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Active: 6412 users

Crank and MMA's accounts regarding SlayerS - Page 100

Forum Index > SC2 General
2299 CommentsPost a Reply
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hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
October 24 2012 05:10 GMT
#1981


further cements the truth.
dsousa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1363 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:14:52
October 24 2012 05:10 GMT
#1982
On October 24 2012 14:01 Xiaopewpew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 13:56 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:53 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:42 bduddy wrote:
I'm not really invested in either side, so before jumping to conclusions I would like to know: Why did Jessica refuse the sponsorship? Did she think it was too little, did it conflict with one of Slayers' sponsors, was it a miscommunication of some kind, or what? Although I agree that she has not proven herself to be a good manager, she doesn't seem like she would just reject this sponsorship out of spite or whatever. Yet again, everyone should wait for the other side of the story before jumping to conclusions and rushing to attack the "other side"...


Exactly!


She rejected it because she ALSO wanted it for Boxer.... and she was using MMA to get Boxer the great sponsorship as well. She was using it as a negotiation ploy.

She gambled with MMA's sponsorship to try and get Boxer one too.

But thats me jumping to conclusions again Take it for what its worth.


Ok , so Razor logic is that if we cant sponsor MMA, all the money to Boxer !!! hmmmmm interesting. Explain your thought process please?


No, this was a personal sponsorship. A seperate deal Probably at some forgeign event, like MLG, Razer had 5000 to sponsor a certain player for a period of time (likely the duration of the tournement)

They decided MMA was the man to sponsor, and they went to Slayers about that.

Slayers responded with, no, we'll take it only if you also offer the deal to Boxer.

Razer said they couldn't do that

They walked away from that.

My point on why this is such bad management, is not that they "negotiated" ... its that they didn't go back to razer and save the deal for MMA.

If you have a customer that wants to buy... and your cost of good sold are $0. You should get some money out of it. IMO.

Irregardless of the details. She rejected a cash off for a $0 cost good. (based on the tweets)

Maybe there are times that is smart...... but maybe she wasn't motivated to close the deal.

I would suspect they thought MMA getting the sponsorship without Boxer getting it would make Boxer look bad in some eyes.
Xiaopewpew
Profile Joined October 2012
China57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:14:23
October 24 2012 05:13 GMT
#1983
On October 24 2012 14:10 dsousa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:01 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:56 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:53 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:42 bduddy wrote:
I'm not really invested in either side, so before jumping to conclusions I would like to know: Why did Jessica refuse the sponsorship? Did she think it was too little, did it conflict with one of Slayers' sponsors, was it a miscommunication of some kind, or what? Although I agree that she has not proven herself to be a good manager, she doesn't seem like she would just reject this sponsorship out of spite or whatever. Yet again, everyone should wait for the other side of the story before jumping to conclusions and rushing to attack the "other side"...


Exactly!


She rejected it because she ALSO wanted it for Boxer.... and she was using MMA to get Boxer the great sponsorship as well. She was using it as a negotiation ploy.

She gambled with MMA's sponsorship to try and get Boxer one too.

But thats me jumping to conclusions again Take it for what its worth.


Ok , so Razor logic is that if we cant sponsor MMA, all the money to Boxer !!! hmmmmm interesting. Explain your thought process please?


No, this was a personal sponsorship. A seperate deal Probably at some forgeign event, like MLG, Razer had 5000 to sponsor a certain player for a period of time (likely the duration of the tournement)

They decided MMA was the man to sponsor, and they went to Slayers about that.

Slayers responded with, no, we'll take it only if you also offer the deal to Boxer.

Razer said they couldn't do that

They walked away from that.

My point on why this is such bad management, is not that they "negotiated" ... its that they didn't go back to razer and save the deal for MMA.

If you have a customer that wants to buy... and your cost of good sold are $0. You should get some money out of it. IMO.

Irregardless of the details. She rejected a cash off for a $0 cost good. (based on the tweets)

Maybe there are times that is smart...... but maybe she wasn't motivated to close the deal.

Looks bad....


I agree that the scenario you described would mean Jessica did something very wrong. I joined the discussion only tonight. Would you mind showing me the full account of the sponsorship ? I do not seem to be able to find it online. Which page of posts is it roughly in please?
我擦,搞什么搞啊
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
October 24 2012 05:19 GMT
#1984
On October 24 2012 13:58 dsousa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 13:55 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:47 dsousa wrote:
Razer wants to give MMA money for simply doing what he does..... Jessica rejects it because they won't also give the deal to Boxer.

Bad management is bad at managing.

Its not like a sponsorship requires anything in return.... all MMA would have had to do was accept cash and continue to play SC2.

So bad.

Its hilarious that someone who mismanaged the team so badly would also mismanage her exit and misjudge the situation.

This is all self inflicted by Jessica...... and she's so deserving of it.


Sponsors require nothing in return ? It is not charity kiddo. You gonna wear the logo and you cannot receive sponsorship from his competitors ! Joke


The point is the sponsorship would COST Slayers nothing.... except the stitching costs on his jersey. Why reject it? Sewing on a logo is cheap.

Exactly ... and she could have added a clause to the contract that basically says "If a competitor of company R wants to sponsor the team and MMA is still part of Slayers, then the contract has to end." So all the nonsense about rejecting it because she hopes for a competitor to sponsor the team is stupid. If company R didnt agree to such a clause she might have been right to reject it, but since she didnt mention it it didnt happen and she refused it out of spite to hurt MMA. Either way she loses!

On October 24 2012 14:01 Xiaopewpew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 13:56 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:53 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:42 bduddy wrote:
I'm not really invested in either side, so before jumping to conclusions I would like to know: Why did Jessica refuse the sponsorship? Did she think it was too little, did it conflict with one of Slayers' sponsors, was it a miscommunication of some kind, or what? Although I agree that she has not proven herself to be a good manager, she doesn't seem like she would just reject this sponsorship out of spite or whatever. Yet again, everyone should wait for the other side of the story before jumping to conclusions and rushing to attack the "other side"...


Exactly!


She rejected it because she ALSO wanted it for Boxer.... and she was using MMA to get Boxer the great sponsorship as well. She was using it as a negotiation ploy.

She gambled with MMA's sponsorship to try and get Boxer one too.

But thats me jumping to conclusions again Take it for what its worth.


Ok , so Razor logic is that if we cant sponsor MMA, all the money to Boxer !!! hmmmmm interesting. Explain your thought process please?

Umm ... you misunderstood him IMO. He wasnt saying that "all the money to Boxer" but rather "the same amount of money to Boxer too". That is quite different and entirely logical.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
October 24 2012 05:21 GMT
#1985
Hm.. That's surprising. Could anyone translate these for me (roughly), pretty please?

크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다


크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요


이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요


These are Jessicas last tweets (and i guess, they kinda answer to that Issue). I want to at least hear that, before i am deeply disappointed.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:24:14
October 24 2012 05:22 GMT
#1986
Guys, as much as black and white would be fun, it's far more likely that Manager J mistranslated the offer for Jessica (on purpose?) and led Jessica to reject it, because she thought the terms were preposterous or something. Both sides actually claim to have copies of the email (and the translation, apparently), so Jessica can't release something Razer doesn't already have.

Wait. Shit. That's black and white too, just with Manager J firmly in the black ...

To clarify: The proposal was rejected. but i dont know how it's been translated by "Manager J". Both were copied.

He clarifies and says Jessica also rejected it directly (assuming from her own email). That does not mean Manager J was not involved.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
October 24 2012 05:23 GMT
#1987
On October 24 2012 14:08 bduddy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
https://twitter.com/MitchellChris

"To clarify: The proposal was rejected by Jessica, but i dont know how it's been translated by "Manager J". Both were copied."
"



Goro Shigeno ‏@Goro87
@MitchellChris Oh boy now there's opening a can of worms. Rejected by who, manager J or Jessica? That ? is a key part of drama.
Chris Mitchell ‏@MitchellChris
@Goro87 Jessica.

@MitchellChris @Goro87 Jessica DIRECTLY? Or someone acting on her/slayers management's behalf?

Chris Mitchell ‏@MitchellChris
@SaintSnorlax @Goro87 Directly, although god knows how my English was translated to Korean."
So basically it was supposedly rejected by Jessica, but actually manager J was acting as an intermediary. So if he was really as shady as Jessica claims, then...?


Was it really manager J acting as translator? This makes a big deal, and what I was talking about that the explanation was too vague. Makes it even more vague if the conversations were email conversations because it becomes impossible to verify who was 'talking'. Even if it was really Jessica, she can just find an excuse out of this.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8255 Posts
October 24 2012 05:24 GMT
#1988
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)
ImNightmare
Profile Joined May 2012
1575 Posts
October 24 2012 05:24 GMT
#1989
On October 24 2012 14:21 m4inbrain wrote:
Hm.. That's surprising. Could anyone translate these for me (roughly), pretty please?

Show nested quote +
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다


Show nested quote +
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요


Show nested quote +
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요


These are Jessicas last tweets (and i guess, they kinda answer to that Issue). I want to at least hear that, before i am deeply disappointed.

Would be nice to have seeker here, that guy is so important.. He is the like the subs of korean variety shows, and that is saying how important he is.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
October 24 2012 05:25 GMT
#1990
Hmm who is manager J? any one got a link?
Rillanon.au
Xiaopewpew
Profile Joined October 2012
China57 Posts
October 24 2012 05:25 GMT
#1991
On October 24 2012 14:19 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 13:58 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:55 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:47 dsousa wrote:
Razer wants to give MMA money for simply doing what he does..... Jessica rejects it because they won't also give the deal to Boxer.

Bad management is bad at managing.

Its not like a sponsorship requires anything in return.... all MMA would have had to do was accept cash and continue to play SC2.

So bad.

Its hilarious that someone who mismanaged the team so badly would also mismanage her exit and misjudge the situation.

This is all self inflicted by Jessica...... and she's so deserving of it.


Sponsors require nothing in return ? It is not charity kiddo. You gonna wear the logo and you cannot receive sponsorship from his competitors ! Joke


The point is the sponsorship would COST Slayers nothing.... except the stitching costs on his jersey. Why reject it? Sewing on a logo is cheap.

Exactly ... and she could have added a clause to the contract that basically says "If a competitor of company R wants to sponsor the team and MMA is still part of Slayers, then the contract has to end." So all the nonsense about rejecting it because she hopes for a competitor to sponsor the team is stupid. If company R didnt agree to such a clause she might have been right to reject it, but since she didnt mention it it didnt happen and she refused it out of spite to hurt MMA. Either way she loses!

Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:01 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:56 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:53 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:42 bduddy wrote:
I'm not really invested in either side, so before jumping to conclusions I would like to know: Why did Jessica refuse the sponsorship? Did she think it was too little, did it conflict with one of Slayers' sponsors, was it a miscommunication of some kind, or what? Although I agree that she has not proven herself to be a good manager, she doesn't seem like she would just reject this sponsorship out of spite or whatever. Yet again, everyone should wait for the other side of the story before jumping to conclusions and rushing to attack the "other side"...


Exactly!


She rejected it because she ALSO wanted it for Boxer.... and she was using MMA to get Boxer the great sponsorship as well. She was using it as a negotiation ploy.

She gambled with MMA's sponsorship to try and get Boxer one too.

But thats me jumping to conclusions again Take it for what its worth.


Ok , so Razor logic is that if we cant sponsor MMA, all the money to Boxer !!! hmmmmm interesting. Explain your thought process please?

Umm ... you misunderstood him IMO. He wasnt saying that "all the money to Boxer" but rather "the same amount of money to Boxer too". That is quite different and entirely logical.


Thanks for clearing things up. I question though if any sponsor would agree to a clause like " if competitor steps in , i will pull out" :D
我擦,搞什么搞啊
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
October 24 2012 05:25 GMT
#1992
On October 24 2012 14:24 geokilla wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)


Dafuq? Seriously?

Just a second, did i get it right? Manager J deliberately tried to fuck up?

lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
October 24 2012 05:25 GMT
#1993
On October 24 2012 14:24 geokilla wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)


Was just about to post this.

See bros, don't jump to conclusions.

Still a pretty fucked up story though
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:28:15
October 24 2012 05:27 GMT
#1994
On October 24 2012 14:25 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:24 geokilla wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)


Was just about to post this.

See bros, don't jump to conclusions.

Still a pretty fucked up story though


Some people here look pretty stupid right now. And it's for once not Jessica, but Manager J. I even pointed at him a couple of hours ago (not literally)

Edit: still, i would love to see what Jessica wrote, and both responses from Razer Korea, just to see the correlation. Waxangel, to the rescue?
mongmong
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)1389 Posts
October 24 2012 05:28 GMT
#1995
Why did chris mitchel say it was rejected by jessica????

어헣 ↗ 어헣 ↗
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
October 24 2012 05:29 GMT
#1996
On October 24 2012 14:25 Xiaopewpew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:19 Rabiator wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:58 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:55 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:47 dsousa wrote:
Razer wants to give MMA money for simply doing what he does..... Jessica rejects it because they won't also give the deal to Boxer.

Bad management is bad at managing.

Its not like a sponsorship requires anything in return.... all MMA would have had to do was accept cash and continue to play SC2.

So bad.

Its hilarious that someone who mismanaged the team so badly would also mismanage her exit and misjudge the situation.

This is all self inflicted by Jessica...... and she's so deserving of it.


Sponsors require nothing in return ? It is not charity kiddo. You gonna wear the logo and you cannot receive sponsorship from his competitors ! Joke


The point is the sponsorship would COST Slayers nothing.... except the stitching costs on his jersey. Why reject it? Sewing on a logo is cheap.

Exactly ... and she could have added a clause to the contract that basically says "If a competitor of company R wants to sponsor the team and MMA is still part of Slayers, then the contract has to end." So all the nonsense about rejecting it because she hopes for a competitor to sponsor the team is stupid. If company R didnt agree to such a clause she might have been right to reject it, but since she didnt mention it it didnt happen and she refused it out of spite to hurt MMA. Either way she loses!

On October 24 2012 14:01 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:56 dsousa wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:53 Xiaopewpew wrote:
On October 24 2012 13:42 bduddy wrote:
I'm not really invested in either side, so before jumping to conclusions I would like to know: Why did Jessica refuse the sponsorship? Did she think it was too little, did it conflict with one of Slayers' sponsors, was it a miscommunication of some kind, or what? Although I agree that she has not proven herself to be a good manager, she doesn't seem like she would just reject this sponsorship out of spite or whatever. Yet again, everyone should wait for the other side of the story before jumping to conclusions and rushing to attack the "other side"...


Exactly!


She rejected it because she ALSO wanted it for Boxer.... and she was using MMA to get Boxer the great sponsorship as well. She was using it as a negotiation ploy.

She gambled with MMA's sponsorship to try and get Boxer one too.

But thats me jumping to conclusions again Take it for what its worth.


Ok , so Razor logic is that if we cant sponsor MMA, all the money to Boxer !!! hmmmmm interesting. Explain your thought process please?

Umm ... you misunderstood him IMO. He wasnt saying that "all the money to Boxer" but rather "the same amount of money to Boxer too". That is quite different and entirely logical.


Thanks for clearing things up. I question though if any sponsor would agree to a clause like " if competitor steps in , i will pull out" :D

Well eSports is a relatively small corner of the world with only a few competitors for each category of hardware. So it would be reasonable IMO to accept such a clause simply because "being the bully" is actually bad publicity.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
October 24 2012 05:29 GMT
#1997
On October 24 2012 14:24 geokilla wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)


Whole thing makes no sense. Why would Chris Mitchell say it was rejected directly by Jessica if she never knew about it.
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:30:59
October 24 2012 05:29 GMT
#1998
On October 24 2012 13:43 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
Did Jessica directly (as in, she herself) reject the sponsorship, or did someone from SlayerS management (possibly J? or someone else) reject the offer according to her (supposed) directions? Seriously if people are going to be releasing info they need to be absolutely clear so there aren't any loopholes.

Read the tweet. It was asked who rejected it, Jessica or J? The response was Jessica.

Could it be... that J stands for "Jessica"?

DUN DUN DUNNNN.

Edit: The joke lost its luster as the Razer Korea rep posted his insights.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
October 24 2012 05:30 GMT
#1999
On October 24 2012 14:29 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 14:24 geokilla wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377665&currentpage=3#48

Razer|MidNight ‏@Razer_MidNight
@SlayerS_Jessica Razer Korea 김준희입니다. 이 부분은 저희 본사 이스포츠팀 크리스과 슬레이어스 J매니져 사이에서 발생한 일이며, J매니저가 악의를 가지고 구단주인 김가연씨에게 저희 제안을 전달하지 않은 것으로 확인 되었습니다.

Translation: This is Kim, Joon Hee from Razer Korea. Razer headquarters have confirmed that this deal occured between Chris Mitchell and Manager J but Manager J, out of ill intent, deliberately kept it hidden from former owner of Slayers, Kim, Ja Yeon (Jessica)


Whole thing makes no sense. Why would Chris Mitchell say it was rejected directly by Jessica if she never knew about it.


He also said that he did not speak to her but to a translator.
JAWS_
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil61 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 05:31:45
October 24 2012 05:30 GMT
#2000
Chris Mitchell said he dealed with Jessica directly, this is just her lying again and twisting the truth.

Also Jessica can understand English even though she can't speak much, don't you guys try to think she was indeed clueless
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