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Drama in MoW house. - Page 32

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Stop derailing with living cost talk

On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote:
Press Release:

http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012

Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com.

- Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote:
http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims

- Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
September 12 2012 21:04 GMT
#621
boo, unless they post in 2 minutes, i'm guessing the 2 hour time frame was just a stall tactic, oh wells, patiently awaiting.
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
September 12 2012 21:04 GMT
#622
On September 13 2012 05:59 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 05:56 Zocat wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:50 insanet wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:48 Kasu wrote:
Can someone clear this up for me? As I understand it, MoW doesn't employt players, it is providing them with accomodation & food. In which case all this undisclosed stuff in the contract, stream revenue over a flat fee and refusal to let a lawyer look over it is a pile of shit. Any landlord tries that kind of shit, he can fuck right off. But I guess all it comes down to is Fuzer going home feeling shat on.


Fuzer never asked for all the money. read again. he did the math for what would be fair to get back.


It's not fair.

If player X asked if he could join MoW and MoW said "no, we're full, since Fuzer is here" and Fuzer then pulled out MoW is at a loss (since X would've paid). This is why you cant cancel most reservations after a certain timeframe (or only get a part of your cash back). So demanding all money (as in: 24/30 days since he stayed for 6) back after he moved out if imho not fair (or: not normal).

This is true too. MoW could argue that Fuzer entered into the contract by performance, since he moved there, gave them money, and started training. He then decided to break the contract, and therefore MoW is harmed by his non-performance since they lose the streaming revenues and they will be unable to find a guy to come to MoW immediately replace Fuzer.


That highly depends on his subjective understanding of the contract. A contract cannot come into effect if it is not fully understood by both parties (consent), so if this contract was so confusing Fuzer decided he needs a lawyer, it cannot come into effect. What can (and often does) become effective is a pre-contract (not quite sure about that translation, my law studies were in German....). Something along the lines of: "I'll pay you 600 for the first month and discuss the details with my lawyer first before signing" (allegedly what happened here). Now MoW easily could say something like: "no signature, no moving in!", but they allegedly did not. So as i said in my prior post, they have 2 options: 1) give him his money back (or at least a major part of it) or 2) negotiate until they arrive at a contract both sides can agree with (very unlikely considering that they already threw him out). Simply saying: "get out and we'll keep your money too" is NOT legal behaviour in such a situation.
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
September 12 2012 21:05 GMT
#623
On September 13 2012 05:46 chindy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 05:36 TOCHMY wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:31 MagicalGirl wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:12 FabledIntegral wrote:

On September 13 2012 03:52 seanisgrand wrote:
12 players. 7200 euro/mo for rent PLUS a cut of a minimum of 60 hours of their streaming profits DAILY.

Better be feeding them hella good...

oh wait


You're from the U.S. That rent, by U.S. standards, would be atrociously insufficient. Of course, it may be in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, I don't know, but considering the services provided, I would say they could not come even close to covering their costs with 7200 euros per month. It's simply not realistic.

Also, streaming revenue is highly dependent on the player. If you're one of the people with 120 viewers, your streaming revenue is negligible anyways.

MoW is meant to be a business. While I think the 10-year thing is ridiculous if true concerning joining another team, it is completely reasonable in terms of opening a house of their own (assuming it's for-profit).

I would assume streaming revenue couldn't be taken on their "days off" like weekends or whatever as well. The fact food is even supplied at 600 Euros a month, with gas/water, Internet/utilities, and the actual amount of equipment and services provided, is once again, in my eyes, a fucking steal.

I'd bet if they disclosed their financial statements you'd find they'd be operating on a very marginal profit margin. I'd be surprised if they've been able to even recoup their initial total investment, which is most likely leveraged in the first place and thus they'll also have to pay interest.

People that think the costs to the players are ridiculous are people that have absolutely no concept of finances.

Bro, when I lived with my parents overseas we were renting 8 bedroom 4 bath houses for 2500 euros a month in German and English cities. I know this is all anecdotal evidence, but I'm just letting you know that with 7200 euros a month (probably more since they are getting some streaming revenue, maybe some sponsors and not every player is probably paying the same amount) you should EASILY be able to afford something like the MoW setup. Easily.


Easily, especially in Poland, quite a cheap country to live in



For those people who dont know anything about european prices etc...What are 600 €

Swizerland: u can´t even affort your food per month for 600€ not to mention any kind of living or dont even think of having good food. a small cup of coffee costs about 7sFr(5€/6,5dollar)

the Same with Sweden Norway/maybe GB;

Austria/Germany/FR/North of Italy:
you could affor the rent for a very small appartement if it is not in the center of a town or anywhere near a famous street or building or sight. but thats it no food or anything....
PL/Czech rep./Hungary/mb a few other eastern european countries:
600€ is enough. and they get that from every player + sponsors.


I don't know where you got this from, but Sweden's economy is very different from Norways and UKs. Stuff is much cheaper in Sweden. For example, according to konsumentverket (government ruled authority that is in charge of customers right or whatever, don't really know how to explain in english), the recommended amount to spend on food for a male between the ages 18-30 is 2210SEK which is around 249EUR.

A regular rent for a small, standard apartment is around 3000-4000SEK which is around 350-450EUR. A cup of coffee is maybe 2-3EUR
hundred thousand krouner
AwfulPlayer
Profile Joined August 2010
249 Posts
September 12 2012 21:05 GMT
#624
perfect thread to find out where to live for what price. 1 minute to go. djwheat-eating-popcorn.gif
mahO
Profile Joined April 2011
France274 Posts
September 12 2012 21:05 GMT
#625
On September 13 2012 06:02 nkr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 05:59 mahO wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:53 Inzult wrote:




For those people who dont know anything about european prices etc...What are 600 €

Swizerland: u can´t even affort your food per month for 600€ not to mention any kind of living or dont even think of having good food. a small cup of coffee costs about 7sFr(5€/6,5dollar)

the Same with Sweden Norway/maybe GB;

Austria/Germany/FR/North of Italy:
you could affor the rent for a very small appartement if it is not in the center of a town or anywhere near a famous street or building or sight. but thats it no food or anything....
PL/Czech rep./Hungary/mb a few other eastern european countries:
600€ is enough. and they get that from every player + sponsors.





I live in Sweden with the rent at about 380 euros. You can easily live here with 600 euros but you will not have alot of money



Huh where do you live and when can I become your new roommate? you cant live decently with 600 euros in a mid population french town, and I went to Copenhagen and Malmo, you could just tell that everything was 30% higher, even compared to Paris, I mean, how?


You don't live decently off 600 euro, but you most certainly don't need 600 euro for food


Well awesome, I really enjoyed the little I saw from DK and SWE, but thought "holyshit I feel like I'm from a third world country here", especially since we came from Hungary and lets say the ratio was 1/4 on prices, guess I didnt search hard enough too, back on topic, where is mah statement!
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
September 12 2012 21:06 GMT
#626
On September 13 2012 06:04 PosixT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 05:59 Tula wrote:
The op is not 100% clear on the next point, but what I understand is that his lawyer either never got it or only received it after serious trouble, Fuzer decided he could not sign that contract (so far that is still within his rights). MoW decided he has to move out (also well within their rights) BUT if they want to behave legally they now have to give him this months rent back (the percentage not consumed if they want to be precise). Anything else they did would be illegal..


The way I read it, it seems like MoW wouldn't let Fuzer give his contact to a lawyer without the lawyer first providing proof to MoW that he was a lawyer.

which is quite confusing in itself... Frankly if Fuzer wants to let his friend who is only a paralegal be his legal advisor that would also be quite fine outside of court settings...
Kasu
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom345 Posts
September 12 2012 21:06 GMT
#627
On September 13 2012 06:00 ShamW0W wrote:
Being as objective as possible: If the Skype logs are true then the Boss is legally correct, no proof that money transferred hands = money never transferred hands in the legal system.

However, if those logs are true, then it's a really shitty way to treat people, especially if you're trying to build a brand that people respect.

True, but a receipt is far from being the only way to prove money changed hands.
Kernkraft
Profile Joined April 2011
93 Posts
September 12 2012 21:06 GMT
#628
10€ is the price for a hotel room in poland with tv+wifi+shower..
Daray
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
6006 Posts
September 12 2012 21:06 GMT
#629
On September 13 2012 06:01 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 05:58 Daray wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:55 Thinasy wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:46 chindy wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:36 TOCHMY wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:31 MagicalGirl wrote:
On September 13 2012 05:12 FabledIntegral wrote:

On September 13 2012 03:52 seanisgrand wrote:
12 players. 7200 euro/mo for rent PLUS a cut of a minimum of 60 hours of their streaming profits DAILY.

Better be feeding them hella good...

oh wait


You're from the U.S. That rent, by U.S. standards, would be atrociously insufficient. Of course, it may be in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, I don't know, but considering the services provided, I would say they could not come even close to covering their costs with 7200 euros per month. It's simply not realistic.

Also, streaming revenue is highly dependent on the player. If you're one of the people with 120 viewers, your streaming revenue is negligible anyways.

MoW is meant to be a business. While I think the 10-year thing is ridiculous if true concerning joining another team, it is completely reasonable in terms of opening a house of their own (assuming it's for-profit).

I would assume streaming revenue couldn't be taken on their "days off" like weekends or whatever as well. The fact food is even supplied at 600 Euros a month, with gas/water, Internet/utilities, and the actual amount of equipment and services provided, is once again, in my eyes, a fucking steal.

I'd bet if they disclosed their financial statements you'd find they'd be operating on a very marginal profit margin. I'd be surprised if they've been able to even recoup their initial total investment, which is most likely leveraged in the first place and thus they'll also have to pay interest.

People that think the costs to the players are ridiculous are people that have absolutely no concept of finances.

Bro, when I lived with my parents overseas we were renting 8 bedroom 4 bath houses for 2500 euros a month in German and English cities. I know this is all anecdotal evidence, but I'm just letting you know that with 7200 euros a month (probably more since they are getting some streaming revenue, maybe some sponsors and not every player is probably paying the same amount) you should EASILY be able to afford something like the MoW setup. Easily.


Easily, especially in Poland, quite a cheap country to live in



For those people who dont know anything about european prices etc...What are 600 €

Swizerland: u can´t even affort your food per month for 600€ not to mention any kind of living or dont even think of having good food. a small cup of coffee costs about 7sFr(5€/6,5dollar)

the Same with Sweden Norway/maybe GB;

Austria/Germany/FR/North of Italy:
you could affor the rent for a very small appartement if it is not in the center of a town or anywhere near a famous street or building or sight. but thats it no food or anything....
PL/Czech rep./Hungary/mb a few other eastern european countries:
600€ is enough. and they get that from every player + sponsors.




Am I reading this correctly, you're saying you cant afford food for a month for 600Euro's in Sweden?


That's 20 euros per day. I could probably eat quality beef sirloin every day in Finland with that


No way... I was in Finland back in.... 96? The beef price was RIDICULOUS! I did not have beef or lamb once the whole 4 month there because I couldn't afford it. Chicken was good though.


Yeah it's expensive here but for 20 euros you could if you wanted to... not tenderloin though that's like out of my price range :D

Chicken is really cheap and good that's true.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
September 12 2012 21:06 GMT
#630
within 2 hours :D..
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#631
On September 13 2012 05:50 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Why are people blowing up over destiny's comments? All he is saying is that no matter how immoral, dickish, and evil the MOW boss is, unless it is proven he has done something illegal, no legal action can be taken. He's not excusing his actions or saying that what he did is okay. He is saying legally, there is nothing that was done wrong (at least from what we know). You can't sue someone if you gave them money and didn't sign a contract or get evidence that you made a legal transaction.


This post is wrong in many ways.
"He is saying legally, there is nothing that was done wrong" I don't think that what he is saying, not sure.
What i am sure about it is definitely wrong. In civil law it first counts if someone is wrong. If you can prove it that's a different story.
Same to the 2nd point. Of course you can sue him for taking the money (accept the contract) and not fulfill his part of the contract. I am not talking about verifiability. Fuzer could very well have problems prove that he gave him the money, but we don't know the exact situation.
Cj hero | Zest
-StrifeX-
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States529 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-12 21:07:55
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#632
2 hours and still no statement from MoW was kind of looking forward to see what is going on I guess they having hard time to come up with words to fix the issue??? :D
Tonttu
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland606 Posts
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#633
2 hours have passed. Where is their statement?
Naama, the #1 Conductor! | Slayers, Fnatic and Mouz | Naama, MMA and ForGG |
FloKi
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1490 Posts
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#634
Going to wait another ten minutes before logging off,hopefully MoW side of the story will be posted soon.
Where do whores go?
Gyoza
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden45 Posts
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#635
Within 2 hours... =(
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
September 12 2012 21:07 GMT
#636
On September 13 2012 06:06 Kernkraft wrote:
10€ is the price for a hotel room in poland with tv+wifi+shower..

Damn, seriously? That's like, even cheaper than Korea. And I thought Korea was cheap.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
HornyHerring
Profile Joined March 2011
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
September 12 2012 21:08 GMT
#637
OK THEYRE LATE ALREADY THEY MUST BE LIEING NOW WHATEVER THEY SAY!


:D
oh, hai
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
September 12 2012 21:08 GMT
#638
I think this calls for an esports Union! Who's with me? :D
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
nesneros
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States11 Posts
September 12 2012 21:08 GMT
#639
2 hours are up sirs!
mememolly
Profile Joined December 2011
4765 Posts
September 12 2012 21:09 GMT
#640
should stream the announcement, revenue could go to Fuzer
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