liquid fans hoping for some kind of Liquid-EG merge, or any other merge for that matter. Don't you have some kind of pride in your team? There must be a reason you got stuck with the team you are supporting right? EG and Liquid are the biggest rivals when it comes to the foreigner scene, how could you wish to cheer for your rivals and share glory with them? Imagine if KT and SKT1 merged to play GSTL, how freaking lame that would be.
I don't think merges have any place in team leagues, and absolutely not in such a legit league as Proleague where every team have dedicated fanbases and the competition should be a 100% team effort, not having help from "standins" from some partnership with another team that contributes with 1-2 good players.
face it, there's not a lot of animosity towards popular players in SC2. there's a lot of EG fans who like Liquid players and vice versa.
people just don't know what actual devotion is to a team. they don't know what pure hatred means!
On November 28 2012 23:08 RainmanMP wrote: Here's hoping lineups are posted at the beginning of the week and I can post them like the good old days. Doubt many reading this remember me from back then, but I'll do it if that's the case.
I doubt this will ever happen with the matchfixing scandal..
You're probably right.
You can still post it just the day before, though.
If there's 4 days of games a week, that's either 4 lineup posts a week or 8 LR threads. I definitely won't be watching all the games and would be a horrible OP for an LR thread. And making a lineup thread for just 2 games 4 times a week may clog up the forums.
On November 27 2012 21:41 FXOBoSs wrote: Btw, to prove its not FXO, I will let you know we play on the 8th in the GSTL final, so unless leenock can run reallllllly fast.........
If I'm not mistaken, it seems like there will be a pre-season match in December 3, 7pm. The match is between SKT and KT.
It seems like the match will be broadcasted. So prepare you VLC at the time.
Also, they will use the BW-remake map.
Here is the players and maps (need translation but I know there are new map names): ▶ KT vs SK텔레콤 프리매치 대진표 1경기 오하나 고강민(저) vs 도재욱(프) 2경기 여명 김성대(저) vs 정영재(테) 3경기 데저트플라워 주성욱(프) vs 박령우(저) 4경기 안티가조선소 김대엽(프) vs 어윤수(저) 5경기 묻혀진계곡 박성균(테) vs 김택용(프) 6경기 알카노이드 임정현(저) vs 정명훈(테) 7경기 구름왕국 이영호(테) vs 정윤종(프)
1 오하나 HoeJJa[S.G](Z) vs BeSt(P) 2 여명 NsP_Action(Z) vs yeOngJae(T) 3 데Z트플라워 P7GAB(P) vs Dark(Z) 4 안티가组선소 Stats(P) vs n.Die_Soo(Z) 5 묻혀진계곡 Mind(T) vs Bisu(P) 6 Arkanoid Pro.NT_Hydra(Z) vs By.Fantasy(T) 7 구름왕국 Flash(T) vs Sun(P)
1 Ohana HoeJJa[S.G](Z) vs BeSt(P) 2 Daybreak NsP_Action(Z) vs yeOngJae(T) 3 Desert Flower P7GAB(P) vs Dark(Z) 4 Antiga Shipyard Stats(P) vs n.Die_Soo(Z) 5 Entomb valley Mind(T) vs Bisu(P) 6 Arkanoid Pro.NT_Hydra(Z) vs By.Fantasy(T) 7 Cloud Kingdom Flash(T) vs Sun(P)
On November 29 2012 21:18 bgx wrote: Grack is back in proleague? FUCK YEA
Has he been there before?
He was on CJ, not sure if he ever played but he was on a proleague team.
He never played in any official KeSPA matches(Proleague, OSL and MSL), only several Gom Classic series, got eliminated very early, don't know if he won any of those series. Remember he played tossgirl once in Gom.
On November 29 2012 21:18 bgx wrote: Grack is back in proleague? FUCK YEA
Has he been there before?
He was on CJ, not sure if he ever played but he was on a proleague team.
He never played in any official KeSPA matches(Proleague, OSL and MSL), only several Gom Classic series, got eliminated very early, don't know if he won any of those series. Remember he played tossgirl once in Gom.
I Remember him playin Trap, the one that is now in GSL :p
On November 29 2012 21:18 bgx wrote: Grack is back in proleague? FUCK YEA
Has he been there before?
He was on CJ, not sure if he ever played but he was on a proleague team.
He never did.
He was making great strides on the b-team apparently and probably would have got called up if he stuck with it but with SC2 coming he decided it was time to conquer the game.
Anyone's guess.
Anyway, props to another Hexatron Dream Team but those boys better get serious about the game fast and bring in more fresh meat to beef up the lineup or else they won't do very well.
Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
Think Bisu can pull it off?
already been done
Why dont people do it more often?
usually vikings by that time
But the vkings cannot shoot down collo AND WPs though. If they are shooting at the WPs, then that is more free shots collo can get.
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
Think Bisu can pull it off?
already been done
Why dont people do it more often?
usually vikings by that time
But the vkings cannot shoot down collo AND WPs though. If they are shooting at the WPs, then that is more free shots collo can get.
There are more neat little tricks I am not seeing as much as I want. Like why are smart Zergs not contaminating forge upgrades / immortal (colo, whatever) production / anything key to victory really? When two weeks ago Leenock used contaminate like that at MLG that was the moment I felt my broken passion back for a few moments.
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
Think Bisu can pull it off?
I think that any programer can do it but it's too risky to be done often. It's not like the reaver micro, you have to land a good storm to make it work otherwise it's useless. With the reaver you "just" had to wait and see where the missil was going.
On November 29 2012 21:18 bgx wrote: Grack is back in proleague? FUCK YEA
Has he been there before?
He was on CJ, not sure if he ever played but he was on a proleague team.
He never did.
He was making great strides on the b-team apparently and probably would have got called up if he stuck with it but with SC2 coming he decided it was time to conquer the game.
Anyone's guess.
Anyway, props to another Hexatron Dream Team but those boys better get serious about the game fast and bring in more fresh meat to beef up the lineup or else they won't do very well.
Err no. He wasn't doing well in b-team last time I checked.
On November 29 2012 15:05 larse wrote: 1 Ohana HoeJJa[S.G](Z) vs BeSt(P) 2 Daybreak NsP_Action(Z) vs yeOngJae(T) 3 Desert Flower P7GAB(P) vs Dark(Z) 4 Antiga Shipyard Stats(P) vs n.Die_Soo(Z) 5 Entomb valley Mind(T) vs Bisu(P) 6 Arkanoid Pro.NT_Hydra(Z) vs By.Fantasy(T) 7 Cloud Kingdom Flash(T) vs Sun(P)
I really hope they bring back the ace match after this show match. Getting rid of it was one of the many things that led to me watching less pro league.
On November 29 2012 15:05 larse wrote: 1 Ohana HoeJJa[S.G](Z) vs BeSt(P) 2 Daybreak NsP_Action(Z) vs yeOngJae(T) 3 Desert Flower P7GAB(P) vs Dark(Z) 4 Antiga Shipyard Stats(P) vs n.Die_Soo(Z) 5 Entomb valley Mind(T) vs Bisu(P) 6 Arkanoid Pro.NT_Hydra(Z) vs By.Fantasy(T) 7 Cloud Kingdom Flash(T) vs Sun(P)
I really hope they bring back the ace match after this show match. Getting rid of it was one of the many things that led to me watching less pro league.
+1
Ace match is always exciting to watch.
Ace vs Ace (Best!) Sniper vs Ace (depending on the sniper, can sometimes be a lolfail) Sniper vs Sniper (unpredictable)
On December 01 2012 02:59 Bareleon wrote: Do you think it will be epic if a toss can load up HTs in WPs so they dont get killed by ghosts or emped, fly the WPs around to the back of a terran army, the collo/zlot/stalker army attacks from the front, and storm from the back?
On December 04 2012 00:17 illidanx wrote: It is December 4th in Korea now and no announcement?
Are you serious?
a little over 12:15 AM in korea.
there will be a proper media event in the morning.
Are you telling me you dont know yet?
There are many korean pro gamers who know this. I asked this already almost a week ago from 3 different streamers in chat, and they all revealed the awsner.
On December 04 2012 00:17 illidanx wrote: It is December 4th in Korea now and no announcement?
Are you serious?
a little over 12:15 AM in korea.
there will be a proper media event in the morning.
Are you telling me you dont know yet?
There are many korean pro gamers who know this. I asked this already almost a week ago from 3 different streamers in chat, and they all revealed the awsner.
On December 04 2012 00:17 illidanx wrote: It is December 4th in Korea now and no announcement?
Are you serious?
a little over 12:15 AM in korea.
there will be a proper media event in the morning.
Are you telling me you dont know yet?
There are many korean pro gamers who know this. I asked this already almost a week ago from 3 different streamers in chat, and they all revealed the awsner.
lol
"I asked in chat and found how, how can you possibly not know the answer?" Don't need to be a dick. Either tell him or don't post at all.
On December 04 2012 00:17 illidanx wrote: It is December 4th in Korea now and no announcement?
Are you serious?
a little over 12:15 AM in korea.
there will be a proper media event in the morning.
Are you telling me you dont know yet?
There are many korean pro gamers who know this. I asked this already almost a week ago from 3 different streamers in chat, and they all revealed the awsner.
lol
"I asked in chat and found how, how can you possibly not know the answer?" Don't need to be a dick. Either tell him or don't post at all.
Dude he knows top secret information.
Wouldn't you brag too if you had in-depth knowledge of korean secrets?
On November 29 2012 21:18 bgx wrote: Grack is back in proleague? FUCK YEA
Has he been there before?
He was on CJ, not sure if he ever played but he was on a proleague team.
He never did.
He was making great strides on the b-team apparently and probably would have got called up if he stuck with it but with SC2 coming he decided it was time to conquer the game.
Anyone's guess.
Anyway, props to another Hexatron Dream Team but those boys better get serious about the game fast and bring in more fresh meat to beef up the lineup or else they won't do very well.
Err no. He wasn't doing well in b-team last time I checked.
Near the end I thought everyone was going on about how IdrA was doing well in their inner rankings right before the switch?
In either case, their A-Team was incredibly stacked at that time, but it's been a long time since we've seen a foreigner playing in PL and foreigners are good for ratings.
there is a news conference in korea at 4pm to answer all questions. That is about 9 hours from now. It is near hongdae. The friday night exhibition is more of a dress rehearsal. I dont know if that will be aired or even open to the public at the stadium. Regardless I am getting very excited!
On December 04 2012 07:15 yaletown wrote: there is a news conference in korea at 4pm to answer all questions. That is about 9 hours from now. It is near hongdae. The friday night exhibition is more of a dress rehearsal. I dont know if that will be aired or even open to the public at the stadium. Regardless I am getting very excited!
Great, I will wake up tomorrow with a good news for breakfast !
On December 04 2012 00:17 illidanx wrote: It is December 4th in Korea now and no announcement?
Are you serious?
a little over 12:15 AM in korea.
there will be a proper media event in the morning.
Are you telling me you dont know yet?
There are many korean pro gamers who know this. I asked this already almost a week ago from 3 different streamers in chat, and they all revealed the awsner.
On December 04 2012 15:34 mtn wrote: Any info yet?
Nothing yet as far as I can tell. Maybe TL will just surprise us with a big news post after the event is done. Its a shame they didn't announce that they were going to do coverage though and give us a specific time for the start of the event. Could have built TONS of hype.
On December 04 2012 15:34 mtn wrote: Any info yet?
Nothing yet as far as I can tell. Maybe TL will just surprise us with a big news post after the event is done. Its a shame they didn't announce that they were going to do coverage though and give us a specific time for the start of the event. Could have built TONS of hype.
Its so odd. There doesn't seem to be live coverage anywhere. Not on Fomos, TiG, Daily Esports, TL, or ESFI... You'd think that for something this big there would be a lot of hype and coverage.
TES TES YES YESYEYSEYSEYSEY WIHEOAWHGAWHGOAWHGOWAGIAWHGOAWGHOAWGHWAIOGOAWJFAW OMG I BEEN CALLING OT FOR THE LOGNEST TIME YES OMG YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YESSSSSSSSSS
Okay proleague just became a must watch for me. Can someone fill me in on a few details? I used to watch through Sayles stream, is there going to be an online stream, or do ihave to watch it through VLC like Sayle did? Also, will the season cost money? Will the VODs cost money? Will there BE vods?
I assume that a full article will come out soon with the rest of the details for Proleague, not just the TL+EG partnership. I'm eagerly waiting for details about schedules and map pools.
On December 04 2012 17:01 eviltomahawk wrote: I assume that a full article will come out soon with the rest of the details for Proleague, not just the TL+EG partnership. I'm eagerly waiting for details about schedules and map pools.
As you can see, DeMuslim and an unknown player are on the list, just commented out. If you don't believe, just view the source yourself (ctrl+u on most browsers)
On December 04 2012 16:49 Pwere wrote: The two ??? players are DeMusliM and someone they do not have the picture of yet. Most likely Ganzi, or possibly Byul.
DeMusliM might not be 100% yet; his name and pictures are ready to be shown, but are currently commented out.
On December 04 2012 16:49 Pwere wrote: The two ??? players are DeMusliM and someone they do not have the picture of yet. Most likely Ganzi, or possibly Byul.
DeMusliM might not be 100% yet; his name and pictures are ready to be shown, but are currently commented out.
On December 04 2012 18:39 JazVM wrote: Why no Taeja and no Hero? I mean they could be the unknown players but why announce them later in the first place?
The EG announcement deals solely with the players they are bringing. Hero-Taeja-Zenio-Sea will be representing Liquid
On December 04 2012 18:39 JazVM wrote: Why no Taeja and no Hero? I mean they could be the unknown players but why announce them later in the first place?
The EG announcement deals solely with the players they are bringing. Hero-Taeja-Zenio-Sea will be representing Liquid
Doesn't the EG announcement deserve it's own thread?
I came on TL saw the alliance and thought oh nice, thats cool there joining together in the proleague nice. I had no clue until i went on there website that they have;
A New Korean House - The Lab A Korean Coach; Who used to be SKT1's old coach?! A new Player to be announced Sending IDRA AND STEPHANO!? To Korea for ProLeague..AND other Korean Tournament (GSL and OSL probably..SO SICK)
Also, there living next door to IncridbleMiracle?! How sick is that xD
Personally think it should of got it's own thread on that basis, oh well.
How does picking these 6 players work? I still don't know. Do the coaches take turns, or just blindly say: 1. Player 2. Player... 6. Player and send them to the organizers who then announce what are the resulting six pairs of players? The latter seems most likely, but then I think it doesn't have much strategy and sniper-targeting in it. You just arrange 6 players and cross your fingers that they happen to match opponents that are good for them. Whereas, otherwise there are snipers who prepare for a specific (great) player and when the opponents send that player out, the sniper is sent to kill him. It makes team strategy that more powerful, just great names won't carry you to success.
How does picking these 6 players work? I still don't know. Do the coaches take turns, or just blindly say: 1. Player 2. Player... 6. Player and send them to the organizers who then announce what are the resulting six pairs of players? The latter seems most likely, but then I think it doesn't have much strategy and sniper-targeting in it. You just arrange 6 players and cross your fingers that they happen to match opponents that are good for them. Whereas, otherwise there are snipers who prepare for a specific (great) player and when the opponents send that player out, the sniper is sent to kill him. It makes team strategy that more powerful, just great names won't carry you to success.
Well, the "revealing" system was used before the Savior MatchFixing Scandal (It was changed because the matchfixing was easier). As I remember, it was "blind". Each team choose a player for each map without know the enemy player.
On December 05 2012 02:45 sitromit wrote: So since this tournament will last a very long time, will they stick to WoL the whole time, or switch to HotS at some point, I wonder.
Switch to HotS, they mention consideration of HotS dates in the OP. First round is this December, and then probably before HotS there will be one or two more rounds. So 2-3 rounds pre-HotS and 3-4 rounds and playoffs after HotS, most likely.
EPT
) Hurray!
Can't wait to see it
![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/2ugkw0w.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/disciple/flashposter2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cQz5T.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://proleague.evilgeniuses.net/img/players_sprite.png){kind=icon}
