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On July 29 2012 16:06 Orek wrote:
Zerg wins = Zerg OP
Terrran wins = well, you konw, that zerg sucked hard and terran cut every corner to barely win. So, it doesn't mean much. Yeah, yeah, raven somewhat worked, but it shouldn't have in theory blah blah.
This is where community is at today.
So Gumiho going 4 ccs into double gas wasn't an example of a terran cutting every single corner possible? Keep in mind, gumiho is a multi tasking monster, the best in the game, and even after pulling off a silly risk like that he still had a lot of trouble defeating someone he is 10x better than. What I'm pointing out is just that that game in particular is not the best example ever as to how to play t v z. In fact if you try to pull that shit on the ladder you will die every single time (atlantis spaceship is not in the ladder pool).
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On July 30 2012 00:25 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 00:23 Neurosis wrote:On July 29 2012 16:06 Orek wrote:
Zerg wins = Zerg OP
Terrran wins = well, you konw, that zerg sucked hard and terran cut every corner to barely win. So, it doesn't mean much. Yeah, yeah, raven somewhat worked, but it shouldn't have in theory blah blah.
This is where community is at today. So Gumiho going 4 ccs into double gas wasn't an example of a terran cutting every single corner possible? Keep in mind, gumiho is a multi tasking monster, the best in the game, and even after pulling off a silly risk like that he still had a lot of trouble defeating someone he is 10x better than. What I'm pointing out is just that that game in particular is not the best example ever as to how to play t v z. In fact if you try to pull that shit on the ladder you will die every single time (atlantis spaceship is not in the ladder pool). It wasn't a silly risk, he scouted, knew his opponent, and it was atlantis spaceship. It wasn't a random ladder game, you really have no idea.
When gumiho decided to throw down the 3rd and 4th ccs all he had seen was a standard no gas expand 2 base zerg. That can easily be turned into a 3 gas roach bane bust which 100 percent would have killed him. But anyways my point was that the game is not a great example on how to play t v z right now, which is what people are claiming. YOU really have no idea.
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On July 30 2012 00:25 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 00:23 Neurosis wrote:On July 29 2012 16:06 Orek wrote:
Zerg wins = Zerg OP
Terrran wins = well, you konw, that zerg sucked hard and terran cut every corner to barely win. So, it doesn't mean much. Yeah, yeah, raven somewhat worked, but it shouldn't have in theory blah blah.
This is where community is at today. So Gumiho going 4 ccs into double gas wasn't an example of a terran cutting every single corner possible? Keep in mind, gumiho is a multi tasking monster, the best in the game, and even after pulling off a silly risk like that he still had a lot of trouble defeating someone he is 10x better than. What I'm pointing out is just that that game in particular is not the best example ever as to how to play t v z. In fact if you try to pull that shit on the ladder you will die every single time (atlantis spaceship is not in the ladder pool). It wasn't a silly risk, he scouted, knew his opponent, and it was atlantis spaceship. It wasn't a random ladder game, you really have no idea.
It was a silly risk. If Min would have done anything involving a- more than 20 lings or b-any te h he would have CRUSHED the 2 marine defense. CRUSHED.
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Balance Forums are ridiculous. Zerg takes every opportunity to show T is still strong, T deflects all of it (so T thinks, arguments get silly often) and Zerg comes up with silly proof games while T is screaming "so greedy still almost lose" doregarding the Terrans mistake.
My POV; I feel like Zerg is slightly to forgiving atm and that the spectators experience is complete and total thrash with 15 nr.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 30 2012 00:33 Toastie.NL wrote:
Balance Forums are ridiculous. Zerg takes every opportunity to show T is still strong, T deflects all of it (so T thinks, arguments get silly often) and Zerg comes up with silly proof games while T is screaming "so greedy still almost lose" doregarding the Terrans mistake.
My POV; I feel like Zerg is slightly to forgiving atm and that the spectators experience is complete and total thrash with 15 nr.
Ironically, you're in that "ridiculous" group ^^
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On July 30 2012 01:00 ysnake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 00:33 Toastie.NL wrote:
Balance Forums are ridiculous. Zerg takes every opportunity to show T is still strong, T deflects all of it (so T thinks, arguments get silly often) and Zerg comes up with silly proof games while T is screaming "so greedy still almost lose" doregarding the Terrans mistake.
My POV; I feel like Zerg is slightly to forgiving atm and that the spectators experience is complete and total thrash with 15 nr. Ironically, you're in that "ridiculous" group ^^
You are guilty of having used the phrase "autowin" to describe pre-patch Hellion openers. Your opinion is invalid.
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On July 30 2012 01:24 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 01:00 ysnake wrote:On July 30 2012 00:33 Toastie.NL wrote:
Balance Forums are ridiculous. Zerg takes every opportunity to show T is still strong, T deflects all of it (so T thinks, arguments get silly often) and Zerg comes up with silly proof games while T is screaming "so greedy still almost lose" doregarding the Terrans mistake.
My POV; I feel like Zerg is slightly to forgiving atm and that the spectators experience is complete and total thrash with 15 nr. Ironically, you're in that "ridiculous" group ^^ You are guilty of having used the phrase "autowin" to describe pre-patch Hellion openers. Your opinion is invalid.
It's just more special Zerg lingo. Just how Hydras are "extremely slow" and "very expensive", a Zerg being overwhelmingly ahead of an opponent is "even", being even with a Terran is an "autowin" for him. It all makes sense if you think about it.
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My 2 cents right now. Zerg is just ever so slightly stronger then Terran(A better Terran player will still win most of the time). The only real problem is Terran can't punish zerg for being greedy without going completely all in. Where as Zerg can pressure and punish without going all in. Which then makes Terran feel like they have to get super greedy(Gumiho going for 4cc off 1 rax. MKP CC first every game etc.) which leads to very boring NR15 games. Sucks from a spectators perspective. I don't know what can be done to fix this, seeing as the game is still fairly balanced, any buffs to Terran could fuck up PvT and zerg nerfs could make Zerg to weak against P.
TLDR Zerg is a touch stronger then Terran(Like just barely noticeable at all.) but not nearly imba enough to risk fucking up other match ups fixing it.
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All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows.
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On July 30 2012 02:08 ReaperCo wrote:
All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows.
Have you seen the graph of tournaments zerg won? It was something like 25 zerg, 10ish protoss, less than 5 for terran.
Its about as bad as when terran was at its most imbalanced point.
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I think the problem for Terran at the moment is that they can't match production and they need to micro a lot more to trade efficiently. It's not a simple problem to fix but hopefully in HotS they'll get something to help.
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On July 30 2012 02:15 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 02:08 ReaperCo wrote:
All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows. Have you seen the graph of tournaments zerg won? It was something like 25 zerg, 10ish protoss, less than 5 for terran. Its about as bad as when terran was at its most imbalanced point.
Maybe it is psychology after the ghost nerf terrran feels weak for some reason and after some time they become as good as before,
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On July 30 2012 02:30 Kamwah wrote:
I think the problem for Terran at the moment is that they can't match production and they need to micro a lot more to trade efficiently. It's not a simple problem to fix but hopefully in HotS they'll get something to help.
Yep. AMove friendly meh units that fail to cover mech biggest weakneeses. Oh, and a nerf to offensive nuking  ! Right Avilo?
Im excited for hots because EVERYTHING will be different. No possible prediciting
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On July 30 2012 02:56 ReaperCo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 02:15 Bagi wrote:On July 30 2012 02:08 ReaperCo wrote:
All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows. Have you seen the graph of tournaments zerg won? It was something like 25 zerg, 10ish protoss, less than 5 for terran. Its about as bad as when terran was at its most imbalanced point. Maybe it is psychology after the ghost nerf terrran feels weak for some reason and after some time they become as good as before,
After this time I dont think we can say the ghost nerf has anything psychologic to it anymofe
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On July 30 2012 02:57 Toastie.NL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 02:56 ReaperCo wrote:On July 30 2012 02:15 Bagi wrote:On July 30 2012 02:08 ReaperCo wrote:
All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows. Have you seen the graph of tournaments zerg won? It was something like 25 zerg, 10ish protoss, less than 5 for terran. Its about as bad as when terran was at its most imbalanced point. Maybe it is psychology after the ghost nerf terrran feels weak for some reason and after some time they become as good as before, After this time I dont think we can say the ghost nerf has anything psychologic to it anymofe
I want to see the ladder statistcs, dont you? i think it would be like zvt 50/50 zvp 50/58
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Or nerf zerg so i feel better being a better player no problem.
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On July 30 2012 02:56 ReaperCo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 02:15 Bagi wrote:On July 30 2012 02:08 ReaperCo wrote:
All the players that say zerg is op, you dont have any meat on you legs before you se the statistics. I still think terran is the only race that you can say was imbalanced at one point i think it is as good as any other race right now but no one knows. Have you seen the graph of tournaments zerg won? It was something like 25 zerg, 10ish protoss, less than 5 for terran. Its about as bad as when terran was at its most imbalanced point. Maybe it is psychology after the ghost nerf terrran feels weak for some reason and after some time they become as good as before,
Terrans have become better after the nerf sure, but its certainly not as good as before.
High level TvZ seems to be centered around proxy 2rax or extremely greedy play, think 3 cc on 1 rax.The problem is that a terran playing safe standard styles just doesn't seem to stand a chance, so they are forced to do extreme builds to keep up. It also makes for worse TvZ games from a spectator POV, we rarely have those back-and-forth macro games any more.
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My dream in sc2 now is that dustin nerf zerg so we become a insane race in the balance prospective, and we have to fight thats where zerg belonngs. Then the terrans can come with there tanks like they want and just crush everything.
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EPT
