ForGG joins oGs - Page 44

On October 01 2011 00:53 Tweleve wrote:
It might be one more Terran but hopefully he can bring something to the table that the other Terrans don't

On October 01 2011 03:53 Diamond wrote:
He just signed up for the next Korean Weekly! 0_O

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225519&currentpage=127#2525

On October 01 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:

Wait like the Korean weekly that is going to be played in 6 hours??? Or the one after that?

On October 01 2011 03:24 Spinoza wrote:But there is practical qualitative supporting evidence for this assumption too: all the GSL champions have had career's in BW previously, there are no GSL champions entirely absent a BW career, however limited it might seem after the fact.

On October 01 2011 04:16 Mise wrote:

This is false. Polt was a Warcraft 3 player and not even a notable one at that.

On October 01 2011 03:24 Spinoza wrote:
So the highest ranked BW pro to switch to sc2 to date is now confirmed as fOrGG. This could be either a switch of epic proportions or an equally epic fail. And how would we know? Given his stature, anything less than one or several major tournament titles is a disappointment, right?

fOrGG, like Boxer, NaDa and July, has gone through the most competitive e-sport ever - Broodwar - to win a major title, albeit in his case only once. My personal guess is the chemistry in KT Rolster did him in. This kid is however only 20yrs old or so, has one Major title to his resume (he killed Kal, Flash and Jaedong to get it) and played a lot of BW games against the very very best up until his retirement.

If you think the Woongjin captain would feild MVP against fOrGG in a hypothetical series at that time when both were active, MVP would likely lose. A hypothetical universe has a foggy shape by its very nature, but is still interesting because all options can be explored without impunity: how would Brazilian Pele match up with Messi of Argentina say, or Superman vs Batman.

The only telemetry we have to work with are the actual accomplishments of players. And this telemetry says that fOrGG is a genuinely more accomplished player in BW than MVP ever was irrespective of MVPs accomplishments in SC2. Conversely, MVP is the norm of accomplishment in SC2 while fOrGG has no norm at all in SC2 (not counting ladder). Well, are all accomplishments if existing, equal then? No, they are not. Recent accomplishments take precedence over distant ones.

The similarity assumption underlies the next step: it is that qualities overlap such that "Similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning". In other words that if your "reasoning, problem solving and learning" can lead you to win Arena MSL in 2008, beating on the way as it were, Kal (protoss), Flash (terran) and Jaedong (Zerg), in that order, at the same time they could all be argued as the best of their respective races, then you should be regarded as a real contender in SC2 too. Why? Because of the similarity assumption, which is, I grant, an abstraction, but real much in the same way that shadows are real.

But there is practical qualitative supporting evidence for this assumption too: all the GSL champions have had career's in BW previously, there are no GSL champions entirely absent a BW career, however limited it might seem after the fact. All the former BW burnouts past their prime, NaDa, July and Boxer are still making waves as solid A or S class players. There is clearly a shadow in play here. But also that recent accomplishments are more important than distant ones.

However much I love SC2, the quantitative and qualitative data suggest there is a significant skill deficit versus top BW players assuming the similarity assumption ( I am repeating myself because this is important god damn it).

fOrGG will be a datapoint to further our understanding of this complex issue.

I highly doubt fOrGGs games will be boring though, given his BW record. GG HF GL

On October 01 2011 05:18 RvB wrote:


forgg isn't nearly as good as he was in his league run. By stating it like you are it looks like he could beat jaedong and flash consistently while he really wasn't close to that.