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On May 14 2012 06:28 Splynn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 06:13 Alasper wrote:On May 14 2012 06:10 Catatonic wrote:On May 13 2012 06:22 Embir wrote:On May 12 2012 19:31 SayGen wrote:EG is so loaded with talent. Maybe we should have TeamEvilGenises.net instead of TeamLiquid.net  As if taking Huk away from liquid wans't bad enough Puma Huk Idra Thorzain Now EG can take home, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and the honorable mention (4th place) Speaking of talent, what IdrA is doing there in his current form? Guy clearly follows the path of Fruitdealer - these days he bears no relevance in pro players scene, literally ZERO achievements lately... And let's face it - even in his best days he was just mediocre player with poor decision making, saved by solid mechanic coming from grinding countless games. Could've sworn he won 2 major tournaments at the end of last year? Oh wait he did so yea again slipping a bit early like last year but he finished on such a strong note he is still relevant so pipe down please  Except he isn't relevant, so pipe down please. Except he is relevant, so pipe down please. The idea that IdrA was only 'just mediorce' even in his best of days is laughable. Won king of the beta, won a MLG, Ro8 GSL, and then continued to simply win stuff once he returned from Korea; at that time he always at least placed highly. And that IdrA isn't relevant nowadays... if that's the case then why is he playing in the Spring Arena when players like Sheth aren't? He's also doing pretty well in his NASL group when players like Thorzain aren't. The amount of hate IdrA gets is purely due to the fact that he used to place in every tourney he entered. Is he struggling atm? Yea, compared to how he used to play, but he's still at the very least 'relevant', and saying he's not is just simply wrong. Also, if you watch his games, he tends to play really well for a while and then make one or two stupid mistakes that cost him the game. He's still got the potential to remake himself into the one of the best foreigners with only minor tweaking. If that's not relevance, then what is?
I would like to point out that his greatest successes came during first days of SC2 - game was new, people didn't knew exactly how to deal with certain builds, how to macro efficiently. In short - there werent many good players. In those days IdrA's solid play was sufficent. Not anymore.
But even putting mechanics aside, mentality of IdrA clearly is not of the one who wants to get succes. I would like to remind you IdrA's words about MorroW - that he is terrible player and would never be succesful with zerg (that was right after IEM famous reaper play by MorroW that ended with his win), now Morrow plays brilliantly as Zerg, in NASL he manhandled Qxc with creative and spectacular play - guy is clearly good, finds fun with tweaking builds and playing zerg. Same goes with Stephano - in the same time when IdrA moans how awful is to play against Toss Stephano takes victory after victory and speaks loudly bout Zerg strenght in ZvP.
Game moves forward - skill ceiling is still increasing, new very good gamers shows up. Level of play between players is getting equal, and small niuances and innate skill starts to decide about final outcome, not a fact that someone figured out game first, thus IdrA is not good anymore.
I admit, I love to watch him - not because of his play, but because of high drama he can produce.
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On May 14 2012 09:27 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 06:28 Splynn wrote:On May 14 2012 06:13 Alasper wrote:On May 14 2012 06:10 Catatonic wrote:On May 13 2012 06:22 Embir wrote:On May 12 2012 19:31 SayGen wrote:EG is so loaded with talent. Maybe we should have TeamEvilGenises.net instead of TeamLiquid.net As if taking Huk away from liquid wans't bad enough Puma Huk Idra Thorzain Now EG can take home, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and the honorable mention (4th place) Speaking of talent, what IdrA is doing there in his current form? Guy clearly follows the path of Fruitdealer - these days he bears no relevance in pro players scene, literally ZERO achievements lately... And let's face it - even in his best days he was just mediocre player with poor decision making, saved by solid mechanic coming from grinding countless games. Could've sworn he won 2 major tournaments at the end of last year? Oh wait he did so yea again slipping a bit early like last year but he finished on such a strong note he is still relevant so pipe down please Except he isn't relevant, so pipe down please. Except he is relevant, so pipe down please. The idea that IdrA was only 'just mediorce' even in his best of days is laughable. Won king of the beta, won a MLG, Ro8 GSL, and then continued to simply win stuff once he returned from Korea; at that time he always at least placed highly. And that IdrA isn't relevant nowadays... if that's the case then why is he playing in the Spring Arena when players like Sheth aren't? He's also doing pretty well in his NASL group when players like Thorzain aren't. The amount of hate IdrA gets is purely due to the fact that he used to place in every tourney he entered. Is he struggling atm? Yea, compared to how he used to play, but he's still at the very least 'relevant', and saying he's not is just simply wrong. Also, if you watch his games, he tends to play really well for a while and then make one or two stupid mistakes that cost him the game. He's still got the potential to remake himself into the one of the best foreigners with only minor tweaking. If that's not relevance, then what is? I would like to point out that his greatest successes came during first days of SC2 - game was new, people didn't knew exactly how to deal with certain builds, how to macro efficiently. In short - there werent many good players. In those days IdrA's solid play was sufficent. Not anymore. But even putting mechanics aside, mentality of IdrA clearly is not of the one who wants to get succes. I would like to remind you IdrA's words about MorroW - that he is terrible player and would never be succesful with zerg (that was right after IEM famous reaper play by MorroW that ended with his win), now Morrow plays brilliantly as Zerg, in NASL he manhandled Qxc with creative and spectacular play - guy is clearly good, finds fun with tweaking builds and playing zerg. Same goes with Stephano - in the same time when IdrA moans how awful is to play against Toss Stephano takes victory after victory and speaks loudly bout Zerg strenght in ZvP. Game moves forward - skill ceiling is still increasing, new very good gamers shows up. Level of play between players is getting equal, and small niuances and innate skill starts to decide about final outcome, not a fact that someone figured out game first, thus IdrA is not good anymore. I admit, I love to watch him - not because of his play, but because of high drama he can produce.
I just came from watching that game... that big queen play let him secure that 3rd so quickly it wasn't fun to watch at all o.0.
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On May 14 2012 09:27 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 06:28 Splynn wrote:On May 14 2012 06:13 Alasper wrote:On May 14 2012 06:10 Catatonic wrote:On May 13 2012 06:22 Embir wrote:On May 12 2012 19:31 SayGen wrote:EG is so loaded with talent. Maybe we should have TeamEvilGenises.net instead of TeamLiquid.net As if taking Huk away from liquid wans't bad enough Puma Huk Idra Thorzain Now EG can take home, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and the honorable mention (4th place) Speaking of talent, what IdrA is doing there in his current form? Guy clearly follows the path of Fruitdealer - these days he bears no relevance in pro players scene, literally ZERO achievements lately... And let's face it - even in his best days he was just mediocre player with poor decision making, saved by solid mechanic coming from grinding countless games. Could've sworn he won 2 major tournaments at the end of last year? Oh wait he did so yea again slipping a bit early like last year but he finished on such a strong note he is still relevant so pipe down please Except he isn't relevant, so pipe down please. Except he is relevant, so pipe down please. The idea that IdrA was only 'just mediorce' even in his best of days is laughable. Won king of the beta, won a MLG, Ro8 GSL, and then continued to simply win stuff once he returned from Korea; at that time he always at least placed highly. And that IdrA isn't relevant nowadays... if that's the case then why is he playing in the Spring Arena when players like Sheth aren't? He's also doing pretty well in his NASL group when players like Thorzain aren't. The amount of hate IdrA gets is purely due to the fact that he used to place in every tourney he entered. Is he struggling atm? Yea, compared to how he used to play, but he's still at the very least 'relevant', and saying he's not is just simply wrong. Also, if you watch his games, he tends to play really well for a while and then make one or two stupid mistakes that cost him the game. He's still got the potential to remake himself into the one of the best foreigners with only minor tweaking. If that's not relevance, then what is? I would like to point out that his greatest successes came during first days of SC2 - game was new, people didn't knew exactly how to deal with certain builds, how to macro efficiently. In short - there werent many good players. In those days IdrA's solid play was sufficent. Not anymore. But even putting mechanics aside, mentality of IdrA clearly is not of the one who wants to get succes. I would like to remind you IdrA's words about MorroW - that he is terrible player and would never be succesful with zerg (that was right after IEM famous reaper play by MorroW that ended with his win), now Morrow plays brilliantly as Zerg, in NASL he manhandled Qxc with creative and spectacular play - guy is clearly good, finds fun with tweaking builds and playing zerg. Same goes with Stephano - in the same time when IdrA moans how awful is to play against Toss Stephano takes victory after victory and speaks loudly bout Zerg strenght in ZvP. Game moves forward - skill ceiling is still increasing, new very good gamers shows up. Level of play between players is getting equal, and small niuances and innate skill starts to decide about final outcome, not a fact that someone figured out game first, thus IdrA is not good anymore. I admit, I love to watch him - not because of his play, but because of high drama he can produce.
Well put. Encapsulated the theme of my post. I dont know if I agree if he is "not good anymore" but definitely not up to the high caliber of other players out there. He gets more credit than deserved.
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On May 14 2012 07:12 Zenith[TheOry] wrote:Nice pick-up by EG. Their line-up is starting to look pretty strong now, with DeMusliM, IdrA, JYP, HuK, Puma, and now ThorZaIN. They're probably the best foreign team right now, along with compLexity and Quantic Gaming. Good luck to ThorZaIN, though. I'm sure he won't disappoint.
Hum... Lol, seriously? I'm not a "blind fan" of Liquid, but they've got, by far, the best line up as for foreign teams and you dont even mention them xD, by faaaaar. Hero Taeja Ret (Ret is seriously underrated, easily top 3 foreign zerg) Zenio, I mean EG got some solid players for sure, but I dont think it's even comparable to the koreans from Liquid who have huge potential and are already established (Code S this season), plus the fact that TLO Jinro and Haypro are all great pro gamers just struggling to find their place at the moment, but they all showed some amazing potential and perfomances. I know Liquid had some downtime for a while, I guess the fact that Jinro went into Code S semi finals and then no perfomances AT ALL from Liquid kinda shocked many people, but on paper Liquid is way scarier than any foreign team. Oh lol, forgot Sheth, ahah, the dude who tends to make pros look like silver league when he's in a good day, koreans included (Am I mistaken, but did Sheth all kill EG during an IPL team league or something? I know, shit happens doesnt mean that Sheth > whole EG roster, but I couldnt say for sure if he did all kill).
EG is on good tracks to get at that level but imho they're not there yet, Puma JYP and IdrA not performing as well lately, anyway anything can happen frankly, lets wait for the rosters to get a little more stable, training sessions to pay, and then I'll be fucking crazy if there is a EG v Liquid clan war :D, Thorzain JYP Huk Idra Puma v Zenio Hero Taeja Ret Sheth (/TLO), gad damn it that would be amazing
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ok, whatever you guys think, this video was hilarious, btw nice pick up
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On May 14 2012 08:54 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 07:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 14 2012 06:53 SirPinky wrote:On May 13 2012 06:22 Embir wrote:On May 12 2012 19:31 SayGen wrote:EG is so loaded with talent. Maybe we should have TeamEvilGenises.net instead of TeamLiquid.net As if taking Huk away from liquid wans't bad enough Puma Huk Idra Thorzain Now EG can take home, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and the honorable mention (4th place) Speaking of talent, what IdrA is doing there in his current form? Guy clearly follows the path of Fruitdealer - these days he bears no relevance in pro players scene, literally ZERO achievements lately... And let's face it - even in his best days he was just mediocre player with poor decision making, saved by solid mechanic coming from grinding countless games. I agree with you about Idra: If it was not for his "bad boy" persona he would have been dismissed like Axlav. He is a crowd pleaser and people are waiting for the rage and trainwreck to happen. There is a reason he gets over 10k views on his stream and it is not primarily for skill - it's for entertainment. Heck, I'm a Terran player and I watch his stream! I still think he is a good player, just not to the same level many people think he is (i.e. 0-4 MouzMorrow beat him in the showmatch). Does Morrow get 10k viewers? Lol - point proven. Was Morrow ever the most best BW foreigner and the most dominant SC2 foreigner? (Not to mention one of the best players period at the start of SC2) IdrA's definitely riding on previous successes, but to say none of IdrA's popularity is from skill is ignorant of a lot of SC history. I agree he is skilled, no doubt. I never said "none of Idra's popularity is from skill" but to receive 10k viewers on stream and have little recent success to justify viewers demonstrates its not just skill why viewers watch. Heck, i beat incontrol several times on ladder but do I get 3-4k viewers? Stephano has a hard time reaching Idra's numbers and you think Stephano is worse than Idra (no answer required)? It is the commericalism of EG that bumps many of their players into a higher teir than I think is justified. For instance, DeMuslim #1 NA Gm, gets 20% of the viewers of Idra's stream but, in my opinion, I think he is a better player.
You're randomly assuming that "watching a player for skill" is the same as "winning a lot gets you 10k viewers".
IdrA has 5 years of cultivating a fanbase. He was massively popular before he even joined Team EG, and that's because he spent 3 years playing Broodwar as one of, if not the, top foreigner.
Yes his attitude has a lot to do with his viewership, but when he was still placing Ro8 in almost every tournament he went to, he could reach 15k viewers fairly easily. That 10k isn't just people coming in for a good show, it's an extremely hardcore fan base that was built up from longer than most players have even been in pro-gaming.
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yes because this is how the community is its a EGThorZain thread but becomes an EGidrA thread like people should just quit talking about him every where you go, this community gets so annoying so much with all this TMZ drama bullshit i rarely come to teamliquid anymore because the discussions here always goes back to one debate.. "being a racist" "i hate idra" "flash is god" like shit gets outdated so badly.. starcraft 2 is getting stale and the community isnt even helping there cause.
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On May 14 2012 09:46 mahO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 07:12 Zenith[TheOry] wrote:Nice pick-up by EG. Their line-up is starting to look pretty strong now, with DeMusliM, IdrA, JYP, HuK, Puma, and now ThorZaIN. They're probably the best foreign team right now, along with compLexity and Quantic Gaming. Good luck to ThorZaIN, though. I'm sure he won't disappoint. plus the fact that TLO Jinro and Haypro are all great pro gamers just struggling to find their place at the moment,
I remember watching one of Jinro's most recent appearances where TSLPolt won the tournament vs Stephano, I think he was trying too hard to entertain rather then to win (That was the impression I got, I am probably wrong so don't quote me on this).
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On May 14 2012 10:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 08:54 SirPinky wrote:On May 14 2012 07:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 14 2012 06:53 SirPinky wrote:On May 13 2012 06:22 Embir wrote:On May 12 2012 19:31 SayGen wrote:EG is so loaded with talent. Maybe we should have TeamEvilGenises.net instead of TeamLiquid.net As if taking Huk away from liquid wans't bad enough Puma Huk Idra Thorzain Now EG can take home, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and the honorable mention (4th place) Speaking of talent, what IdrA is doing there in his current form? Guy clearly follows the path of Fruitdealer - these days he bears no relevance in pro players scene, literally ZERO achievements lately... And let's face it - even in his best days he was just mediocre player with poor decision making, saved by solid mechanic coming from grinding countless games. I agree with you about Idra: If it was not for his "bad boy" persona he would have been dismissed like Axlav. He is a crowd pleaser and people are waiting for the rage and trainwreck to happen. There is a reason he gets over 10k views on his stream and it is not primarily for skill - it's for entertainment. Heck, I'm a Terran player and I watch his stream! I still think he is a good player, just not to the same level many people think he is (i.e. 0-4 MouzMorrow beat him in the showmatch). Does Morrow get 10k viewers? Lol - point proven. Was Morrow ever the most best BW foreigner and the most dominant SC2 foreigner? (Not to mention one of the best players period at the start of SC2) IdrA's definitely riding on previous successes, but to say none of IdrA's popularity is from skill is ignorant of a lot of SC history. I agree he is skilled, no doubt. I never said "none of Idra's popularity is from skill" but to receive 10k viewers on stream and have little recent success to justify viewers demonstrates its not just skill why viewers watch. Heck, i beat incontrol several times on ladder but do I get 3-4k viewers? Stephano has a hard time reaching Idra's numbers and you think Stephano is worse than Idra (no answer required)? It is the commericalism of EG that bumps many of their players into a higher teir than I think is justified. For instance, DeMuslim #1 NA Gm, gets 20% of the viewers of Idra's stream but, in my opinion, I think he is a better player. You're randomly assuming that "watching a player for skill" is the same as "winning a lot gets you 10k viewers". IdrA has 5 years of cultivating a fanbase. He was massively popular before he even joined Team EG, and that's because he spent 3 years playing Broodwar as one of, if not the, top foreigner. Yes his attitude has a lot to do with his viewership, but when he was still placing Ro8 in almost every tournament he went to, he could reach 15k viewers fairly easily. That 10k isn't just people coming in for a good show, it's an extremely hardcore fan base that was built up from longer than most players have even been in pro-gaming.
Really? Is that why after winning ING Pro league season 3 Stephano, seemingly a small presence in E-sports started streaming and shot to 10k + viewers? Stephano didn't need to cultivate any fanbase. And why is it that when i contact both for a showmatch post ING, Stephano agreed to one for $200 bo7 while Idra charges a minimum of $500. We all know who is the better player, yet Idra feels justified to charge more than most lawyers do. If Idra feels entitled to charge that much, to each his own, however you can guess who I had in the showmatch.
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The evilest spoon  .
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This is a thread about Thorzain, not IdrA. Newsflash to the people talking shit about idra; You don't know shit about starcraft. I'm sure you think your armchair quarterbacking makes you look cool and knowledgeable, but really it just makes you look like a douche who has nothing better to do than talk shit about a guy you know nothing about.
If fucking Miguel Cabrera went 1/5 versus Verlander a good portion of our community would just lambast how terrible he was. lol.
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On May 14 2012 12:31 dronefarm wrote:
This is a thread about Thorzain, not IdrA. Newsflash to the people talking shit about idra; You don't know shit about starcraft. I'm sure you think your armchair quarterbacking makes you look cool and knowledgeable, but really it just makes you look like a douche who has nothing better to do than talk shit about a guy you know nothing about.
If fucking Miguel Cabrera went 1/5 versus Verlander a good portion of our community would just lambast how terrible he was. lol.
This thread is not just about Thorzain. It is indirectly about the EG lineup (and that includes Idra). You can stop using profanity and generalizations and start using words to communicate. We didn't say we know anything about Idra, but as a sponsor and GM I know enough about the game to at least justify my comments about one player on the lineup. I'm sorry your favorite player, Idra, is not performing well but this doesn't stop me from posting the reality of the situation, in my opinion. Please stop with the immaturity, rants and lack of substance in your posts. I'll be happy to reply to logical and well-formulated arguements about my previous posts.
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Wow I just now saw this thread; man am I late. Well grats ThorZaIN!
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hahah awesome video. Congrats EG and ThorzaiN.
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On May 14 2012 12:43 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 12:31 dronefarm wrote:
This is a thread about Thorzain, not IdrA. Newsflash to the people talking shit about idra; You don't know shit about starcraft. I'm sure you think your armchair quarterbacking makes you look cool and knowledgeable, but really it just makes you look like a douche who has nothing better to do than talk shit about a guy you know nothing about.
If fucking Miguel Cabrera went 1/5 versus Verlander a good portion of our community would just lambast how terrible he was. lol. This thread is not just about Thorzain. It is indirectly about the EG lineup (and that includes Idra). You can stop using profanity and generalizations and start using words to communicate. We didn't say we know anything about Idra, but as a sponsor and GM I know enough about the game to at least justify my comments about one player on the lineup. I'm sorry your favorite player, Idra, is not performing well but this doesn't stop me from posting the reality of the situation, in my opinion. Please stop with the immaturity, rants and lack of substance in your posts. I'll be happy to reply to logical and well-formulated arguements about my previous posts.
This is true, but its also besides the point. You can, if you want to, make this thread about the EG lineup and basically focus all of your attention off the OP and the entire point of the thread because you want to talk about something. But that doesnt mean its a productive thing to do.
Also, why assume that Idra should lower his rate as opposed to Stephano raising his rate? If people will pay Idra $500 for a showmatch then that is what he should charge.
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On May 14 2012 14:15 sdecker32 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 12:43 SirPinky wrote:On May 14 2012 12:31 dronefarm wrote:
This is a thread about Thorzain, not IdrA. Newsflash to the people talking shit about idra; You don't know shit about starcraft. I'm sure you think your armchair quarterbacking makes you look cool and knowledgeable, but really it just makes you look like a douche who has nothing better to do than talk shit about a guy you know nothing about.
If fucking Miguel Cabrera went 1/5 versus Verlander a good portion of our community would just lambast how terrible he was. lol. This thread is not just about Thorzain. It is indirectly about the EG lineup (and that includes Idra). You can stop using profanity and generalizations and start using words to communicate. We didn't say we know anything about Idra, but as a sponsor and GM I know enough about the game to at least justify my comments about one player on the lineup. I'm sorry your favorite player, Idra, is not performing well but this doesn't stop me from posting the reality of the situation, in my opinion. Please stop with the immaturity, rants and lack of substance in your posts. I'll be happy to reply to logical and well-formulated arguements about my previous posts. This is true, but its also besides the point. You can, if you want to, make this thread about the EG lineup and basically focus all of your attention off the OP and the entire point of the thread because you want to talk about something. But that doesnt mean its a productive thing to do. Also, why assume that Idra should lower his rate as opposed to Stephano raising his rate? If people will pay Idra $500 for a showmatch then that is what he should charge.
Especially when he has come out multiple times saying he doesn't like doing showmatches and will only do them if its worth it.
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Sorry if this has been gone over before, but what the fuck happens at :32? Anyone care to explain?
I was able to make out the word "Terran" and apparently someone is upset at a game of chess/checkers?
EDIT: "Yavlick Terran"?
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On May 14 2012 15:53 slam wrote:
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but what the fuck happens at :32? Anyone care to explain?
I was able to make out the word "Terran" and apparently someone is upset at a game of chess/checkers?
EDIT: "Yavlick Terran"?
I believe it was "Jävla Terran!" which would be Swedish for "f*cking Terran!" if I am not mistaken.
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On May 14 2012 16:10 Showtim3 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 15:53 slam wrote:
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but what the fuck happens at :32? Anyone care to explain?
I was able to make out the word "Terran" and apparently someone is upset at a game of chess/checkers?
EDIT: "Yavlick Terran"? I believe it was "Jävla Terran!" which would be Swedish for "f*cking Terran!" if I am not mistaken.
That would make sense. Thank you.
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On May 14 2012 16:14 slam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 16:10 Showtim3 wrote:On May 14 2012 15:53 slam wrote:
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but what the fuck happens at :32? Anyone care to explain?
I was able to make out the word "Terran" and apparently someone is upset at a game of chess/checkers?
EDIT: "Yavlick Terran"? I believe it was "Jävla Terran!" which would be Swedish for "f*cking Terran!" if I am not mistaken. That would make sense. Thank you.
its a play on the TSL3 hype video that Naniwa and Thorzain did where Naniwa yelled "Jävla Terran!" and flipped the board over.
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EPT
