Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 996

On June 02 2014 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:


None of those tournaments are counted in the "recent stat" in question. Moreover, in the IEM he played in 2014, he played against Dream and TY, so even if it was counted, it wouldn't really lower the level).

It's never been implied that Bbyong was a random korean. If Zest were to beat Maru today, most people would consider that a surprise. That doesn't mean Zest sucks.

On June 02 2014 02:35 Faust852 wrote:

If I say Classic is weaker than Zest, do I mean Classic is not at the top of korean scene ? I don't think so.

On June 02 2014 03:21 Faust852 wrote:


So as I expected, you were just toying around to troll people.

On June 02 2014 03:56 Wombat_NI wrote:
What have I stepped into lol?

I'd need to have a closer look mind but my instinctual feel is that foreign Ts have been putting up some decent results lately, especially in WCS EU. They're not making huge breakthroughs but I would say they're doing better on average which can only be a good thing for the scene

On June 02 2014 05:04 Wombat_NI wrote:
MKP got raped that game, through bad decisions and cutting so many needless corners. I've seen worse examples of the, let's say 'problematic' ways in which Mutas can function.

On June 02 2014 05:18 Big J wrote:


completely true. But I think we see this theme a lot. Terran goes into the midgame on even terms, gets his third base up, has equal supply. Then mutas come in and the Terran supply starts stagnating due to losses/defensive investments, securing a 4th becomes quite a distant goal but pushing 3base into 4base has hardly any follow up and Terran loses when his main runs dry.

On June 02 2014 04:31 Big J wrote:


They haven't been doing that badly at all during all of HotS. The perceived notion that foreigner Terrans cannot keep up with foreigner Protoss' and Zergs for racial reasons outside of balance is pretty plainly wrong.
Happy, Lucifron, Dayshi, Bunny to name a few that have been doing equally well as their Zerg collegues when balance was good in 2013 - apart from outstanding performances from Naniwa, Scarlett and Stephano; and even those 2nd places aren't much more impressive than Sjow taking 3rd at DH Summer or Lucifron being Ro8 consecutive in 3 Premier Tournaments.
But currently with the state of TvZ and how TvP has at least been - and imo still is probably slightly towards Protoss, even with the patches/blink map changes - foreign Ts are just doing as badly as their Korean Counterparts. Just that those foreigners don't have their own type of WCS America to invade to draw attention and show off.


More than ever I think blizzard HAS TO adress mutalisks. To name an example from proleague today:
+ Show Spoiler +
Imo the two possibilities to adress mutalisks are:
a) make Terran pushes strong enough to keep them defending
b) make it possible to defend them without going allout Mech

With b) being my favorite by adressing their regeneration.

On June 02 2014 06:00 Ghanburighan wrote:


Well, the statement that foreigner terrans have done ok in HOTS is arguable, but if we take out the first couple of months of HOTS, they have no results whatsoever (just like their Korean counterparts, but worse).

As for the proposed change, Polt said it well, terrans have no comeback potential. If you haven't gotten yourself an advantage or at least kept the game even, there's no point in continuing playing. This is especially true against muta, but actually the case with P as well. Which basically brings us back to the usual argumentation: terran doesn't have a lategame army or, in other words, they can't survive long enough to get their tech units out in a consistent manner (and even if they can, they cannot replenish them).

This is partly why I thought that the hellbat patch might have a bit of an impact because it forced the Z to play less greedy. But I've seen no evidence from Korea that it's actually working in the intended manner (all we seem to have is Innovation wrecking with hellbat drops again).

On June 02 2014 06:07 plogamer wrote:


That's pretty huge if Innovation can make use of the changes and make it work in Korea. Early hellbat drops might become something that Zs will have to prepare for in default or get punished hard.

Just saying we shouldn't downplay this. Mvp alone has forced a balance change in the past.

On June 02 2014 06:12 Ghanburighan wrote:


I saw it in the ATC. He played Snute, Serral and Kane.

On June 02 2014 06:00 Ghanburighan wrote:


Well, the statement that foreigner terrans have done ok in HOTS is arguable, but if we take out the first couple of months of HOTS, they have no results whatsoever (just like their Korean counterparts, but worse).

As for the proposed change, Polt said it well, terrans have no comeback potential. If you haven't gotten yourself an advantage or at least kept the game even, there's no point in continuing playing. This is especially true against muta, but actually the case with P as well. Which basically brings us back to the usual argumentation: terran doesn't have a lategame army or, in other words, they can't survive long enough to get their tech units out in a consistent manner (and even if they can, they cannot replenish them).

This is partly why I thought that the hellbat patch might have a bit of an impact because it forced the Z to play less greedy. But I've seen no evidence from Korea that it's actually working in the intended manner (all we seem to have is Innovation wrecking with hellbat drops again).