EPTWhy cannot the SC-community accept imbalance? - Page 7
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
i think there are things that can be considered imbalanced - beta 7 range voidray rushes, 5rax reaper etc. but those were early/mid game scenarios very hard to beat. the only equivalent of that right now seems to be 1/1/1 allin vs protoss (is it imbalanced? i don't know). if there is a scenario in late game supposedly "imba" then i can't do anything but laugh. infestors, hellions, banshees, broodlords - all these things are strong if you don't know how to deal with them. but imbalanced? come on i strongly believe the maps set the trends and make "op" strategies - fe. thor drop on LT. in BW, the maps were tailored to accomodate FE toss and make FE zerg safer. i can't say we have such maps in sc2 (besides some obviously), all we have are fucking rocks everywhere, thats why fast 3rd for zerg to counter FE of toss is very hard because you cant expo close to your base and then voidrays kill you etc. last thing: it's so funny seeing people complain about balance when they just fucking SUCK. LEARN TO PLAY | ||
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Sogetsu
514 Posts
Even Pokemon is a strategy game (I play it also at competitive level) However, in those games it's normal to have a tier list and play about it, because the game developers made it that fashion But SC2 is a game where there SHOULD be Balance, because it is not designed to get "tiers" between races Also, the game is near to be perfectly balanced, but the mechanics of the game generate many abusable things, like ForceFields, Stim, Fungal, etc, while they are NO OP, they are "abusable" and change drastically the matches and the metagame Then, because there is not actually something REALLY OP, and all races have something abusable at some point, we can say the game is +95% balanced, and the complaints some times are not well argued Anyways this game benefits the All In gameplay, and the strong timing pushes, making it change the match in seconds, and requesting more skill to stop more things than the needed to execute them SC BW had different mechanics, really different ones, so SC2 can not be "as same balanced as BW" , and it IS so close to the perfect balance on the way it is designed, even if it feels "unfair" on many situations The nerf/buff to units can help like it did actually from the Beta, but the other things can't change unitill the game is remade similar to BW | ||
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Woizit
801 Posts
In other words, discussion about imbalances is actually important strategically, whether it's considered whining or not. For example, everybody understands that the Protoss late game composition is strong, possibly OP, and as a result, the opposing player will develop strategies that prevents this imbalance from hurting him. i.e, drop plays to split, timing attacks etc. Or that the BFH are ridiculously good at killing workers, and so players are now developing strategies to defend themselves against that through sim cities. It's possible that sometimes, certain strategies are too overpowering for the game to be enjoyable, but the point is not that it creates balance whines (and that such things requires fixing). Rather, when people say a race is overpowered, it's usually referring to a certain strategy that can be employed by that specific race, and caution and countermeasures are to be exercised against that. Understanding the imbalances in different situations is intrinsic to the gameplay itself. This will probably explain why race switching does not seem to be as acceptable, simply because the understanding of the game comes first. The lack of acceptance over imbalances is simply a reflection of the competitive nature of the game, and that people are trying to overturn such disadvantages themselves. | ||
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Mutaahh
Netherlands859 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
yunryuchunliaajefnkwefnwkfnwjfnkjafnfnrfn... There are so many more options to choose from in SF4. Therefor it is THAT much harder to balance and the expectations much lower. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Tyree
1508 Posts
The major issue with that is that SC2 was not and is not balanced like BW was after so many years and so many patches, their intentions were good, they wanted people to relax and not focus so much on them, but it was impossible. It is very important to remember that knowing and realizing the game is not balanced is not the same as bitching about balance issues in every thread, chat, game, Bnet, TL, reddit etc. Whether people like it or not the balance will take a huge swing again with HotS whatever unit and changes Blizzard implents will simply make the game even unbalanced in whatever direction it goes. Again appriciate the people from BW who are trying to put a lid on the fire but they also sometimes sound naive or simply trying to turn their backs to something that is pretty obvious to everyone. Reminds me of Idra talking to Day9, i dislike Idra very much but his points on Zerg and Zerg scouting for example were 100% right, yet Day9 just basically acted like a politician and tried everything to avoid answering anything directly. Again i love Day9 but in this discussion i was let down. | ||
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ETisME
12806 Posts
It's not just the units that counts, the map attributes hugely onto the whole balance issue. engagement location's open areas, bases' distance, rush distance etc Even if we place the race onto open field with nothing but minerals and gas, then have a game there would be good for one race (I am thinking Zerg) and bad for another. Whereas on SF4, there is no such things, it is all about the characters. | ||
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lcl
United Kingdom119 Posts
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
That being said, idle complaints are a way to relieve stress associated with losing; So it's the individual's decision to tolerate that or not. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Gingerninja
United Kingdom1339 Posts
Like Maurder > Stalker and roach but loses to immortal? rather than the game outright? Also Capcom went on record and said they don't balance some of their games, they just keep throwing different things and more overpowered stuff in, and the game ends up so broken it kind of balances itself out eventually. (I think this was more specifically about the MvC series tho) Where Blizzard does try and keep an active balance on everything rather than fix it's problems by just throwing more stuff at it. | ||
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keioh
France1099 Posts
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Papulatus
United States669 Posts
The reason that the SC-community can't accept imbalance is because there are 3 races, where as in a fighting game there are many characters. Each race is a world of difference, and if one of them was shit tier (I.E. Zerg at release) we would only see tvp, pvp, and tvt. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
balance is also on average having a 50% win rate against all characters ... ie 40:60 is ok if there is another with 60:40 the same should be true in sc2 and in both games it is the idea of a hard counter. There shoudl also be no redundancy in characters / units when all matchups are considered. I dont think most people understand how subtle and delicate a concept like balance is. Its like randomness, a perfectly random situation can rip you off many times in a row, and it can appear to have patterns. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On August 13 2011 17:45 PredY wrote: last thing: it's so funny seeing people complain about balance when they just fucking SUCK. LEARN TO PLAY I agree with this the most. Some things are imbalanced at low levels just because everyone can't play do everything that the pros can do. That doesn't mean it's imbalanced, it just means they suck. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
You can't do that when you have three races. Imagine if toss was plainly stronger than the other two, and the last few rounds of every tournament was PvPvPvP. Did you imagine that? Good. Once you've arisen from the foetal position, you'll know why starcraft shoots for equality. | ||
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
SC2 has around 15 units per race x 3 = 45. You're counting each race as one thing to balance, when it is actually a lot more. | ||
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ChaosWielder
United States166 Posts
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