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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
Thought something funky was going on judging by the scoreline. Hilarious he still lost lolol.
Bye Spades.
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On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah..
Online tournaments exist.
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On June 05 2012 04:49 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:45 Insane wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:40 LoraX wrote:
Spades is honestly a huge piece of shit, and constantly disgracing the community with shit like this plus his racist comments towards koreans in the past. Honestly can't wait for this loser to disappear. honestly you don't know the background of that comment. There was a big bm fight between Hwangsin and Spades, and spades only said the comment after a lot of egging on by hwangsin. and Spades said sorry almost instantly. This community loves to witch hunt so much that its seriously annoying. Lets first take a deep breath and approach this rationally. Not that I'm defending his racist comments, but it's his history of being a hacker in that past that seem relevant to this. It's not necessarily true that "once a hacker, always a hacker", but it's a relatively good rough rule, especially with someone with Spades' personality, so it's not at all surprising to see him hacking again. but you have to remember a lot of people hacked in bw. and only 3 of them get any shit from it. Dimaga hacked, haypro hacked. both players who are crowd favorites nowadays. I'm just saying that a lot of people have history, and I don't think any current sc2 pro has never hacked a multiplayer game in their life. everyone does stupid shit, we shouldn't say that because someone did it 4-5 years ago means they would do it again just as quickly. Lets just think everything through before going all apeshit on Spades.
Dimaga didn't hack afaik.
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On June 05 2012 04:50 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:47 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:46 Pantythief wrote:
This isn't news. It's news that he is using them in show matches. Since when is that news? Do you have a link to another time that Spades has hacking in a pro tournament/showmatch?
I honestly don't, but it's definitely not the first time I've heard of this.
Hacking seems to be the flavour of the month, so I'm sure if you do a bit of digging abouts it'll be easy to find.
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On June 05 2012 04:49 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:47 aike wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 Msr wrote:On June 05 2012 04:42 aike wrote:On June 05 2012 04:38 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:37 aike wrote:
I haven't watched the replays here because I can't right now... but reading your descriptions makes me lol. You are basically describing the way a low level progamer plays. Nothing you have said is conclusive and it's kinda BM to just come out and call somebody a hacker without actual proof. I've seen plenty of games where idra minimizes in the middle to talk with stream chat or w/e. So there's plenty of reasons somebody could have to not be doing anything with the camera just sitting there. The key is to see if anything is actually happening while the camera is just sitting there with no APM... like if his units are being micro'd but there's no APM. You don't think un-siegeing a fortified position to go defend a base that you did not know was soon to be attacked is suspicious? Several instances of this in the same game is not gosu game sense, it's pretty strong evidence to some sort of cheating. On June 05 2012 04:38 VPFaith wrote:
"2:14 He sends the SCV without looking at where he's sending it and the camera gets blocked for 4 secs. However, he doesn't even look at LucifroN's base when the SCV reach it."
That's a big giveaway to map hack... because at grandmaster level, if you don't even have the apm to micro your scouting scv, you should not be in GM. Period. This too. I'm sure if you watched replays of flash in BW you'd think shit he did was suspicious too. So sure, I think some of this stuff is suspicious, but none of it is conclusive. Ok I realize you might not play at the level to see why things he does is hack opposed to game sense and other things, but any average-skilled player will see what he did/does as maphack. He has hacked in the past yet you give him the benefit of the doubt? Pathetic imo... I give him the benefit of the doubt over a 1 post account any day of the week. This has nothing to do with my skill level, nice try bringing that into the conversation though. The things he does in these games are suspicious, nothing more. Anytime you actually look for suspicious behavior in games, you will find it. From bronze league to GM to bonjwa you will always find something that seems suspicious, so this is not enough to convict somebody of hacking. Did you watch the replays? Or are you blindly defending like a lot of people blindly attack figures in this community. Everyone needs to see the replays to make their own decision. That said, the replays show very suspicious activity, enough so to convince me.
Did you read everything I wrote? Or are you blindly responding to one of my posts? Everyone should read an entire conversation before commenting on it.
That said, based on what the OP has stated... things are suspicious, but not conclusive. Personally I don't even like spades, nor care about him, so honestly I don't care if he's a hacker or not. What I do care about is everybody just jumping on the witch hunt band wagon just because some guy with 1 post on TL says that he's hacking.
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On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist.
He said tournaments that mattered.
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On June 05 2012 04:50 Otolia wrote:
I watched some of the replays very swiftly and this combined to the fact that the OP has only one post makes me think it's just a smear campaign.
The fact you use someones post count to determine whether what they say is factual or not instantly removes any grain of credability from your opinion entirely.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist. He said tournaments that mattered.
TSL for example ?
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On June 05 2012 04:51 Tigi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:49 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:45 Insane wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:40 LoraX wrote:
Spades is honestly a huge piece of shit, and constantly disgracing the community with shit like this plus his racist comments towards koreans in the past. Honestly can't wait for this loser to disappear. honestly you don't know the background of that comment. There was a big bm fight between Hwangsin and Spades, and spades only said the comment after a lot of egging on by hwangsin. and Spades said sorry almost instantly. This community loves to witch hunt so much that its seriously annoying. Lets first take a deep breath and approach this rationally. Not that I'm defending his racist comments, but it's his history of being a hacker in that past that seem relevant to this. It's not necessarily true that "once a hacker, always a hacker", but it's a relatively good rough rule, especially with someone with Spades' personality, so it's not at all surprising to see him hacking again. but you have to remember a lot of people hacked in bw. and only 3 of them get any shit from it. Dimaga hacked, haypro hacked. both players who are crowd favorites nowadays. I'm just saying that a lot of people have history, and I don't think any current sc2 pro has never hacked a multiplayer game in their life. everyone does stupid shit, we shouldn't say that because someone did it 4-5 years ago means they would do it again just as quickly. Lets just think everything through before going all apeshit on Spades. Dimaga didn't hack afaik.
TSL ladder from what I can remember
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107745
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I just want to play devil's advocate. What if camera blocks are him going to grab his glass of coke or something? Are there still actions still going on while the camera is blocked?
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I'll watch the replays when I get home. Cloack banshee opener is a very common tvt opener, and very often I choose to throw down an ebay instead of burning a scan or building a repear (ebays are only 125 and you kinda gonna need one anyway). Most pro-terrans know the banshee timing,
Also when your first viking pops, you always put it into position immediately, even if you don't know what your enemy is doing, that is very basic level starsense.
If i get home and this ends up being nothing, we should permaban you for starting up shit for no reason.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist. He said tournaments that mattered.
You can make a lot of money from online tourneys
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Loool. Man I knew from the get go when I first heard him speak in an interview that this guy didn't have his ethics straightened out enough to be a progamer. I mean you can be a badass and BM, but I'm talking about ethical things like not cheating lol.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Tigi wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:45 Insane wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:40 LoraX wrote:
Spades is honestly a huge piece of shit, and constantly disgracing the community with shit like this plus his racist comments towards koreans in the past. Honestly can't wait for this loser to disappear. honestly you don't know the background of that comment. There was a big bm fight between Hwangsin and Spades, and spades only said the comment after a lot of egging on by hwangsin. and Spades said sorry almost instantly. This community loves to witch hunt so much that its seriously annoying. Lets first take a deep breath and approach this rationally. Not that I'm defending his racist comments, but it's his history of being a hacker in that past that seem relevant to this. It's not necessarily true that "once a hacker, always a hacker", but it's a relatively good rough rule, especially with someone with Spades' personality, so it's not at all surprising to see him hacking again. but you have to remember a lot of people hacked in bw. and only 3 of them get any shit from it. Dimaga hacked, haypro hacked. both players who are crowd favorites nowadays. I'm just saying that a lot of people have history, and I don't think any current sc2 pro has never hacked a multiplayer game in their life. everyone does stupid shit, we shouldn't say that because someone did it 4-5 years ago means they would do it again just as quickly. Lets just think everything through before going all apeshit on Spades. Dimaga didn't hack afaik. TSL ladder from what I can remember http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107745
Yes i know, that's not hacking, just wanted to clarify things.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist. He said tournaments that mattered.
If measured by prestige, then yeah, LANs are the only tournaments that matter, but online tournaments also have a lot of money attached to them.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 Tigi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:52 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist. He said tournaments that mattered. TSL for example ?
Bad example.
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On June 05 2012 04:52 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 04:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On June 05 2012 04:47 INCHymn wrote:
People need to stop frustrating themselves over this. They will never be able to use it in tournaments that matter. What a ridiculous comment. Of course they can use it in tournaments!!! "Hey MLG guys, ya, here's what, I'm just gonna install this..eh...software...thing..it won't take long, k, thx." Nah.. Online tournaments exist. He said tournaments that mattered.
TSL? NASL? I guess those don't matter...
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On June 05 2012 04:52 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:51 Tigi wrote:On June 05 2012 04:49 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:45 Insane wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:40 LoraX wrote:
Spades is honestly a huge piece of shit, and constantly disgracing the community with shit like this plus his racist comments towards koreans in the past. Honestly can't wait for this loser to disappear. honestly you don't know the background of that comment. There was a big bm fight between Hwangsin and Spades, and spades only said the comment after a lot of egging on by hwangsin. and Spades said sorry almost instantly. This community loves to witch hunt so much that its seriously annoying. Lets first take a deep breath and approach this rationally. Not that I'm defending his racist comments, but it's his history of being a hacker in that past that seem relevant to this. It's not necessarily true that "once a hacker, always a hacker", but it's a relatively good rough rule, especially with someone with Spades' personality, so it's not at all surprising to see him hacking again. but you have to remember a lot of people hacked in bw. and only 3 of them get any shit from it. Dimaga hacked, haypro hacked. both players who are crowd favorites nowadays. I'm just saying that a lot of people have history, and I don't think any current sc2 pro has never hacked a multiplayer game in their life. everyone does stupid shit, we shouldn't say that because someone did it 4-5 years ago means they would do it again just as quickly. Lets just think everything through before going all apeshit on Spades. Dimaga didn't hack afaik. TSL ladder from what I can remember http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107745
Right, he didn't hack, he ladder abused for like 2 games.
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United States4991 Posts
On June 05 2012 04:49 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:45 Insane wrote:On June 05 2012 04:44 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 04:40 LoraX wrote:
Spades is honestly a huge piece of shit, and constantly disgracing the community with shit like this plus his racist comments towards koreans in the past. Honestly can't wait for this loser to disappear. honestly you don't know the background of that comment. There was a big bm fight between Hwangsin and Spades, and spades only said the comment after a lot of egging on by hwangsin. and Spades said sorry almost instantly. This community loves to witch hunt so much that its seriously annoying. Lets first take a deep breath and approach this rationally. Not that I'm defending his racist comments, but it's his history of being a hacker in that past that seem relevant to this. It's not necessarily true that "once a hacker, always a hacker", but it's a relatively good rough rule, especially with someone with Spades' personality, so it's not at all surprising to see him hacking again. but you have to remember a lot of people hacked in bw. and only 3 of them get any shit from it. Dimaga hacked, haypro hacked. both players who are crowd favorites nowadays. I'm just saying that a lot of people have history, and I don't think any current sc2 pro has never hacked a multiplayer game in their life. everyone does stupid shit, we shouldn't say that because someone did it 4-5 years ago means they would do it again just as quickly. Lets just think everything through before going all apeshit on Spades.
To my knowledge Dimaga never hacked, so it would be good to not sully his name for nothing  . He abused in the TSL ladder, and he deserves shit for that, but that's not as grievous as actually hacking.
I never said they would do it again as quickly, but if somone was willing to hack before then they're more likely to do it again. A lot of players (even young ones) have a fundamental "block" about hacking, and players who have hacked in the past have already shown that they lack that block. Learning morals is harder than fundamentally having them.
Haypro is highly unlikely to hack given his living situation (can't really hack when other competitive players are going to see your screen).
e: well I was beaten many times over by 1 liner posts with regards to Dimaga not being a hacker during the time I was writing this post, but whatever.
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EPT
