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On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think.
The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo).
The wrecking ball will not be stopped.
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Didn't the same sort of thing happen to HuK when he was in Europe for dreamhack/HSC (think account sharing with TLO, and blizz warning)? I mean, sure this is exciting to see someone new and up-coming in the scene go on a rip like this, and there are some good players out there - nerchio is a BEAST, mana, goody, lalush, etc. Are all right behind him on that ranking... but where does this put him against the rest of the world (Korea, duh)?
I mean, HuK was doing this three months ago, and while he's very good, he's still not a "stand out" player over in korea.
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On September 27 2011 01:04 phyre112 wrote:
I mean, HuK was doing this three months ago, and while he's very good, he's still not a "stand out" player over in korea.
Apparently being competitive in a tournament which only includes the top 32 players in Korea is not stand out -_-
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On September 27 2011 01:10 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:04 phyre112 wrote:
I mean, HuK was doing this three months ago, and while he's very good, he's still not a "stand out" player over in korea. Apparently being competitive in a tournament which only includes the top 32 players in Korea is not stand out -_-
yeah code s is like for silver league only? am i right?
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On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner. Yes, he has no major lan victory yet but well... Namaa got one and is not considered an absolute top foreigner, Idra got good results and is no longer an absolute top foreigner (at least it does not seem like it). Thorzaine hasn't won a single offline event expect the TSL Finals wich were one match against Naniwa and is considered a top foreigner by about everyone. Sorry.. Results matter but they just aren't everything. Btw: He has won some lans in France, he was 3d at Assembly.. Thats hardly "0" Lan results... Just because you have not visited a totally overrated MLG and have not won one of the 2 Dreamhacks EVER FUCKING HELD and were not invited to one of the tons of invitationals, does not mean that you aren't a top player  . I would rather search the blame on the tons of invitationals that are just that, invitationals.
You're right, having 10 top level Koreans, and most of Europe's top players come over and compete in an event doesn't mean it's legit.
Pro-tip, if it isn't held in Korea or my country of origin, then it doesn't count as a major tournament.
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Holy shit are the haters for real? The kid 2-0ed Anypro and Puzzle and won 2-1 vs Revival and MMA.
He lost 2-1 to aLive.
He won vs numerous top european players, like socke etc.
FFS how can you say he doesnt play well?!
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On September 27 2011 01:13 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Holy shit are the haters for real? The kid 2-0ed Anypro and Puzzle and won 2-1 vs Revival and MMA.
He lost 2-1 to aLive.
He won vs numerous top european players, like socke etc.
FFS how can you say he doesnt play well?!
This kind of happens everytime it seems vs korean pros because they have no idea what these unknown players play-style is like and can't prepare for them. It happened alot in the world-series of korea vs the world. Just didn't know what to expect or just don't prepare.
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On September 27 2011 01:15 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:13 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Holy shit are the haters for real? The kid 2-0ed Anypro and Puzzle and won 2-1 vs Revival and MMA.
He lost 2-1 to aLive.
He won vs numerous top european players, like socke etc.
FFS how can you say he doesnt play well?! This kind of happens everytime it seems vs korean pros because they have no idea what these unknown players play-style is like and can't prepare for them. It happened alot in the world-series of korea vs the world. Just didn't know what to expect or just don't prepare.
Everytime ? In ONE tournament/qualifier ? (or 2 in that case), ok, show me ONE non korean player that went 4-1 in series vs koreans in 2 events.
On September 27 2011 01:13 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner. Yes, he has no major lan victory yet but well... Namaa got one and is not considered an absolute top foreigner, Idra got good results and is no longer an absolute top foreigner (at least it does not seem like it). Thorzaine hasn't won a single offline event expect the TSL Finals wich were one match against Naniwa and is considered a top foreigner by about everyone. Sorry.. Results matter but they just aren't everything. Btw: He has won some lans in France, he was 3d at Assembly.. Thats hardly "0" Lan results... Just because you have not visited a totally overrated MLG and have not won one of the 2 Dreamhacks EVER FUCKING HELD and were not invited to one of the tons of invitationals, does not mean that you aren't a top player . I would rather search the blame on the tons of invitationals that are just that, invitationals. You're right, having 10 top level Koreans, and most of Europe's top players come over and compete in an event doesn't mean it's legit. Pro-tip, if it isn't held in Korea or my country of origin, then it doesn't count as a major tournament.
Yes, there are many top level koreans, however no, there are not "most" of europe's top players, barely a few each event.
Raleigh had Naniwa, SjoW, Haypro, TLO and Ret in pool play, and Demuslim, Jinro and Grubby in Open Bracket. Of these I would only consider Naniwa Ret and Demuslim when he's in shape as *top* players.
There were LESS european good players than koreans lol.
Don't mind me, it's still a fucking legit event. But don't judge European players on ONLY MLG and GSL please.
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On September 27 2011 01:13 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner. Yes, he has no major lan victory yet but well... Namaa got one and is not considered an absolute top foreigner, Idra got good results and is no longer an absolute top foreigner (at least it does not seem like it). Thorzaine hasn't won a single offline event expect the TSL Finals wich were one match against Naniwa and is considered a top foreigner by about everyone. Sorry.. Results matter but they just aren't everything. Btw: He has won some lans in France, he was 3d at Assembly.. Thats hardly "0" Lan results... Just because you have not visited a totally overrated MLG and have not won one of the 2 Dreamhacks EVER FUCKING HELD and were not invited to one of the tons of invitationals, does not mean that you aren't a top player . I would rather search the blame on the tons of invitationals that are just that, invitationals. You're right, having 10 top level Koreans, and most of Europe's top players come over and compete in an event doesn't mean it's legit. Pro-tip, if it isn't held in Korea or my country of origin, then it doesn't count as a major tournament.
"Most of Europe's top players" is a very big stretch. Stephano, Dimaga, Nerchio, Mana, Morrow, Thorzain, Hasuobs and Whitera are the Europeans that are doing very well currently. Yet almost none of them have attended an MLG.
MLG for Europeans is not very significant unless you have a pool place already. So none of their teams or sponsors deem it worthy to attend a tournament where the prize is almost the same expense as going there.
Next year there should be a bigger European impact if the prize pool is raised + the horrible pool system revamped. As for now, it's basically US vs Korea with a few lucky Europeans thrown in.
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On September 27 2011 01:13 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner. Yes, he has no major lan victory yet but well... Namaa got one and is not considered an absolute top foreigner, Idra got good results and is no longer an absolute top foreigner (at least it does not seem like it). Thorzaine hasn't won a single offline event expect the TSL Finals wich were one match against Naniwa and is considered a top foreigner by about everyone. Sorry.. Results matter but they just aren't everything. Btw: He has won some lans in France, he was 3d at Assembly.. Thats hardly "0" Lan results... Just because you have not visited a totally overrated MLG and have not won one of the 2 Dreamhacks EVER FUCKING HELD and were not invited to one of the tons of invitationals, does not mean that you aren't a top player . I would rather search the blame on the tons of invitationals that are just that, invitationals. You're right, having 10 top level Koreans, and most of Europe's top players come over and compete in an event doesn't mean it's legit. Pro-tip, if it isn't held in Korea or my country of origin, then it doesn't count as a major tournament.
Tell me who because i dont see... beside demu naniwa and ret.
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On September 27 2011 01:02 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think. The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo). The wrecking ball will not be stopped.
Lots of people thought the same thing about Kas. He still has yet to deliver.
I wouldn't bet anything on stephano until he starts showing LAN results.
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On September 27 2011 01:12 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 27 2011 01:04 phyre112 wrote:
I mean, HuK was doing this three months ago, and while he's very good, he's still not a "stand out" player over in korea. Apparently being competitive in a tournament which only includes the top 32 players in Korea is not stand out -_- yeah code s is like for silver league only? am i right?
the way how you do in Code S is what counts. ofc, he qualified and played rly well. But face the facts: the players he won are not rly topplayers. still, he does very well and is obviously a top 3 foreigner - by results AND real skill.
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On September 27 2011 01:23 Resilient wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:13 Sm3agol wrote:On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner. Yes, he has no major lan victory yet but well... Namaa got one and is not considered an absolute top foreigner, Idra got good results and is no longer an absolute top foreigner (at least it does not seem like it). Thorzaine hasn't won a single offline event expect the TSL Finals wich were one match against Naniwa and is considered a top foreigner by about everyone. Sorry.. Results matter but they just aren't everything. Btw: He has won some lans in France, he was 3d at Assembly.. Thats hardly "0" Lan results... Just because you have not visited a totally overrated MLG and have not won one of the 2 Dreamhacks EVER FUCKING HELD and were not invited to one of the tons of invitationals, does not mean that you aren't a top player . I would rather search the blame on the tons of invitationals that are just that, invitationals. You're right, having 10 top level Koreans, and most of Europe's top players come over and compete in an event doesn't mean it's legit. Pro-tip, if it isn't held in Korea or my country of origin, then it doesn't count as a major tournament. "Most of Europe's top players" is a very big stretch. Stephano, Dimaga, Nerchio, Mana, Morrow, Thorzain, Hasuobs and Whitera are the Europeans that are doing very well currently. Yet almost none of them have attended an MLG. MLG for Europeans is not very significant unless you have a pool place already. So none of their teams or sponsors deem it worthy to attend a tournament where the prize is almost the same expense as going there. Next year there should be a bigger European impact if the prize pool is raised + the horrible pool system revamped. As for now, it's basically US vs Korea with a few lucky Europeans thrown in.
good news for you.
Stephano, HasuObs, Demuslim, White-ra will be attending in orlando, although all @ open bracket obviously, because MLG is so lovely.
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Stephanos been underrated for such a long time. Hope he keeps up the form.
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On September 27 2011 01:27 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:02 Bobster wrote:On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think. The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo). The wrecking ball will not be stopped. Lots of people thought the same thing about Kas. He still has yet to deliver. I wouldn't bet anything on stephano until he starts showing LAN results.
He already did.. HSC3 or assembly.
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On September 27 2011 01:33 OzVelas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:27 Tachion wrote:On September 27 2011 01:02 Bobster wrote:On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think. The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo). The wrecking ball will not be stopped. Lots of people thought the same thing about Kas. He still has yet to deliver. I wouldn't bet anything on stephano until he starts showing LAN results. He already did.. HSC3 or assembly.
one sixth and one third place? in what were pretty much euro only tournaments? That doesn't support the attention he's getting.
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On September 27 2011 01:33 OzVelas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:27 Tachion wrote:On September 27 2011 01:02 Bobster wrote:On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think. The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo). The wrecking ball will not be stopped. Lots of people thought the same thing about Kas. He still has yet to deliver. I wouldn't bet anything on stephano until he starts showing LAN results. He already did.. HSC3 or assembly.
We'll see how he does at IPL. Until then he's just another good foreigner to me, nothing special.
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On September 27 2011 01:39 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 01:33 OzVelas wrote:On September 27 2011 01:27 Tachion wrote:On September 27 2011 01:02 Bobster wrote:On September 27 2011 00:32 Mungosh wrote:
The TL hype-machine never ceases to amaze me. His ladder run is great, no doubt. But to even compare him to the top foreigners when he has zero (none whatsoever) LAN results is getting a bit ahead of yourselves I think. The ladder run is not the cause of many people's admiration (and high expectations) for Stephano - it's just his latest achievement (and one of his lesser ones, imo). The wrecking ball will not be stopped. Lots of people thought the same thing about Kas. He still has yet to deliver. I wouldn't bet anything on stephano until he starts showing LAN results. He already did.. HSC3 or assembly. one sixth and one third place? in what were pretty much euro only tournaments? That doesn't support the attention he's getting.
He won against huk sen bratok jinro and forgot the rest. Only lost to MC, Thorzain and Dimaga in close series 2-3.
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On September 27 2011 01:01 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:43 Velr wrote:
I see him play, i'm staggered. I call him an absolute top foreigner.
Yeah, MLG is overrated, regardless of all the top GSL players (MVP, Bomber, CoCa, ...) that are invited as well as the many other solid non-Korean players there (Slush, Naniwa, Huk, ....).
Look at MLG Raleigh.
Now take out the Koreans because they were basically all in top places anyway.
What is left is a rather medicore lineup that is worse than Assembly/Dreamhack/IEM... Heck, some monthly finals of the "laughed at" weekly cups feature better lineups...
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On September 27 2011 01:39 Tachion wrote:
one sixth and one third place? in what were pretty much euro only tournaments? That doesn't support the attention he's getting.
Are you undermining Euro (Foreign) only tournaments? Does every tournament have to have Koreans? We're talking about top foreigners here.
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EPT
