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Prize money in Starcraft 2 - Page 60

Forum Index > SC2 General
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G3nXsiS
Profile Joined July 2009
United States656 Posts
November 01 2011 04:01 GMT
#1181
I feel your pain, it sucks not being rewarded for something you earned and worked for.
Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment
ES_JohnClark
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1121 Posts
November 01 2011 04:11 GMT
#1182
On November 01 2011 11:07 monx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 08:08 csn_JohnClark wrote:
On November 01 2011 07:11 FlyingDJ wrote:
Well, this thread pretty much shows how most have not been around for a long time.

It's clear that most StarCraft 2 players have not been exposed the the delays in paying out prize money because they were rarely part of major esports tournaments before the release of that game. Ask someone who's been playing before 2009. That was when ESL was held in high regard because they paid out, even if it took a long time. Not a thing you could take for granted.

Now with money being thrown at SC2 like there's no tomorrow, everyone here is suddenly going crazy about how delays cannot be and how apparently players starve when they're not being paid on time. A couple of years ago you would have ended up with no tournaments at all had you decided to boycott those who had delayed payout in prizes. That's what this has always been like. Does it need to change? Probably, but it's not going to happen over night. ESL is one of the only tournaments that made it through the recession that followed 2008, and they don't get the amounts of venture capital that MLG carries around these days.

Instead of posting about it on a forum, the players might consider actually forming some kind of organisation to help in those matters. Doesn't seem too much work to me. And even if not, they could just boycott the tournaments they think do not pay out prize money on time. What's that, there are almost none left then? Oh well...

It's such a hypocrisy that everyone is always applauding insane prize pools and players tend to follow the sums instead of the reputation yet at the same time, any delay is totally unacceptable. Do you honestly believe most of the current tournaments have a sustainable business model that returns their investment?



just now getting to this post.. but very well said!


are you retarded? Always defending posts that defends this system. And like iNControl said, players have past experiences in other games too. A lot of events are just trolling the players by waiting so long to pay them. And you, as a manager (i suppose) of CSN you're defending this...rofl

A player organization won't change a shit since it would be formed of players anyway. TL is a place to get shit out...like other medias...i don't understand why people like feel offended. I know CSN is doing it right but still why the approval?



Please read my most current comments. I hope it helps you better understand why I am trying to remain level headed. I certainly do not want you or others to see me as defending actions that are irresponsible or fraud. I just think there are a lot of people jumping on the hate-wagon that lack a real understanding and I think it's bad for eSports. Yes.. its also bad for eSports to have organizations out there that fail to pay!
Still Naked!
Blizzard_torments_me
Profile Joined February 2010
Romania199 Posts
November 01 2011 04:23 GMT
#1183
It's amazing really, I've won a local Romanian SC2 cup once and they paid out instantly, and it seems sponsors from far more wealthier and corruption free countries can't pay out their prize money. Pathetic is all I have to say.
Thebbeuttiffulland
Profile Joined October 2011
Brazil288 Posts
November 01 2011 04:31 GMT
#1184
well its still better than having like 1 tournament a week
truth is out there
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9021 Posts
November 01 2011 04:32 GMT
#1185
How about paying in cash right at the place? (for LANs).
DuFFmAn69
Profile Joined March 2010
United States78 Posts
November 01 2011 04:33 GMT
#1186
On November 01 2011 12:31 GenoPewPew wrote:
That means that you should bother the hell out of Fireflash until he pays up

i have, and he's promised to get it to me soon many times. the latest was him asking me for my real ID so he could contact me after mlg. but he recently removed me from real friend so i had to lurk in ONE's channel to get a hold of him, so that he could ignore all my comments.
BlitchizSC2
Profile Joined August 2010
United States306 Posts
November 01 2011 04:35 GMT
#1187
Why not get the 'logistics' done prior to the tournament. Its money allocation, put the prize pool in an account ezpz. When we (University of Cincinnati) took second place @ CES, MLG payed us out in cash right after.
www.twitch.tv/blitchizsc2 | http://www.youtube.com/BlitchizStarcraft ~ fighting!
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
November 01 2011 04:39 GMT
#1188
yeah this is definitely a problem. I would like to vouch that any cevo run event in my experience has paid out very promptly and been very pleasant events to play in. I don't cash out or win stuff often (maybe once or twice small things a month) but they sent emails and as soon as you filled out paperwork they shipped prize and sent money.
ThE_OsToJiY
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada1167 Posts
November 01 2011 04:40 GMT
#1189
On November 01 2011 13:39 LuckyFool wrote:
yeah this is definitely a problem. I would like to vouch that any cevo run event in my experience has paid out very promptly and been very pleasant events to play in. I don't cash out or win stuff often (maybe once or twice small things a month) but they sent emails and as soon as you filled out paperwork they shipped prize and sent money.


I can vouch that they didn't send me shit :\
@ostojiy
CakeMaster
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada65 Posts
November 01 2011 04:40 GMT
#1190
Seems like that should be illegal. In most tournaments you have to pay to get in, and even if you dont have to, that's a complete rip off. That really sucks!
If there was a comment on this already, shush, i didnt read it.
EG.HuK Fighting!
worosei
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia198 Posts
November 01 2011 04:43 GMT
#1191
Late payments is an inherent risk of doing business these days, however this is definitely not something that should be happening or expected. Especially as TotalBiscuit pointed out, for people wanting to start pro-gaming, and especially when professional e-sports is still early in development not something that should be happening.

I am not excusing organisers who do not pay out, but I think a large part comes from bully mentality of sponsors, or general delay tactics of businesses.

I think that a lot of these sponsors have 'bully' mentalities. A small online tournament manages to pick up a big name sponsor, say Logitech, to give a free mouse and $200 to the winner. There aren't many sponsors a small tournament organiser can go to, so even with late payment or being able to be bullied, these organisers dont have a choice. And then the problem is that payment eventually comes through, but it just takes a lot of time and effort to actually make them pay.

Legal fees are huge, and especially at this international level, it seems impractical to take action against an international sponsor who likely has its own legal department, and the fees would be more than what the organiser is hoping to get. Further it jeopardises the ability to get sponsored anymore.

With smaller-scaled sponsors, paying money is a tight balancing trick of paying at the last minute to keep your cashflows healthy and i guess maximising interest. There are often also company policies on when payments should be made, which delays payment. For the players receiving tournament money, I think this means they just face having ridiculously long waiting times to receive their money. (90 days for sponsor to pays organiser, 90 days for organiser to pay gamer)

This is unfortunately thoroughly detrimental for pro-gamers who dont have any corporate body to assist in them getting money. Perhaps it would be nice seeing pro-gaming teams taking more active role in being able to assist with the debt collection of their players, although the interest in doing so seems minimal benefit to the pro-teams. Further I think it would also be thoroughly messy having your financials in essence controlled by your gaming team.

It's annoying, you will get paid, however you have to constantly chase up on payments. If you do not chase, you just wont get paid as it gets 'lost' in the mail.

Im curious to hear what stories organisers have had in getting their payment from sponsors,

and would also like to find out from TeamLiquid, EG, FXO etc.. how difficult it is for them as pro-gaming teams to actually receive their sponsorship money too.
NineteenSC2
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada117 Posts
November 01 2011 04:43 GMT
#1192
Wow, these people deserve to be sued. Why on earth are they hosting tournaments and advertising their sponsors when they don't have money to pay the players? This is so selfish, greedy, and downright abusive that these people need to have some kind of action taken against them.
S2 & S3 Grandmaster Protoss. Justin.tv/nineteensc2 for my new stream
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 04:48:44
November 01 2011 04:48 GMT
#1193
On November 01 2011 13:40 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 13:39 LuckyFool wrote:
yeah this is definitely a problem. I would like to vouch that any cevo run event in my experience has paid out very promptly and been very pleasant events to play in. I don't cash out or win stuff often (maybe once or twice small things a month) but they sent emails and as soon as you filled out paperwork they shipped prize and sent money.


I can vouch that they didn't send me shit :\


what really? did you fill out forms in time? what event? that sucks...I won a bunch of stuff from some ttesports pro-am tournament or something it was managed by cevo people and I had a really positive experience.. >_<;
Deshkar
Profile Joined June 2011
Singapore1244 Posts
November 01 2011 04:49 GMT
#1194
This can all backfire, and result in many sponsors and organizers leaving the scene. People should be careful with their pitchforks especially at who they aim it at, not all organizations should be lumped together and they should not be unwitting victims of a witch hunt.

akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
November 01 2011 04:50 GMT
#1195
top players should just boycott tournaments that are known to not pay out. no one will watch a tournament if there aren't players like huk, idra, mc, white-ra, stephano...etc in it. pros need to collectively band together and form a pseudo-players union just for this purpose.

i know for other competitive video games, tournaments that did not pay out have their names blacklisted on the main forums. no one would ever go to their tournaments again.
olmnator
Profile Joined December 2010
Panama30 Posts
November 01 2011 04:52 GMT
#1196
Thats so sad :/ good thing to know anyway never knew this part of tournaments.
Chodes
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada212 Posts
November 01 2011 04:53 GMT
#1197
Who Cares
Poll: Will You Still Continue To Watch Tournaments Who Have Been Outed?

No (132)
 
75%

Yes (34)
 
19%

Yes but wont like it (7)
 
4%

Never have never will now (3)
 
2%

176 total votes

Your vote: Will You Still Continue To Watch Tournaments Who Have Been Outed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes but wont like it
(Vote): Never have never will now

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | "Sup Son"- SeleCT"~~MMA Fighting!!
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
November 01 2011 04:53 GMT
#1198
It really sucks that players must deal with this type of crap.

If only TL ran everything... TL for SC2 KeSpa!
sudo.era
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States300 Posts
November 01 2011 04:58 GMT
#1199
On November 01 2011 07:29 aTnClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 07:27 Enhancer_ wrote:
On November 01 2011 07:01 quakerix wrote:
On November 01 2011 06:04 AndersR. wrote:
Kinda feel like ESWC has been bashed a bit too much in this thread, the owners now are not the ones who were known for not paying out the money, that where the previous owners who went bankruptcy with the brand. I'm pretty sure that the current owners have done a fine job paying out, at least as far as i remember that was what Na'Vi.cs said last year after they won it.


Thank you. I'm extremely surprised that aTnCloud already posted about ESWC not paying out just a few days after the event. We didn't even finish up logistically and this event is already listed in this topic.

Ok, i can imagine that because of the previous company going bankrupt the brand had some damage. But posting this before even contacting us is a bit harsh towards the new owners. Last year they paid out just a few weeks after the event and now we didn't even had the chance.

You could have contacted us in 100 ways, your management has direct contacts with us, you could have replied to your invite email you could have even gone to our website and look up contact information.

Anyway; i messaged you privately and i also already replied to you in the ESWC topic a few days earlier.

Give us a break and we'll contact you as soon as possible.

On November 01 2011 01:48 Jcnorheim wrote:
I am sorry that this happens.

Many community figures talk about how events compete with one another for viewers, and I think that this is definitely one of the factors that concerns at least some viewers.

On the other side of the coin though, ESWC probably didn't get nearly enough viewers due to having to compete with Blizzcon. So they already lost the competition for viewers. Maybe ESWC will use that as an excuse to disappear again.


We had 100k simultaneous viewers as peak during our weekend and there were about 1500 people watching games at the stage.

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

Don't worry about the fact that ESWC wasn't a success. It was.

Something is still wrong with the idea that you expect players to have to contact you to get an update on the money owed to them. If you owe someone money, the responsibility is on you to pay it it.

Or at least that's how I think it should be.

I think the same, but he thought it was wise to PM me saying I put ESWC in bad light for no reason and I might not get invited next year because of it. lol.

Tell them they're not getting my damn ad support.
hybridsc
Profile Joined November 2010
United States63 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 05:06:57
November 01 2011 05:01 GMT
#1200
On November 01 2011 12:43 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 12:26 DoomsVille wrote:
Quakerix posted this on Reddit:
Hello Cloud,
I was reading your topic on the price money issue.
I'm extremely disappointed in the fact that you publicly put the ESWC brand in a bad spot light just a few days after our event. You decided to go public first instead of asking us about it. You say that you have no idea who to talk to, but you could have replied to your invitation email. Visit our website for contact information or ask your management for our contact information. From my point of view you didn't put much effort into the contacting us. Posting before asking is a really bad move towards any organisation.
The new owners of the ESWC paid out price money last year in less than 1 month. Which is extremely fast in my opinion.
I can totally imagine your fear or your problems with organisations regarding pay out. But you should be careful. Not to threaten you, but just to explain you why. Can you imagine, that if I want to invite you next year that my bosses will ask me "why would you invite a player that posted unjustified bad news about us".
That's not the situation I want to be in because I loved the fact that you attended our event as an Italian representative. You getting top8 justified my invite as well.
Anyway; it takes about 1 to 2 weeks for us to finish logistics for the event. After that we take care of price money. We have your mail address from the application, you'll be contacted regarding bank information. You can always message me on Skype: *. teamliquid, mail() whatever.
With kind regards,


Put your pitchforks away people. Cloud sure did exaggerate the hell out of that PM.


Thats such a weird pr response. He didn't post his response in the TL thread but the reddit thread in response to the tl thread. Its incredibly stupid as well as it just listed along with the other ones that havn't paid out to him yet. Darkforce backed him up with another list so that its just not his own raving about. He shouldn't talk like that at all. whoever bought the organization wants to use the brand so people can remember some of its history but not all of it? what kind of messed up stuff is that? The organizers should be aggressive in paying off and investigating if they paid or not like IPL instead of trying to make shame some player who blew the whistle on reddit.


This exactly. Who the fuck is that guy to give shit to ClouD for bringing up an (obviously) important topic. ClouD even clarified his remarks and made special exception to ESWC. Quakerix is acting like this is some isolated incident, when in reality ESWC and other major tournaments all have similar problems of straight-up fraud. Why is it ClouD's responsibility to chase you guys down? Do you think his suspicions are unjust? Given the circumstances, I wouldn't say so. Your whole attitude on this topic is wrong. Take a note from IPL who, at least in appearance, seem like they're earnestly trying to fix their shit up and separate themselves from this shitshow. Instead you're acting all offended as if this post is a huge disservice to you guys. Well look it wouldn't be if you just paid the man and he cleared you guys publicly. What do you expect him to do when you show up with that condescending tone. What is ESWC without your players and fans? As an organization this is a chance to distinguish yourself and show that you care; not get all defensive. What horrible PR. (dumb fuck)

And you know what, regardless of whether or not this issue has anything to do with the tournament organizers as opposed to the sponsors, my point is you shouldn't be pointing fingers at the players and fans. It's our duty to bring this shit up so it stops becoming a recurring problem.
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