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Recent Pro Posts -- 9/16 edition

Forum Index > SC2 General
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zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 19:53:33
September 16 2011 16:06 GMT
#1
The Starcraft 2 forums are very busy places, which is fantastic. Unfortunately, this also means that some of the wisest contributions from the most experienced posters can often get buried and ignored.

I've often found myself digging through threads trying to see if Jinro, djWheat, or TT1 had something to say. I wished there were a more convenient way of seeing what the truly elite members of our community have been saying. So, I thought I would offer this contribution.

I can't claim to have found everything that every pro has been saying, and if you see something they've posted recently, feel free to PM me or post it in this thread and I'll try to add it to the OP... hopefully we can avoid a creepy-stalker-vibe, but we'll see.

Also, please note that this isn't for the purpose of arguing with pros or stirring up controversy. This whole idea comes from wanting to know what smarter people with better perspective have to say. I want to draw attention to their posts so we can give their opinions more respect, not less.

EDIT: Added Morrow's thoughts on 1.4

Morrow:
+ Show Spoiler +

On the neural nerf (against massive, not the range nerf):
On September 15 2011 23:06 MorroW wrote:
the patch notes are good. blizzard makes the game better designed.

infestor had too many uses and now they will still be useful, but not as much as before, which is good

the only patch change that makes me wonder is the neural parasite change, it doesnt worry me too too much balance wise (i know theres ways to play the game without abusing infestors only) but to me it worries me because neural parasite is meant to take control over key units. this change doesnt actually make sense, they could nerf it in so many ways, as long as it can take control over key units which is its purpose then thats a better change than now imo

if this turns out imbalanced, if tosses suddnely start rolling everyone and everything (which i highly doubt) then blizzard is just going to revert something so its np :p


In-depth on the 1.4 changes:
On August 25 2011 20:10 MorroW wrote:
good patch they fixed alot of problems. hellions vs workers, 1/1/1 vs protoss, bunker rushes vs zerg.
sure all of these things were possible to stop but i think they might have been alittle too strong.

hunter seeker missle is good that it migtht get used before late late game but its still really fucking strong in late game (look at tvt lategame for example where both masses raven :D)

mothership change, hmmm still want them to remove this silly unit it doesnt belong in sc2

warp prism change, not much to say, it just survives longer which is good i think

ultralisk change, very good and needed imo. i think we will be seeing much more ultralisk play after this :p theres some funyn timings when u build ultras and they always seem to come a few seconds too late and u lose ur expand or 2. aswell when u die with ur 200food and rebuild ultras they always seem to come abit too late

fungal change is good aswell. they didnt nerf it too little or too much. hope this makes ling,muta bane more possible in zvz whichout beeing concidered coinflipping^^
its gonna go back more to its original plan, which was to lock down the units and make them die abit faster, and not anymore have a zerg army to tank and fungal to kill everything lol

overseer is more easily accesible when lair is done but contaminate is alot more strict and harder to get as u have to wait 50 more energy to afford it plus u cant make 2 contaminates with full energy.
so i think its good for the overseer overall as a scout but im afraid contaminate is even worse to use now

blink change, hmmm doesnt change too much except tosses has to refine their builds abit more on the chronoboosts i guess. not sure if i like this change but maybe it was needed since they nerfed fungal ~

so usually every patch makes me think of obvious new imbalances or problems. but this time around but think time it just amplifies some problems that already exist. for example mass raven in tvt or mech in tvp being too weak



Beastyqt:
+ Show Spoiler +

He sets a goal for his pro-gaming schedule:
On September 16 2011 22:13 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Hey TL

I was thinking last couple of days which direction im going in SC2 in general..My SC2 day starts with browsing forums, playing some team games to "warm up" watch some VODs which just delays my 1v1 practise and waste time on things I shouldnt be doing if I wanted to be top player.
I asked myself, where am I going with this? Im not practising seriously, I play maybe 5-10 1v1 games per day and there are days where I just play 2v2 whole day without playing any 1v1 games, but on the other hand im not casual gamer either because I spend a lot of time doing SC2 related stuff even if its not playing 1v1.

In the past I had doubts in myself being a good player, I started thinking about some players that stream on TL for 6+ hours a day which I beat very easy once we play, I practise (when I actually do play) with one of best players in EU, I have one "main" practise partner for each race which are Kas, Socke and MorroW.
While they put up really good results in tournaments.. I dont, last 6 tournaments I played, I got second place in 5 of them which was very disappointing for me. I always thought I have reached my limit in skill and that playing only few games a day will keep me on that level and never thought practising 8 hours a day and improving every day more and more, which should be around 32 games a day which is depending on day 3-6 times more games than I play now.

My decision between quiting SC2 and actually starting serious practise is very clear for me now. I will practise minimum 8 hours a day for two weeks in order to improve myself as a player.

Reason im writing all of this in here is because I need to set a goal before I do something in SC2 or IRL, after I set my goal I put 100% dedication to it. My previous goals were to re-claim #1 in GM (was #1 GM last season for some time) but that took me only couple of days to complete, second goal was making very high win streak on both ladder and tournaments which ended in 43 win streak = 13 wins in tournament and winning it and 30 ladder 1v1 win streak.
My current goal is to not "fail" at playing minimum 8 hours a day and keeping up with the schedule I gave to myself for two weeks and writing all of this here will keep on me right track so I dont quit because as soon I post this I will have obligation to finish what I started.
That being said, this will be my 3rd goal and once I complete it, it doesnt mean I will just quit or go back to not practising hard like before, but taking step by step is the way to go or should I say bit by bit (prime)

I got motivated to do this by Yellow and his Code A project, MVP as a player and Marineking due to me having..a lot of second places - last 6 months I have 27 second places in tournaments (some not listed in TLPD) because feeling of being good enough to reach finals but being bad enough at same time to not win whole thing is very very disappointing.

Anyway, enough talk Practise schedule will be next:

Minimum five days a week, as soon I get up in the morning I will work out, take a shower, eat and start my practise for that day.
Playing SC2 from:
- 14:00 - 17:00 CET
- 1 hour break to rest and do stuff at home
- 18:00 - 23:00 CET

All of this will be streamed every day unless something comes up IRL, but I will make sure to update if schedule changes.
I will update every day and put my win loss for the day and maybe even win loss vs each race for that day. If you have any questions feel free to ask here or on stream.

I hope other good players read this and try doing it themselfs. There are many talented players in SC2, but they are just lazy like me

Sorry for wall of text and thank you for reading it I hope you have fun watching if you do tune in and I promise you I will give my best.

Training will start on Monday, September 19th.

TLDR: 1) I am dissapointed in myself with my play and results 2) I want to improve and put time and effort into it 3) Will be streamed and will be updating results.

The Faceless Terran signing out!



Thorzain:
+ Show Spoiler +

Some positive support in the "Dedication" thread:
On September 16 2011 22:16 Thorzain wrote:
Good luck! If you stick to this schedule for an extended period of time, U B SCARY MAN!


A clarification in a thread about pro habits:
On September 12 2011 21:45 Thorzain wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, minigun didn't play any RTS prior to SC2. He was an FPS player.


From Stephano's fan club:
On September 12 2011 21:42 Thorzain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2011 21:33 hyuu wrote:
In this interview, Stephano said that after the final vs MMA he talks with him and MMA told him that he is known in Korea and MMA consider him as a TOP5 foreigner

ThorZain : did you talk about Stephano to SlayerS?


^^. Stephano had to play vs Ryung in a tournament and I helped them communicate.


ThorZain took the SkillCraft survey. Why haven't YOU?
On September 12 2011 17:05 Thorzain wrote:
Completed the survey. Excited about the results!



Jinro:

+ Show Spoiler +

After beating Fruitdealer, Jinro owns up to an indirect quote:
On September 12 2011 06:09 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2011 04:00 CryMeAReaper wrote:
Yaaaaay! This is the first of many steps in reclaiming ur glory Jinro! One TV win at a time )

Seriously though, it's great to see Jinro play some solid BallerCraft again. No offense, but hes been playing some kinda iffy games for a while now and its great a potential comeback being a reality. Didn't some TL player (or was it oGs?) say in an interview that Jinros problem was him being kinda lazy? If so, I hope this means he's got his motivation back, we all know what happens when the Gorilla terran is in shape!

It was probably my own interview that said that, I had 0 drive aside from after losing games for a few months (march-may or something? then traveled so much I couldnt practice that much even tho I wanted to).

From his fan club thread, adding some definition to the phrase "curse word":
On September 15 2011 23:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
"Fuck over" is only a curse in the ears of people too delicate to survive outside their protective bubbles -_-

On not accepting the Code A invite:
On September 16 2011 00:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I was given an invite, I decided I didnt want it because I was not happy with my play @ MLG. I recommended they give it to SaSe, upon consideration, they did.

He deserved it a lot more.

More on the invite, and the swearing during the GSL player picks:
On September 16 2011 06:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 05:04 Benjef wrote:
On September 16 2011 05:00 KSMB wrote:
Jinro: if you had performed well enough at MLG to get an invite to Code A based on it (like SjoW), would you have accepted it, or would you still have preferred to qualify through the regular qualifier?

Afaik he got offered and turned it down so sase got one.

Thats the same as qualifying so I would have accepted it. My invite was based on nothing so I turned it down... I accepted it before MLG because I felt I could do good, but I didnt so I didnt want to return to code A that way, even though the invite was really appreciated.

As for todays incident - it was not GOM's fault, they always have rehearsals and so on beforehand but they didnt know I was going to do Chris' picks and I wasnt able to get there until just before they started... So I had no idea about the rules, they had no idea they needed to tell me the rules.

It was just last minute misunderstandings.... I assumed it was fine to do what I did because the order went like this, as far as I observed:
- Interivew player 1
- Interview player of his choice
- Let player 1 respond to choosen player

In NASL LR thread, Jinro offers a perspective on Haypro:
On September 16 2011 17:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 14:10 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 16 2011 12:15 Fighter wrote:
"nice job brat" - Haypro

From anyone else I feel like that would be sarcastic, but I've never seen Haypro be sarcastic or BM. But then again, man... idk, MOST people would be a bit salty after that beginning, even if they knew it was their own fault lol

To my understanding, brat is Russian for brother (with bratok being a more affectionate form so I have been told).

LOL, Haypro is super sarcastic and has the sickest deadpan in history - you NEVER know when hes trolling.

He is good manner tho!

EDIT: @ The post being quoted.

Jinro gave a KR account to Naniwa, compliments his play:
On September 16 2011 15:02 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 10:15 Talionis wrote:
Oh, the Jedi Mind Trick guy on the ladder is Naniwa?

He was ranked #1 a while back, I was wondering who that was.
Awesome music too.

Hey, cant take credit for the taste in music, thats my account that I gave to naniwa ;D

But yeh hes beasting.

Stands up for Haypro, and Puma:
On September 16 2011 15:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 10:22 Redox wrote:
On September 16 2011 10:20 claash wrote:
i know im a bit late but the invitational list is funny.
no polish and german players.no stephano.no demuslim.
but sase and haypro...
O-KAY
so germany and poland arent able to to come to MLG because they have world war 3 ?
whats the reason?
did MLG ask the european clans but they dont want to send any players?

Yeah 6/8 are Swedish. :D

But the reason is that they only invited people that paticipated in MLGs. They could have invited TLO instead of Haypro though.

edit: Oh and they could have invited Socke, he was at several MLGs.
But he stopped attending them so I guess thats a reason for them to not invite him.


Pretty sure Haypro's MLG results this year have been better than TLOs.... Hes not done that badly at all.

Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 15:29 HinagikUx wrote:
On September 16 2011 11:55 AxionSteel wrote:
On September 16 2011 11:44 Xxavi wrote:
On September 16 2011 10:28 Bayyne wrote:
Puma v. MVP will hopefully be fucking epic.

To be honest, a lot of these "quality Terrans" have their worst match up TvT. It's not surprising given the current race balance that many of them are cruising vZ and vP.

MVP is a solid player all around, and he is one of the best, if not the best in TvT. This is, for me, a mark of a great player. Being good vP or even vZ doesn't mean much. So all these MMAs and Puma's of the world are a level or two below MVP, for me.

Puma is a huge underdog here.


Haha, very nice whine there. PuMa has a very good TvT, and it's not his worst matchup, nor is it the worst matchup of many Terrans in Korea.


whine? its not whine, its truth. Puma hasnt beaten a solid korean in TvT. He lost to nada recently, who would get crushed by mvp. and hes perfectly right about the TvZ and TvP matchups...all these "quality" terrans have literally no problem of beating them. look at how easily mvp took out nestea llol

He lost 3-4 to NaDa who many consider to have top 3 TvT in Korea....?


On the "you are now being revealed" mechanic:
On September 12 2011 03:13 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2011 00:21 ILoveCoffee wrote:
This has been known for quite some time. But I think it is working as intended since you are "revealed" and should be able to see all of your opponents buildings. It would be unfair since Protoss is the only race that can cloak their buildings.

Revealed is stupid in general.



Naruto:
+ Show Spoiler +

Offers a public thanks for being invited to the Grubby Pro Invitational:
On September 16 2011 23:35 mTw|NarutO wrote:
I want to thank you for the invite. I really appriciate it. Hopefully I can show some good games.

On a 5rax reaper build vs. Zerg:
On September 16 2011 21:08 mTw|NarutO wrote:
If you poke with your reapers, zerg will react with speedlings and the queens.. which easily get him enough time to get a roach warren. Roaches could be countered by mass reapers with speed in the early days which did result in the imbalance reaper build and the nerf of reaperspeed (factory needed)..

Now roaches have 4 range and the build will get shut down pretty easily I guess. :s

On SCReddit sending MKP to MLG Orlando:
On September 16 2011 20:55 mTw|NarutO wrote:
I don't mind people donating money to bring a player, but I think he could pay for himself easily :o!

Offers good luck to Lucifron against DRG, kind of:
On September 16 2011 19:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:
LucifroN is really really good, but DRG is a Terran destroyer. Can be good games, but after I saw DRG vs MMA on Meta... holy fuck. Good luck to LucifroN.

On the neural range nerf:
On September 16 2011 16:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:
GoOdy will be very happy :o!

In the Skillcraft thread: For science!
On September 14 2011 19:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Done. For science and to support Starcraft 2.



Liquid`Sheth:
+ Show Spoiler +

Admits to being BM in his fan club thread:
On September 12 2011 08:53 cottonbawlz wrote:
This guy is the most BM person irl and in wow ever.

On September 12 2011 08:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
That I am XD! <3 Cotton


His 24-hour stream marathon charity event he did with Destiny:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265062


TLO:
+ Show Spoiler +

On leaving the Sweden pro house:
On September 09 2011 08:21 Liquid`TLO wrote:
Hey guys!

A lot of you have been wondering why, eventhough I am back in Stockholm, I am not living in the Pro House anymore.
There are a several reasons, one of them is the lease ends at the end of September anyways and I wanted to stay in Sweden so I had to find a new place. The bigger reason however is that I require a more structured lifestyle than most other progamers. I have been travelling more than others and my health is still a problem from time to time. So far I think its a good decision for me I feel more rested and capable of playing more hours without injurying myself. It feels great to have a refuge where I can do whatever I want and most of all RELAX

Why stay in sweden though some might ask! Well I just love Stockholm to be honest, and its a good place for ESPORTS in general. I am young and I want to see more of the world. So why stay where you have been born?

cheers!



desrow:
+ Show Spoiler +

On sixjax dissolving:
On September 16 2011 15:02 desrow wrote:
wow free agents like dde and vibe will be huge can't wait to see who picks them up same for evoli great writer loved the article on sixjaxgaming

On beating chumps, and how he would hypothetically go on to beat them if he hadn't done it already:
On September 13 2011 07:23 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 18:36 ZorroW wrote:
hi desrow, we played a game yesturday as you may remember, and the thing i want to ask is when you did that 3 gate stalker attack, if i would have hold what follow up would you do ?

Depends how much I lost, I didn't cut/commit much gas so i can choose any transition

On his streaming schedule:
On September 16 2011 14:37 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 05:38 blowfish wrote:
Hey desrow are you still streaming? Have not seen you for quite some time

my bandwith is capped till sunday I recorded a bunch of games locally that will uploaded to youtube on sunday as well (since now I can post videos that are longer than 15min^^)

On name change on b.net:
On September 16 2011 13:56 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 13:47 Shebuha wrote:
Why do we have to ask Blizzard if we can pay them more money? X.X

I hope we get name change service!

me too i had to buy a new account couldnt stand my old tag anymore T_T
I waited a year thinking it would happen, not relying on blizz anymore

Compliments GosuKyhol's replay pack:
On September 16 2011 08:15 desrow wrote:
wow sick rep pack :D

On Code A brackets:
On September 15 2011 15:37 desrow wrote:
sase fighting ~

On NASL special guest caster, LZgamer:
On September 15 2011 11:02 desrow wrote:
who's the 2nd caster

On NASL open, Xeris, and happiness:
On September 14 2011 05:26 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 05:23 Xeris wrote:
On September 14 2011 05:19 desrow wrote:
New maps should never be in a qualifier. Especially for something as big as NASL
the semi open part is also outrageous but these days flippin tables doesnt change anything... =/


I can never make you happy T__________________________________________T!


trust me the day u will I will let you know and maybe ship you a box of cookies ;D
well at least its double elim 32 player :D


Advice for diamond-level PvT:
On September 13 2011 14:36 desrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 14:33 Cyro wrote:
Il post this again incase you missed it

question open to desrow too i guess

On September 13 2011 13:54 Cyro wrote:
Either way its probably a waste of your time to coach me atm, could you please suggest a solid opening that can hold gasless 3-4rax marine scv all in, 2rax conc shell with scv's pulled, transition into defending 1-1-1 and not be behind vs a 1rax expand, using only scouting information that is obtainable if you scout him last with a 9scout? Im not entirely sure where to start atm, im diamond and need to hit reset button on my PvT because ive lost every single game vs terran (25+) in the last 2 weeks aside from the ones where i abused warp prisms on close air. My mechanics and micro are good, and i can keep money really low (my macro might be bad, im not entirely sure, but i do keep money low and hit production cycles)

Thanks in advance


don't feel like writing a bible you're asking like 6-7 builds but 2gate robo FE is a good build and if u feel like ur behind after a shaky defense, collosus all in will do wonders at diamond level




Avilo:
+ Show Spoiler +

On ling/bling/muta versus thor/hellion:
On September 16 2011 03:16 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 02:25 InTheRainBOw wrote:
I just played ling/bling/muta against it and thor/hellion is just so freakin OP'd..


I still have to try FG which is just so good against MMM but not good against TH


why would you ever play ling/bling/muta against thor/hellion? That's like playing only marines against only speed banes on creep and claiming banelings are OP.


On late-game nukes:
On September 15 2011 14:55 avilo wrote:
yeh nukes are really good lategame vs every race. If you get maxed there's no reason to not get 5-8 nuke silos along with your army. Nukes take zero supply and you can zone off areas you're moving into or out of, as well as harrass infrastructure.

I dunno if most people just make "more tanks+more marines" but it's very difficult to get your unit composition perfect if you are going marine/tank/ghost/med/thor versus mass mass broodlord/infestor into ultra switch.

Because you have to kill the current broodlord/infestor/mass ling army and then have a strong enough unit base to not insta-die to the ultra switch. That's why most people go mass ghosts now instead of vikings, because vikings are utterly useless against ultras.

ghostmech is another story imo...if you can get 3/3 mech with mass ghosts/nukes then you can fight into the late late game in a macro game on even footing.


On goody's stream:
On September 10 2011 02:37 avilo wrote:
Good stuff goody, will definitely tune in to get another perspective on mech tvp



orb:

+ Show Spoiler +

Responding to criticism of his NASL casting:
On September 16 2011 13:03 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 12:00 Linkdx wrote:
Can we not get some guy with a mic in his living room to commentate, it feels so unprofessional and shouldnt be happening in a league with a name as prestigious as the north american star league.

At least show up to the studio or position your camera in a way where the background isnt a living room...


Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately I live in Maryland, and the studio is in California. It's not really economically feasible to fly out a guest caster all the way across the United States for a short time. I asked before the cast if I should try to setup a sheet to block my background, but I was informed it was fine. Sorry if this bothers you.

On NASL graphics and lag:
On September 15 2011 11:26 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 11:11 ampson wrote:
The new graphics are amazing quality, the HD looks great (but has had some lag problems). The both-players view at the start of the games lasts a little long, but overall, I am VERY impressed so far.


I agree the new graphics are sick.

Don't worry about the lag issue, it's not NASL's fault. Seems twitch.tv is having some issues today.... we had the same lag problem broadcasting the korean weekly. Edit: This might be a separate issue...


On lzGamer, hotness, and hetero-crushes:
On September 15 2011 11:08 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 11:04 Doodsmack wrote:
On September 15 2011 10:48 johnny_enlgish wrote:
The new caster sounds and looks too feminine and they can fix it by having a new caster in his place.

Other than that so far so good, although justin.tv streams lags a bit




I'm really struggling to see how he looks feminine. Maybe you can enlighten me?


LzGaMeR is extremely attractive. Perhaps johnny_enlgish interprets anyone attractive as a girl? Must never have had a hetero-man-crush before...


On Hister's PvT Immortal style:
On September 12 2011 02:46 -orb- wrote:
This looks like a great build to have ready for 1.4.

I'll probably adapt this build to work in warp prisms as well (use the immortals for immo drops to kill supply depots, not to mention the ability to micro them vs marauders and pick them up before they take damage and between attacks, etc)



Liquid'Tyler:
+ Show Spoiler +

On ambiguous lol's in the SOTG thread:
On September 14 2011 23:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 22:47 FrankWalls wrote:
On September 14 2011 22:39 JayJay_90 wrote:
On September 14 2011 22:28 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On September 14 2011 22:11 JayJay_90 wrote:
The worst part imo was when Tyler came on though. I didn't know if i should rage or lol about the way he talked about a player, who is way ahead of him skillwise. (if i recall it correctly he called him a "not fully developed sc2 player" and even asked, if he's even supposed to talk about the matchup Luci - DRG

lol

Are you loling about the fact that i make such a big deal about an incidental comment that maybe wasn't to be taken seriously or over my statement that Lucifron would roflstomp you?

well you were wondering if you should rage or lol, and he said lol, so you should lol.

yep lol.

i saw an opportunity to post an ambiguous lol, so i took it

but jayjay took the rage route!


On accusing Blizzard of trolling, with the possible slight baneling drop nerf:
On September 14 2011 02:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 04:32 PenguinWithNuke wrote:
I hope Blizzard is trolling.

Why would you ever hope Blizzard is trolling? This anti-Blizzard/pro-chaos attitude adds nothing to the discussion. If you think Blizzard made a mistake, then explain why you think it's a mistake and leave it at that. It's absurd to tell us that you hope that they're making the mistake on purpose so that they can have a laugh about it.


On streams you can't live without, and being absurdly clever and handsome:
On September 13 2011 06:08 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
twitch.tv/liquidtyler



incontrol:

+ Show Spoiler +

On supporting Huk and IdrA for DH Valencia:
On September 16 2011 10:33 iNcontroL wrote:
Go huk and idra!!!


From the SOTG thread, on opinions:
On September 15 2011 09:56 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 09:49 Resilient wrote:
On September 15 2011 09:47 Bayyne wrote:
On September 15 2011 09:45 Resilient wrote:
On September 15 2011 09:24 Gamegene wrote:
zzz.

Fuck people, iNcontrol has an opinion and that's his opinion. Unlike the people in the last couple pages, he's not going up to people who enjoyed the matches and saying "YOU'RE WRONG and you over there, YOU'RE WRONG."

Stop taking it personally!

If you enjoyed it fantastic! iNcontrol didn't, but that doesn't give you the right to criticize him for his damn opinion! And if you don't like hearing his opinions, DON'T WATCH THE SHOW!


Unless I'm remembering things badly, he did say something like, "if you watched them, knowing what they would be, you have too much free time". Which is a direct suggestion that noone should have watched or enjoyed them.


And that's his opinion, sup? You think if he suggests to people to not eat for 3 days straight people will listen?


That's not really the point. Anyone can have an opinion, and I respect his. The problem is when you bring that opinion over and question other people's choices. Then that's not an opinion at all.


I'm of the opinion that you thinking an opinion on other people's actions isn't an opinion is bad.


Stands up for himself in SOTG thread:
On September 15 2011 09:54 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 09:23 Hider wrote:
On September 15 2011 07:56 Plansix wrote:
On September 15 2011 06:09 Hider wrote:
On September 15 2011 04:05 FryktSkyene wrote:
On September 15 2011 03:55 nvs. wrote:
I think Incontrol is constructive when he criticizes a tournament or player.


My problem wasn't with Incontrol criticizing a tournament or a player, it was with him calling us all idiots for enjoying the show.

Ya. Pretty constructive.


It makes sense though.

He didn't enjoy it ---- > No one can enjoy it ---- > 'Stupid games' -----> stupid people.

see?

-.-



This is what makes incontrols double standards:

He dont like receiving negative critic --> No one should state their negative opinions about him on forums --> They are haters --> Need to talk about how annoying it is that people are hating on him for 5 minutes on a talk show.

Or you could argue that Incontrol likes to make fun of people, which somes times may actually hurt their feelings --> IF they laugh as a response they must think it is funny, and we are all friends --> Incontrol dont see any problems making comments on Huks height.

Some people have negative associations with the word "rape" --> No one is allowed to mention that word in any context because it could hurt some peoples feelings.


Well if this isn't the most poorly crafted argument I've seen in a while. Its pretty much "I am going to loosely paraphrase some of thing you said over last 5 months in an order that makes my point."

Incontrol says that people are haters because they are. People are just looking for a reason to jump all over him. They hear him stay "Your an idiot" and freak out, claiming that he is calling the community and people who like "all star games" dumb.

When in fact, he stated "If you think I'm an idiot for not liking the games, your an idiot". He did not say that anyone who liked the games were idiots. He was referring to a much smaller group of people who was saying he was stupid for not understanding the "spirit" of the all star games. I know that complex sentence structure is hard some folks, but its not a reason to freak out.

Also, I like the ending when the word "rape" is added in for shock value. It has nothing to do with anything else in the post, but it make you sit up and take notice. Its the sign of a well thought out argument that needs some punch at the end.


Ok, i did not actually listen to the episode as it has got kinda boring as of late, and it seems like someone in an earlier post misquoted incontrol I dont think there is anything wrong with what he said there, so my bad. However this doesn't change that incontrol is a hypocrite. The rape/huk example was just an example of Incontrol not understanding how he should actually behave if he wants to follow his own moral which he wants destiny and other streamers to follow. Its a similiar situation because he advices never to say something which could hurt other peoples feeling. And incontrol obv. lacks understandings of human behaviour when he thinks Huk laughing = everything is fine and we are all friends.


Hey Hider,

It's pretty simple. You don't know Huk. Not at all. Not even in the least. hell, he doesn't know you. It's this perfect example of you getting all upset on behalf of someone you don't have any connection to at all and assuming the worst of it. Lets go further! The rape debate that happened 4 or 5 months ago was about a particular word and it's colloquial function in gamer language. What wasn't being discussed is all words/phrases that might upset someone somewhere.. it was specifically about "rape" and "nigger." You comparing me making a short joke to a friend and people using "rape" in their cast are so far off point I am in danger of believing you to be a person acting ignorant for attention.

Couple quick suggestions for you: Don't bitch about something then later admit you didn't even watch the show in question. Don't assume you know EGHuk better than EGiNcontroL, you don't. Stop arguing in general on the internet.. you seem to not only be bad but destructively incapable of doing it.




Goody:
+ Show Spoiler +

On streaming:
On September 10 2011 01:25 GoOdy wrote:
Yay, my stream is up =)

http://www.regame.tv/live/3396



"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
September 16 2011 16:10 GMT
#2
Great compendium! Hope this gets kept up!
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
September 16 2011 16:18 GMT
#3
Nice! Love reading that stuff haha.
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
September 16 2011 16:19 GMT
#4
So... you're stalking them on TL?
I love it.
:)
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
September 16 2011 16:27 GMT
#5
I like this thread and it should continue.
Fangzhou
Profile Joined April 2010
United States199 Posts
September 16 2011 16:32 GMT
#6
Very interesting read, absolutely love the idea and I hope it will continue in the future!
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
September 16 2011 16:42 GMT
#7
Gotta love that InControl's name continue to stand for the best in eSports.

If it ain't containing atleast one reference to incontrol, it ain't drama yet.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
two.watup
Profile Joined March 2011
United States371 Posts
September 16 2011 16:42 GMT
#8
Incontrol just went in on that hater lol

Nice compendium. I think everyone really enjoys reading pro posts, cause they're just ppl like us, and a lot of posters seem to forget that.
Rawenkeke
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway350 Posts
September 16 2011 16:45 GMT
#9
Shit. Incontrol verbally raped that guy!
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
September 16 2011 16:46 GMT
#10
Now we're just missing some photos of the progamers' bodies.
#TeamBuLba
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 16 2011 16:46 GMT
#11
I love whenever Tyler posts. It's either hilarious, really insightful, or both.
zJayy962
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1363 Posts
September 16 2011 16:48 GMT
#12
Um. Amazing. Thank you. Now I don't feel like such a stalker when I search pro player names to see if they posted on certain threads. I hope I wasn't the only one to do this.....
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
September 16 2011 16:55 GMT
#13
this is going to be quite difficult to maintain. pretty interesting if you can though so gl :D
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
September 16 2011 17:00 GMT
#14
Good idea, but I think this would be better if it pertained only to the in-game, eg. no mentions of other players quoted here
Just stuff like "The timing is too late" or "I feel these units to be ineffective" or w.e
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
September 16 2011 17:00 GMT
#15
Haha, Goody will take at least 1 year to appear on this list again.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#16
On September 17 2011 02:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Good idea, but I think this would be better if it pertained only to the in-game, eg. no mentions of other players quoted here
Just stuff like "The timing is too late" or "I feel these units to be ineffective" or w.e

Not quite sure if you're saying I should give more context to the quotes, or if I should focus on compiling strategy/game-related comments. That's something I was wondering as I compiled these, actually -- I was surprised how much Avilo contributes to the strat forum, for example.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#17
On September 17 2011 02:00 antilyon wrote:
Haha, Goody will take at least 1 year to appear on this list again.

2 years, probably; he has to finish his Bo11 first.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Poyo
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada790 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#18
Haha Goody's quote ^^

Cheers for the summary.
Poyo! poyo! poyo! poyo! poyo!
sc2trainer
Profile Joined August 2011
63 Posts
September 16 2011 17:11 GMT
#19
I think this is a great idea, but without Idra I don't care.
shrinkmaster
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany947 Posts
September 16 2011 17:12 GMT
#20
If you're able to update this on a regular basis it could become one of the more interesting threads on teamliquid.
Voltaire: The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
September 16 2011 17:12 GMT
#21
wow this is quite awesome haha =P I do it myself sometimes for liquid players since they are easy to access from the teamliquid pro page
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2577 Posts
September 16 2011 17:12 GMT
#22
This is a great initiative. If you wanted to put something like this together for each month, I would definitely read it. I occasionally stalk iNcontrol or Tyler via their profiles to see what they're posting; getting a compendium like this on a regular basis would be very cool for me.
The frumious Bandersnatch
SgtPepper
Profile Joined November 2010
United States568 Posts
September 16 2011 17:17 GMT
#23
Good idea, I never have the energy to look through hundreds of pages of forums to find pro opinions
"After I reconquer Ba Sing Se, I'm going to reconquer my tea shop! And I'm going to play Pai Sho every day."
quistador
Profile Joined March 2011
United States43 Posts
September 16 2011 17:18 GMT
#24
Hmm.. strange you can even see the keyboard when you're kissing all their asses.
krowe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States184 Posts
September 16 2011 17:27 GMT
#25
Very interesting post, must of taken you quite some time to collect all these quotes.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 16 2011 17:28 GMT
#26
On September 17 2011 02:27 krowe wrote:
Very interesting post, must of taken you quite some time to collect all these quotes.

I spent an hour and a half or so, maybe, and I'm sure I'm missing people.

Slow day at work.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
September 16 2011 17:31 GMT
#27
...Am I reading a post about... other people's... posts?

What?
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
GowraK
Profile Joined March 2011
18 Posts
September 16 2011 17:34 GMT
#28
I love iNcontroL. I don really understand all the hate he receives.
iblink
Profile Joined September 2011
Netherlands36 Posts
September 16 2011 17:36 GMT
#29
If you put desrow in a 'smarter people than me' list, then i have bad news for you... anyways i don't want to flame or anything but i find that very disturbing.
just do it
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 16 2011 17:37 GMT
#30
On September 17 2011 02:31 Gamegene wrote:
...Am I reading a post about... other people's... posts?

What?

Wait a second... what am I now reading? A post about a post about...
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
September 16 2011 17:39 GMT
#31
I'm really enjoying this compilation...I was pleasantly surprised at how much of this material I had not seen. Thanks!
Mercurial#1193
galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 18:21:43
September 16 2011 17:47 GMT
#32
This is great, I've3 often felt the same way and have scrolled down looking for Blue posters (but never seem to find any).
I kind of wonder how they all have 5k-15k posts if I see so few T.T probably just me being a newbie.

Can we suggest people to add to the stalker list?
I'd love to see more liquid players (esp Ret and HuK), IdrA (rage! analysis!), TT1, and any of the upcoming prominent EU players (Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, etc).
Oh, and Destiny, he actually has great opinions and understanding of the game (in my uninformed and probably incorrect opinion).

On September 17 2011 03:17 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:
Get some Idra, Artosis and Day9 in there (:


Oh and definitely Artosis and Day9!
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
September 16 2011 17:48 GMT
#33
Great thread!

This is why I suggested we have the ability to individually highlight certain user's posts, so that we can more easily find out what the people we're interested in hearing from are saying:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=255307
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:54:42
September 16 2011 17:54 GMT
#34
Orb is a pro? I had no idea.

Neat thread tho, lol@Tyler stream comment.
Communism
Profile Joined November 2010
United States176 Posts
September 16 2011 17:55 GMT
#35
This is the most amazing thread ever conceived thank you so much OP
KingOfAmerica
Profile Joined April 2011
United States246 Posts
September 16 2011 18:00 GMT
#36
lol this thread is a little stalker-ie, but I love it. Well done OP.
The nukes gonna land on his aarrrrmmmmyyy AHHHHH
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 16 2011 18:04 GMT
#37
On September 17 2011 02:54 Hypemeup wrote:
Orb is a pro? I had no idea.

Neat thread tho, lol@Tyler stream comment.

He hasn't competed professionally since the SC2 beta, according to liquipedia, but he's still a community figure who does a lot of streaming and commentating.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
September 16 2011 18:06 GMT
#38
On September 17 2011 03:04 zarepath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 02:54 Hypemeup wrote:
Orb is a pro? I had no idea.

Neat thread tho, lol@Tyler stream comment.

He hasn't competed professionally since the SC2 beta, according to liquipedia, but he's still a community figure who does a lot of streaming and commentating.


Oh yeah, for some reason I thought it was only pro players ~~'
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
September 16 2011 18:08 GMT
#39
beastyqt <3
I am not good with quotes
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
September 16 2011 18:17 GMT
#40
Get some Idra, Artosis and Day9 in there (:
Jaedong.
WeedRa
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany815 Posts
September 16 2011 18:21 GMT
#41
Since when is "orb" a pro? (no offense )
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
September 16 2011 18:21 GMT
#42
Awesome work. I hope this will encourage more pro's to post on TL again. That was why TL became what it is today; because all the best players used TL as a forum. Since Sc2, that's almost entirely gone, perhaps if pro posts were more spotlighted and given the respect they deserve it would need to more participation from top players, and better discussions.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Vaelone
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Finland4400 Posts
September 16 2011 18:24 GMT
#43
It's funny how some pros manage to get themselves banned all the time even with mods taking a more lenient approach towards them than most community members. Not to forget that they are the people that have the most reason to actually behave themselves unlike anons such as me.

Someone should compile all the awful/banhammered posts made by pros for entertainment purposes only.
GettingIt
Profile Joined August 2011
1656 Posts
September 16 2011 18:25 GMT
#44
This thread can be the TMZ of Starcraft 2!
Madera
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
September 16 2011 18:28 GMT
#45
This is pretty cool, good job.
itkovian
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1763 Posts
September 16 2011 18:29 GMT
#46
Hehe, I love incontrol's posts, he's always willing to stand up for himself. It's the fighting spirit that makes him one of my favorite players.
=)=
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
September 16 2011 18:30 GMT
#47
Nice thats pretty interesting.
Good job!
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
September 16 2011 18:32 GMT
#48
TL needs something like the red tracker LoL has except for pro players.
DoublespeakUS
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States55 Posts
September 16 2011 18:32 GMT
#49
This got me thinking. Why isn't there an exclusive forum on TL.net?

One that can be viewed by all but posted on by few. Similar to Arenajunkies with the gladiators subforum, I think it would be cool to have a Masters and up only forum.

This is a good idea and a great start to it. Keep it up =D
MMA/Select/Thorzain
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
September 16 2011 18:40 GMT
#50
Nice idea, mang! Thanks a bundle!
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Moobutt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1996 Posts
September 16 2011 18:41 GMT
#51
Wow. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Please do this weekly.
3/22/16 The Day EG Died
galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
September 16 2011 18:42 GMT
#52
On September 17 2011 03:32 DoublespeakUS wrote:
This got me thinking. Why isn't there an exclusive forum on TL.net?

One that can be viewed by all but posted on by few. Similar to Arenajunkies with the gladiators subforum, I think it would be cool to have a Masters and up only forum.

This is a good idea and a great start to it. Keep it up =D

Because even Masters and up can lead to stuff like this.
And what on earth would they talk about? If you want to watch hgih level people talk about general stuff just watch stuff like SotG.
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
September 16 2011 18:48 GMT
#53
Im sorry but most of the contribution in posts are not the wisest nor very interesting at all, their tl-famous persons but that ends there.

This is like the weekly star magazine were they have absolutely nothing to say and people read some boring stuff some star wrote.
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
September 16 2011 18:51 GMT
#54
This is a great idea and I appreciate all the work you put into this, but truth be told all these posts could be put together by a member of staff much much more easily since they have easy access to everyone's post history.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
September 16 2011 19:00 GMT
#55
Awesome work, really appreciated this
UndoneJin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States438 Posts
September 16 2011 19:08 GMT
#56
A bit of drama mixed in, but definitely some funny/insightful stuff =D
I've been lost since the day I was born ----- You're gonna carry that weight
Geordie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom653 Posts
September 16 2011 19:10 GMT
#57
Man hopefully this becomes a monthly/weekly feature depending on how much time you have. this was super cool. 5/5 if this was a blog.
DoublespeakUS
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States55 Posts
September 16 2011 19:11 GMT
#58
On September 17 2011 03:42 galtdunn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 03:32 DoublespeakUS wrote:
This got me thinking. Why isn't there an exclusive forum on TL.net?

One that can be viewed by all but posted on by few. Similar to Arenajunkies with the gladiators subforum, I think it would be cool to have a Masters and up only forum.

This is a good idea and a great start to it. Keep it up =D

Because even Masters and up can lead to stuff like this.
And what on earth would they talk about? If you want to watch hgih level people talk about general stuff just watch stuff like SotG.



Frankly there are more than just a handful of people that are featured on these exclusive shows that are very capable of playing this game and sharing their insight.

No offense to the shows. I watch them frequently and they are usually very informative, but they are all old buddies gathering around giggling about starcraft news.

There are a lot of gamers that I look up to, that share a lot of good information on Starcraft2 who's names will never be mentioned on this shows because a) they don't have the fame and b) they aren't involved in any esport events. They are just really good at this game.

We all enjoy hearing from people with skilled reputations, that's why this thread is emerging. Another person stated that TL used to be a place where high skilled progamers would come and discuss/chat/hangout yet they don't anymore because most of the posts here now are 1 liner responses with zero content.

I'm just making a suggestion that came to mind, that relates to idea the OP had. I'm not saying that progamers would use the forum, but just think of how many Masters players there are. Think if they had their own forum to post strats/discussions/ideas without being bombarded by responses like "Wow cool idea (end post)" but actual feedback related responses. I'm not saying that I would be anyone to make posts in that forum, but I would definitely browse that forum... perhaps more frequenlty than SC2 General. I think it merits interest to both high-level players and casual players.
MMA/Select/Thorzain
The.Imperator
Profile Joined October 2010
138 Posts
September 16 2011 19:17 GMT
#59
Morrow giving his opinion about the PTR patch:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258724&currentpage=116#2310
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258724&currentpage=418#8348
Szubie
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom294 Posts
September 16 2011 19:22 GMT
#60
I like, very nice to be able to just read what the pros think: a rare opportunity.
IMMvp, Maru
KaiserJohan
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1808 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 19:34:02
September 16 2011 19:33 GMT
#61
On September 17 2011 02:34 GowraK wrote:
I love iNcontroL. I don really understand all the hate he receives.


Because he regularly insults people, such as the audience, on shows like TL attack and SotG. He kind of has it comming to him. Ever wondered why Day9 isn't getting any hate? Because he dosn't belittle his viewers.
I don't think that's what he want though, he probably dosn't realize himself how spiteful his comments may be, which is unfortunate for everyone involved.
England will fight to the last American
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
September 16 2011 20:16 GMT
#62
I really enjoyed this thread thank you for compiling it.
Carrilord has arrived.
IMNotMvp
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)530 Posts
September 17 2011 07:25 GMT
#63
thanks! love this<3
VeryAverage
Profile Joined January 2011
United States424 Posts
September 17 2011 07:29 GMT
#64
I expected Goody's post to be about tanks. I was thoroughly disappointed.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
September 17 2011 07:32 GMT
#65
lol @ goodys post hahaha

this is a nice idea I like reading many of these peoples comments on various topics.
MountainGoat
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States507 Posts
September 17 2011 07:38 GMT
#66
I like this a lot. Seeing pro opinion is interesting and it's hard to sift through everything to find it.
Rygar
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden28 Posts
September 17 2011 08:03 GMT
#67
This is great. Please continue <3
CrazyAsian
Profile Joined October 2010
United States188 Posts
September 17 2011 08:06 GMT
#68
I got a good laugh out of this one, keep it up! Amazing thread.
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
September 17 2011 08:07 GMT
#69
Great compilation Well done
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
September 17 2011 08:10 GMT
#70
Nice work but...orb? Really?
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
September 17 2011 08:12 GMT
#71
this is like the celebrity stalker thread. =D
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