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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 06:12 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community Hey, let's pretend it's IdrA and iNcontroL who are accused of hacking. Top GMs who don't have very good MLG records the last year or so. No wait, let's pick on Destiny instead. We already have a good big group of people who want to ruin him. Look at where he was eliminated from tourneys by players Slurgi, Edge, and Titan. Anyone ever heard of them? tl;dr, even going 0-2, 0-2 in the open won't prove anything. Spades apparently was good enough to be a GM without cheating so wins and losses against other players we likely have never heard of isn't going to mean anything. I have heard of both Edge and Titan ... assuming that is the Russian Titan
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On June 06 2012 06:17 yawnoC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:12 dvorakftw wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community Hey, let's pretend it's IdrA and iNcontroL who are accused of hacking. Top GMs who don't have very good MLG records the last year or so. No wait, let's pick on Destiny instead. We already have a good big group of people who want to ruin him. Look at where he was eliminated from tourneys by players Slurgi, Edge, and Titan. Anyone ever heard of them? tl;dr, even going 0-2, 0-2 in the open won't prove anything. Spades apparently was good enough to be a GM without cheating so wins and losses against other players we likely have never heard of isn't going to mean anything. I have heard of both Edge and Titan ... assuming that is the Russian Titan
I have heard of the american titan, we complete each other!!
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On June 06 2012 06:16 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:08 Fyrewolf wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:04 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 06 2012 05:57 s4life wrote:
A player's career has been literally finished off over backhanded vendettas and inconclusive evidence. It was disgusting seing how things unfolded.. shame on this community. completely false, if the accusation was baseless all he had to do is come out and say "hey dumbass, i've done nothing wrong, ur evidence is wrong because [fill in the blanks], go fuck yourself" Instead he retires. I already wrote in the other thread, i had similar experience, nobody would act like he did unless he's guilty as fuck or he is being professional. Although the last 2-3 have been tolerable, the last thing anyone should call spades' posts in this thread is "professional". i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. I would normally agree, but there's a lot more behind the scenes with teams that the public never sees to attribute it all solely to his own action to try to protect ww by leaving, and more importantly the deja vu from the last time he was caught hacking and denied it for 2 years is too powerful in its similarity to now for me not to have doubts about his credibility.
i can only comment on what they tell me. not what they do behind closed doors and tell no one.
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On June 06 2012 06:16 gasmeter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:14 NKB wrote:
I would just like to say that through this entire almost 200 page thread the person who made the OP is still on one post, you would have thought that after showing this evidence they would have carried on posting just to show it was conclusive. There has already been much speculation about this. Please see this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=All
Thank you for linking this thread, I hadn't seen this one 
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On June 05 2012 22:26 SkelA wrote:
Where there is smoke there is fire.
I cant say I understand the evidence because I dont play SC2 and only watching SC2 here and there but in this thread the general consensus is that Spades is indeed hacking in that showmatch.
From what i remember Spades has been caught hacking more than once in BW and every time he denied it just like now. You dont need to go through all of his ladder replays to confirm if he is hacking or not. In a showmatch where he plays 7 games and he does suspicious stuff in ALL of his games than that is more than enough proof that he is hacking.
I've been following the BW scene for a long time and even myself I've caught some famous hackers back in the days and with a level of drama of this magnitude there is always been confirmed that the acused have been indeed hacking. The only exeption I can think of is the case with Mistrzzz where ppl ganged up on him because he was actually good and had a personality of a love child from Idra and a clown. Even the guy that acused him was caught using maphack just a few months after that incident. Everyone was sure that he hacked but he proved himself with good results and using fp vods of him everytime when he played.
What's more amusing is the fact that MistrZZZ recorded some of those FPVODs in secret. There was one Bo3 (or Bo5) where he played XiaoZi, who accused him of hacking after the game. It was hilarious when MistrZZZ uploaded the vods from that series. ;p
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On June 06 2012 03:23 Felnarion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. It'd be nice if you specifically addressed why you use the minimap so much in these games, but not the ladder pack. Also, your thoughts about some of the top things in the thread would go a lot toward helping us understand. Specifically, your movements in the middle of Antiga, your complete lack of watching the SCV when you scout with it, and the cross spawn scan on Antiga without scouting.
Or never rallying or looking into the fog of war in maphack games but on stream he always looks into fog of war like every other player.
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On June 06 2012 06:15 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:08 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 06:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 06:02 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 05:58 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 05:57 s4life wrote:
A player's career has been literally finished off over backhanded vendettas and inconclusive evidence. It was disgusting seing how things unfolded.. shame on this community. "backhanded vendettas" to what does this refer to? You should read WW manager's posts. I read those posts. I've read this whole thread, all nearly 200 pages of it. Still unsure how this phrase applies. Is there evidence of anyone having a vendetta against Spades? If so, please provide? Mirhi's posts I just told you I read those. I know who he is. What about his posts specifically shows that he has a 'vendetta' against Spades? You mean you didn't read the part where Mirhi threw him under the bus?
Yeah, I read the part that Mirhi thinks he's a cheater, and said so.
Does this mean he had a vendetta against Spades? Please show me the evidence of why he would.
Did Gix have a vendetta against him? Did CatZ, Drewbie, or Illusion? Why should I believe they have a vendetta? Just because they have nothing to possibly gain other than revenge?
What if there are some people who just generally can't stand people that are known cheaters, and want to make them pay and set an example? If that is what you are referring to as a vendetta, then I guess I agree.
But we should all hold vendettas then. Cheaters should pay the price when caught.
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Everyone that posted in this thread should check out the TL Mafia forum :p
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On June 06 2012 06:16 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:14 NKB wrote:
I would just like to say that through this entire almost 200 page thread the person who made the OP is still on one post, you would have thought that after showing this evidence they would have carried on posting just to show it was conclusive. If the OP lacked substance and was making baseless accusations without putting in the legwork of specific timestamped review of each replay, and did already provide multiple replays, I would be inclined to agree.
Star, get out of these threads bro, nothing but Strawmen and red sea bass herrings in these threads.
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Italy12248 Posts
Stream cheating in a few matches isn't hacking, and appearently that statement came from a misunderstanding between Artist and Mihri.
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That's not even close to what the thread is really about.
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I have a really hard time to understand someone who use hacks. If I win because of something unjustified, I do not feel any satisfaction at all.
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everyone is ignoring my posts lol i guess someone who hacked for years is not credible enough oh well anyways if i could somehow get credebility i would but i don't know how since i do not hack anymore.
Guys he hacks he does not use camera lock he does not use whatever else you said he did, he simply uses the production tab hack and the full open minimap hack.
He uses an internal mapahck It took for me to be reset to stop , stopped hacking and changed races because terran is the go to race for hackers mostly.
edit: Cora its just a competetive thing once i stopped i got so much better its insane hacks detered from my playskill so much.....
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On June 06 2012 06:21 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:16 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 06:14 NKB wrote:
I would just like to say that through this entire almost 200 page thread the person who made the OP is still on one post, you would have thought that after showing this evidence they would have carried on posting just to show it was conclusive. If the OP lacked substance and was making baseless accusations without putting in the legwork of specific timestamped review of each replay, and did already provide multiple replays, I would be inclined to agree. Star, get out of these threads bro, nothing but Strawmen and red sea bass herrings in these threads.
That's why I'm here bro, trying to provide reason to reasonable people in a sea of shite.
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On June 06 2012 06:17 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:17 yawnoC wrote:On June 06 2012 06:12 dvorakftw wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community Hey, let's pretend it's IdrA and iNcontroL who are accused of hacking. Top GMs who don't have very good MLG records the last year or so. No wait, let's pick on Destiny instead. We already have a good big group of people who want to ruin him. Look at where he was eliminated from tourneys by players Slurgi, Edge, and Titan. Anyone ever heard of them? tl;dr, even going 0-2, 0-2 in the open won't prove anything. Spades apparently was good enough to be a GM without cheating so wins and losses against other players we likely have never heard of isn't going to mean anything. I have heard of both Edge and Titan ... assuming that is the Russian Titan I have heard of the american titan, we complete each other!! BY OUR POWERS COMBINED!
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On June 06 2012 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:16 Fyrewolf wrote:On June 06 2012 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:08 Fyrewolf wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:04 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 06 2012 05:57 s4life wrote:
A player's career has been literally finished off over backhanded vendettas and inconclusive evidence. It was disgusting seing how things unfolded.. shame on this community. completely false, if the accusation was baseless all he had to do is come out and say "hey dumbass, i've done nothing wrong, ur evidence is wrong because [fill in the blanks], go fuck yourself" Instead he retires. I already wrote in the other thread, i had similar experience, nobody would act like he did unless he's guilty as fuck or he is being professional. Although the last 2-3 have been tolerable, the last thing anyone should call spades' posts in this thread is "professional". i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. I would normally agree, but there's a lot more behind the scenes with teams that the public never sees to attribute it all solely to his own action to try to protect ww by leaving, and more importantly the deja vu from the last time he was caught hacking and denied it for 2 years is too powerful in its similarity to now for me not to have doubts about his credibility. i can only comment on what they tell me. not what they do behind closed doors and tell no one.
Fair enough. How ww and spades are handling it with the announcement is professional enough. The deja vu of how he responds to the second round of hacking accusations is still hilarious though;)
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On June 06 2012 06:11 PleasureImWallace wrote:
#1) gix's post speaks wonders to me. You don't go from rank 38 masters to an 80% win rate just because of a change in climate
#2) I don't really get this whole "whelp, you guys think I'm hacking, guess my career is done" jumping to quit stuff. I feel like if you really were trying to improve and be a good, solid player, you wouldn't instantly quit when someone accuses you of cheating
1. Change of climate, probably not. But how about if you are a GM, get burnt out on the game and drop down to masters because you are playing poker and other games, then for a month refocus on nothing but Starcraft?
2. Last I saw he didn't quit but rather just left the team which is entirely understandable whether he is innocent or not.
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On June 06 2012 06:27 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:16 Fyrewolf wrote:On June 06 2012 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:08 Fyrewolf wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 06:04 Geo.Rion wrote:On June 06 2012 05:57 s4life wrote:
A player's career has been literally finished off over backhanded vendettas and inconclusive evidence. It was disgusting seing how things unfolded.. shame on this community. completely false, if the accusation was baseless all he had to do is come out and say "hey dumbass, i've done nothing wrong, ur evidence is wrong because [fill in the blanks], go fuck yourself" Instead he retires. I already wrote in the other thread, i had similar experience, nobody would act like he did unless he's guilty as fuck or he is being professional. Although the last 2-3 have been tolerable, the last thing anyone should call spades' posts in this thread is "professional". i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. I would normally agree, but there's a lot more behind the scenes with teams that the public never sees to attribute it all solely to his own action to try to protect ww by leaving, and more importantly the deja vu from the last time he was caught hacking and denied it for 2 years is too powerful in its similarity to now for me not to have doubts about his credibility. i can only comment on what they tell me. not what they do behind closed doors and tell no one. Fair enough. How ww and spades are handling it with the announcement is professional enough. The deja vu of how he responds to the second round of hacking accusations is still hilarious though;)
you can't really read into how he responds as people respnd different ways when they are outed like this cmon...his career is already ruined and he got caught hacking.... nothing he can do about it, i know people who still hack and even they say all his movements are hackish the rubbish about the camera lock and the other crap that he was outed first for is not possible but his gameplay screams I HACK!!!
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im hoping to have some follow up on this:
On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
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EPT
