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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:08 Defacer wrote: You're trying to explain the concept of professionalism to TL. Good luck. Yes, good luck explaining professionalism to a group of users who think messaging sponsors is a practical way to get your point across, and grabbing pitch forks is a proper way to treat unproven claims.. You'd have more luck training a bear to ride a bicycle. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:04 Geo.Rion wrote: completely false, if the accusation was baseless all he had to do is come out and say "hey dumbass, i've done nothing wrong, ur evidence is wrong because [fill in the blanks], go fuck yourself" Instead he retires. I already wrote in the other thread, i had similar experience, nobody would act like he did unless he's guilty as fuck How do you suppose he does that? there is no statistically reliable method to prove or disprove hacking in SC2. It would his opinion against his accusers'. | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:08 Fyrewolf wrote: Although the last 2-3 have been tolerable, the last thing anyone should call spades' posts in this thread is "professional". i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:09 las91 wrote: Circumstantial evidence has done a lot worse to far more innocent human beings than Spades. Ahh, so you're point is that because it's done worse, let's continue the trend? Your argument makes no point, other than admitting that circumstantial evidence fucks innocent people. | ||
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PleasureImWallace
Canada45 Posts
#2) I don't really get this whole "whelp, you guys think I'm hacking, guess my career is done" jumping to quit stuff. I feel like if you really were trying to improve and be a good, solid player, you wouldn't instantly quit when someone accuses you of cheating | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Or he learned from being caught earlier that if he adamantly refuses being a cheat, and then real proof actually does get out (someone hacks his comp just for shits and giggles?) then what's he gonna look like? Maybe it's damage control. WW move sure looks to me like damage control. But we may never know. Hopefully he makes a good showing in MLG and gets past this, but if he did hack, I'd have 0 sympathy. | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:06 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Spades was just removed from his team... Good job community, be proud that with circumstancial evidence you can get a professional player dismissed from his career... That because of frustration on ladder matches, you can message sponsors and damage a team's income and ability to play in tournaments... This is Starcraft 2, and as a community we thrive at being fucking imbeciles, I've been curious as to why pro players shun us collectively, and now I know why. You're comparing two entirely different incidents with entirely different responses and entirely different attitudes by the community. Please don't pretend to speak for the community that you obviously hold such disdain and bile for if you can't even understand the difference between ignorant bandwagoneers and people who actually give a shit and are trying to make this place better by giving the evidence an honest examination then appropriately taking out the trash. | ||
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BlackGosu
Canada1046 Posts
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote: Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community Hey, let's pretend it's IdrA and iNcontroL who are accused of hacking. Top GMs who don't have very good MLG records the last year or so. No wait, let's pick on Destiny instead. We already have a good big group of people who want to ruin him. Look at where he was eliminated from tourneys by players Slurgi, Edge, and Titan. Anyone ever heard of them? tl;dr, even going 0-2, 0-2 in the open won't prove anything. Spades apparently was good enough to be a GM without cheating so wins and losses against other players we likely have never heard of isn't going to mean anything. | ||
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discomatt
113 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote: i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. For all we know, he was kicked off the team - They just gave him the chance to 'retire' and save face. Many companies do this as well. We just don't know. | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:10 zefreak wrote: Complaining about the 'community' is the new fad. Soon the whole community will consist of people expressing shame and disgust with said community. lol. 'The I Hate Bandwagoneers' bandwagon is getting mighty full. | ||
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NKB
United Kingdom608 Posts
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:08 StarStrider wrote: I just told you I read those. I know who he is. What about his posts specifically shows that he has a 'vendetta' against Spades? You mean you didn't read the part where Mirhi threw him under the bus? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:14 discomatt wrote: For all we know, he was kicked off the team - They just gave him the chance to 'retire' and save face. Many companies do this as well. We just don't know. seems very plausible. | ||
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las91
United States5080 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:11 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Ahh, so you're point is that because it's done worse, let's continue the trend? Your argument makes no point, other than admitting that circumstantial evidence fucks innocent people. My argument is that circumstantial evidence has been used in the justice system for quite a while, and to dismiss a set of accusations based on circumstantial evidence is idiotic at worst and misguided at best. The community did what it thought was right, and instead of rolling over on the ground and dying Spades had plenty of time to dismiss the claims. Instead he goes on a counter-attack against the people making the claims and never addressing the claims themselves. Either he has learned nothing in his past experience as a hacker that has been caught or cares so little about the ethical questions of maphacking (the reason behind why people are upset over the damn issue in the first place) that he has simply decided to try and hurt other human beings instead of dismissing the accusations against him. Either way, it's not something a presumably innocent person would have done right out the get go (see the most recent Leenock/MVP tweets where they respond to the accusations of cheating with something along the lines of "Lolwut?"). | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:14 NKB wrote: I would just like to say that through this entire almost 200 page thread the person who made the OP is still on one post, you would have thought that after showing this evidence they would have carried on posting just to show it was conclusive. If the OP lacked substance and was making baseless accusations without putting in the legwork of specific timestamped review of each replay, and did already provide multiple replays, I would be inclined to agree. | ||
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gasmeter
United Kingdom249 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:14 NKB wrote: I would just like to say that through this entire almost 200 page thread the person who made the OP is still on one post, you would have thought that after showing this evidence they would have carried on posting just to show it was conclusive. There has already been much speculation about this. Please see this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=All | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On June 06 2012 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote: i was referring to the fact that he denies the allegations but is retiring from his team so that the team isn't negatively impacted by the negative publicity he is receiving. i wasn't referring to his posts in this thread. I would normally agree, but there's a lot more behind the scenes with teams that the public never sees to attribute it all solely to his own action to try to protect ww by leaving, and more importantly the deja vu from the last time he was caught hacking and denied it for 2 years is too powerful in its similarity to now for me not to have doubts about his credibility. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
Perhaps if he's guilty he can try to clean up his record by performing well on LAN but I doubt that will happen. I will never tolerate cheating in competitive online gaming, it's bullshit. | ||
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