EPTMoreover, I think people are more impressed with Stephano's play in itself, not necessarily his results. His injecting and game sense is clearly at the highest level, and he made all of his opponents look significantly inferior. One can argue that winning and losing is all that matters, but the quality of wins and losses must be judged to assess a player abstractly. He dominated his opponents in a way that only a top Code S player would be able to do. Lastly, if it is true that he has only been practicing for around 3 hours of ladder a day, he would have to possess an absurd amount of natural talent to play the way he has been playing.
Korean Netizen Reactions to the IPL Finals Spoiler - Page 10
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j0ker
275 Posts
Moreover, I think people are more impressed with Stephano's play in itself, not necessarily his results. His injecting and game sense is clearly at the highest level, and he made all of his opponents look significantly inferior. One can argue that winning and losing is all that matters, but the quality of wins and losses must be judged to assess a player abstractly. He dominated his opponents in a way that only a top Code S player would be able to do. Lastly, if it is true that he has only been practicing for around 3 hours of ladder a day, he would have to possess an absurd amount of natural talent to play the way he has been playing. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
However before IPL3, he trained his ZvZ with Sheth and Nerchio, and his cheese defense with MorroW among other partner. I believe he train with MaNa also. Aside from that there are replay reviewing and thinking about BO. | ||
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LordYama
United States370 Posts
On October 11 2011 08:08 j0ker wrote: People need to stop discrediting tournament results because of perceived easy brackets. Stephano may have had a favorable draw, but it was still a 32 player tournament with many strong Koreans and a majority of the strong foreigners. I agree that a win in the finals over MMA would have been more validating, but after watching MMA(along with Ryung and Boxer) getting utterly stomped by aggressive roach play, I can't even say he would have been the favorite over Stephano. Furthermore, everyone's "god", Nestea, had an extremely soft bracket in his last GSL run along with a pretty soft one in the run before that. His other win was in a cheese filled season 2. He rarely plays team league and does poorly when he does. His non-GSL showings have been quite mediocre as well. I'm not even trying to discredit Nestea here, but don't cherrypick 1 guys results and blindly worship another guy without doing the same. Moreover, I think people are more impressed with Stephano's play in itself, not necessarily his results. His injecting and game sense is clearly at the highest level, and he made all of his opponents look significantly inferior. One can argue that winning and losing is all that matters, but the quality of wins and losses must be judged to assess a player abstractly. He dominated his opponents in a way that only a top Code S player would be able to do. +100 for this post. First of all, a player can only beat the players put before them. So even if Nestea didn't have to play MMA to win his last GSL, he beat the players he faced and made it through to the title, which he has done 3 times now, which MMA and Bomber have not done once despite all their strength at TvZ. That is something. In pro sports leagues, the ability of teams to consistently beat the teams they are supposed to beat is as important if not more so than the ability to win against brutally hard opponents, if they are to make it through leagues and playoffs to become champions. Secondly, I also tell people, watch Stephano's actual games. It's not just the wins against top opponents (yes I would include MKP and MMA even if it were online, not too many can beat them in ANY setting), it's how he plays and how he wins. That's what impressed me so watching the VODs from IPL S3 qualifiers, and why even though I'm amazed by Stephano's performance yesterday, I'm not completely surprised because of what I'd seen in his games. The ZvZ games were in particular amazing because he was pretty much in complete control of all those, after opening different ways, early expand, gas/pool first, delay opponent hatch etc. He secured some advantage out of every opener and magnified that into a huge advantage with a brilliant hold after expanding, or a crushing engagement, etc. After watching him completely control Violet like a puppet on a string I told my friend "Lucky is good and anything could happen, but don't be surprised if Stephano completely dominates Lucky after how I saw him play against Violet." You could see in Lucky's facial expression after game one the look of someone who is feeling the pressure not just because they lost, but because they recognize the player they face is just flat out better and there is pretty much no way short of a miracle that they are going to win. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
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John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
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minhbq299
United Kingdom566 Posts
European Zerg are strong. Dimaga, Nerchio, Stephano.... Idra come closes too | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
On October 11 2011 10:08 Milkis wrote: I really need to update that about me section. I'm fine with people using it on TL or Reddit (as long as they link). I posted this somewhere in this thread, but I think it went mostly ignored: Can you provide netizen reactions to the Stephano vs. Kiwikaki game 2? I'm really interested in this specifically. Thanks. | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
-Teamliquid Netizens | ||
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
Got this reaction so many times during his run. Especially the last game "oh he's dead too many roaches at the natural... *1 minute later* WTF?" | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
LOL really? anyways kimchi is a really stereotypical thing for koreans to eat, it's a kind of common food in korea that has so many different versions to it where some might barely resemble each other Anyways, it's like a racist/stereotypical joke to call koreans kimchi men It's like how japanese have their ramen, and americans have their burgers stephano to GSL please bonjwa gogo before your 1 year is up! it will be the story of the decade On October 11 2011 08:08 j0ker wrote: People need to stop discrediting tournament results because of perceived easy brackets. Stephano may have had a favorable draw, but it was still a 32 player tournament with many strong Koreans and a majority of the strong foreigners. I agree that a win in the finals over MMA would have been more validating, but after watching MMA(along with Ryung and Boxer) getting utterly stomped by aggressive roach play, I can't even say he would have been the favorite over Stephano. Furthermore, everyone's "god", Nestea, had an extremely soft bracket in his last GSL run along with a pretty soft one in the run before that. His other win was in a cheese filled season 2. He rarely plays team league and does poorly when he does. His non-GSL showings have been quite mediocre as well. I'm not even trying to discredit Nestea here, but don't cherrypick 1 guys results and blindly worship another guy without doing the same. Moreover, I think people are more impressed with Stephano's play in itself, not necessarily his results. His injecting and game sense is clearly at the highest level, and he made all of his opponents look significantly inferior. One can argue that winning and losing is all that matters, but the quality of wins and losses must be judged to assess a player abstractly. He dominated his opponents in a way that only a top Code S player would be able to do. Lastly, if it is true that he has only been practicing for around 3 hours of ladder a day, he would have to possess an absurd amount of natural talent to play the way he has been playing. Very, very well said. Not much to add or emphasis on what you said xD. I totally agree on that, though "skill" doesn't matter since a player is only able to be judged concretely (and even so it is only a estimation of strength) by performance results, "skill" can be used to, as you say it, abstractly assess a player and what his future performances may be like. Holy fucking shit 3 hours only? Well some people are just born and grow up better at some things than ever, I guess starcraft is like perfect to him, and/or he is literally a genius. Too bad it's only 1 year, I hope he stays in longer (if he keeps this up I think he may delay university, but then again may be starcraft isn't his dream in life, maybe the only reason, as he says, for his year dedication to progaming is so that all the competitive gaming he has been doing since 14, and more specifically the 10 months he's been playing SC2, can pay off monetarily). Because really he may be SC2's first bonjwa, and the first foreign bonjwa at that. | ||
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John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On October 11 2011 07:34 hmunkey wrote: Ehh, he's pretty bad as far as Koreans go. He was from a time early on in GSL when everyone (especially terrans) cheesed and all-inned every game. Since then he went into the military and hasn't changed his playstyle much. I have yet to see him win a game that wasn't either a full all-in, cheese, or some form of exact timing attack. He doesn't have the ability to adapt and play well on the same level as say MVP, MMA, MKP, or any number of good Korean terrans. You should have watched IPL this weekend then. It's true he's not MMA, MVP or MKP but that doesn't makes him bad. He's constantly proven over the year that he go toe to toe with both Code A and S players with some respectable tournament results to show for it. | ||
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Derity
Germany2952 Posts
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
On October 11 2011 04:06 CarelessPride wrote: stephanio beat kiwikaki, violet, inori, thestc and lucky... kiwikaki - he's not the best even by NA standards violet- someone who WAS in code S now sucks i hate the fact they keep calling him code S player inori - took out 2 great players who i think wouldve beat stephanio in pvp thestc - the guy who already said hes bad at tvz lucky- the guy who cheesed his way through terrans and played a horrible zvz not to take aanything away but if he faced unknown players who were bad at zerg match up if he played ryung/MMA/mc/puma then hes proven something until then i think i proved he had it easy At first i thought you was sarcastic... then i wonder how can people be as dumb/blind/retard select the adjective that suits you the most or take the three if you're honnest with yourself... User was warned for this post | ||
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Caspas
Germany157 Posts
On October 11 2011 04:06 CarelessPride wrote: stephanio beat kiwikaki, violet, inori, thestc and lucky... kiwikaki - he's not the best even by NA standards violet- someone who WAS in code S now sucks i hate the fact they keep calling him code S player inori - took out 2 great players who i think wouldve beat stephanio in pvp thestc - the guy who already said hes bad at tvz lucky- the guy who cheesed his way through terrans and played a horrible zvz not to take aanything away but if he faced unknown players who were bad at zerg match up if he played ryung/MMA/mc/puma then hes proven something until then i think i proved he had it easy Theres one point i would agree with: either of those P's MC and HuK would beat Stephano if he plays offrace (inori would as well imo). Everything else seems to me like construction to prove something that isn't there. Sounds like religious thesis to me. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
I can't blame people who like to relax while watching games, but at least have the sense to not comment on intricacies of the game. Giving your opinion on the strength of a player without taking the time to analyze what you're talking about is just silly. If you're going to relax while you watch, that's cool as long as you don't try to act like you know what you're talking about. | ||
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Sighstorm
Netherlands116 Posts
What i'd really like to know is if Kiwikaki created a strategy specificly to beat Stephano. I got the impression it was. And dApollo(?) said they've met before in a previous event. Kiwi's Mothership play in game 2 on Shakuras in combination with blink & cliff walking was a perfect way to negate Stephano's spinecrawler wall (and i haven't seen other Zergs make wall with the same extremely high amount of Spines). It doesn't make Stephano's achievement more (or less) awesome, but i really want to know. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
Not really... There was a question in the audience, a guy asked which race they though was the strongest. Stephano answered that all players should feel their own race is the strongest - otherwise they wouldn't play it. So when MC didn't answer the question Stephano said "protoss of course" (meaning that MC should think that protoss is the strongest race). edit: lol many people had already responded to this... | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
i always find it funny when koreans are being koreans  | ||
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