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Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 268

Forum Index > SC2 General
7189 CommentsPost a Reply
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Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5341
It always amazes me how negative people are. The amount of complaints in this thread is amazing lol. Stop watching it if you hate it so much.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5342
Jesus this guy just doesn't stop talking
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5343
On July 22 2011 09:33 Domination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:30 SiguR wrote:
On July 22 2011 09:26 Domination wrote:
"So have you reached out to Mr. Lee"

*2 minutes straight of AG talking*

It's a yes or no question.......


Did you not listen to what he said, and can you not comprehend how it is reasonable that he hasn't?

Not really, because I prefer my Yes or No questions to be answered with a Yes or a No. Feel free to add details afterwards but I want that definitive answer. I'm weird that way.


Then rather than posting something demeaning just to get a cheapshot in, ask here if you couldn't catch on.
Dead girls don't say no.
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5344
On July 22 2011 09:33 Domination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:30 SiguR wrote:
On July 22 2011 09:26 Domination wrote:
"So have you reached out to Mr. Lee"

*2 minutes straight of AG talking*

It's a yes or no question.......


Did you not listen to what he said, and can you not comprehend how it is reasonable that he hasn't?

Not really, because I prefer my Yes or No questions to be answered with a Yes or a No. Feel free to add details afterwards but I want that definitive answer. I'm weird that way.


The definitive answer was no. This is easily deduced if you don't have adhd and LISTEN to what he says.

He used made it longer because he explained WHY he has NOT talked to him yet.
Darkong
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom418 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5345
On July 22 2011 09:30 Antoine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:29 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On July 22 2011 09:28 Yew wrote:
Why couldn't AG just contact Coach Lee and say "hey, we're interested in recruiting one of your players. Puma has shown interest in joining our team and we just wanted to let you know that we have been discussing this" It would have been so much easier for everyone involved instead of basically going behind Lee's back and taking his player.


Because Puma said he'd do it. Puma might have screwed that up a little.

puma said he'd do it after alex already presented his offer to him, and he was weighing the issue (basically decided to take it).

what most of us want to know is why alex didn't contact coach lee before presenting his offer to puma. handing him a business card is fine. presenting an offer is not.

Probably because Puma wasn't contracted so there was nothing, from a legal standpoint, to discuss with TSL as Puma was, essentially, a free agent.
Trolling the Battle.Net forums, the most fun you can have with your pants on.
Krikan
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway520 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 00:36:20
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5346
I can't support AG in this. He should have contacted TSL to show respect for koreans and their culture, period. Now they're just talking about cultural differences and that AG feels that no contract --> free to grab, while Milkis is trying to say that it in korea shit usually works in a different way, where contracts aren't as important. Legally shit was fine, but it wasn't very respectful towards TSL. Overall this will probably lead to koreans not liking EG, and korean teams will contract their players, and be very careful with what happens when they go overseas.
Naniwa on making the MLG finals: Uh, it's ok.
marvin.
Profile Joined August 2010
United States469 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5347
On July 22 2011 09:34 travis wrote:
It always amazes me how negative people are. The amount of complaints in this thread is amazing lol. Stop watching it if you hate it so much.


I think that's what most people were looking to do going into this show.
xN.07)MaK
Profile Joined January 2006
Spain1159 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#5348
On July 22 2011 09:26 InvalidID wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:21 xN.07)MaK wrote:
On July 22 2011 09:16 cskalias.pbe wrote:
All of you are ridiculous. If EG was really trying to be underhanded, they would have made Puma sign already. They could have told him to not talk to the coach at all. They could have prevented this information from reaching the press. They could have done ANY NUMBER of things to keep this a secret until some kind of binding legal arrangement. In fact, if I were a team manager and wanted to sneak a player away, I would be slamming EG for being total fucking idiots about it.

Unpaid player with no contract now has opportunity to get paid for their passion? Victory for starcraft2. More money from outside of korea coming into the scene? Victory for starcraft2.

The only sad thing to me is if the coach was using money from his own pocket to keep this player in the team house. But it is the coach's fault for not enforcing a contract, like EVERY OTHER sport or league of significance. That mistake will not be made again. My biggest fear is that korean teams are now going to their players and saying: "here is a shitty contract where the korean league and the korean team have all the power, take it or never play sc for a korean team". But that is just protectionist bullshit.


Basically you are saying he was in a semi-slave situation, while most people see it as an opportunity to get a piece of the cake of e-sports.

To me, it does not justify how EG approached this.


Heres an example: Lets say you get an unpaid internship in college. You work at that unpaid internship for awhile, and then you get a job offer from another company. The company giving you the internship was technically giving an opportunity to get into the industry, and expending money to do so, and in exchange getting free labor. The other company now wants to pay you for your efforts. Would the other company be obligated to contact your original company? No. Would they in literally any other industry? No.

It is how a free labor market works, and a market that enforces protection from switching companies only hurts the laborers, for the benefit of the companies.


The problem is, TSL and Puma relationship was more of a family than as labor market. Call it Korean culture if you want.

A more accurate example is Football teams with good kids training with them their whole childhood and then one day they get a contract with someone else. It's not this is something bad, but of course it's something that has to be handled very carefully, and IMO at least contact the team prior to the player. Furthermore, at least in Europe, this is controlled by UEFA so the contracting team has to compensate the original team just because the player was in their academy.

This is way more fair than just stealing players (even if they have no contract, they are given a place to practice, food, expenses and full prizes from won tournaments) like EG is doing.
El micro es el último recurso que les queda a los que no producen lo suficiente
Mereel
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany895 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5349
does alex repeat himself like the 20th time now or do i allready sleep?
TPW Mapmaking Team
felizuno
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States164 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5350
On July 22 2011 09:33 Fishriot wrote:
LOL Milkis is using loaded terminology? I'm starting to have a hard time listening to Alex talking in circles.



what are you listening to? Milkis hasn't made a point for ~10 minutes while Alex has been forced to repeat a very simple point over and over like he is talking to a brick wall.
Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5351
--- Nuked ---
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5352
Well I can sum up his last 5 minute rant:

Sign your players if they're valuable to you.
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5353
On July 22 2011 09:34 floor exercise wrote:
Jesus this guy just doesn't stop talking


I think talk shows are a little above your league. Spongebob might be on TV.
Dead girls don't say no.
tooPrime
Profile Joined March 2011
United States245 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5354
Maybe I'm in the minority but I like listening to articulate smart people.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5355
Oh God. Here we go.

This Alex Garfield guy is a piece of work. lmao

He mentions contracts and then says they still talk to players under contract. This is ridiculous.
Juvant
Profile Joined April 2011
United States723 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5356
Get the feeling he's talking about Idra right now.. lol
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5357
I"m conflicted on how I should view puma. On one hand he has every motivation to do everything to further his career in the most meaningful way. One the other hand it seems as though TSL was good to puma and now that he "has it made" he is done with what was a stepping stone of a team.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5358
On July 22 2011 09:31 Yew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:29 Taf the Ghost wrote:
On July 22 2011 09:28 Yew wrote:
Why couldn't AG just contact Coach Lee and say "hey, we're interested in recruiting one of your players. Puma has shown interest in joining our team and we just wanted to let you know that we have been discussing this" It would have been so much easier for everyone involved instead of basically going behind Lee's back and taking his player.


Because Puma said he'd do it. Puma might have screwed that up a little.

It all comes down to Lee and EG not communicating. I'm sure we would have none of this drama if they talked with each other. I'm sure Lee would be fine with Puma going to EG, but he feels betrayed by puma and is mad with EG because nobody told him about this, so it gives him a bad impression of this whole situation.


I think TSL is a bit naive about the business market. That seems to be the big issue, really.

Puma talked to TSL's Coach and they had very, very different take on the conversation.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5359
On July 22 2011 09:34 floor exercise wrote:
Jesus this guy just doesn't stop talking

tbh, on the point he's going on about right now, he actually has a far better point whereas the attempted argument milkis brought up was pretty much entirely a non-point.
Dr.Sin
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 00:36:51
July 22 2011 00:35 GMT
#5360
The question of respect to Mr Lee has been resolved. AG has repeatedly apologized publicly and said that he wanted to apologize personally for this. What more do you want?

I also agree with the previous claim that Mr Lee is mismanaging his team for losing his team members for the reasons he has lost them.
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