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Ladder flaws when race switching - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Nallen
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom134 Posts
March 06 2012 12:28 GMT
#161
If you want to lean a new race do it in customs not on the ladder. That was hard to solve.
naggerNZ
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand708 Posts
March 06 2012 12:34 GMT
#162
Why won't these threads die...

Look, if you want to play a different race without tanking your rating or waiting for your MMR to adjust, buy a new account. The vast majority of players don't switch races, and having three separate ladder positions for each race is an incredibly messy and inefficient solution to a very insignificant problem.
lastshadow
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1372 Posts
March 06 2012 12:45 GMT
#163
Accounts shouldn't have a ladder for each race, how fair would it be if a person with 3 accounts (lets use MVP for example, surely capable of GM with all 3 race) got into GM with all 3 race, on all 3 accounts, including random on both, thus securing 11 GM spots?
Patience is a small price to pay for perfection.
m1rk3
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada412 Posts
March 06 2012 12:49 GMT
#164
if people were allowed to race switch don't you think some high level players would just switch their race so they can bash on those poor silver leaguers for kicks
For the Dominion!
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
March 06 2012 12:54 GMT
#165
On March 06 2012 21:34 naggerNZ wrote:
Why won't these threads die...

Look, if you want to play a different race without tanking your rating or waiting for your MMR to adjust, buy a new account. The vast majority of players don't switch races, and having three separate ladder positions for each race is an incredibly messy and inefficient solution to a very insignificant problem.

Actually I believe more players race switch than what don't. I mean think about it, there are more casuals than hardcore gamers playing Starcraft2 as you can tell with how full Bronze league is. These people even some masters play casual(Me since I'm to busy with work and school to actually improve) and would like the ability to play the different races in 1v1 without just getting stomped. Hell I'd be fine if they made a custom map in which you could choose your race and people could search for games for example in BW I only played TvZ I loved it. So all my games were labled "TvZ you Z" and I would enjoy all my matches. This option doesn't exist in Starcraft2 so if you don't enjoy 2/3 of the matchups you are just out of luck and having to grind these match ups you don't want to play when you are limited for time sucks. It really does. With Zerg I hated ZvP and ZvZ but loved ZvT I would never get ZvT so I grew bored of the game. I switched to Terran and I'm having fun with the game. I just hated getting on ladder because I knew I would get ZvZ and ZvP and I didn't want to play those matchups but I wanted to play. There was no other way to combat this in the game itself other than race switching. Which wasn't a problem for me as I had solid-ish macro and I'm a firm believer macro alone will get you to masters.

These players get bored with playing the same race everyday and just want a slight change maybe a few games every couple days with an offrace just for FUN and still keep their ranking on their main race. But the current system doesn't allow this. So they have to lose ranking just to play other players their levels. Don't even suggest custom games as I've done that. You either get a masters player that completly stomps you or a bronze player that doesn't even know how to play.

But for the players that want to make the switch 100% like I did I feel an option to change races like you change names even charge for it if you want. Say you get 2 free and you can reset your ladder ranking on the condition that you can't choose the race you had played on ladder before untill you reach atleast that level with the race you switched to.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
March 06 2012 12:55 GMT
#166
On March 06 2012 21:45 lastshadow wrote:
Accounts shouldn't have a ladder for each race, how fair would it be if a person with 3 accounts (lets use MVP for example, surely capable of GM with all 3 race) got into GM with all 3 race, on all 3 accounts, including random on both, thus securing 11 GM spots?

I feel an easy fix to that is you can only reach GM with one of the races and the others are locked in Masters(Or what ever league). Simple and easy fix as no one needs more than one name in GM as its unfair to the other players.
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 12:58:12
March 06 2012 12:57 GMT
#167
I really don't see how a different 1v1 rating for each race is "messy". You can currently have multiple 2v2 rankings because your skill level as a team will be different depending on your partner. It would be very easy to implement the same thing in 1v1 for each race.

As far as smurfing is concerned- smurfs are gonna smurf whether it's playing on a buddy's account, insta-quitting to tank their MMR, or buying a new account. At least there is some transparency with a new 1v1 system of 4 rankings, because everyone can see "hey this guy actually hit master with X race".

To the person who gave an example of a pro hitting GM 12 times with 3 different accounts, do you really think a pro is going to waste all that time fking around with off races to hit GM on 12 accounts? And if he really wants it so bad, what is stopping him from buying multiple accounts or using a buddy's account to do it? Most of these rebuttals are just silly.
Nihilnovi
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden696 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 12:59:56
March 06 2012 12:59 GMT
#168
I really don't agree. It isn't hard to learn a new race at all, mechanics and timings carry over, you get used to the new style of macro relatively easy and painfree. I play master toss and bought a new acc to play terran cos I thought this would be an issue. Well, I was master on T in under 20 games and found the "switch" to be very easy and smooth.

The races in SC2 are so similar it makes switching rather easy, you just go marine tank in tvz/t and mmm in tvp, and that's about it to make it to master, not like you really have any other options anyway
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
March 06 2012 13:00 GMT
#169
On March 06 2012 21:34 naggerNZ wrote:
Why won't these threads die...

Look, if you want to play a different race without tanking your rating or waiting for your MMR to adjust, buy a new account. The vast majority of players don't switch races, and having three separate ladder positions for each race is an incredibly messy and inefficient solution to a very insignificant problem.


Please explain a few things.

1) Why is it messy?

2) Vast majority of players don't switch races? What are you basing this off of? Everyone I know that plays this game enjoys playing more than one race.

3) How is this an inefficient solution? Shelling out another $50 for each race is efficient?
naggerNZ
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand708 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 13:01:51
March 06 2012 13:01 GMT
#170
An issue I think would arise from having separate MMR for each race is that the ladder would lose much of it's capacity to quantify player skill. A diamond player off-racing will lose to sub-diamond players due to weaker mechanics/matchup knowledge, however there will definitely be aspects of the game in which they will still be far superior to their opponents.

The current ladder system rates your maximum potential. The best performance you can give with whatever race you choose to play.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 13:07:32
March 06 2012 13:04 GMT
#171
On March 06 2012 21:59 Nihilnovi wrote:
I really don't agree. It isn't hard to learn a new race at all, mechanics and timings carry over, you get used to the new style of macro relatively easy and painfree. I play master toss and bought a new acc to play terran cos I thought this would be an issue. Well, I was master on T in under 20 games and found the "switch" to be very easy and smooth.

The races in SC2 are so similar it makes switching rather easy, you just go marine tank in tvz/t and mmm in tvp, and that's about it to make it to master, not like you really have any other options anyway

Thats the issue in my opinion. Why should I throw another 50$ at the game to play something that is INCLUDED in my original purchase of the game. I bought the game to play and enjoy and sitting there leaving game after game or losing game after game isn't fun or enjoyable. But I agree its easy for master players to switch as all you need is solid macro and you'll be carried far. But think about the golds, plats, and diamonds that feel accomplished when ranking up but then have to shatter all that just to change races because their bored or buy the game again. It just doesn't make sense.

@NaggerNZ

Still doesn't matter. It would be exactly the same as them being a completely diffrent person on the ladder. Consider someone got masters with Zerg and they switched to Protoss with the different MMR rating that person would be say a Plat Protoss fighting Plat players. How does that change anything at all? Those Plat players are vsing another plat player. Its all the same no matter if they have a higher level race or not.
naggerNZ
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand708 Posts
March 06 2012 13:17 GMT
#172
Ok, let me put it like this. I don't want to have to do 5 placement matches with each race just so I can off-race every now and then. I don't want to have to manage 3 (potentially 4) different MMRs and ladder ranks, spend 3 different bonus pools. I would rather be able to play players at my main-race skill when I off-race.

Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
March 06 2012 13:18 GMT
#173
Join peepmodes.

But seriously, while I agree it would be nice for us to have individual ladders per race, I don't see a need. If you're getting beat constantly by better players (despite being able to beat them as your main race) you're going to get better and learn your stuff faster. Even by playing against the AI you're going to improve your mechanics and get back to where you need to be.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 13:21:59
March 06 2012 13:21 GMT
#174
Well then don't race switch. Problem solved as you stated "The vast majority of players don't switch races" be one of those players. I don't really see why you would have to give them all diffrent bonus pools just make the pool work on all three races so that players that don't care about ranking can play any race and those who do but also off-race can spend all their bonus pool on their main race and then go off-race. You wouldn't have to 'mange' anything. Players race switch for fun afaik thats why I did it. You shouldn't have to look at it as a job.
naggerNZ
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand708 Posts
March 06 2012 13:31 GMT
#175
Race switching and off-racing are totally different things.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
March 06 2012 13:38 GMT
#176
Obiously. But the answer to both is one in the same. If someone wants to switch with that method they can, if someone wants to offrace they can. I personally full race switched only play Terran now. But sometimes I would like to play a couple games as Zerg.
SovSov
Profile Joined September 2010
United States755 Posts
March 06 2012 13:49 GMT
#177
I would play Terran seriously since I wish I could play Terran on ladder.

But my Protoss rating would be a complete troll account. I would do the stupid shit and only fuck around on it.

This is an issue Blizzard has to realize, a lot of people will use these accounts to troll or smurf on.
IIIOmegaIII
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden319 Posts
March 06 2012 13:51 GMT
#178
ladder resets doesnt reset ur mmr.. its just a placement game for ur league. the mmr is still the same as the previous season.
NoobStyles
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Australia257 Posts
March 06 2012 13:59 GMT
#179
Holy shit, OP you've uncovered a huge scandal. I wonder how no one else thought of this till now

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=switch race&t=t&f=19&u=&gb=date&d=
BBQSAC
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia89 Posts
March 06 2012 14:18 GMT
#180
I am gold zerg on SEA, I played some 2v2 / 3v3 games and a few customs against a bronze level mate and a week later I placed gold as protoss on my NA account. Up until the pro maybe high master level race switching is a non-issue as basic mechanics and game sense are all that really matters. Seems a bit like an unnecessary whine.
Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem.
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