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On May 12 2012 11:13 FabreCmac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:57 poorcloud wrote:
He will be good not because he owns at BW, or because he has this RTS mystery talent that everyone seems to believe in.
He will dominate the SC2 scene if he just keeps up with his practice. Because he is the hardest worker out there, and a guy who thinks about the game non-stop. Not because he has faster hands/better reflexes/some inborn RTS talent. I disagree with you sir. It's true that Flash did not have to fastest hands in the BW scene, but he dominated because of his amazing decision making and "inborn RTS talent." If it were as simple as working the hardest than guys like IdrA would be at the top, progamers who have played 12 hours a day since beta. Saying talent has nothing to do with it is just ludicrous and doesn't make sense when you look at the empirical evidence of practice hours vs. results. Even in an interview done with Hwanni he states explicitly that it was talent that separated the BW greats from the rest of the pack who played the exact same amount as they did.
Saying talent is all he does, is like implement an attitude of fix mind set, ahhh shit this is how I born with and I can't change anything. Come on when come to complex staff and activity, talent is really noting to do much with it and there's quite a lot of research shows that talent is irreverent when come to the highest level of play. Talent is just an illusion of deliberate practise/
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Not impressed, yes I said it!!!
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It's like watching Bruce Lee doing ballet.
EDIT: And what happened to Flash's legendary practice regimen? There's a starleague on!
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People need to stop having such huge expectations. He's talented no doubt, but only with years of playing started at a young age did he get so good.
SC2 is such a different game that much of the mechanics don't even transfer over. Game sense/timing will start from 0. I think he said it will take him 3 years to be as good as he was in BW. I think that might be A BIT optimistic (he's played BW for like twice that amount of time, and now he also has that wrist problem..), but I'd be pretty happy if he did.
Good thing Flash has a great attitude, otherwise he'd crumble to all this pressure.
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Saying talent is all he does, is like implement an attitude of fix mind set, ahhh shit this is how I born with and I can't change anything. Come on when come to complex staff and activity, talent is really noting to do much with it and there's quite a lot of research shows that talent is irreverent when come to the highest level of play. Talent is just an illusion of deliberate practise/
I think that talent is inside a person's body right next to the soul, behind their chi. Have you ever seen a talent? All talented people are talented because they're talented, otherwise they wouldn't be talented. They got talented because they're talented.
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On May 12 2012 11:39 bowenkhong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 11:13 FabreCmac wrote:On May 12 2012 10:57 poorcloud wrote:
He will be good not because he owns at BW, or because he has this RTS mystery talent that everyone seems to believe in.
He will dominate the SC2 scene if he just keeps up with his practice. Because he is the hardest worker out there, and a guy who thinks about the game non-stop. Not because he has faster hands/better reflexes/some inborn RTS talent. I disagree with you sir. It's true that Flash did not have to fastest hands in the BW scene, but he dominated because of his amazing decision making and "inborn RTS talent." If it were as simple as working the hardest than guys like IdrA would be at the top, progamers who have played 12 hours a day since beta. Saying talent has nothing to do with it is just ludicrous and doesn't make sense when you look at the empirical evidence of practice hours vs. results. Even in an interview done with Hwanni he states explicitly that it was talent that separated the BW greats from the rest of the pack who played the exact same amount as they did. Saying talent is all he does, is like implement an attitude of fix mind set, ahhh shit this is how I born with and I can't change anything. Come on when come to complex staff and activity, talent is really noting to do much with it and there's quite a lot of research shows that talent is irreverent when come to the highest level of play. Talent is just an illusion of deliberate practise/
I can't tell if this is a lie or sheer ignorance. If it's the latter then congrats; they always said ignorance is bliss, so you must be very, very happy.
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I can't tell if this is a lie or sheer ignorance. If it's the latter then congrats; they always said ignorance is bliss, so you must be very, very happy.
There's more evidence to suggest that Flash is one of the hardest working people on the planet, working with some of the best practice partners and best trainers on the planet, than there is evidence to suggest that he is the most talented. Talent is this imaginary thing that people bring up whenever they can't explain where performance comes from.
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On May 12 2012 11:52 Snoodles wrote:Show nested quote +
I can't tell if this is a lie or sheer ignorance. If it's the latter then congrats; they always said ignorance is bliss, so you must be very, very happy.
There's more evidence to suggest that Flash is one of the hardest working people on the planet, working with some of the best practice partners and best trainers on the planet, than there is evidence to suggest that he is the most talented. Talent is this imaginary thing that people bring up whenever they can't explain where performance comes from.
yeah, especially americans like to use talent as an excuse for other people being better than themselves
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He's really good for the amount of time he has been playing this game.Like Flash said himself though is that it'll take him a few years to become god-like at sc2. It'll actually even longer than he thinks though just because of the expansions and how the game will change because of them in the next while.
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Flash is talented, but his success is a result of VERY hard work. Being talented is just a head start, it's not worth anything unless you put in the work.
Then again, I guess you could argue that being able to train that efficiently for such extended periods of time is a talent in itself. It's all about how you define "talent".
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It's like giving Picasso crayons.
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On May 12 2012 11:52 Snoodles wrote:Show nested quote +
I can't tell if this is a lie or sheer ignorance. If it's the latter then congrats; they always said ignorance is bliss, so you must be very, very happy.
There's more evidence to suggest that Flash is one of the hardest working people on the planet, working with some of the best practice partners and best trainers on the planet, than there is evidence to suggest that he is the most talented. Talent is this imaginary thing that people bring up whenever they can't explain where performance comes from.
Then how do you explain the fact that all his teammates who also practice 12 hours a day in virtually identical conditions are much worse than him?
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Wow, Flash's mechanics is so ridiculously good and super fast! D: Thanks for the videos. 
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On May 12 2012 12:08 nakedsurfer wrote:
He's really good for the amount of time he has been playing this game.Like Flash said himself though is that it'll take him a few years to become god-like at sc2. It'll actually even longer than he thinks though just because of the expansions and how the game will change because of them in the next while.
If anything, those expansions/changest will help him and the BW players bridge the gap. They won't have to play catch up with current SC2 progamers in regards to the new units and styles. They have while to develop a good feel for the game now and once the expansions come out, they will be among the top players who can develop HotS strategies. Expansions aren't a complete reset but they should definitely bring everyone's level of play closer together.
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On May 12 2012 10:24 jinorazi wrote:^^^ lol its obviously the guy on the right, flash NEVER 14cc if i recall correctly, after getting beat by jaedong's proxy 2 gate.
Hmm....
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On May 12 2012 12:10 zodde wrote:
Flash is talented, but his success is a result of VERY hard work. Being talented is just a head start, it's not worth anything unless you put in the work.
Then again, I guess you could argue that being able to train that efficiently for such extended periods of time is a talent in itself. It's all about how you define "talent".
Exactly, i'm not trying to argue that Flash is just talented and that's the only reason he dominated in BW. I'm saying that the reason that Flash was better than his team mates who practiced in almost identical conditions was and is because he is more "talented" then them when it comes to BW.
I guarantee that you can find BW progamers who practiced more than Flash with better practice partners, and yet they still weren't as good. Why? Talent.
Hard work gets you to the top, but it is talent that gets you to #1.
I believe that talent should be classified in terms of what you're doing. In terms of SC, talent would therefore be the ability to focus for long periods of time, make inferences and strong critical thinking skills.
Obviously hard work is more important than talent; however, if the work done is equivalent, than talent is the only separating factor.
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The 2 short clips don't really tell me much at this stage. Like any other progamer, he keeps up production, scv, supply and infrastructure throughout the game, but there's definitely no stellar micro I could point out.
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After watching these two clips; what a waste of talent this is. 
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On May 12 2012 11:39 bowenkhong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 11:13 FabreCmac wrote:On May 12 2012 10:57 poorcloud wrote:
He will be good not because he owns at BW, or because he has this RTS mystery talent that everyone seems to believe in.
He will dominate the SC2 scene if he just keeps up with his practice. Because he is the hardest worker out there, and a guy who thinks about the game non-stop. Not because he has faster hands/better reflexes/some inborn RTS talent. I disagree with you sir. It's true that Flash did not have to fastest hands in the BW scene, but he dominated because of his amazing decision making and "inborn RTS talent." If it were as simple as working the hardest than guys like IdrA would be at the top, progamers who have played 12 hours a day since beta. Saying talent has nothing to do with it is just ludicrous and doesn't make sense when you look at the empirical evidence of practice hours vs. results. Even in an interview done with Hwanni he states explicitly that it was talent that separated the BW greats from the rest of the pack who played the exact same amount as they did. Saying talent is all he does, is like implement an attitude of fix mind set, ahhh shit this is how I born with and I can't change anything. Come on when come to complex staff and activity, talent is really noting to do much with it and there's quite a lot of research shows that talent is irreverent when come to the highest level of play. Talent is just an illusion of deliberate practise/
what. uh talent has nothing to do with your success until you reach the top, but from there yes, talent is important.
that's like saying if you try really really hard, you can become the next newton or einstein or that people of average IQ who try really really hard can master theoretical physics. it isn't true.
there's a big difference between subjectively saying 'oh well he's talented, i can never catch up' and using that as an excuse, and saying that objectively, one variable (talent) is what separates one from another given all else equal (hard work).
research is generally based on samples, and you need sufficient sample size, what happens when your sample is one or two, or five? or when your sampling that can be done is so infrequent that you cannot obtain good results (because that is the the idea of someone who is actually talented, there are only a 'few' of them)
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EPT
