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On June 19 2012 13:06 StreetWise wrote:
Think of everyone like cups. Some are big and some are small. Think of practice like putting water in the cup. If you practice more you will fill your cup more. But there comes a point where if a big cup and small cup were to practice the same, the big cup would keep filling up and the little cup would hit its peak and overflow. People don't like to admit it, but there are people who are inherently better than them and no amount of practice will make up for it. You could still get more water in your cup that someone with a big cup, but thats because you spent more time than them. Thats what confuses people when it comes to being good.
being inherintly better doesnt mean everyone else has a skill celling
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On June 19 2012 13:06 StreetWise wrote:
Think of everyone like cups. Some are big and some are small. Think of practice like putting water in the cup. If you practice more you will fill your cup more. But there comes a point where if a big cup and small cup were to practice the same, the big cup would keep filling up and the little cup would hit its peak and overflow. People don't like to admit it, but there are people who are inherently better than them and no amount of practice will make up for it. You could still get more water in your cup that someone with a big cup, but thats because you spent more time than them. Thats what confuses people when it comes to being good.
Most people in the thread arent even understanding the question. This is a good analogy.
The question of the thread is, hoe can we tell how big some prople's cups are
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That example made no sense at all.
Nothing in SC2 can make it easier to calculate integers and derivatives.
And pro gamers already said that their success is mostly because of the effort they put in the game, not 'natural talent'.
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On June 19 2012 12:14 Alchemind wrote:I'm just curious on how people think why Pro's are Pro's beyond the actual strategies/mechanics, as the strategies/mechanics only came after the thought that resulted in said them.
I'll tell you why the pros are are what the pros are. People / societies are good at what they care about. In South Korea they care about being good at Starcraft, so they are effing good. In America we care about Football, so we are effing good at Football.
Us Americans trying to beat Koreans in Starcraft is like them deciding they want to beat America in Football, it would be a hell of an uphill battle. We foreigners have a lot of catching up to do because its not integrated in our kids yet like it is there in Korea.
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I think responds like the following misunderstand what the OP means:
On June 19 2012 12:30 Zenbrez wrote:
I don't like when people over think things. Jimi Hendrix didn't become one of the best guitar players of all time because he was born with the talent to make him the best. He became the best because of the hundreds of thousand hours of practice and dedication.
Even though someone put in as many hours as Jimi Hendrix, it does not mean he can reach the level of Jimi's.
The OP is not suggesting talent play such a big role that you can skip practising, but only putting someone ahead of others given they invest the same amount of time.
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On June 19 2012 13:15 cydial wrote:
Just look at the UC Berkley student that was at the last MLG, he gets good grades at an Ivy League school and made it pretty damn far in the open bracket for someone that's only been competitively (1 month of training) for a short time.
Who?
If you mean Suppy then he has been playing BW competitively since like 2007 ( according to liquipedia )
Cant add much to the topic, but college degree says very little about SC2 ability.
Anyone who is at least near average IQ , and doesnt have a medical condition - is able to get any degree - just needs passion for the subject ( and money to pay the uni ).
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SlayerS_BackHo (forgive my spelling) has some very tangible points on this topic; if you study the game, practice hard, and watch your replays every time you play, I don't think you can not make masters.
Attitude, personality and stress have a huge effect on your ability to learn and do well in any situation. Aptitude, I don't think, plays nearly as big a role in player development as people seem to think.
Also this thread has been posted before, yo.
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holy shit, my mind is fucking blown. smarter people are better at strategy games!!
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On June 19 2012 12:14 Alchemind wrote:
Or did I just blow your fucking mind
^result of overestimating ones own intellect
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I don't think IdrA has done a whole lot of studying physics or excelling recently, so I'm not sure why he's your sparkling example
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When speaking about skill ceiling or that really bad cup analogy, as far as I know not a single person with normal IQ has yet reached that ceiling or fulled that cup. Higher IQ people get a little more out of their practise so they improve a little more in a same amount of time. Atm you need to be some what above average IQ if you want to constantly stay on top like DRG or Polt and put most hours into the game. Also atm idra is performing poorly bc he hasnt putten enough time into the game lately, no matter how genious you are you need to put those hours in to win anything.
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On June 19 2012 13:56 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't think IdrA has done a whole lot of studying physics or excelling recently, so I'm not sure why he's your sparkling example
obviously theres a coorelation there
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Idra is good? LOL
I digress, he's good because he played the game a LOT.
smarter people are better at strategy games!!
Winner winner chicken dinner.
OMFG idra actually posted.
Please get some good finishes <3
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It's both and always has been. Dedication and hard work is a given. You can't be the best in the world at something without dedication and hard work.
And everyone is raised differently. Some people's environments will stress certain traits. even just consistent exposure
Some people's brains may emphasize specific thought processes, or way of thinking. Your ability to play this game, or any other activity/skill, is based on your genetics, enviornment, and hard work/dedication(practice/exposure). If I had to put a percentage on each, it'd be purely speculative, but I'd say 15% genetics, 35% environment, and 50% hard work/dedication.
maybe you've never had to think the same way you do when playing SC2, so you started in bronze. That doesn't mean you can't be GM, it just means you'll probably need more practice and hard work to get there because you don't have as much past experience. I know I loved playing Warcraft 1, 2, and SC:BW when I was a little kid. I was also the best chess player in the greater Atlanta area for my age group (I was 9). I picked up SC2 and I started in master and now GM. I'd be stupid to not point back to my childhood and know why this game comes easy to me. But that doesn't mean I don't have dedication/passion for this game and practice is what helped me improve at a faster rate.
Someone who has no RTS experience but is a high level chess player might start in bronze or silver because he's new to the game and/or poor with his mouse speed / keyboard bindings / platform in general. He just needs more practice and he'll bridge that gap and can definitely be GM. He'll learn how the concepts he already knows can be transcribed to Starcraft.
We all come from different backgrounds, and yet we can all pull similarities from our past experiences and notice how they relate to Starcraft. I think all pros can relate life to Starcraft. When you study a skill or profession for so long that you truly master it, you'll notice even the most detailed of details spark epiphanies of resemblence to other phenomenons in life
Always learn something during practice; If you don't learn something new every day, you're doing it wrong ^_-
same can be said for life, go figure  <3
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this is such a stupid thread. if you work harder, you get more out of your practice. it has nothing to do with physics studying or whatever.
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People excel better than others given the same amount of time because one practices and tries to learn more efficiently.
Some people will focus all their efforts in correcting their mistakes and aim to get better while others whine and complain before attempting to fix their mistakes.
That's why you tend to notice people who do well in one thing, generally do well in almost anything else. It's really not that hard to understand.
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hard work is everything.
Maybe you can call someone talented, but that is only because they put effort on other related things in life that might have carried over. Saying that your forever bronze doesn't mean that you're fucking bad. Maybe you haven't realized some key concepts yet or are not willing to put up with the stress of learning. The same could be applied to english IQ tests not being perfectly accurate for non-native english speakers.
And my mind is still intact, thanks for your concern.
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On June 19 2012 12:30 Zenbrez wrote:
I don't like when people over think things. Jimi Hendrix didn't become one of the best guitar players of all time because he was born with the talent to make him the best. He became the best because of the hundreds of thousand hours of practice and dedication.
No, he became as good as he was because he had musical talent.
All in all, compared to today's guitarists, Jimi is bad from a technical view, I can play faster and mroe accurately than he did.
So, what made Jimi unique? He revolutionized electric guitar playing, he came up with completely new ideas and so on, that is something that while can be learned to a certain degree, creativeness is a talent, not a skill
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EPT
