EPTMoletrap leaves GOM - Page 29
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On April 17 2012 07:52 Nibbler89 wrote: I was always disappointed with moletrap's casting but that's not what was frustrating. The frustrating thing is, unlike his fellow casters who make threads to get feedback on their casting and how to improve, moletrap never made one even though he was widely considered to be one of the weaker casters. Maybe he feels he doesn't have to, but I just don't know how it's not embarrassing / shameful when khaldor, wolf, and husky, all have threads asking for feedback good OR bad, so they can improve. Yes they get trolls who hate on them, Yes moletrap will probably get more. But the others casters don't care, they are willing to sift through the garbage to find the constructive criticism, and look at how quickly they have improved compared to moletrap.(wolf and husky in particular imo) to be honest, i have never seen a caster take any real criticism to heart. maybe i missed something, but most of the times i see one piece of criticism in one of those threads and it gets three pages of replies from rabid fans telling the person who posted the criticism that they are stupid and this caster is awesome and should never change eva! and the caster shows up maybe once every 300 pages to pop in and say: "thanks guys! taking it all to heart! love you!" moletrap does not have seven legions of rabid fans that will draw their internet swords and do battle anytime someone mentions a word of criticism. he has seventy legions of rabid anti-fans that will go to a constructive criticism thread and say: "i don't like your voice. it's high and annoying. but you can't do anything about it, so... i just thought you should know that i hate your voice and hate your casting." so i don't agree with this point at all. constructive criticism threads are useless in my opinion. you will get maybe three posts of actually worthwhile criticism and a barrel full of trolls that either stroke your ego or flame the hell out of you. besides what really worthwhile criticism can he glean from these threads? "moar game knowledge!" uhh... ok how is that useful? | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
On April 17 2012 09:05 sc2superfan101 wrote: to be honest, i have never seen a caster take any real criticism to heart. maybe i missed something, but most of the times i see one piece of criticism in one of those threads and it gets three pages of replies from rabid fans telling the person who posted the criticism that they are stupid and this caster is awesome and should never change eva! and the caster shows up maybe once every 300 pages to pop in and say: "thanks guys! taking it all to heart! love you!" moletrap does not have seven legions of rabid fans that will draw their internet swords and do battle anytime someone mentions a word of criticism. he has seventy legions of rabid anti-fans that will go to a constructive criticism thread and say: "i don't like your voice. it's high and annoying. but you can't do anything about it, so... i just thought you should know that i hate your voice and hate your casting." so i don't agree with this point at all. constructive criticism threads are useless in my opinion. you will get maybe three posts of actually worthwhile criticism and a barrel full of trolls that either stroke your ego or flame the hell out of you. besides what really worthwhile criticism can he glean from these threads? "moar game knowledge!" uhh... ok how is that useful? I disagree. There are many casters that have improved. While not everyone has had a dedicated thread about them, they get feedback in random forums and whatnot and almost always see it even if they don't reply. Painuser is one example. When I first saw him, he was easily the worst caster, unless you played terran. He looooved talking about terran, observing the terran, and didn't have much knowledge about anything else. But (races, maps, players, scene) over time he has rectified it so his recent IPL cast was at least bearable. HD's casting has been discussed to death so I'll leave that alone, even though I enjoy him more than Painuser Khaldor is similar, when I first heard him, I thought ugh, why... But over a span of months he developed his mannerisms and way of speaking into a better, more analytical caster. They really do try to not say all of the "buzz-words" and whatnot You probably don't notice, and I don't mean that in a rude way. It's easy to not pick out areas of improvement (And I am in no way saying that these casters are objectively good) but really, they really do listen- i am almost sure of that. | ||
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GogglesMoleRat
Canada1 Post
Also he was condescending to the players after almost every match Even though he himself barely plays SC2. Gotta love that dick sucking old boys club. Never Change Mission accomplished here i talked to MoleCrap in the Gom Chat months ago about my campaign to get him fired and he laughed at me Look whos laughing now MoleTrap User was banned for this post. | ||
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Nibbler89
884 Posts
On April 17 2012 09:05 sc2superfan101 wrote: to be honest, i have never seen a caster take any real criticism to heart. maybe i missed something, but most of the times i see one piece of criticism in one of those threads and it gets three pages of replies from rabid fans telling the person who posted the criticism that they are stupid and this caster is awesome and should never change eva! and the caster shows up maybe once every 300 pages to pop in and say: "thanks guys! taking it all to heart! love you!" moletrap does not have seven legions of rabid fans that will draw their internet swords and do battle anytime someone mentions a word of criticism. he has seventy legions of rabid anti-fans that will go to a constructive criticism thread and say: "i don't like your voice. it's high and annoying. but you can't do anything about it, so... i just thought you should know that i hate your voice and hate your casting." so i don't agree with this point at all. constructive criticism threads are useless in my opinion. you will get maybe three posts of actually worthwhile criticism and a barrel full of trolls that either stroke your ego or flame the hell out of you. besides what really worthwhile criticism can he glean from these threads? "moar game knowledge!" uhh... ok how is that useful? It depends on what they do with the feedback. That's why the desire to improve is the first and foremost important thing if you are even going to create a feedback thread. I agree if you have no desire to improve, a feed back thread will only serve to make you feel bad through flames and ego stroke through fans that don't understand a feedback thread is not purely a fan club thread. But to say it's useless because the majority of posts will be worthless you might as well say almost any internet forum is useless then. If they, like I said, "sift through the garbage to find the constructive criticism" whether fans or anti fans or w/e jump on the criticism doesn't matter so long as they make use of it. I don't think wolf, khaldor or husky are dumb, so I don't think will they will listen to the people that say "you should never change eva!", and I don't think their feedback threads are purely for ego stroking either I think they really do have a desire to improve and at the very least a feedback thread shows you are looking to do that. I won't sell moletrap short, he did improve on not running people over as much in casts so it's not like he's oblivious. I do however think it was mostly he didn't want to annoy his fellow casters/friends(he seems like a nice guy afterall) that motivated him not a desire to improve his own casting because not much else changed and this was over a pretty long period of time. In the same period I saw wolf grow into what I would consider a top foreigner caster atm. As for the criticism he can glean? Much in the same way posting a help me thread in sc2 strategy forum will mostly net you stupid responses, there's still a good chance someone will post something really worthwhile that can help you improve, and a couple will give you a few little things you can improve on that you may have never noticed yourself. Also the same is the desire to improve being the most important thing, my point was never that feedback threads are what improves casters, it was that it showed a DESIRE to improve, and is a tool that can help. The criticism I posted in what eventually became moletraps sort of unofficial feedback thread(basically where most people came to bash moletrap) was this: + Show Spoiler + "While I personally don't really like DJ wheat that much I can still recognize him as a quality hype caster because he doesn't try to over analyze what he doesn't know, he does what he's good at to increase the entertainment value of the cast and for the most part that's play by play. The reason I find Moletrap frequently annoying is for the same reason I'd feel annoyed if I saw someone commentating professional hold em poker and saying that a player shouldn't play suited 89 spades because the last 3 flops have been all diamond/ hearts and high cards. It's not just a lack of knowledge it's misleading the viewers that don't know any better. I addressed what I thought was his main weakness, I avoided general statements like "more game knowledge" while still showing how a lack of game knowledge can be annoying/detrimental to viewers and gave an example of a caster with similar strengths and weaknesses that I believe could be a role model for improvement. When there is no way to offer feedback / the caster doesn't show a desire to improve what can people that are not happy with his performance do? You can't offer him advice to help improve, all you can do is complain and hope he disappears or learn to live with it(muting stream). Much in the same way you can't improve if you don't think about your actions, you won't improve if you think you're already doing a good enough job. I'd also like to point out this is supposed to be his job and passion. Not a hobby. Edit: If you really think husky/wolf/khaldor are full of shit with their ""thanks guys! taking it all to heart! love you!" type stuff, why not pm them and (respectfully and nicely ask) "I was interested in your feedback threads and contributing to them, but part of me was concerned whether you actually read / take it to heart, do you have any examples of posts that you felt improved your casting and in what ways?" Or something along those lines, who knows maybe it could even help turn feedback threads into being more useful, with the caster adding posts he felt were particularly useful in the OP to show he's not just bsing. Improving on improving is a skill too. Maybe you can ask them to forward their reply to MT too.  | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On April 17 2012 09:43 BreakfastBurrito wrote: I disagree. There are many casters that have improved. While not everyone has had a dedicated thread about them, they get feedback in random forums and whatnot and almost always see it even if they don't reply. Painuser is one example. When I first saw him, he was easily the worst caster, unless you played terran. He looooved talking about terran, observing the terran, and didn't have much knowledge about anything else. But (races, maps, players, scene) over time he has rectified it so his recent IPL cast was at least bearable. HD's casting has been discussed to death so I'll leave that alone, even though I enjoy him more than Painuser Khaldor is similar, when I first heard him, I thought ugh, why... But over a span of months he developed his mannerisms and way of speaking into a better, more analytical caster. They really do try to not say all of the "buzz-words" and whatnot You probably don't notice, and I don't mean that in a rude way. It's easy to not pick out areas of improvement (And I am in no way saying that these casters are objectively good) but really, they really do listen- i am almost sure of that. i'm not saying that caster's haven't improved. some of them have, some of them haven't. i'm saying that it makes no sense to me that any of their improvements came from constructive criticism threads based on the lack of quality in any of those threads. and i'm not so sure that they almost always see the criticism. i sure as hell wouldn't be reading a thread about me if i was a caster. what can you really expect? a whole slew of trolls who either hate you or love you and then a few people who can never agree on what actually needs to be fixed. it would be impossible for them not to know what the general feeling of the community about them is, but that even furthers my argument that a thread would have done moletrap no good whatsoever. a very vocal, sizable part of the community hated the guy's casting, and i'm sure he was aware of that. why would he then go into a "constructive" criticism thread about himself populated by those same people who can't stand him? that wouldn't be good for him, it would be terrible! reading over a 1,000 posts about how bad you are would be bad for anyone's self esteem, even if they had rhino skin and a very healthy sense of self-worth. my advice to a caster would be to never read anything about yourself on the internet. they should know what they need to improve on without having to sift through mountains of bad posts. some of them probably do check out the criticism threads every once in a while. some of them probably do try to keep some of that criticism in mind. i highly doubt that they have ever gotten anything really useful from a thread like that though. | ||
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ColA-
Canada66 Posts
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SkimGuy
Canada709 Posts
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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nightss
Australia87 Posts
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lolboi222
South Africa44 Posts
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Tomfour
United States173 Posts
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Xenocryst
United States521 Posts
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32
United States163 Posts
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
THANKYOU SO MUCH for this thread. Whatever the truth behind this rumour, it has helped TL be a better place in the long run as people are exposed as assholes and consigned to the outer darknesses of reddit, b.net and the GOM forums (no offence if you're still working for GOM  ) | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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