MLG open bracket has counted but nothing else afaik. the difference is that usually qualifiers are online only. MLG open bracket was always marketed as an actual park of the tournament.

justsayinbro

307 Posts

April 10 2013 08:02 GMT

#1423

don't consider code B but just reset for hots since its a "different" game lol. if bear plays a *proper match then we can chose to either go back to the list or continue on with hots.... or keep two list for unofficial champ of HoTs and sc2(continous)

but if we include code b then we need to retroactively apply it even at the event of previous champs changing imo. so if we do that we may not even have bear to deal with in the first place.

Deleted User 137586

7859 Posts

April 10 2013 08:06 GMT

#1424

Opterown, I don't see why you push "marketing as tournament" as a criterion. How the organizers call a tournament does not matter, right. The rules was originally worded to avoid offline cheating. Whether the tourney is called a tournament, qualifier, derby, challenger league, league, smashdown, etc. Does not matter.

kusto

Russian Federation823 Posts

April 10 2013 08:08 GMT

#1425

So, has the champion been defeated or does it not count?

opterown

Australia54784 Posts

April 10 2013 08:09 GMT

#1426

no, the way a tournament was marketed was quite important in deciding that showmatches didn't count.

i wrote the original rules, i know their intent, they were mainly to prevent things like cross-region play, lag, etc affecting players too much. i am open to changing them, but i am not completely convinced so far

dinosrwar

1290 Posts

April 10 2013 08:13 GMT

#1427

On April 10 2013 17:02 opterown wrote:
MLG open bracket has counted but nothing else afaik. the difference is that usually qualifiers are online only. MLG open bracket was always marketed as an actual park of the tournament.

Code A qualifiers are onsite + it's marketed as part of Blizzard's WCS. THE CHAMPION IS DEAD. Time to Panic.

TheBB

Switzerland5133 Posts

April 10 2013 08:14 GMT

#1428

On April 10 2013 17:09 opterown wrote:
no, the way a tournament was marketed was quite important in deciding that showmatches didn't count.

It makes more sense to decide this based on what a tournament is than what it says it is.

Anyway, FWIW Bear lost and now Panic is up against Zero.

opterown

Australia54784 Posts

April 10 2013 08:16 GMT

#1429

honestly i will probably end up counting this, partly due to popular opinion, but i still feel uneasy doing so

Dodgin

Canada39254 Posts

April 10 2013 08:17 GMT

#1430

whoever wins bear's group will be in code a and the UWC, then whoever beats that person in Code A will have it. Then hopefully it will cycle around in WCS/GSTL/proleague and be fun to follow again. Just make it count, sitting on an inactive champion is seriously boring. I don't get why you're being so stubborn about this, might as well just close the thread because the only thing to talk about is how there's nothing to talk about.

partydude89

1850 Posts

April 10 2013 08:19 GMT

#1431

On April 10 2013 17:16 opterown wrote:
honestly i will probably end up counting this, partly due to popular opinion, but i still feel uneasy doing so

i really hope you don't and stick with whats right. we had rules, so i say we stick with them. Not having a new champion for a while won't kill anyone, and it will be that much more exciting when we find a new champion

opterown

Australia54784 Posts

April 10 2013 08:22 GMT

#1432

alright, so how about this. PL lineups should be release next week. if bear is not scheduled to play in them, then i will count the code B bracket for UWC. i think that's not unreasonable. it's not about being anti-fun, it's about how this project started and being consistent

Rikiya

Japan87 Posts

April 10 2013 08:24 GMT

#1433

This could be one of the only chances of seeing Bear actually play ( unless we wait till next qualifer). He might not play in this proleague ever again. Proleague is getting closer to its final rounds so teams should be only sending there best. I would just add this as a WCS tournament.

Promethelax

Canada7089 Posts

April 10 2013 08:45 GMT

#1434

WCS contender division is not online and is broadcast live. That meets the qualifications we've always used. Winners are even guaranteed prize money. I'd call it pretty open and shut.

edit: spelling

zionsc

United States26 Posts

April 10 2013 08:46 GMT

#1435

I wouldn't mind if Bear continued to be UWC for the rest of time. But, personally I feel there's no question at all that Code A qualifiers should count. It's an offline tournament where everyone is going to try to win, with a lot of competitive pressure layered on top. I'm actually a bit surprised to find out that they didn't count in the past, even though they weren't broadcasted.

I remember in the first seasons of GSL, they referred to the ro128 or ro64, whichever it was, as the "first TV round," but the prior rounds were still considered as part of the bracket, of course. I've always assumed Code A was still operating in this way, where the qualifiers are the beginning segment, but then Code A is the cut-off for when it gets broadcasted. I'm curious if the qualifier brackets feed directly into Code A, or if it becomes re-seeded.

y0su

Finland7871 Posts

April 10 2013 08:46 GMT

#1436

On April 10 2013 17:45 Promethelax wrote:
WCS contender division is not online and is broadcast love. That meets the qualifications we've always used. Winners are even guaranteed prize money. I'd call it pretty open and shut.

Yeah, I totally understand the hesitation of using Code A qualifiers... However, this is no longer "code A qualifiers"... It's WCS contender division.

Martijn

Netherlands1219 Posts

April 10 2013 08:55 GMT

#1437

Arguments about it taking too long, that an inactive champion is boring, honestly throw those right out the window. They're not really relevant.

As far as I could tell, this is the first Code A qualifier that is streamed live from the venue and affects the UWC. We should check if any previous Code A qualifiers that were streamed from the event affected the UWC. Someone mentioned Wolf streamed some? From the event itself? Suppose I'll just ask him which ones and we can check.

The "qualifier" label shouldn't really change anything, the UWC in soccer counts world cup/euro cup qualifiers too. A qualifier in my eyes is still a tournament, a showmatch series isn't. It might not be the intent of the rule, but if we follow the rules, there's no reason this shouldn't count.

Coincidentally, probably the most stacked code A qualifier too ;p

Waxangel

United States33680 Posts

April 10 2013 09:06 GMT

#1438

On April 10 2013 17:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
Opterown, I don't see why you push "marketing as tournament" as a criterion. How the organizers call a tournament does not matter, right. The rules was originally worded to avoid offline cheating. Whether the tourney is called a tournament, qualifier, derby, challenger league, league, smashdown, etc. Does not matter.

you have a point, but in the case where it's very subjective as to what constitutes a serious tournament, what the organizer itself considers the tournament to be is as good a decider as any

Promethelax

Canada7089 Posts

April 10 2013 09:09 GMT

#1439

On April 10 2013 18:06 Waxangel wrote:

Show nested quote +

you have a point, but in the case where it's very subjective as to what constitutes a serious tournament, what the organizer itself considers the tournament to be is as good a decider as any

but I think the change of 'code A qualifier' to 'WCS contender division' suggests a change in the way the tournament is thought about by its organizers.