Virtus.Pro Manager comments: I'm glad that we are finally able to reinforce the ranks of zergs, which have been otherwise lacking for quite some time. Especially since this zerg has established a reputation as one of the best players in the CIS area. I see it as an important move for our organization, and I'm sure that Artem will estimate the opportunities of our project at their true worth, as well as the standards of relations among the fellow players. I think that this transfer will give rise to more successful and progressive activity in our team. And numerous fans of the imba race will soon be able to watch Slivko in action on his streams.
sLivko states: I was happy to be in RoX, to me they were not simply a team, but also good friends who would always help and support. I'm sincerely grateful to them for all of this. But this is professional sport; Virtus Pro offered me better terms and prospects, and I believe it to be a significant step forward to me. Don't forget to follow me on twitter.com/VPBenQSlivko and watch my FP streams.
________________________________________________
As of today, Artem "sLivko" Garavtsov is no longer a part of team RoX.KIS.
Official news on goodgame.ru here, here's the translation of the statements:
From today Artem "sLivko" Garavtsov is no longer a part of the team Russia RoX.KIS on StarCraft2 thus being a free agent. Inside the story, you can read the comments from the managers and CEO of the team.
RoX.KIS.Bruce - General Director Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Some might think that we would make exceptions for Artem and we really looked at these possibilities. Unfortunately, we have a clear system of rating labor and without streaming, making better terms would not be fair to the rest of the players. Titan, for example, has better and more results. He is more known and respected by organizers [events/sponsors I'm guessing] and the community. Fraer won more online tournaments and took third place at DreamHack Summer 2012. So allocating Slivko from others we could only do with proper work, to which Artem refused.
We hope that there comes a time when gamers will understand that you can receive something if you put in the required work, and not for what they feel, like having more experience (for which the team pays) and for that reason they start to cost more. We wish him luck.
RoX.KIS.PoDoX - Team Captain There have been ultimatums coming from Artem about reviewing conditions about his stay at RoX.KIS. During negotiations we did not find a compromise, and as of this day Slivko no longer protects the colors of our team.
RoX.KIS.Craft - Team Manager It has been little less than a year since Artem has joined the team. During this time had visited tournaments in Ukraine, South Korea, Brazil, Sweden, Germany, and visited few team bootcamps. From the team and the website, Artem received full and comprehensive support, but left dissatisfied by the conditions and put forward new demands. After talking with managers, we concluded that they are unacceptable. As a result, we have made the hard decision of terminating of collaboration with him. We wish him luck in his future career.
Edit: Updated the post with a real translation.
Thanks to Shadow_Dog and to Vo-one for providing one.
Well Slivko is like top5 right now between european zergs and has by far the most offline appearances from the roxkis guys. So I can understand that he wanted a new contract after a year and while it's sad he and Roxkis couldn't agree on something I'm sure he will find a new team. GL Slivko, you can always start armwrestling anyways .
Why so hostile? If slivko wants to take a gamble that's his right. I think players should be known for their results and play first and their personality second anyway.
Interesting news. Rox.Kis is somewhat unknown outside of the CIS but their players are getting really good. I would have loved for them to compete in team leagues but it seems team spirit wasn't as strong.
That is a pretty unprofessional and sour way of breaking the news from the CEO. I'm not impressed. In any event, good luck moving forward Slivko! You caught my attention at IEM!
On August 24 2012 20:22 Lumi wrote: That is a pretty unprofessional and sour way of breaking the news from the CEO. I'm not impressed. In any event, good luck moving forward Slivko! You caught my attention at IEM!
That is just a google translation, so obviously it isn't 100% accurate, but in reality, there is nothing wrong with this situation. Slivko attempted to negotiate, but couldn't come to terms. He is not obligated to give a "hometown discount" and it is completely understandable that he would want to become a free agent.
On August 24 2012 20:24 smileface wrote: given how much support from rox.kis he got (just look at all his offline events), which team could give him a better offer?
either he is trying for a korea run or someone wants him reaaaaaally badly.
If he goes to some other team, realistically, I'd say it's Empire (Violet recently left, could use a top foreigner Zerg) or Millenium (same situation with Stephano). On the other hand, Slivko might not want to fill in such shoes. Who knows.
RoX.KIS.Bruce: It's sad for us, but we have to say goodbye to Artem. There are a few reasons caused this, but the main is - the player wants to get more money, but doesn't want to work with the community. We were able to improve the terms of his contract, if he makes regular video broadcast and promotion of our partners, but Artem (as the players of the target category) wants just to play, get paid for this increasing salary and drive to all international tournaments. Unfortunately for the team and partners there is no financial benefits with it. To whom it may seem that we could make concessions for Artem and we did consider such possibilities. However, we have a clear system of job evaluation and without player's broadcasts, improving the terms of the contract would be unfair to other players of our team. Titan, for example, has better results and much more results. He is better known and respected by the organizers and the community. Fraer has won more online tournaments and finished third at the World Cup 2012 DreamHack Summer. That's why we cannot individuate Slivko from the rest of our players, we could do but only with proper jobs which Artem refused. We hope the time will come when the players realize they can get something disered only from something earned, but at this moment they think they have become more experienced (this experience was paid by the team) and this makes them more expensive. We wish him a good luck.
RoX.KIS.PoDoX: We have received an ultimatum demand from Artem of revision of the terms of his contract with RoX.KIS. During the negotiations a compromise was not reached and from this moment Slivko is no longer in our team roaster.
RoX.KIS.Craft: Less than a year has passed from the moment Artem joined our team. During this period he got to the tournaments in Ukraine, South Korea, Brazil, Sweden, Germany and visited several command bootcamps. From the side of our team and web-site Artem has got full and comprehensive support, but he was not satisfied with all these stuff and put forward new demands. After a discussion with management we came to the conclusion that these demands are unacceptable for us. As a result we made a difficult decision to stop our collaboration with him. We wish him a good luck in his future career.
On August 24 2012 20:32 GoingGoingGone wrote: If he goes to some other team, realistically, I'd say it's Empire (Violet recently left, could use a top foreigner Zerg) or Millenium (same situation with Stephano). On the other hand, Slivko might not want to fill in such shoes. Who knows.
I'm sure, that Empire won't pick up Slivko. They had problems with Violet because he had become greedy. Same story with Slivko.
RoX.Kis is really great team, all the guys that enter it really show improvements over time. Slivko did improve, by a lot, but he must understand that team also participated in his growth,so I really think that there should be a compromiss. But anyway... EG.SlivkO, oh no wait, he still didn't won the DH.
This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
That sucks...damn. He's like the best RUS Z. I will make a translation if still needed when I get out of bed.
RoX.KIS.Bruce - General Director Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Some might think that we would make exceptions for Artem and we really looked at these possibilities. Unfortunately, we have a clear system of rating labor and without streaming, making better terms would not be fair to the rest of the players. Titan, for example, has better and more results. He is more known and respected by organizers [events/sponsors I'm guessing] and the community. Fraer won more online tournaments and took third place at DreamHack Summer 2012. So allocating Slivko from others we could only do with proper work, to which Artem refused.
We hope that there comes a time when gamers will understand that you can receive something if you put in the required work, and not for what they feel, like having more experience (for which the team pays) and for that reason they start to cost more. We wish him luck.
RoX.KIS.PoDoX - Team Captain There have been ultimatums coming from Artem about reviewing conditions about his stay at RoX.KIS. During negotiations we did not find a compromise, and as of this day Slivko no longer protects the colors of our team.
RoX.KIS.Craft - Team Manager It has been little less than a year since Artem has joined the team. During this time had visited tournaments in Ukraine, South Korea, Brazil, Sweden, Germany, and visited few team bootcamps. From the team and the website, Artem received full and comprehensive support, but left dissatisfied by the conditions and put forward new demands. After talking with managers, we concluded that they are unacceptable. As a result, we have made the hard decision of terminating of collaboration with him. We wish him luck in his future career.
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
i think it is ok, they gave the reason very clearly, why his request for more money was declined.
Good luck to Slivko though, i really like him as a player and he seems like a cool person too. That'd be great if he could join a team with good international connections =)
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
i think it is ok, they gave the reason very clearly, why his request for more money was declined.
It IS very unprofessional, usually this kind of details remains private between the player and the team management. Nobody needs to know that Slivko wanted a raise and didn't get it. They could simply have said something like "The collaboration has come to an end, thank you for representing our team in the last year, we wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors".
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
i think it is ok, they gave the reason very clearly, why his request for more money was declined.
It IS very unprofessional, usually this kind of details remains private between the player and the team management. Nobody needs to know that Slivko wanted a raise and didn't get it. They could simply have said something like "The collaboration has come to an end, thank you for representing our team in the last year, we wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors".
Personally I don't agree about it being unprofessional. I think it is perfectly fine the way it was presented and for me it doesn't create a bad image of either the player or the team at all. Both sides had good reasons for their decisions that people can understand and there should be no shame about stating them like this. This also prevents any unnecessary speculation from coming up like it often does in other cases.
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
This is not unprofessionally, this is just the way some people talk. Instead of standart "bla bla bla, thanks for everything" Bruce told everyone the thruth and this is great. People should talk the thruth instead of covering each others bad sides.
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
This is not unprofessionally, this is just the way some people talk. Instead of standart "bla bla bla, thanks for everything" Bruce told everyone the thruth and this is great. People should talk the thruth instead of covering each others bad sides.
No it's not. It's a soviet mentality thing where seeking better opportunities for yourself is seen as a betrayal and the traitor is seen as a capitalist pig!
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
This is not unprofessionally, this is just the way some people talk. Instead of standart "bla bla bla, thanks for everything" Bruce told everyone the thruth and this is great. People should talk the thruth instead of covering each others bad sides.
No it's not. It's a soviet mentality thing where seeking better opportunities for yourself is seen as a betrayal and the traitor is seen as a capitalist pig!
More likely that it's your opinion of Russia distorting your opinion of the situation.
On August 24 2012 20:15 SilSol wrote: Why am i not surprised at all? He want's to think about his future i guess! Hope he gets a good team! <3 gl sLivko!
Then he should post results and make himself more known to the community instead of expecting money for nothing...
Nothing wrong with how the news was released. It's great to see that kind of transparency rather than some bullshit press release that says nothing. Now we know what slivko wants, what RoX wants, and why they didn't mesh. You couldn't ask for a better news article.
Good luck to slivko, he's been tearing it up for awhile now, hope he finds what he wants!
I like how Bruce isn't sugarcoating it, or uses the standard statement format like 'we have different views of the future of the team'. He just says where it's at, I like it. Though to be fair a statement of Slivko would be a good addition as he does not come off very well now >_>
On August 25 2012 01:50 dani` wrote: I like how Bruce isn't sugarcoating it, or uses the standard statement format like 'we have different views of the future of the team'. He just says where it's at, I like it. Though to be fair a statement of Slivko would be a good addition as he does not come off very well now >_>
I do not think that Slivko comes off badly at all. There was a dispute over pay and conditions. It happens in many industries. An agreement could not be reached so the contract was not renewed. Neither party is to blame and both parties think that they are better off without the other. No problem.
On August 25 2012 01:54 Chrisje wrote: Patch zergs becoming greedier by the moment!
Was about to contradict you but then looked at his Liquipedia and noticed so many wins post-patch. Although Slivko was known before the patch as well but seeing him leave ROXKIS for another team just makes you wonder which big team it's going to be.
On August 25 2012 01:50 dani` wrote: I like how Bruce isn't sugarcoating it, or uses the standard statement format like 'we have different views of the future of the team'. He just says where it's at, I like it. Though to be fair a statement of Slivko would be a good addition as he does not come off very well now >_>
I do not think that Slivko comes off badly at all. There was a dispute over pay and conditions. It happens in many industries. An agreement could not be reached so the contract was not renewed. Neither party is to blame and both parties think that they are better off without the other. No problem.
I don't know, kinda got the idea from the manager Slivko is lazy and arrogant, lazy as in he does not want to promote the team and sponsors through for example streaming, and arrogant as in he demands more money while not putting in more time or achieve better results (though not really sure if that's the case, but from the manager's statement it seemed they were more satisfied with other players' results).
On August 24 2012 20:15 SilSol wrote: Why am i not surprised at all? He want's to think about his future i guess! Hope he gets a good team! <3 gl sLivko!
Then he should post results and make himself more known to the community instead of expecting money for nothing...
Make him more known to the community? Hes been doing very well lately the past tournaments and he wants to move on? can't really blame him. Perhaps he didn't get what he really wanted in RoX?
Interesting to see where he will go. FXO.eu, Empire? It is a shame that he's not willing to be more involved in the community though. That will probably hurt his value a lot.
Not sure why he declines streaming more and promoting the sponsors that allow him to go to events. Just silly, but good luck to him getting a team where he's getting paid what he wants, being sent to more events without streaming more or promoting his sponsors.
RoX-team asked Slivko to stream. Streams give money from ads - wtf Slivko refused it? Does anyone of RoX-haters know how much money the streams give to the player?
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
I was reading this and Ithought the exact same thing. Seriously inapropriate to say that he didn't put in his fair share when he is quite obviously better than Fraer and LiveZerg at this point in time. Brat_OK is not that great right now and neither is Pomi. The only person I'd put ahead of him on their list is Titan. I can't believe that they put out a statement like that.
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
I was reading this and Ithought the exact same thing. Seriously inapropriate to say that he didn't put in his fair share when he is quite obviously better than Fraer and LiveZerg at this point in time. Brat_OK is not that great right now and neither is Pomi. The only person I'd put ahead of him on their list is Titan. I can't believe that they put out a statement like that.
What does Brat_OK have to do with either RoxKis or Slivko? He is on empire and was on FXO before, also Fraer is pretty damn good. IMO
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
I was reading this and Ithought the exact same thing. Seriously inapropriate to say that he didn't put in his fair share when he is quite obviously better than Fraer and LiveZerg at this point in time. Brat_OK is not that great right now and neither is Pomi. The only person I'd put ahead of him on their list is Titan. I can't believe that they put out a statement like that.
BratOK isn't even on roxkis lol... he switched teams 2x since he was... he left FXO to join Empire. double fail :D and while you see more of slivko recently I would't say he is better than fraer.
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
I was reading this and Ithought the exact same thing. Seriously inapropriate to say that he didn't put in his fair share when he is quite obviously better than Fraer and LiveZerg at this point in time. Brat_OK is not that great right now and neither is Pomi. The only person I'd put ahead of him on their list is Titan. I can't believe that they put out a statement like that.
Well perhaps putting in work does not only entail tournament results? If the team requires more community interaction (which i think is a good thing) then those that do not comply are putting in less effort than those that do. So yes he did great as far as tourneys go but didn't put it enough effort in other areas. I also do not think they were overly rude and it was a refreshment from "everything was great but we decided to part" speeches
On August 24 2012 21:48 Kompicek wrote: This is very unprofessionally handled, CEO and other members of the team made a very bad image about the player eventhough he has been with them for a long time. That should stay between the team and the player, not to post it to community in this way. I believe there should be an apology after theese statements.
This is not unprofessionally, this is just the way some people talk. Instead of standart "bla bla bla, thanks for everything" Bruce told everyone the thruth and this is great. People should talk the thruth instead of covering each others bad sides.
No it's not. It's a soviet mentality thing where seeking better opportunities for yourself is seen as a betrayal and the traitor is seen as a capitalist pig!
More likely that it's your opinion of Russia distorting your opinion of the situation.
being russian i'd hope my opinion of Russia is pretty accurate.
On August 25 2012 03:48 blade55555 wrote: Not sure why he declines streaming more and promoting the sponsors that allow him to go to events. Just silly, but good luck to him getting a team where he's getting paid what he wants, being sent to more events without streaming more or promoting his sponsors.
On August 25 2012 04:12 Vo-one wrote: RoX-team asked Slivko to stream. Streams give money from ads - wtf Slivko refused it? Does anyone of RoX-haters know how much money the streams give to the player?
To my best knowledge the stream revenue is split between the player and the RoX.KiS management.
The dream of being professional gamers is becoming more and more a reality. Players these days think they can make it big simply by playing. Thats wrong, there is a tough gaming underworld where politics and sponsors really do need players to support, promote and contribute to their community. If player just wants to get paid without big results then that simply won't happen; unless your teams management is horrible at business solutions and goes bankrupt after 6 month - 1 year. But, we never seen that happen before right?
On August 25 2012 05:21 TargA wrote: guys, everyone that wrote a negative post towards slivko or rox kis should edit their post quick, if not, they will come for you.
anyways, wish the best for slivko, hope he gets a sick team so he can continue to destroy the world!
He is just mediocre EU zerg, there is a lot of same level zergs (sortof, targa, jonnyrecco... etc). I doubt someone will suggest him better deal than Rox did. Bruce made everything right, especially explaining all things as they are. I heard Empire wanted to pick up some zerg, but again, I doubt they could suggest him better conditions than Rox. Without team support it may become an end of Slivko's esports career.
On August 25 2012 08:59 Unnamed wrote: He is just mediocre EU zerg, there is a lot of same level zergs (sortof, targa, jonnyrecco... etc). I doubt someone will suggest him better deal than Rox did. Bruce made everything right, especially explaining all things as they are. I heard Empire wanted to pick up some zerg, but again, I doubt they could suggest him better conditions than Rox. Without team support it may become an end of Slivko's esports career.
I don't think that i recall slivko,sortof as mediocre zerg players from EU. Their quite good actually ;p
On August 24 2012 20:15 SilSol wrote: Why am i not surprised at all? He want's to think about his future i guess! Hope he gets a good team! <3 gl sLivko!
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
On August 25 2012 08:59 Unnamed wrote: He is just mediocre EU zerg, there is a lot of same level zergs (sortof, targa, jonnyrecco... etc). I doubt someone will suggest him better deal than Rox did. Bruce made everything right, especially explaining all things as they are. I heard Empire wanted to pick up some zerg, but again, I doubt they could suggest him better conditions than Rox. Without team support it may become an end of Slivko's esports career.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
+1, anyone streaming is not training seriously at that time which essentially is wasted time unless you settle for the money that streaming brings putting results on a lower priority
Thanks for an honest statement. Obviously it's the team statement, and they should put out what they feel protects them. There is nothing stopping slivko from responding, either. I think this sort of transparency is a good thing.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
If this is part of your contract you have to do it, no matter what. Streaming brings money to the team via commercials.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
Brand awareness. These teams don't make enough money off of their cut of prize money to sustain themselves, there's an oversaturation of players/teams. I'd guess that at most major tournaments less than 25% of the field makes money back, which means teams aren't making a ton of money themselves. The only way to turn profits (these are businesses after all) is through sponsors. Sponsors want something for their buck - promotion of their products. Streaming and plugging their product gets the name out there. Thus, the requirements for streaming by teams for their players.
Team Mionix! And... Wow they were no fluff in that statement. Will make him less attractive on the market for sure if he's that greedy. They did sent him to a lot of events and he didn't perform in a fashion that anyone would pay him whatever money it takes.
personally i think if your team player is a greedy ass motherfucka you should go out and say it out loud man... why would someone preserve the image of a player who's been fully supported and still left cuz of greedy?
they clearly said they could pay him more money, as long as he streamed and promoted sponsors (what's wrong with that? everybody does it?) so, i dont see a problem with saying names and reasons here.
If Empire accepts Slivko's salary wish, i see him going there. Aslo either ROX has awful PR or slivko did not handle it very well by asking way to much, to the point it became offensive to the team. Still not sure if ROX should put it there like they did, they kinda want to make Slivko feel guilty about leaving after they gave him aaaalll those oppertunities, isn't that something you put in a contract beforehand ?
To those who can't read russian: in his comment Slivko says that he was happy to be in RoxKis, he got a lot of support from them and he is thankful for that, but it's a professional sport and he got a better offer from VirtusPro.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
Except those Koreans stream their ladder games pretty often, MC/Nestea/MVP/MKP/DRG/etc. have all streamed, MKP used to do it pretty regularly. And RoxKis spends money to fly him everywhere, spends money to promote him, etc. If he can't make that a mutually beneficial deal it's not worth it for them to keep him. It didn't come across as unprofessional, they just stated why they couldn't come to an agreement; they have other players to care for and slivko couldn't make himself worth the extra money to roxkis.
The whole "Yeah, we're still best friends. I hope everyone does well xD." statements are both boring and untrue, I don't understand how lying about the situation is any more professional than being honest. They didn't slander his name at all, nor did it make them look any worse.
I mean ... there's nothing wrong about being honest in official statements as to why players leave your team. But this kinda seems to be more like an unelaborated rant by a pissed-off management. Not indicative of a good team atmosphere at all ...
On August 25 2012 21:40 .syd. wrote: Seems like someone at RoXKIS is pretty pissed.
I mean ... there's nothing wrong about being honest in official statements as to why players leave your team. But this kinda seems to be more like an unelaborated rant by a pissed-off management. Not indicative of a good team atmosphere at all ...
Yes i got the exactly the same feeling here, there was no need to go that far.
so a Player doesnt like the community and wants more money...thats okay...but i will not root for him. I enjoy players who like to interact with the community.
On August 25 2012 22:52 cutler wrote: so a Player doesnt like the community and wants more money...thats okay...but i will not root for him. I enjoy players who like to interact with the community.
On August 25 2012 23:01 cutler wrote: read first post...he just want to play the game...no stream etc...just more money
A lot of progamers that stream actually don't do it for the community but simply for the money, because it's even more lucrative than price money and you receive your money directly from twitch/own3d. So your opinion makes no sense in that regard.
On August 25 2012 23:01 cutler wrote: read first post...he just want to play the game...no stream etc...just more money
A lot of progamers that stream actually don't do it for the community but simply for the money, because it's even more lucrative than price money and you receive your money directly from twitch/own3d. So you're opinion makes no sense in that regard.
didnt know that it is that lucrative...is there any info regarding streaming income?
On August 25 2012 23:01 cutler wrote: read first post...he just want to play the game...no stream etc...just more money
A lot of progamers that stream actually don't do it for the community but simply for the money, because it's even more lucrative than price money and you receive your money directly from twitch/own3d. So you're opinion makes no sense in that regard.
didnt know that it is that lucrative...is there any info regarding streaming income?
From manager VP: I'm glad that we are finally able to reinforce the ranks of zergs, which have been otherwise lacking for quite some time. Especially since this zerg has established a reputation as one of the best players in the CIS area. I see it as an important move for our organization, and I'm sure that Artem will estimate the opportunities of our project at their true worth, as well as the standards of relations among the fellow players. I think that this transfer will give rise to more successful and progressive activity in our team. And numerous fans of the imba race will soon be able to watch Slivko in action on his streams.
From slivko: I was happy to be in RoX, to me they were not simply a team, but also good friends who would always help and support. I'm sincerely grateful to them for all of this. But this is professional sport; Virtus Pro offered me better terms and prospects, and I believe it to be a significant step forward to me. Don't forget to follow me on twitter.com/VPBenQSlivko and watch my FP streams.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
Except those Koreans stream their ladder games pretty often, MC/Nestea/MVP/MKP/DRG/etc. have all streamed, MKP used to do it pretty regularly. And RoxKis spends money to fly him everywhere, spends money to promote him, etc. If he can't make that a mutually beneficial deal it's not worth it for them to keep him. It didn't come across as unprofessional, they just stated why they couldn't come to an agreement; they have other players to care for and slivko couldn't make himself worth the extra money to roxkis.
The whole "Yeah, we're still best friends. I hope everyone does well xD." statements are both boring and untrue, I don't understand how lying about the situation is any more professional than being honest. They didn't slander his name at all, nor did it make them look any worse.
Are MC/Nestea/MVP/MKP/DRG/MKP still streaming? I never seem to find their stream on the TL sidebar.
On August 25 2012 22:52 cutler wrote: so a Player doesnt like the community and wants more money...thats okay...but i will not root for him. I enjoy players who like to interact with the community.
From what I've seen of his stream Slivko seems to interact with his viewers a lot. It's all in Russian, but when I watch, over half the time he seems to be giving commentary on what he's doing in game, which is pretty cool (even cooler if you know Russian). It sounds like the dispute was less about interacting with the community and more about getting a fatter contract, which is a pretty typical dispute in the gaming community.
So he left for a worse team then what he was on? Makes tons of sense haha. He wanted more money but didn't wanna do more work so I would drop him as well such a greedy guy haha.
Sad to say, but we are forced to say goodbye to Artem. There are many reasons for this, but main - the player wants to receive more [money], without working with the community. We were ready to make better terms, only if he would regularly stream and promote partners [sponsors]; but for Artem (and a whole category of players) want to just play and receive a growing salary, and travel to all foreign tournaments. Sadly, for the team and it's partners there is no financial gain in this.
Working with the community = streaming on twitch.tv?
This is getting a bit ridiculous, so I'll give my opinion: Fuck streaming. Progamers streaming some pointless ladder games seem like a total waste of time to me. That time would definitely be better spent doing actual training, you know, the stuff that koreans do in order to own everyone else (and proceed to acquire the currency that Roxkis seems to crave)
Except those Koreans stream their ladder games pretty often, MC/Nestea/MVP/MKP/DRG/etc. have all streamed, MKP used to do it pretty regularly. And RoxKis spends money to fly him everywhere, spends money to promote him, etc. If he can't make that a mutually beneficial deal it's not worth it for them to keep him. It didn't come across as unprofessional, they just stated why they couldn't come to an agreement; they have other players to care for and slivko couldn't make himself worth the extra money to roxkis.
The whole "Yeah, we're still best friends. I hope everyone does well xD." statements are both boring and untrue, I don't understand how lying about the situation is any more professional than being honest. They didn't slander his name at all, nor did it make them look any worse.
Are MC/Nestea/MVP/MKP/DRG/MKP still streaming? I never seem to find their stream on the TL sidebar.
Except for MVP i've seen all those recently. You listed MKP twice, but he is indeed awesome.
On August 26 2012 23:34 Catatonic wrote: So he left for a worse team then what he was on? Makes tons of sense haha. He wanted more money but didn't wanna do more work so I would drop him as well such a greedy guy haha.
He only want to play, he doesnt want to promote his supporters. Just only play, nothing others.
Do you would drop him if [player] continues his "work" 40h/week (like always) instead of 55h/week like you want in his new contract? Thats really silly.
Make more money streaming? Wtf dawg i only like recieving money when they make it rain in that music video, nahh dawg just give me more money im playing video games its hard on the wrists, travel around the world playen video games ohh god the difficulty and hard work SEND THAT MAN MORE MONEY NOW!
On August 27 2012 04:22 Bromo wrote: Make more money streaming? Wtf dawg i only like recieving money when they make it rain in that music video, nahh dawg just give me more money im playing video games its hard on the wrists, travel around the world playen video games ohh god the difficulty and hard work SEND THAT MAN MORE MONEY NOW!
it's not that slivko is BAD, it's just that he's not a star. I think it's fine to think you deserve more than what you get, but cmon, it's an outrage from both sides.. 1, to act like you're some kind of superstar but also 2, the team should not have posted bitter things as their public statement..
I agree that you need to earn your place before you go demanding things. But it's also fair to say that slivko is his own person and seeking something better for himself is totally fine. I would feel a little betrayed if I was RoxKis but not so much and I would have to understand.
That being said, there are far more established players and players with higher potential that don't go around asking for more without showing results, long-term, first
Reguarding the income thing, he wants to make a profession out of starcraft, so naturally he'd ask for pay.
The streaming demand is a bit blurry to me, I'm not sure if they wanted him to stream more and interact during it, or they just wanted him to stream period. If it's the latter, I'm not sure I agree with his decision.
Interacting with viewers really takes a toll on your play, many streamers use smurf accounts while doing so, for that sole reason. imo smurfing doesn't give very good practice.
EPT
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