EPT
good job tho dude, Seems very cool!Macrorush - build order generator - Page 2
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
good job tho dude, Seems very cool! | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On August 05 2011 16:29 jarf1337 wrote: I got this with SCFusion in like 10 seconds as CarbonTwelve has stated, interesting that it skips the Queen and claims 2 seconds faster than the above build. Yep, it is a little faster (which means it's doing what it's supposed to), but having the queen is the better build so I add that to the requirements. You both seem to be using a genetic solution here, maybe SCFusion has optimized the solution space or something. It seems to get to the answer much faster. I think it's mostly due to the sheer number of games that SCFusion can analyse. It's extremely optimised which is why I wrote it in C++. On August 05 2011 19:03 Inori wrote: I fully agree with this. Maybe it's just my luck, but any BO I've ever tested with SCBuildOrder was always behind by about 30 sec - 1min. I'm not a pro, but my execution level should be enough (mid masters). Have you got an example? If so send it through to me and I'll look into it (don't want to spam this thread too much with SCBuildOrder/SCFusion stuff). | ||
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MarcoBrei
Brazil66 Posts
On August 05 2011 13:03 CarbonTwelve wrote: I'm sure I could do the marauder one too if you wanted proof on that. I think it's impossible to get one marauder in 2:58, with this BO. In fact, I feel like it's impossible to get one marauder in less than 3:00 with any build order. I'm not here to start a fight between the two programs, as I said before macrorush will not have the best solution in all situations, also will not be the faster program, but I did think it was necessary to point out some common mistakes related to "number of games processed" (this number has no such relevance since each program has a complete distinct methods to evolve generations) and "real time execution" (I recommend people to test build orders in game, since any suggestion of any build order generator may have some deviation). | ||
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extropy
United States37 Posts
On August 05 2011 11:05 MarcoBrei wrote: But when I tried to simulate the build orders in game, both could be done in exactly 3:07 (my best try, for both). In this case macrorush BO is a little better in macro perspective (1 additional worker). And the time suggested by SCFusion (2:58) seems to be impossible to achieve. I tried the build orders out too, but I managed to get my Marauder out a full 7 seconds faster than you were able to. It popped out at 3:00. I used the build order from SCFusion. Replay: link | ||
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Not_That
287 Posts
2:57 marauder | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:14 MarcoBrei wrote: I think it's impossible to get one marauder in 2:58, with this BO. In fact, I feel like it's impossible to get one marauder in less than 3:00 with any build order. I'm not here to start a fight between the two programs I don't want to start a fight either, I only started showing replays once you were saying the times from SCFusion were impossible to achieve, which has been shown isn't the case. On August 06 2011 04:44 Not_That wrote: I tried it once and managed a 2:59 marauder. After a few more tries, I decided to try it in slower game speed. Managed a 2:57 marauder. I think the build order can be improved by initially sending 4 scvs on gas, because waiting for the gas for the tech lab is the bottle neck in this build, and the scv that built the refinery doesn't come out facing the CC thus the refinery isn't mined efficiently. 2:57 marauder This can also depend on the map and spawn location as to how close the gas geysers are. I used to assume there was 1 close geyser and 1 far away (usually a diagonal from your base), but a lot of people were reporting bugs that for gas intensive builds (eg, DTs) it would put 7 workers on gas (3 for the close one, 4 for the one further away), so I switched it to just assume 2 close geysers (so it only uses 3 each). Either way, the build order is certainly valid and the times are fairly accurate. | ||
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Dragom
194 Posts
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MarcoBrei
Brazil66 Posts
Ok, it's possible to do one marauder very close to 2:58, but I noticed that it's required to choose carefully the mineral patches, also build constructions very close to minerals, so it seems the income rate for each SCV is set to very high and travel time for constructions are very low. In more complex build orders you cannot assume the same income rate (because you will have to use all mineral patches) and you cannot assume either so low travel time for workers (space around comand center is limited). *Maybe* it's something to look into (I had no time to test more build orders), it could explain the feeling about some build orders been impossible to do in the suggested time. If SCFusion already consider all these variables then nevermind. In general, looks like macrorush is not extremely optimistic about how build order will be executed as SCFusion, maybe it's just a different approach. About performance, we change some few things to allow paralel processing and the results now are much better. In my tests the speed was improved about 2 to 4 times. Thanks for pointing that something could be improved. Dragom, the software may try to download: 1. Dot.Net Framework, from microsoft. 2. Updates for the application itself, from my host. It's safe, no risky at all. [edit] New version contains also images for zerg and protoss, not only terran! | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On August 08 2011 00:15 MarcoBrei wrote: If SCFusion already consider all these variables then nevermind. It does. It assumes you use the close mineral patches before using the ones further away, but once your SCV count gets higher then obviously you'll be using all the far away ones as well. As for travel times, those too are modelled relatively accurately, depending on what building is being built. most buildings have a travel time of 10s, gas buildings have 2s, CCs/Nexi/Hatches have travel time of 30s. Zerg travel times are about half that as they only have to travel there, not there and back. | ||
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AvengerMind
Brazil1 Post
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Babyschwein
Germany33 Posts
My POV: I like the appearance of Macrorush, it's way easier to understand than other Buildordergenerators I've seen. Something with the code seems to be funny, though. I search for Waypoint 1: 3 sentries, Waypoint 2: 1 Colossus and what I get is this: Makro BO: 6 Pylon 6 Gateway 6 Assimilator 7 Chrono boost - Nexus 7 Cybernetics Core 9 Sentry 11 Assimilator 11 Sentry 14 Sentry 16 Chrono boost - Gateway 18 Robotics facility 18 Pylon 19 Robotics bay 25 Pylon 25 Colossus Time: 9:49 Number of Workers: 19 Macro Score: 27 Power score: 19 And why are there different checkpoints If I cant have a target time? Chekpoint 1: 3 sentries, 1 Colossus would have been the same, right? | ||
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MarcoBrei
Brazil66 Posts
Babyschwein, you can use checkpoint to determine the desired order. If you want to build 1 colossus and after that 3 sentries, you will have to use checkpoints, because if you put all in checkpoint 1 the program will probably give you a BO where the sentries are built before the colossus. New version (released couple days ago) has a little extra performance improvement (I think about 25% better). | ||
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), but I tried my best and still got an unreal time.
