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Yeah, the statement is weaksause. They didn't refute any of Fuzer's claims.
About the contract situation, Krupowies said to ESFI, “We spoke a few weeks ago and it was my first attempt when I tried to sign a contract with him. We found some mistakes in it and he wanted us to change them - so we did it. After showing him the correct contract he still had a lot of objections...he wanted to consult it with his lawyer, and we agreed to that. We just wanted to see [the lawyer’s] license - we requested that to be sent on our e-mail. Nothing ever appeared, so we wanted [Fuzer] to sign the contract, and he declined.”
So when did MoW show Fuzer the correct contract? How long between MoW ask for lawyer's license (Why would it matter? since Fuzer just another pair of eyes on a contract, something more people should do. But that's a separate issue.) and ultimatum? If it was a week, then it's reasonable, if it was like two days, then not.
And the stuff about house cleaning is just lame. He might not be cleanest tenant but that have absolutely nothing to do with this.
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Iam so hard on Fuzers side. You dont give him the money back because there is no contract(u also dont dispute that u have da money) ? In my opinion u are a really bad businessman... I mean the damage is done - not a smart move to post a 4 line discussion where u offer 2 options (war or money LOL).
Respect to Fuzer, in ladder hes a cheesy idiot, so i dont have any sympathy for him - but i comprehend his moves here 100 %.
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Stupidly biased reporting by ESFIWorld.
Krupowies showed ESFI a Skype log that had him offering Fuzer the refund of the second month’s fee, but that Fuzer declined to accept it.
We can finish this in a normal way - with sending the money and disperse peacefully or start a war, you can choose.
Nice dodge, until MoW shot themselves in the foot by showing that it wasn't an offer, but a fucking THREAT.
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On September 13 2012 08:42 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:40 Sapphire.lux wrote:On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote:
the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public. This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue. Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive. He said he was willing to return the money and fuzer said he wanted war and didn't accept it...
Yes, he said it AFTER Fuzer first released the update on his facebook profile thinking about telling what happened between him and MoW.
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Wait. I went to take a shower and MoW is now smearing Fuzer? What happened?
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So I read almost the whole thread now and my conclusion is:
That MoW Boss seems to be very unprofessional^^
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On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day 
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
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On September 13 2012 08:43 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ Well MoW isn't wrong. They are not forcing players to stream 4 hours a day... but 5.
15 hour sessions gogo^^. Seriously that's sick amount of hours only for streaming. Then you need play online cups, play customs too and watch vods/replays. It is like forced 10+ hours of starcraft 2 every day, which is just ridiculous
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On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
Oh god... seriously.
Think about this: it took you over 3 hours to provide a statement. Said statement contains "we keep contracts confidential". Simultaneously you work with a 3rd party and basically acknowledge a statement about a contract (already stretching your own press release).
And then within 30min after your own press release you shit on your own press release and release some parts of the contract.
Do you honestly think that is good business practice? Sure it's your own business so who am I to tell you, but you dont have any alarm bells rinning? Or people telling you internally "That might be a bad idea / look unprofessional".
Honestly, judging from the whole story I think you're correct and in the right (except maybe the lawyer credential parts) as you can (from my perspective) put all what you want in the contract (as long as it's not against any laws^^) and since you already acknowledged that it was bad to have him in the house without signing the contract. But the way you handle this press release stuff....
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United States3294 Posts
Wow what a terrible pr response from these guys. They claims to be super professional and be all about good training but they don't offer either ROFL. Joke house.
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Wait, I've read a good deal more into this than I cared to as my train was 2 hours late >.> This new press release with a statement from Desrow saying that SjoW was going to come? How the fuck long ago was that taken from, there's no way in hell it's within the past week as SjoW has been there for over a week now...
This doesn't add up, especially after talking with a few of the players that have stayed with MoW. Whatever was in the contract, it kicked up a hornets nest and there's no way that MoW can get out of this with a reputation close to what they had prior to this ordeal.
I love how they bring up that they offered the money hours AFTER Fuzer made the post, what a shameful business approach. Fuzer may not be 100% in the right (really can't be determined as they're no 3rd party completely objective in this matter to post yet) but from what's come out of this so far, MoW had this coming.
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On September 13 2012 08:42 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:40 Sapphire.lux wrote:On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote:
the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public. This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue. Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive. He said he was willing to return the money and fuzer said he wanted war and didn't accept it...
Umm, no. He only offerd him the money back after Fuzer decided to go public.
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On September 13 2012 08:45 tofucake wrote:
If he refuses to leave he's staying in the house still and has no claim to the money
Of course they can say that
You do realize that he left the house right? He isn't refusing to leave, he is long gone which is why he wanted his money back in the first place.
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Wait maybe all of this is simply a joke to build hype for the house...
It's happened in the past...hi Welmu!
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People dont seem to get this. Biggest problems, atleast in my eyes, are:
1. Fuzer didnt see the contract until he was already 1 month in and paid for the second month.
2. He had no clue what the contract included before he saw it, which includes 150hours of streaming and mow gets cut of the revenue, this is the first time he heard about these.
3. He wanted to get the copy of the contract which mow denied.
4. Boss basicly says "you have no proof you gave me the money"
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On September 13 2012 08:43 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ Well MoW isn't wrong. They are not forcing players to stream 4 hours a day... but 5.
No, he threatened Fuzer to either keep his mouth shut, or "Start a war".
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On September 13 2012 08:49 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:43 Godwrath wrote:On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ Well MoW isn't wrong. They are not forcing players to stream 4 hours a day... but 5. No, he threatened Fuzer to either keep his mouth shut, or "Start a war".
I think you missquoted there 
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The vast majority, vast vast vast vast majority of posts in this thread are so ridiculous.
First of all this is he said-she said until we have documentation of everything. The only reason most of you are on Fuzer's side is because he came out and said something first. That doesn't make him right, simply means that he provided the first information.
Knowing full well the way MoW advertises on this site, I understand fully that their PR isn't stellar. It isn't bad, it's simply not good. That being said, yes things will be left out of statements. Does it mean they're being hidden? No. Why would they say anything at all about parties going on in the house if a) they didn't realize it was a problem at first and b) when it was brought up they ceased?
The posts of chat transcripts are all completely worthless excerpts of bits and pieces of a chat that are going to be dissected to support the position of whoever is posting them. "You owe me money!" "No we don't, I have no record of you paying us! you get nothing, see how things work when you don't do what's expected?!" could very well be the middle of a chat where "This place is a shithole and you are all a bunch of dickheads. You owe me money!" is followed by "No we don't, I have no record of you paying us! you get nothing, see how things work when you don't do what's expected?! We just want to resolve this issue, and I think if you sign the documents we can put the whole thing behind us and you can move back in. We'll even go over it with you face to face if you'd like." See how possible context can change entirely how the conversation flows?
Is there an issue with food? Maybe, that's something those with cooler heads would be better able to tell us.
Is the streaming schedule poor? Not in the least. If you're paying to live in a house that is designed specifically to be a video game training facility, you should be playing more than you would normally. 5 hours per day is really not a big deal, and don't give me that "you're not a pro-gamer, you don't know" bull either. 5 hours of ladder, or some ladder some analysis, or hell Ret could spend 5 hours teaching Pandi a couple builds and it would all be useful and probably fit their requirement. Look at a player like Destiny, who streams on average what, 6-8 hours a day? Does he practice off stream? Probably, probably a lot. Put in an 8 hour streaming day 5 days a week, take the weekends off from streaming. There are tons of ways to go about hitting this mark.
Maybe the creation of a team house for 10 years is a bit much, for instance my non-compete is 3 years, and that's for a multi-million dollar business, but how many of these players plan to create a team house? And even then, while the non-compete is there, I doubt MoW would pass up an opportunity to be a part of a team house possibly created by one of the players that got ideas from the Warsaw house (say Ret decides he wants to make a similar house in the netherlands. Speaking to the MoW guys, decide to make it "Ret's Ministry of Win Netherlands Branch and Team Liquid Headquarters" for instance would probably not be a problem in the slightest).
The thing to get out of this the most is that we're all speaking on stuff we don't know about entirely. This was an experimental house set up in the hopes of supporting and growing international eSports and you're taking it like they're this evil conglomerate out to fuck over one guy out of 600 euros.
MoW, step your PR game up, and be more open with stuff. Submit complete evidence showing that you acted reasonably and let the community decide what they'll believe at that point.
Fuzer, post more evidence before you go bashing anyone for anything, you haven't posted enough for logical thinkers to make an opinion either way.
Neither group is helping each other by putting forth these silly posts back and forth arguing on a public forum about the situation.
Finally, community: Calm the fuck down. How many times are we going to completely fucking overreact before we realize that it helps nobody.
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On September 13 2012 08:48 Badfatpanda wrote:
Wait, I've read a good deal more into this than I cared to as my train was 2 hours late >.> This new press release with a statement from Desrow saying that SjoW was going to come? How the fuck long ago was that taken from, there's no way in hell it's within the past week as SjoW has been there for over a week now...
This doesn't add up, especially after talking with a few of the players that have stayed with MoW. Whatever was in the contract, it kicked up a hornets nest and there's no way that MoW can get out of this with a reputation close to what they had prior to this ordeal.
I love how they bring up that they offered the money hours AFTER Fuzer made the post, what a shameful business approach. Fuzer may not be 100% in the right (really can't be determined as they're no 3rd party completely objective in this matter to post yet) but from what's come out of this so far, MoW had this coming.
Sjow recently left the house because of passport issues and wanted to come back in as soon as the passport issues were solved (2weeks).
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EPT
