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On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
If it's based on facts, it's not an opinion. But it's not, so it's an opinion.
You won't get attacked because of a huge fan club, you'll get attacked because your opinion is foolish.
Besides that, you're doing an awful thing. Anyone who disagrees with you will have to bash any of the 34 fine players that you named. I won't do it.
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On May 01 2012 05:25 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:11 Greenei wrote:i think its pretty clear that players with commentary have more viewers then those without ceteris paribus. Okay, then name 15-20 foreigners who are clearly better than IdrA, and be sure to give at least a few general reasons why your list of pro-gamers are better. let me try but without reason, that's too timeconsuming: stephano, naniwa, sase, thorzain, kas, sheth, huk, ret, nerchio, maybe select, demuslim, sjow, titan, whitra. you cant conclusively say any of them save perhaps stephano and naniwa... </3 Cella stream... why no more I so sad... he started stream less and less after that christmas drunken stream... but I loved it when he used to get slayers peeps to just come and coach... the 15$ coach so good.. sigh T.T.T.T
Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, HuK, Ret, and Nerchio are better than IdrA.
Titan is a Protoss and IdrA sucks vs. Protoss, but I don't think Titan is better than IdrA overall.
Select, Sheth, SaSe, Demuslim, Sjow, and White-Ra are not better than IdrA.
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Wow, Maximusblack at #30 and I'm pretty sure hes the only person not featured on this list... I think itd be cool for TL to feature him because he has actually done a ridiculous amount for the community considering he took a bunch of casuals and got them interested in eSports, I didnt even know there was professional SC2 until watching his youtube videos and I know this is true for many others!
Edit: Hui isn't featured either. 
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:30 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on a facts. Now that's bullshit. He's constantly taking long drawn out macro games against Code A and S players, can that be said for even a 3rd of these players? You cannot look at statistics and call a player better, you gotta look at the people they play, and how they play. How can you even try to claim that Bly is better than a player like Idra? That's beyond me...
yeah it's kind of pointless discussion because i can't prove that player X is better than Y if they are similar in skill. I would say IdrA = Bly and half of these players i listed because it depends on a day/mood whether they are "better". I would like to point though, that IdrA is very overrated, and players like Bly are underrated, he has produced incredible online results, and for me, online results are as important as offline ones (offline guys can handle nerves better + they are more experienced, so if IdrA was to play Bly offline, IdrA would probably have an edge, but if they were to play online, I'd bet my money on Bly)
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On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on a facts.
You point out IdrA's lack of a super-recent big win, even though a bunch of players in your list have NEVER received a big win (let alone recently).
And who the hell are Tefel and fraer? Are they even real people or did you just smash they keyboard in a tongue-in-cheek attempt to claim that even fake people are better than IdrA. Your personal favorite gamers =/= Best gamers necessarily.
The only people on your list who are even remotely at IdrA's level/ considered better at this point in time are HuK, Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain... and maybe you can throw in one or two wildcards (like Ret) from that list. But IdrA's absolutely in the top 10-15.
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On May 01 2012 05:31 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:25 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 01 2012 05:11 Greenei wrote:i think its pretty clear that players with commentary have more viewers then those without ceteris paribus. Okay, then name 15-20 foreigners who are clearly better than IdrA, and be sure to give at least a few general reasons why your list of pro-gamers are better. let me try but without reason, that's too timeconsuming: stephano, naniwa, sase, thorzain, kas, sheth, huk, ret, nerchio, maybe select, demuslim, sjow, titan, whitra. you cant conclusively say any of them save perhaps stephano and naniwa... </3 Cella stream... why no more I so sad... he started stream less and less after that christmas drunken stream... but I loved it when he used to get slayers peeps to just come and coach... the 15$ coach so good.. sigh T.T.T.T Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, HuK, Ret, and Nerchio are better than IdrA. Titan is a Protoss and IdrA sucks vs. Protoss, but I don't think Titan is better than IdrA overall. Select, Sheth, SaSe, Demuslim, Sjow, and White-Ra are not better than IdrA.
I completely agree, but I'm hesitant to put Thorzain and Nerchio over Idra. That might be because I have never really seen Nerchio play though, but I'm sure he's a great player. I would put my money on Idra over Thorzain if they were to go against each other, but that's like Tzain worst vs Idra's best, but overall I think they're too equal to put either on top.
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:30 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts. If it's based on facts, it's not an opinion. But it's not, so it's an opinion. You won't get attacked because of a huge fan club, you'll get attacked because your opinion is foolish. Besides that, you're doing an awful thing. Anyone who disagrees with you will have to bash any of the 34 fine players that you named. I won't do it.
My english is not perfect, and by facts i meant results. Recent IdrA's results are non existent, while other players win online cups (top foreigners participate, and players like Polt and HyuN) like every day.
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you guys are funny. the guys i named aren't all "leagues" better then idra but still better. idra constantly gets last places in groups and just overall loses a fuckton. i dont see how any mediocore pro wouldn't be better then him.
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On May 01 2012 05:36 CruiseR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts. If it's based on facts, it's not an opinion. But it's not, so it's an opinion. You won't get attacked because of a huge fan club, you'll get attacked because your opinion is foolish. Besides that, you're doing an awful thing. Anyone who disagrees with you will have to bash any of the 34 fine players that you named. I won't do it. My english is not perfect, and by facts i meant results. Recent IdrA's results are non existent, while other players win online cups (top foreigners participate, and players like Polt and HyuN) like every day.
Are you even trying to defend the claim that half of those players are close to Idra?
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On May 01 2012 04:15 IMoperator wrote:
You see Idra's numbers and think that's a lot but then you realize that LoL streamers get basically double that consistently. Pretty crazy.
How do LoL players consistently get so many viewers? I don't really understand that community at all. Streams seem to be the way most players make their money.
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On May 01 2012 04:59 CruiseR wrote:
IdrA is not even close to top15 foreigners imo, he was very good during the beta and early sc2 times, but now he's just average
and we can see that for streaming, personality (and sometimes trashtalking/bm) is more important than skill.
Not even close to top 15 foreigners? I don't want to live on this planet anymore
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On May 01 2012 05:37 Greenei wrote:
you guys are funny. the guys i named aren't all "leagues" better then idra but still better. idra constantly gets last places in groups and just overall loses a fuckton. i dont see how any mediocore pro wouldn't be better then him.
Put a mediocre foreigner in the groups that Idra has had, and see if they do better
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On May 01 2012 05:38 INFDexter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 04:15 IMoperator wrote:
You see Idra's numbers and think that's a lot but then you realize that LoL streamers get basically double that consistently. Pretty crazy. How do LoL players consistently get so many viewers? I don't really understand that community at all. Streams seem to be the way most players make their money.
Because LoL has a SICK amount of people playing it.
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On May 01 2012 05:36 CruiseR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 34 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts. If it's based on facts, it's not an opinion. But it's not, so it's an opinion. You won't get attacked because of a huge fan club, you'll get attacked because your opinion is foolish. Besides that, you're doing an awful thing. Anyone who disagrees with you will have to bash any of the 34 fine players that you named. I won't do it. My english is not perfect, and by facts i meant results. Recent IdrA's results are non existent, while other players win online cups (top foreigners participate, and players like Polt and HyuN) like every day.
Well if you consider online results actual "results" than your opinion makes more sense. Sadly I don't think many people on planet earth would actually agree with that sentiment...
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
And who the hell are Tefel and fraer? Are they even real people or did you just smash they keyboard in a tongue-in-cheek attempt to claim that even fake people are better than IdrA. Your personal favorite gamers =/= Best gamers necessarily.
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You don't even know top3 polish player that has awesome online results recently? , and a player from Ukraine that won like 10 cups like zotac in last few weeks? For example, I would put fraer over White-Ra easily right now. and i don't even have the reason to "like" the guy.
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Well... I know for a fact that Stephano had 18000+ viewers this one time. Guess that was prior to 22:nd of Mars.
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On May 01 2012 05:38 INFDexter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 04:15 IMoperator wrote:
You see Idra's numbers and think that's a lot but then you realize that LoL streamers get basically double that consistently. Pretty crazy. How do LoL players consistently get so many viewers? I don't really understand that community at all. Streams seem to be the way most players make their money.
bigger community = more viewers I guess... cause its f2p and the community is a lot larger you get a lot more people watching naturally
On May 01 2012 05:37 Greenei wrote:
you guys are funny. the guys i named aren't all "leagues" better then idra but still better. idra constantly gets last places in groups and just overall loses a fuckton. i dont see how any mediocore pro wouldn't be better then him.
well you are discounting the fact the groups he are in are idk, filled with code S players while Titan, however good he is, has not played people like MMA, Jjaki, Bomber all in one tournament group...
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Dear fellow Stephano fans, SC2 is not an e-peen contest. It's not important for us that Stephano gets more stream viewers than Idra, but it's important for us that he keeps winning. Let the haters and the fools alike argue between themselves till the world dies and do not start the Idra vs. Stephano debate again, it has been done and the final outcome is pretty clear.
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On May 01 2012 05:42 Otolia wrote:
Dear fellow Stephano fans, SC2 is not an e-peen contest. It's not important for us that Stephano gets more stream viewers than Idra, but it's important for us that he keeps winning. Let the haters and the fools alike argue between themselves till the world dies and do not start the Idra vs. Stephano debate again, it has been done and the final outcome is pretty clear.
Did you even read the thread? People aren't arguing about if Idra/Stephano get more viewers or which one is better..
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Kas not getting enough hype :/ Guy has such solid play
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EPT
