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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 23:45 tapk69 wrote:
Dont put nigger in the same category as faggot ...
Faggot is pretty used around men to insult each other , you can choose to be Gay but you cant choose to be black or white...
Also you are implicating that you consider black people inferior to yourself , like Hitler did with Jews , gypsies and other races!
Race and religion are subjects that should never be touched ...
ugh another biggot, you really think people can choose to be gay?
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Well if it helps the gamers not to act childish all the time it's a good move. Still alot of casters/players are worst than orb and get no repercussion at all.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On March 09 2012 23:45 tapk69 wrote:
Dont put nigger in the same category as faggot ...
Faggot is pretty used around men to insult each other , you can choose to be Gay but you cant choose to be black or white...
Also you are implicating that you consider black people inferior to yourself , like Hitler did with Jews , gypsies and other races!
Race and religion are subjects that should never be touched ...
Being gay isn't a choice.
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On March 09 2012 23:45 tapk69 wrote:
Dont put nigger in the same category as faggot ...
Faggot is pretty used around men to insult each other , you can choose to be Gay but you cant choose to be black or white...
Also you are implicating that you consider black people inferior to yourself , like Hitler did with Jews , gypsies and other races!
Race and religion are subjects that should never be touched ...
To summarize....you can choose sexuality, but not religion?
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On March 09 2012 23:38 BrosephBrostar wrote:
This kind of reaction just shows how hypocritical people really are. How many times have we seen fans cheer for a player just because he was white? Apparently this is perfectly acceptable, but when someone says "nigger" it's time to throw a fit.
That's stupid, people cheer for people they know and can relate to, not because they are white. When I watch hockey or soccer I root for the teams that a) are swedish b) have swedish players. Does that make me a racist? Sure I can appreaciete good play but it's not as interesting.
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On March 09 2012 23:40 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:38 BrosephBrostar wrote:
This kind of reaction just shows how hypocritical people really are. How many times have we seen fans cheer for a player just because he was white? Apparently this is perfectly acceptable, but when someone says "nigger" it's time to throw a fit. cheering for foreigners is completely different, first off your cheering not insulting for a minority and there isnt any insults to the koreans either so those situations are completely different.
The whole division into "foreigners" and "Koreans" is retarded to begin with. How can people claim that it's because Korea was dominant in BW and then turn around and argue that being good at BW doesn't mean being good at SC2? Most SC2 fans never even followed BW.
Why should I cheer for whitera instead of dongraegu? Neither of them are from my country and they both speak my language at about the same level. Whether people want to admit it or not the reason is racism.
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On March 09 2012 23:42 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:34 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:27 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:18 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:16 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:14 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:08 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On March 09 2012 23:04 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 ePLocust wrote:
[quote]
I know it seems silly but in the real world things that you do and say in the past can and will come back and haunt you this is just an example of this. What I'd like to see is Orb keep casting on his own and really focusing on proving that he's cleaned up and I can forgive him. I agree with the decision made by Alex Garfield and EG here when someone is a recent hire you aren't invested heavily enough in them to keep them in the kind of shit storm that was whipped up. funny, because it hasnt haunted destiny yet, only made him money. even after the mia rose incident he is still on quantic. same for idra. but w/e. What happened? with mia Rose. basically sexually harrassed her LIVE on stream back in january. he constantly grabbed her boobs despite her obviously being uncomfortable with it and saying to stop it many times. but everyone batted an eye tot hat. go figure. this community makes me laugh honestly. I didn't know about it. And It is wrong and unacceptable of Destiny. But stop using it as an excuse. If you really believe that Destiny behaved inappropriately, then condemn that behaviour, dont hypocritically raise it to defend another person's behaviour. hyp·o·crite
noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. Don't pretend like you care about Destiny's behaviour. I do, and I don't watch Destiny's stream. I also publicly condemn his behaviour on this thread. See, no different than what I did with Orb. what? have you read any of my posts? I have. /edit You're raising Destiny's behaviour to excuse Orb's behaviour. Both are unacceptable. If you feel Destiny isn't being punished for his behaviour, contact his team/sponsors, make a thread about it, post it in his feedback thread, etc. its been done already, nothing happened because destiny has tons of fans. its been done with idra aswell but nothing has happened because he makes EG money. it happens with orb and he is fired because he is a nobdy. do you now get it? do you now see how stupid the community is? The most I can do for you is to personally boycott Idra and Destiny and make posts of condemnation when I am aware of such behaviour. But I have no magic wand to get them fired. I take problem with the fact that you deny I have any right to criticize Orb's behaviour, when I have not treated him any differently than anyone else - to the best of my ability. um no? i dont give a damn about what you think of orb, but your menatilty along with the rest of the community is what blew this entire situation out of proportion. ive already stated (if you read my previous post which you obviously did not) that i like destiny. i think he is a good zerg player and funny at times. what im angry about is how this situation was handled. a mob went with there pitchforks and guns, hunted down orb, and burned him mercilessly at the stake without knowing the guy or giving him a chance just because of one singe word while IGNORING the much more severe offensive things other players have said/done in the past.
You don't give a damn what I think, but you comment about my 'mentality'.
You still don't understand, I said, "If you really believe that Destiny behaved inappropriately, then condemn that behaviour, dont hypocritically raise it to defend another person's behaviour."
We didn't burn him, we didn't hunt him. We protested his actions through words. Talk about 'blowing this situation out of proportion.'
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Wow, I cannot believe EG fell for the reddit witch hunt. I thought you had more integrity than that, or no wait, I didn't.
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On March 09 2012 23:47 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:40 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 23:38 BrosephBrostar wrote:
This kind of reaction just shows how hypocritical people really are. How many times have we seen fans cheer for a player just because he was white? Apparently this is perfectly acceptable, but when someone says "nigger" it's time to throw a fit. cheering for foreigners is completely different, first off your cheering not insulting for a minority and there isnt any insults to the koreans either so those situations are completely different. The whole division into "foreigners" and "Koreans" is retarded to begin with. How can people claim that it's because Korea was dominant in BW and then turn around and argue that being good at BW doesn't mean being good at SC2? Most SC2 fans never even followed BW. Why should I cheer for whitera instead of dongraegu? Neither of them are from my country and they both speak my language at about the same level. Whether people want to admit it or not the reason is racism.
It's not racism ffs... I´ve played, watched and followed the european scene since the beta and know how fucking awesome whitera is. Why should I root for drg over him? And as said before, it's usually more fun to root for the underdog. A very small percentage would root for Whitera out of racism and it's your position that reeks of ignorance.
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I am disapoointed in EG for this decision. They knew orb was capable of bm, especially since he streamed bming before they hired him. Orb gets falsely (?) acused in the beginning, then people dig up old pictures. The behavior is inconsistent here, idra, huk, and many others should be fired for saying something that could be percieved as racist or homophobic.
Garfields responce is a moral exercise in which he feels he has been violated. I won't be supporting EG and I will be telling all of their sponcors how I will not support a team if they use inconsistent, moralistic arguments in order to better their image. Cmon, your most famous player is known for having terrible manners, try to be consistent.
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Too little too late orb. I still personally feel that you were trying to cover up what you had done but I understand the desperation considering your job was on the line.
Good on EG for making the right decision... this will keep idra in check as well.
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I agree with the OP, but will you take the time out of your day to listen to iNCoNTRoL on State of the Game sometime. He pounds on almost every culture in the world, besides our own.
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On March 09 2012 23:46 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:45 tapk69 wrote:
Dont put nigger in the same category as faggot ...
Faggot is pretty used around men to insult each other , you can choose to be Gay but you cant choose to be black or white...
Also you are implicating that you consider black people inferior to yourself , like Hitler did with Jews , gypsies and other races!
Race and religion are subjects that should never be touched ... To summarize....you can choose sexuality, but not religion?
If your parents guide you with 3 years old to some religion , you are probably going to agree with that religion your whole life...
OK , the point is... Its easy to insult in a game , behind a computer...
But calling a race inferior is a big insult
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i hope orb keeps casting somewhere, and if he accidently lets slip with words like nigger or faggot or pedo or jew, then i will laugh, because my upbringing has not been to take offense to words but to actions and intent.
i was not born in the USA and didnt go through black history or black social studies in school; instead i watched south park where it is funny to call someone a stupid jew (approving genocide) and watched anime where it is funny to see a grown man get sexually teased by a little girl (pedophilia/portrayals of child abuse).
this is because i can see a difference between fake things like words and real things like intent, and dont lump everything together. why would i lump them all together when , to me, there is a clear and vital difference?
words like nigger are used because they are very effective in riling up emotions. NOT because a person hates blacks, but because if he wants to piss off a particular black person then he can do it very easily by using that word! that is NOT racial hatred; it is just effective use of the english language.
if a person has a big nose then you can offend him more easily by calling him a big-nosed twat. if he is black then you can call him a nigger. you DONT hate on either big-nosed people or blacks in general, its just that you're using that word as an effective means to attack.
so , as many people have said, stop getting upset over the WORD - if the word is meaningless to the people who USE it then it should be also meaningless to YOU! it should NOT be offensive to hear the word nigger - it SHOULD be offensive if someone is intentionally discriminating against black people.
which was orb using? (i dont have link to screenshots). i guarantee he was using the word to rile up someone in particular, and he was not discriminating against black people based on their race.
so much wasted energy through this rubbish
the above are my opinions, like i said i was not brought up in a culture that dealt closely with discrimination and i dont have any particular emotional attachment to the subject. it is my opinion that a word shouldnt be offensive , but instead we should pay attention to intentions and significance. does someone just wanna piss someone off, or do they honestly got something wrong with a group of innocent victims? wasting energy over the former is just wasting energy you could use to combat the latter ..
actually its quite sad that someone who commits their time and energy into their job gets fucked off by such a rediculous thing. i know that if i was fired from my job for such a thing, after the energy and care i put into it, i would fucking hate the world
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On March 09 2012 23:41 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:38 BrosephBrostar wrote:
This kind of reaction just shows how hypocritical people really are. How many times have we seen fans cheer for a player just because he was white? Apparently this is perfectly acceptable, but when someone says "nigger" it's time to throw a fit. I assume you are talking about the Korean vs. foreigner thing. National pride is completely different from racist insults and isn't the slightest bit offensive.
Speak for yourself. Personally I find national pride to be grossly offensive, far more so than any racial slur.
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On March 09 2012 23:45 tapk69 wrote:
Dont put nigger in the same category as faggot ...
Faggot is pretty used around men to insult each other , you can choose to be Gay but you cant choose to be black or white...
Also you are implicating that you consider black people inferior to yourself , like Hitler did with Jews , gypsies and other races!
Race and religion are subjects that should never be touched ...
You are fucking kidding me, who belives anymore that gay is a choise . Take and join 2012 ffs.
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No, I think this is a mistake and you are being too sensitive over an issue that was just a personal mistake. I liked Orb, feel pretty bad for him now
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On March 09 2012 23:47 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:40 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 23:38 BrosephBrostar wrote:
This kind of reaction just shows how hypocritical people really are. How many times have we seen fans cheer for a player just because he was white? Apparently this is perfectly acceptable, but when someone says "nigger" it's time to throw a fit. cheering for foreigners is completely different, first off your cheering not insulting for a minority and there isnt any insults to the koreans either so those situations are completely different. The whole division into "foreigners" and "Koreans" is retarded to begin with. How can people claim that it's because Korea was dominant in BW and then turn around and argue that being good at BW doesn't mean being good at SC2? Most SC2 fans never even followed BW. Why should I cheer for whitera instead of dongraegu? Neither of them are from my country and they both speak my language at about the same level. Whether people want to admit it or not the reason is racism.
BW and SC2 aren't the same game but there are a lot of transferable skills, so yes playing BW definitely helps you play SC2. Add to that the training regimen brought over from BW gives the Korean scene an advantage which is fairly obvious from results.
There isn't any inherent reason for cheering for one player over another, people have their own reason for it be it cheering for the underdog, a player they like the play style of or any other number of reasons. I think a lot of cheering for foreigners to beat Koreans is so that SC2 doesn't have the foreigner / Korean divide
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Very nicely written post! I've found my self having more and more respect for Team EG and its representatives over the last year, i've gone from not really liking you guys when i first started socialising in the StarCraft comunity to to seeing you as a true top team, at the forefront of eSport development.
Personally i use words like/similar to "Nigger" and "Faggot" in friendly banter with friends sometimes, but i would never use it as a seriously intended insult. And i only do it with friends whom i know will not be offended. Also, i don't see the point of writing "n-----" and "f-----", since people will still read it as "Nigger" and "Faggot. In the words of Louis C.K: All you do by saying "The N word" (as opposed to just saying "Nigger") is forcing the person to think the word in their head, without having to say it your self. There is a huge difference to saying the word as an insult, or just mentioning a word in an explainatory fashion. Saying "the N word" is just white people getting away with saying "Nigger" in a politically correct way. But i can also see why people would disagree with me on this.
Peace.
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On March 09 2012 23:47 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:34 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:27 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:18 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:16 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:14 plogamer wrote:On March 09 2012 23:08 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 23:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On March 09 2012 23:04 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
funny, because it hasnt haunted destiny yet, only made him money. even after the mia rose incident he is still on quantic. same for idra. but w/e. What happened? with mia Rose. basically sexually harrassed her LIVE on stream back in january. he constantly grabbed her boobs despite her obviously being uncomfortable with it and saying to stop it many times. but everyone batted an eye tot hat. go figure. this community makes me laugh honestly. I didn't know about it. And It is wrong and unacceptable of Destiny. But stop using it as an excuse. If you really believe that Destiny behaved inappropriately, then condemn that behaviour, dont hypocritically raise it to defend another person's behaviour. hyp·o·crite
noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. Don't pretend like you care about Destiny's behaviour. I do, and I don't watch Destiny's stream. I also publicly condemn his behaviour on this thread. See, no different than what I did with Orb. what? have you read any of my posts? I have. /edit You're raising Destiny's behaviour to excuse Orb's behaviour. Both are unacceptable. If you feel Destiny isn't being punished for his behaviour, contact his team/sponsors, make a thread about it, post it in his feedback thread, etc. its been done already, nothing happened because destiny has tons of fans. its been done with idra aswell but nothing has happened because he makes EG money. it happens with orb and he is fired because he is a nobdy. do you now get it? do you now see how stupid the community is? The most I can do for you is to personally boycott Idra and Destiny and make posts of condemnation when I am aware of such behaviour. But I have no magic wand to get them fired. I take problem with the fact that you deny I have any right to criticize Orb's behaviour, when I have not treated him any differently than anyone else - to the best of my ability. um no? i dont give a damn about what you think of orb, but your menatilty along with the rest of the community is what blew this entire situation out of proportion. ive already stated (if you read my previous post which you obviously did not) that i like destiny. i think he is a good zerg player and funny at times. what im angry about is how this situation was handled. a mob went with there pitchforks and guns, hunted down orb, and burned him mercilessly at the stake without knowing the guy or giving him a chance just because of one singe word while IGNORING the much more severe offensive things other players have said/done in the past. You don't give a damn what I think, but you comment about my 'mentality'. You still don't understand, I said, " If you really believe that Destiny behaved inappropriately, then condemn that behaviour, dont hypocritically raise it to defend another person's behaviour." We didn't burn him, we didn't hunt him. We protested his actions through words. Talk about 'blowing this situation out of proportion.'
*facepalm* i really hate arguing with people like you. first off stop quoting only a portion of my post. i said my grief is with THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE and not you personaly, so STOP taking it as some personal attack against you.
also dont try to deny the situation. some random dude dug up screen shots from over a year ago, posted on reddit, and then continued to take it out of proportion. even went as far as going directly to the sponsors. this incident occured 1+ year ago, orb has been trying hard to clean up his act the last few monts. so WHY bring something from his past to harm him? WHY start up drama and stir up old demons of the past? what was the reason for this drama? do you all just ignore how clean orb has been for awhile now?
the answer is yes, you have. because all you have to go on is a few year old screen shot.
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EPT
