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253 Posts
Here's who I think will win:
Monday November 7th (05:10 EDT (-04:00))
Keen vs. RevivaL
CrazymovING vs. HerO
SUPERSTAR vs. Brown
FruitDealer vs. Alicia
TOP vs. Parting
Monday November 14th (05:10 EDT (-04:00))
Tassadar vs. SeleCT
Genius vs. Symbol
Sage vs. Fin (fOrGG)
JYP vs. SaSe
Lucky vs. NaNiwa
Monday November 21st (05:10 EDT (-04:00))
HongUn vs. Luvsic
Noblesse vs. InCa
Check vs. Squirtle
Monster vs. JookTo
Dream vs. BoxeR
oGsZenio vs. Mujuk
Of course, I'd prefer it that Terran always loses to their opponents, sometimes its just not going to happen 
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I think Fruit will beat alicia
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Hero better win his game!
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On October 28 2011 10:01 Zephirdd wrote:
Wait, so Idra/Demuslim will only join on December?
Also, Tassadar versus SeleCT. SIIIICK.
And who is that zerg versus HerO? GO HERO.
Foreign players are placed into the up and down matches. The up and down matches are still part of the play of the current season. By pure probability, if you are seeded into code A in the current GSL, you have about a 50% chance of being eliminated entirely from the GSL after 1 round of play (slightly higher if the assumption that the code S players being dropped down are better than your average code A player). You also have only about a 5.5% chance to go directly into Code S, and including your chance to clear Code S from up and downs, your total chance of getting into code S is still only about 22.3%.
If you are seeded into the Up and Down matches, you have a 100% chance to either be in code A, or code S next season. and your chance of being in code S in the next season is %33.33.
The first round of GSL is the elimination round. It's safer for foreigners to effectively be able to skip it and go into the up and downs right away. This is a good move on GOM's part because it guarantees more foreigner exposure (since you play a minimum of 5 matches in up and down, and THEN are seeded into either Code A or Code S) and also eliminates the "oh he just got into Korea last night and is still jet lagged to hell, no wonder he wasn't able to perform well" excuses. Basically, the up and down seeds are good for the viewers, and good for GOM. It's only really arguable that it may be bad for players since they have to play more games before getting paid (however, it gives them more chances to prove themselves too).
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SO MANY PROTOSS WOWOW
great to see the code A get so many new faces (and some old familiar ones too!)
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On October 30 2011 07:26 SwiftSpear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 10:01 Zephirdd wrote:
Wait, so Idra/Demuslim will only join on December?
Also, Tassadar versus SeleCT. SIIIICK.
And who is that zerg versus HerO? GO HERO. Foreign players are placed into the up and down matches. The up and down matches are still part of the play of the current season. By pure probability, if you are seeded into code A in the current GSL, you have about a 50% chance of being eliminated entirely from the GSL after 1 round of play (slightly higher if the assumption that the code S players being dropped down are better than your average code A player). You also have only about a 5.5% chance to go directly into Code S, and including your chance to clear Code S from up and downs, your total chance of getting into code S is still only about 22.3%. If you are seeded into the Up and Down matches, you have a 100% chance to either be in code A, or code S next season. and your chance of being in code S in the next season is %33.33. The first round of GSL is the elimination round. It's safer for foreigners to effectively be able to skip it and go into the up and downs right away. This is a good move on GOM's part because it guarantees more foreigner exposure (since you play a minimum of 5 matches in up and down, and THEN are seeded into either Code A or Code S) and also eliminates the "oh he just got into Korea last night and is still jet lagged to hell, no wonder he wasn't able to perform well" excuses. Basically, the up and down seeds are good for the viewers, and good for GOM. It's only really arguable that it may be bad for players since they have to play more games before getting paid (however, it gives them more chances to prove themselves too).
You sir, just put it so perfectly that I'm gonna add it to the OP.
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Wait, what? >_> Why did Idra and Demuslim get free up&down spots? It doesn't make any sense to me. Did TeamEG pay gomtv for Idra/Demuslim to get seeded? I can't find any other reason. Been searching everywhere. Please enlighten me.
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Resurrecting this thread in order to include updated matches (spoilers from Code S though...)
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On November 01 2011 23:18 NKsc2 wrote:
Wait, what? >_> Why did Idra and Demuslim get free up&down spots? It doesn't make any sense to me. Did TeamEG pay gomtv for Idra/Demuslim to get seeded? I can't find any other reason. Been searching everywhere. Please enlighten me.
Idra won IEM China and got 4th at the last MLG. He also never really lost his Code S spot, so arguing against this one is really pointless.
Demuslim had a terrifying run through the open bracket into the championship bracket of MLG... Columbus? Regardless, it was probably one of the most impressive feats of the tournament.
So, in the old GSL, these two definitely would've been invited to Code A. Read the post above regarding why that isn't a good deal for GOM.
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It feels like all the strong players are matched up against each other too quickly....but then again there are just so many strong players.
I really hope the foreigners do well! Select/SaSe/Naniwa hwaiitinggggg!!!
Also I want to see more of ForGG so I hope he does well too :3
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Large group of awesome players in there. Rooting for Hero & Boxer though!
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On October 30 2011 07:26 SwiftSpear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 10:01 Zephirdd wrote:
Wait, so Idra/Demuslim will only join on December?
Also, Tassadar versus SeleCT. SIIIICK.
And who is that zerg versus HerO? GO HERO. Foreign players are placed into the up and down matches. The up and down matches are still part of the play of the current season. By pure probability, if you are seeded into code A in the current GSL, you have about a 50% chance of being eliminated entirely from the GSL after 1 round of play (slightly higher if the assumption that the code S players being dropped down are better than your average code A player). You also have only about a 5.5% chance to go directly into Code S, and including your chance to clear Code S from up and downs, your total chance of getting into code S is still only about 22.3%. If you are seeded into the Up and Down matches, you have a 100% chance to either be in code A, or code S next season. and your chance of being in code S in the next season is %33.33. The first round of GSL is the elimination round. It's safer for foreigners to effectively be able to skip it and go into the up and downs right away. This is a good move on GOM's part because it guarantees more foreigner exposure (since you play a minimum of 5 matches in up and down, and THEN are seeded into either Code A or Code S) and also eliminates the "oh he just got into Korea last night and is still jet lagged to hell, no wonder he wasn't able to perform well" excuses. Basically, the up and down seeds are good for the viewers, and good for GOM. It's only really arguable that it may be bad for players since they have to play more games before getting paid (however, it gives them more chances to prove themselves too).
What? you're just expanding an obvious explanation into details, that most people are already aware of; what we're asking why is more of "how is this fair at all in the interest of the competition?"
Basically, you're saying they're put into Up and Down because then there will be a higher chance of them getting into Code S (relative to them being put straight into Code A instead), and they will at least guarantee at least Code A next season; and this will therefore please the foreigners and increase viewer ship for GOM. Any one with half a brain will figure this intention out. But that doesn't change the fact that it isn't fair to everyone else in the competition, that had to go through brutal code B, and now have to go through rounds of brutal Code A (chance of facing Code S players like Losira), just to get to the Ups and Downs. All just cuz Delmuslim had a good open bracket run at an MLG? Errr pretty much like 90% of the Koreans that starts in the open bracket either made it to the group stage or had at least a decent run, and there are alot of foreigners that went farther than Delmuslim.
I mean so what if they go there for Code A for one round then lose and have to fly back? AFAIK, everything is paid for them. They get valuable experience, and might even have a chance to interact with some Korean players (like Thorzain training in Slayers house), or how much Fenix improved just from that. They already were given a bye towards the brutal Code B, it's completely their fault if they can't beat a first round code A'er multiple times.
Look at it this way, if foreigners were placed directly into the GSL FINALS, I can use your exact argument to explain it: "it increases their chance of foreigners winning the finals, and at least guarantee a Code S spot next season, therefore it will please the foreigners and increase GOMTV's viewer ship". See the problem with this explanation? It is a valid explanation, but not a justified explanation.
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It doesnt make sence at all that Idra and demuslim is in the up and down isnt that really unfair for the korean players that have worked the way all the way upto code S from code B and A
They should have got a code a spot like Sase and Naniwa only fair. This stinks abit I must admit
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On November 02 2011 06:55 HappyChris wrote:
It doesnt make sence at all that Idra and demuslim is in the up and down isnt that really unfair for the korean players that have worked the way all the way upto code S from code B and A
They should have got a code a spot like Sase and Naniwa only fair. This stinks abit I must admit
Read above, there's a very good reason why they're in the Up/Downs
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Wow...is it me, or is code A filled with protoss?
I see green green everywhere!
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On November 02 2011 07:22 tabbott26 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 06:55 HappyChris wrote:
It doesnt make sence at all that Idra and demuslim is in the up and down isnt that really unfair for the korean players that have worked the way all the way upto code S from code B and A
They should have got a code a spot like Sase and Naniwa only fair. This stinks abit I must admit Read above, there's a very good reason why they're in the Up/Downs
What I don't understand is:
1) On what grounds demuslim will be seeded in the first place. Seems like a complete charity invite. The guy is a great terran in EU/NA terms, but charity invites aren't the way to go if you ask me.
2) On what grounds Sase/Nani are seeded into code A but Idra will get seeded into up/downs. Idra should be seeded just like any other MLG invite. Doesn't seems like equal treatment.
I love seeing more foreigners in the GSL, but well, equal treatment of (foreign) players seems kind of important to protect the integrity of a league. None of those things are explained in the OP.
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On October 28 2011 10:04 Starcraft2Radio wrote:
Man, Tassadar is going to get rolled. Select's TvP is really good.
JYP vs Sase.. wow. That will be a crazy match.
Squirtle is back in!
Wow, Sage vs Forgg.
Is it weird that I've been more excited for Code A the past 2 seasons than I have been for Code S?
I know exactly how you feel. Depending on how it goes, the up and down matches could be even more exciting if it includes idra and demuslim. Seems like the GSL might get considerably more exciting for me. It probably helps that a multitude of the skilled less-known koreans have had a year to build a story about themselves.
In regards to getting invited directly to up and down matches, I think it's a brilliant move from GOM. Either way, the players are guaranteed at least Code A. If the player is exceptionally skilled, they don't have to spend a month in code A before getting to code S and making money. This really solves the foreigner problem of having to spend months in korea without knowing if it's worth it.
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On November 02 2011 06:22 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 23:18 NKsc2 wrote:
Wait, what? >_> Why did Idra and Demuslim get free up&down spots? It doesn't make any sense to me. Did TeamEG pay gomtv for Idra/Demuslim to get seeded? I can't find any other reason. Been searching everywhere. Please enlighten me. Idra won IEM China and got 4th at the last MLG. He also never really lost his Code S spot, so arguing against this one is really pointless. Demuslim had a terrifying run through the open bracket into the championship bracket of MLG... Columbus? Regardless, it was probably one of the most impressive feats of the tournament. So, in the old GSL, these two definitely would've been invited to Code A. Read the post above regarding why that isn't a good deal for GOM.
So what? Naniwa got further than IdrA in every MLG he entered. He still got a code A spot no exception. Demuslim got thru the open losers bracket in 1 mlg yea. He still did not get top4 foreigners at any MLG which the deal was in order to get a code A spot! And who cares if they're both good? So are naniwa/sase. And these invites are so random and BOTH are from TeamEG. I can't help but feel like there's something going on between EG and gomTV... Suddenly out of nowhere demuslim and gets an invitation to the up/down matches without getting top 8 in (the new 48 player) code A. If anything, Sase deserves it. He's practicing soo hard in korea right now and he beat bomber in mlg (so did idra, but idra did it as zerg, sase did it as protoss which is more impressive). Not that I care THAT much, I'm just a big fan of SaSe/Naniwa and not a very big fan of unfairness and bribery (if that is what happened, if not, i am sorry). But either way, if EG pays gomtv for it, then thats money for esports and that's fine I guess...
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On November 02 2011 07:39 NKsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 06:22 Dexington wrote:On November 01 2011 23:18 NKsc2 wrote:
Wait, what? >_> Why did Idra and Demuslim get free up&down spots? It doesn't make any sense to me. Did TeamEG pay gomtv for Idra/Demuslim to get seeded? I can't find any other reason. Been searching everywhere. Please enlighten me. Idra won IEM China and got 4th at the last MLG. He also never really lost his Code S spot, so arguing against this one is really pointless. Demuslim had a terrifying run through the open bracket into the championship bracket of MLG... Columbus? Regardless, it was probably one of the most impressive feats of the tournament. So, in the old GSL, these two definitely would've been invited to Code A. Read the post above regarding why that isn't a good deal for GOM. So what? Naniwa got further than IdrA in every MLG he entered. He still got a code A spot no exception. Demuslim got thru the open losers bracket in 1 mlg yea. He still did not get top4 foreigners at any MLG which the deal was in order to get a code A spot! And who cares if they're both good? So are naniwa/sase. And these invites are so random and BOTH are from TeamEG. I can't help but feel like there's something going on between EG and gomTV... Suddenly out of nowhere demuslim and gets an invitation to the up/down matches without getting top 8 in (the new 48 player) code A. If anything, Sase deserves it. He's practicing soo hard in korea right now and he beat bomber in mlg (so did idra, but idra did it as zerg, sase did it as protoss which is more impressive). Not that I care THAT much, I'm just a big fan of SaSe/Naniwa and not a very big fan of unfairness and bribery (if that is what happened, if not, i am sorry). But either way, if EG pays gomtv for it, then thats money for esports and that's fine I guess...
Hey mate, can you read?
 NaNiwa and SaSe were seeded as part of the MLG/GSL exchange program.  IdrA and  DeMusliM will be seeded directly into the Up/Down matches for next season (probably GSL January as I don't think they'll play over Christmas & New Year). Both IdrA and DeMusliM are placed due to the league exchange program.
Does that answer your question instead of throwing wild accusations at GOM & EG? Please learn to read next time.
EDIT: If you notice, they(IdrA and DeMu) weren't specifically stated that they came from the MLG/GSL league exchange. It just says league exchange.
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On November 02 2011 07:50 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 07:39 NKsc2 wrote:On November 02 2011 06:22 Dexington wrote:On November 01 2011 23:18 NKsc2 wrote:
Wait, what? >_> Why did Idra and Demuslim get free up&down spots? It doesn't make any sense to me. Did TeamEG pay gomtv for Idra/Demuslim to get seeded? I can't find any other reason. Been searching everywhere. Please enlighten me. Idra won IEM China and got 4th at the last MLG. He also never really lost his Code S spot, so arguing against this one is really pointless. Demuslim had a terrifying run through the open bracket into the championship bracket of MLG... Columbus? Regardless, it was probably one of the most impressive feats of the tournament. So, in the old GSL, these two definitely would've been invited to Code A. Read the post above regarding why that isn't a good deal for GOM. So what? Naniwa got further than IdrA in every MLG he entered. He still got a code A spot no exception. Demuslim got thru the open losers bracket in 1 mlg yea. He still did not get top4 foreigners at any MLG which the deal was in order to get a code A spot! And who cares if they're both good? So are naniwa/sase. And these invites are so random and BOTH are from TeamEG. I can't help but feel like there's something going on between EG and gomTV... Suddenly out of nowhere demuslim and gets an invitation to the up/down matches without getting top 8 in (the new 48 player) code A. If anything, Sase deserves it. He's practicing soo hard in korea right now and he beat bomber in mlg (so did idra, but idra did it as zerg, sase did it as protoss which is more impressive). Not that I care THAT much, I'm just a big fan of SaSe/Naniwa and not a very big fan of unfairness and bribery (if that is what happened, if not, i am sorry). But either way, if EG pays gomtv for it, then thats money for esports and that's fine I guess... Hey mate, can you read? Show nested quote +NaNiwa and SaSe were seeded as part of the MLG/GSL exchange program. IdrA and DeMusliM will be seeded directly into the Up/Down matches for next season (probably GSL January as I don't think they'll play over Christmas & New Year). Both IdrA and DeMusliM are placed due to the league exchange program. Does that answer your question instead of throwing wild accusations at GOM & EG? Please learn to read next time. EDIT: If you notice, they(IdrA and DeMu) weren't specifically stated that they came from the MLG/GSL league exchange. It just says league exchange.
Can you read?
There is only one official league exchange program, which is the GSL-MLG exchange. Demuslim hasn't qualified high enough in any of them to warrant an up/down slot, so no, it does not answer the question. Sase gained his GSL code A slot in the same MLG that Idra did, so he should get the same treatment as Sase. Again, question is not answered.
Maybe inhouse EG tournaments count as part of league exchange now, in which case I'll be expecting incontrol, axslav and strifecro in the next up/down matches. We all know they're good enough, so let's just give them a spot, which is exactly what this feels like. Charity invites ftl.
I don't see how you can claim this is fine from a tournament integrity point of view. I get the rationale, it's just not fair.
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EPT
