We are proud to present yet another Zerg player who joined our StarCraft 2 team.
Another Zerg player has found his spot in the FnaticRaidCall StarCraft 2 Academy team, and this time it is Han Ji "ByuL" Won, the just until recently Brood War progamer.
ByuL has finaly decided to switch to StarCraft 2, and will play for FnaticRaidCall from now on. He used to play for Samsung KHAN during his StarCraft Brood War career, where he played team leagues for the main team.
That's cool, he was practically never played by Khan but he did win 4/5 of the games he played, which is way better than most rookies. Curious how he'll do in SC2.
Hopefully he'll get some time before we start building another forGG-bandwagon for him to crash. Fnatic's lineup is starting to look scary, if only Sen would have stayed aswell :O
On March 20 2012 00:26 Tidus Mino wrote: lol.. how many people do they want in that house :o
ToD, aLive, Departue, SON, Ares, Rain, LaMiaZeaLoT, Cyanidefi, xPeke, Shushei and Mellisan... kinda too much for a 75m apartment..?
hmm maybe it's purely for gaming? Rooms for the foreigners or those who stay very far, a lot of the players are Koreans, so they probably will go home?
On March 19 2012 23:43 GoSuChicken wrote: Elephant in the room? Nice pick up, lets see how he developes!
I looks more like a beaten horse in the room.
i wonder if the people who switch now, who were never huge, just don't count towards the old BW stalwarts saying that BW players are infinitely better than sc2 players? Seriously though, GL ByuL hopefully he plays well.
Saw the title "Fnatic signs former Samsung..", got extremely excited, then my excited subsided a bit because I didn't recognize him. Best of luck ByuL nevertheless!
On March 20 2012 00:10 ilbh wrote: not only he was good, but he has the BW practice regiment in his veins. it's scary...
???????????????
When was ByuL "good"?
I guess people look at his 4-1 proleague record and think that.
Yup. Click "all leagues" on his tlpd and magic, 29-38 with à so-so record in dream league and never going past the preliminaries of an individual league.
It's really sad to see fnatic moving towards a fully Korean team, but I can see where they are coming from. Sponsors want exposure, results generate exposure. It's a shame they felt the need to move away from foreign players though. GL in the future.
Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
Just not as rich, and they didn't buy a whole team...
Congrats to fnatic. It's awesome they're starting an academy team to try and grow some players with future potential. Hopefully they consider picking up foreigners too for this academy?
On March 19 2012 23:39 Saechiis wrote: That's cool, he was practically never played by Khan but he did win 4/5 of the games he played, which is way better than most rookies. Curious how he'll do in SC2.
It's because Khan are known for their Protoss line. It's been that way for ages.
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
When amateurs got added to Pro Teams Rosters (and hence turned Pro) people would often already know them from watching replays of amateur practice games.
For example, aMeBa was an amateur Zerg whose replays got "leaked" a lot. He had really entertaining games as an amateur and when he turned pro, I (and other people) were excited to see him play. After turning Pro he didn't do that well and no one considered him to be any good.
I don't know where you found the ByuL comments, but it was not unusual for good amateurs to turn "bad" when going pro (different practice regime, different practice time, nerves for playing live on TV, thought competition, etc).
So "good" and "bad" is a relative term. When comparing aMeBa to other amateurs, he was above average and had a fun style which made him popular (among people who followed amateurs). When he turned pro, he was get to be known by the average BW follower who never saw much of him and considered him "bad" (in Pro's terms).
Talking about ByuL i've never seen that many good games off him, and considering that amount of Zerg competition inside Samsung Khan and how much TV time he got, I'm guessing saying he's "bad" is not a far stretch. (in terms of being a Pro, of course).
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
When amateurs got added to Pro Teams Rosters (and hence turned Pro) people would often already know them from watching replays of amateur practice games.
For example, aMeBa was an amateur Zerg whose replays got "leaked" a lot. He had really entertaining games as an amateur and when he turned pro, I (and other people) were excited to see him play. After turning Pro he didn't do that well and no one considered him to be any good.
I don't know where you found the ByuL comments, but it was not unusual for good amateurs to turn "bad" when going pro (different practice regime, different practice time, nerves for playing live on TV, thought competition, etc).
So "good" and "bad" is a relative term. When comparing aMeBa to other amateurs, he was above average and had a fun style which made him popular (among people who followed amateurs). When he turned pro, he was get to be known by the average BW follower who never saw much of him and considered him "bad" (in Pro's terms).
Talking about ByuL i've never seen that many good games off him, and considering that amount of Zerg competition inside Samsung Khan and how much TV time he got, I'm guessing saying he's "bad" is not a far stretch. (in terms of being a Pro, of course).
PS: aMeBa[S.G] is also known as Startale's AcE.
Thank you for your interesting post! It, in my mind, confirmed my statement (or at least my sentiment) that "bad" in BW and "bad" in Starcraft2 are to different things, and many statement would seem strange if one did not consider the context in which "bad" was used.
I found it by searching for ByuL in the BW-section, I am not claiming that they were a representative selection but it seemed strange that there was so many negative feelings now compared to then. But maybe no one is willing to stick out their neck for him?
Interesting to note was that as late as December 2011 two BW forumgoers seemed excited that ByuL was back in the Samsung-Khan roster. Not many but there wasn't a whole lot of discussion about the topic in general, so it is not insignificant.
I am not proposing that everybody should call him great or even good. But it seems he was an upcoming and interesting rookie and if you judged him thus in Brood War, you should do the same when he goes to SC2. Give him the chance to prove himself first.
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
1. It comes from context, of course.
Many of us used to think of Jaehoon as a pretty bad player (some still do, though less thanks to last season's performance + Ryo's undying passion). There were plenty of rumors that he was a practice bonjwa but Jaehoon never came close to living up to the hype - until last year's 30-win season. Personally, I still believe he's pretty average for a Protoss A-teamer who often gets sent out.
So when, for example, a B-teamer dominated the now-defunct Dream league, people in the BW forums had high expectations. Then, once they were elevated to the A-team and started playing with the "big boys", all illusions fly out the window and they lived and died (figuratively, of course) on their skill and results. That's why you find people calling guys like Zergbong/Nestea, MVP, Forgg/Fin, MC, 1988/MMA, Clare/MKP bad in the BW forums whereas they're definitely top-tier in SC2. Not because of absolute skill (cause that's disputable, different game different era), but because of context.
2. Nada? Boxer? July? Forgg? Pretty much every pro in BW who retires and takes up SC2 is given a good luck because, of course, BW fans have a stake in it. If Nada turned out bad in SC2 (note: he isn't) then we'd be utterly devastated.
Fucking Hyun though. He's better than what his results show in SC2. Learn the damn game.
As a rookie Byul was not bad. He had some potential but wasn't one of the top rookies around. I think there's an error in his TLPD entry. He was originally from Hite Sparkyz and then when Hite merged with CJ, he was on Hite Entus. At the end of 2010, they traded him to Khan.
In November 2011, Khan picked up RorO and then later on, Shine. So Byul was bumped further down the pecking order. Due to the change in format, from a Bo7 to a Bo5, Byul and a couple other Khan rookies left the team in February due to lack of playing opportunities.
Kind of a pointless signing, imo. I'm pretty sure Fnatic can't manage an ex-progamer transitioning to SC2 and give him the environment he needs to succeed. It smells like a cheap "look we signed a progamer from SAMSUNG KHAN" publicity stunt.
He should probably have gone to a decent Korean team like SlayerS or FXO.
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
What negative comments are you referring to? "Byul is the shit" means Byul is awesome.
On March 20 2012 02:55 Talin wrote: Kind of a pointless signing, imo. I'm pretty sure Fnatic can't manage an ex-progamer transitioning to SC2 and give him the environment he needs to succeed. It smells like a cheap "look we signed a progamer from SAMSUNG KHAN" publicity stunt.
He should probably have gone to a decent Korean team like SlayerS or FXO.
Why would they not be able to manage an ex-progamer?
On March 20 2012 02:55 Talin wrote: Kind of a pointless signing, imo. I'm pretty sure Fnatic can't manage an ex-progamer transitioning to SC2 and give him the environment he needs to succeed. It smells like a cheap "look we signed a progamer from SAMSUNG KHAN" publicity stunt.
He should probably have gone to a decent Korean team like SlayerS or FXO.
Why would they not be able to manage an ex-progamer?
Probably hes reffering to training regime being kinda weak outside of top korean teams and/or lack of guidance needed for players who switched from BW to SC2 (Hyun cough, cough, l2p).
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
When amateurs got added to Pro Teams Rosters (and hence turned Pro) people would often already know them from watching replays of amateur practice games.
For example, aMeBa was an amateur Zerg whose replays got "leaked" a lot. He had really entertaining games as an amateur and when he turned pro, I (and other people) were excited to see him play. After turning Pro he didn't do that well and no one considered him to be any good.
I don't know where you found the ByuL comments, but it was not unusual for good amateurs to turn "bad" when going pro (different practice regime, different practice time, nerves for playing live on TV, thought competition, etc).
So "good" and "bad" is a relative term. When comparing aMeBa to other amateurs, he was above average and had a fun style which made him popular (among people who followed amateurs). When he turned pro, he was get to be known by the average BW follower who never saw much of him and considered him "bad" (in Pro's terms).
Talking about ByuL i've never seen that many good games off him, and considering that amount of Zerg competition inside Samsung Khan and how much TV time he got, I'm guessing saying he's "bad" is not a far stretch. (in terms of being a Pro, of course).
PS: aMeBa[S.G] is also known as Startale's AcE.
Thank you for your interesting post! It, in my mind, confirmed my statement (or at least my sentiment) that "bad" in BW and "bad" in Starcraft2 are to different things, and many statement would seem strange if one did not consider the context in which "bad" was used.
I found it by searching for ByuL in the BW-section, I am not claiming that they were a representative selection but it seemed strange that there was so many negative feelings now compared to then. But maybe no one is willing to stick out their neck for him?
Interesting to note was that as late as December 2011 two BW forumgoers seemed excited that ByuL was back in the Samsung-Khan roster. Not many but there wasn't a whole lot of discussion about the topic in general, so it is not insignificant.
I am not proposing that everybody should call him great or even good. But it seems he was an upcoming and interesting rookie and if you judged him thus in Brood War, you should do the same when he goes to SC2. Give him the chance to prove himself first.
No problem.
About everyone giving "him" a chance. Well, when BW was at it's peak, it had lots of players. And even more amateurs trying to break in, so I guess in BW there was maybe this atmosphere of "prove yourself. then we follow you" and not the other way around. (I'm not really sure how that plays out in the SC2 scene).
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
What negative comments are you referring to? "Byul is the shit" means Byul is awesome.
I think he was referring to negative comments in this particular thread, and not back then.
On March 20 2012 02:55 Talin wrote: Kind of a pointless signing, imo. I'm pretty sure Fnatic can't manage an ex-progamer transitioning to SC2 and give him the environment he needs to succeed. It smells like a cheap "look we signed a progamer from SAMSUNG KHAN" publicity stunt.
He should probably have gone to a decent Korean team like SlayerS or FXO.
Fnatic just announced a team house in Korea. They seem to be going in the direction that FXO did. Get moresly Korean players and get a training house there. Both of them seem to be aiming for Korean teams even though they are foreign funded. I can't think of FXO as a foreign team anymore and Fnatic seems to be going the same direction.
ByuL is going to be a top calibur player soon, I imagine he will be in code S in no time, any BW pro switching over I think it wont take long for them to be considered top players, I am so excited to see his games.
On March 20 2012 01:30 StatorFlux wrote: Just for reference I searched TL to find references to ByuL in BW. "[Byun is one of the]--- younger players who have shown some signs of value", "ByuL is the shit." "It was time for ByuL to be added back into the roster."
Why so negative comments here? I think this is due to two things.
1. BW-forums uses another language, a much more polarized language. It is like Idra (sometimes) - they overuse the word bad about players who are actually good, but not among the best. As far as I can tell it is more harsh than SC2. 2. Every ex-BW player who goes to SC2 gets a kick on the way out, sadly, and not a "good luck".
That is why one shouldn't be surprised about these kinds of comments.
1. It comes from context, of course.
Many of us used to think of Jaehoon as a pretty bad player (some still do, though less thanks to last season's performance + Ryo's undying passion). There were plenty of rumors that he was a practice bonjwa but Jaehoon never came close to living up to the hype - until last year's 30-win season. Personally, I still believe he's pretty average for a Protoss A-teamer who often gets sent out.
So when, for example, a B-teamer dominated the now-defunct Dream league, people in the BW forums had high expectations. Then, once they were elevated to the A-team and started playing with the "big boys", all illusions fly out the window and they lived and died (figuratively, of course) on their skill and results. That's why you find people calling guys like Zergbong/Nestea, MVP, Forgg/Fin, MC, 1988/MMA, Clare/MKP bad in the BW forums whereas they're definitely top-tier in SC2. Not because of absolute skill (cause that's disputable, different game different era), but because of context.
2. Nada? Boxer? July? Forgg? Pretty much every pro in BW who retires and takes up SC2 is given a good luck because, of course, BW fans have a stake in it. If Nada turned out bad in SC2 (note: he isn't) then we'd be utterly devastated.
Fucking Hyun though. He's better than what his results show in SC2. Learn the damn game.
Thank you for your post. 1. Thanks for exploring this topic, it expanded my knowledge a little bit and every bit is welcome.
2. Yes, it may be that my judgement is clouded by some few, but very noticeable, individuals who I have come across in threads discussing those who switch or retire completely from BW. I don't know why. Maybe something sticks when you read about NaDa being called traitor by Korean fans or Hyun being called terrible?
It wasn't my intention to tar every BW-fan with the same brush, I am sorry if any of you felt included in any way in my too broad generalization.
On March 20 2012 00:08 Xcobidoo wrote: Hopefully he'll get some time before we start building another forGG-bandwagon for him to crash. Fnatic's lineup is starting to look scary, if only Sen would have stayed aswell :O
Yea ForGG was definitely overhyped, but to be fair, he did make it to Code S really quickly after he started playing in the GSL (don't know how long he practiced before he competed in the GSL). If ByuL shows the same results and gets straight to Code S, it wouldn't live up to the crazy "ForGG to win Code S" hype, but it would still be really impressive.
Edit: Plus it would be great for Fnatic. If they're going to do something in the team league, they're going to need more than one Code S class player. Of course, that isn't to say that ToD, Moon, etc. can't get to that level as well. In fact, I would be surprised if Moon didn't make it to Code S in the next 6 months.
Edit2: I wonder why they didn't acquire Taeja or Ganzi?
On March 20 2012 00:08 Xcobidoo wrote: Hopefully he'll get some time before we start building another forGG-bandwagon for him to crash. Fnatic's lineup is starting to look scary, if only Sen would have stayed aswell :O
Yea ForGG was definitely overhyped, but to be fair, he did make it to Code S really quickly after he started playing in the GSL (don't know how long he practiced before he competed in the GSL). If Byul shows the same results and gets straight to Code S, it wouldn't live up to the crazy "ForGG to win Code S" hype, but it would still be really impressive.
He played for 1 year and a couple of months, started playing in january...
On March 21 2012 02:56 Cosmos wrote: Jyp just lost a game against Byul, playing again against him now (on his stream).
thank you edit: wow he just beat JYP again, I Love how he positions his units. He doesn't engage the protoss army until his sure he can attack it from every angle, really cool to see! Very excited about ByuL now.
EPT
ByuL" Won, the just until recently Brood War progamer.
(most being qualifier games)
