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On June 23 2011 08:36 Fries wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:32 theOnslaught wrote:
We bought sc2 because its blizzard, one of the Best game companies, and they still screw up... Just look at Duke Nukem, hyped as shit, alot of people bought it because they though it was going to be awesome, like the first one... what did it turn out to be? a piece of garbage... people pirate for that reason, just as companies might feel ripped off if someone pirates their game, customers feel as ripped off if they pay $50+ usd for a game, and its crap.
Doesn't change the fact that it's theft. If you use someone's product without making an expected payment for said product, it's theft.
The world is unfair like that, you wanna know what narcotraffic exist?, it exists because of the lack of opportunities. You have the USA complaining about mexicans crossing the border first, then, about mexicans and their drug cartels, but you guys never see the big picture. Mexico is a big contry, with alot of people and lack of opportunities, the narcotraffic boomed when mexicans could not cross the border anymore, so the only chance for them to make something for their families was to join the narco. Alot of people in mexico respects the narco more than the gonverment, because they do more for them, and thats the reality we live in.
Now, im not blaming the USA, but you can see how retarded it was for them to support, and make strong China's economy, rather than work on something with mexico, that has alot of people ready to work. Unlike china, Mexican gonverment has allways support the USA gonverment, you think china is going to do the same?, keep dreaming
User was warned for this post
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On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating.
I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. If you pirate it first, and like it, why would you buy it? You already have the full game avaliable indefinitely (as opposed to renting, which also costs money, obviously.). You'll only buy it after for moral reasons, pretty much exactly the same as donating the money, because you don't actually need the game. And let's be honest, basing a business on donations isn't very smart, is it?
As for music, I subscribe to spotify, because for $20 a month (nothing) it's easier and better than pirating.
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The term "This is why we can't have nice things" comes to mind.
I'm not really sure why people are arguing over if lost sales are a good reason or not...it is. You honestly can't expect a company to throw away a chance to make money.
"But adding LAN might increase sales!" Maybe, but if they add LAN there is a 100% chance they will be pirated a ton.
Tell me, though ICCups history how many of the players there do you think actually bought SC1? A nice chunk, no doubt, but don't tell me it was everyone. I'd be willing to bet at least 10% just downloaded it from ICCup before playing the 5/10$ game for hours on end.
This would happen to SC2. It being Pirated isn't in question. It would happen.
It makes sense for them to not add LAN mode. It sucks for the rest of us, but it makes sense. Not that it'll stop people from getting pissed and calling Blizzard the bad guys, though.
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On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating.
I would strongly disagree with pricing being considered as wrong as piracy. Piracy happens whether or not the developer approves of it. Pricing is primarily determined by the market, the consumers willingness to buy the product given the circumstances of the market. Piracy is theft, it may be justified but it is intellectual theft regardless. Pricing gives the consumer a choice of whether or not they want it or not.
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People talking about Piracy back in the times of BW need to remember that it wasn't half as rampant back then and wasn't considered to be anywhere near serious.
In the current climate, I completely agree with the HoN dev: It just simply isn't viable anymore for any developer to provide such a feature (as sad as it is - especially for persons like myself in Australia who can't play SC2 under 180ping).
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Russian Federation949 Posts
Games that people pirate= games they wouldnt buy otherwise. And companies like Valve and Blizzard shouldnt worry about it cause they make awesome games that people WANT to buy.
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On June 23 2011 08:39 yoshi_yoshi wrote:
I can sympathise with the company's POV on this.
But I think on games that are designed to be ESPORTS - SC2 - Blizzard can afford to develop a "LAN-version" of the game that can be configured to connect to a local server rather than the public servers. Then this could be provided to big LAN tournaments that are willing to work directly with Blizzard.
Imagine:
- MLG/Dreamhack/GSL pays Blizzard some fee
- Blizzard shows up and installs SC2 "LAN-version" on the computers
- Blizzard shows up with a dedicated server
- Tournament runs
- Blizzard uninstalls all the "LAN-versions"
Also:
- The LAN-version doesn't need to be anything huge, but instead a patch on top of an existing SC2 instance.
- Not all computers need to be 'patched', only the MAIN stage ones.
I doubt the fees will make up for the extra development cost, but the difference will probably be orders of magnitude less than the sales loss that the OP was talking about.
However, it would be a huge problem if the LAN-version was somehow leaked and fell into the hands of hackers, possibly via a disgruntled employee or some very bold thieves.
Also, I doubt that Blizzard can be everywhere at once. It would probably mean paying for an extra employee or two to travel around with this special "LAN-version" to take time to set it up securely at venues. Considering how slow Blizzard works, I doubt that this can ever happen.
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On June 23 2011 08:42 VirGin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. If you pirate it first, and like it, why would you buy it? You already have the full game avaliable indefinitely (as opposed to renting, which also costs money, obviously.). You'll only buy it after for moral reasons, pretty much exactly the same as donating the money, because you don't actually need the game. And let's be honest, basing a business on donations isn't very smart, is it?
Exactly, I would argue only a small minority of those ethically and supportive individuals exist in comparison to the majority of pirates. From my experiences they are the ones that pirate very little.
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LoL is free and makes money just fine. i don't think piracy is the real factor to not implement a LAN feature.
Torchlight developers know how much their game was pirated and acknowledged that it only helps make their game more popular and allows for a bigger market for Torchlight 2 and their upcoming Torchlight MMO.
Magicka was pirated a lot, then they made a bunch of money from DLC packs and most recently a PvP mode.
if SC2 had LAN, that would be 1 less major complaint about the game that gets brought up at a majority of tournaments. even if exposure at MLG and GSL caused the game to get pirated a ton without many legit customers, it has 2 expansions coming up and incoming DLC.
the OP just makes it seem like the HoN developers don't understand the PC market anymore. Blizzard was really slow to adopt microtransactions with WoW, and whenever they did it made millions. SC2 was also released with a dated model, where they seemed to only care about initial launch sales. they heavily advertised on TV and various Korean markets (McDonald's) and after launch they stopped advertising and had no DLC.
the market is completely different now. SC2 could survive very easily with a low-graphics only, no achievements LAN mode. they could make a ton of money selling skins like the CE Thor that are toggled for bnet games only.
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On June 23 2011 07:14 Erionn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 07:10 mdma-_- wrote:
that still doesnt explain why they cant allow people to play each other in lan with the necessecity of being logged into bnet/whatever online client.
cheap excuse just to blame it on pirates tbh What the hell would be the point of LAN if you had to be logged into Bnet? The entire issue with no LAN is retarded internet problems that tournaments seem to constantly have.
the internet could be used as a way to verify the authenicaty of your game, and perhaps periodicly pings you or something. it would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now.
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On June 23 2011 08:42 Khao wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating. I would strongly disagree with pricing being considered as wrong as piracy. Piracy happens whether or not the developer approves of it. Pricing is primarily determined by the market, the consumers willingness to buy the product given the circumstances of the market. Piracy is theft, it may be justified but it is intellectual theft regardless. Pricing gives the consumer a choice of whether or not they want it or not.
The pricing is wrong because they're not considering that most people is already too tight to have money to spare for entertainment, We're on a global economy crisis, people dont spend money because they dont have it, if we were all rich as fuck, and still, taking things (Like Lindslay lohan), it would be wrong, obviusly. We're not talking about stealing a frikking ferrari here, we're talking about basic entertainment, that can make you better at alot of things in life. RTS for example, are great at making you great at quick thinking, and desicion making. MMORPGS are fantastic at making people good at problem solving, and team play. Games are great training for life, and a great stress relief in a world filled with just bad things.
For anyone to be able to buy, and play games, watchs movies, etc. should be a human right, and priced accordingly.
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On June 23 2011 08:44 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Games that people pirate= games they wouldnt buy otherwise. And companies like Valve and Blizzard shouldnt worry about it cause they make awesome games that people WANT to buy.
Top Pirated PC games on Bit Torrent for 2010
1) Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000)
2) Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000)
3) Mafia 2 (3,240,000)
4) Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000)
5) Starcraft II (3,120,000)
Pretty much everyone on TL fall under the category of people WANTING to buy SC2. But there is also a large group of people unwilling to buy, these numbers are probably quite a bit larger given the date of the source.
Source: http://www.destructoid.com/here-are-bit-torrent-s-top-pirated-games-of-2010-190459.phtml
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On June 23 2011 08:46 eggs wrote:
LoL is free and makes money just fine. i don't think piracy is the real factor to not implement a LAN feature.
Torchlight developers know how much their game was pirated and acknowledged that it only helps make their game more popular and allows for a bigger market for Torchlight 2 and their upcoming Torchlight MMO.
Magicka was pirated a lot, then they made a bunch of money from DLC packs and most recently a PvP mode.
if SC2 had LAN, that would be 1 less major complaint about the game that gets brought up at a majority of tournaments. even if exposure at MLG and GSL caused the game to get pirated a ton without many legit customers, it has 2 expansions coming up and incoming DLC.
the OP just makes it seem like the HoN developers don't understand the PC market anymore. Blizzard was really slow to adopt microtransactions with WoW, and whenever they did it made millions. SC2 was also released with a dated model, where they seemed to only care about initial launch sales. they heavily advertised on TV and various Korean markets (McDonald's) and after launch they stopped advertising and had no DLC.
the market is completely different now. SC2 could survive very easily with a low-graphics only, no achievements LAN mode. they could make a ton of money selling skins like the CE Thor that are toggled for bnet games only.
LoL makes money by microtransactions. Would you be fine if SC2 was free, but you had to pay to be able to play on most maps or even races? Even if you can unlock things with playtime, only the most harcore can get most unlockables. This system just doesn't work for SC2.
Microtransactions with WoW are diferent, they don't even affect the game, they are the same way as HoN does it, not LoL, and LoL wouldn't get the same amount of money by selling skins. WoW is so freaking big it, and this opportunities are not that common, so it works when they do it.
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On June 23 2011 08:10 andeh wrote:
1.6 has lan and you have to be logged into steam to play !
sure, but if you care to spend 3 minutes of your life you'll find a steamless version of cs1.6 no problem.
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i dont know if this has been mentioned before but:
the # given from torrent downloads of any given game, majority of those numbers are people who would not have bought the game to begin with. i think its very saddening if the developers actually saw those numbers and thought "this is the amount of copies we lose to pirates".
when it actually isn't true...
i dont know, thats just me, speaking from my experience and those around me.
different story for music and film.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On June 23 2011 08:48 Khao wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:44 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Games that people pirate= games they wouldnt buy otherwise. And companies like Valve and Blizzard shouldnt worry about it cause they make awesome games that people WANT to buy. Top Pirated PC games on Bit Torrent for 2010 1) Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000) 2) Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000) 3) Mafia 2 (3,240,000) 4) Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000) 5) Starcraft II (3,120,000)Pretty much everyone on TL fall under the category of people WANTING to buy SC2. But there is also a large group of people unwilling to buy, these numbers are probably quite a bit larger given the date of the source. Source: http://www.destructoid.com/here-are-bit-torrent-s-top-pirated-games-of-2010-190459.phtml
Silly, I downloaded a game through a bittorrent because it was faster than through blizzard system (i dont own a hard copy), but i still have a legit copy. Just cause you download a torrent doesnt make you a pirate. I download most games i buy (dont own hard copys) through a torrent and have a legal version still. I now that my gamer friends do the same thing cause its efficient
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On June 23 2011 08:46 eggs wrote:
LoL is free and makes money just fine. i don't think piracy is the real factor to not implement a LAN feature.
That's simply because their business model is vastly different than Blizzards. They make money off of micro-transactions from sale of champions, skills, and other in game items. Blizzard doesn't do this yet, and even when they adjust their business model in HoTS for micro-transactions it will likely not be the majority of their revenue streams. Digital and retail sales make the majority, which piracy affects.
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I believe this came up in the funny pictures thread a little bit ago, it'd be nice if people followed it instead of 99% of piracy resulting in thievery.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 23 2011 07:14 ThePurist wrote:
Microsoft operating systems and office software are two of the biggest pirated softwares and they still make money. This guy tries to act like a realist but he doesn't really have a clue about economics.
The opinions are too pessimistic and overgeneralizes the vast majority of people who purchase games with their hard-earned cash. Pirates don't stop revenue streams pirates were not a consumer in the first place. The assumption that a pirated copy was a sale is flawed imo and his last few personal statements are questionable as I perceive them as a cop-out when his whole opinion was about "simple economics".
That is a completely different issue. Microsoft OS and Office sell so well is because of corporate companies, government branches, educational facilities, and not home users. I'm sure if they wouldn't get their asses sued, they wouldn't buy from Microsoft either.
Windows and Office is used by a lot more people who play HoN or Starcraft 2 as well.
I think you're the one who doesn't understand economics.
If you couldn't pirate something but wanted to play it real bad, you would buy it. Your assumption that if people couldn't pirate it, they just wouldn't play it is flawed too.
sidenote: I also wish we could try out games, there's nothing worse than buying a game, playing about 10 minutes just to figure out you absolutely hate it and want to return the game. But since it's opened, you get about 10$ back, so in essence, you paid 40$ to play a game for 10 minutes.
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On June 23 2011 08:47 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:42 Khao wrote:On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating. I would strongly disagree with pricing being considered as wrong as piracy. Piracy happens whether or not the developer approves of it. Pricing is primarily determined by the market, the consumers willingness to buy the product given the circumstances of the market. Piracy is theft, it may be justified but it is intellectual theft regardless. Pricing gives the consumer a choice of whether or not they want it or not. The pricing is wrong because they're not considering that most people is already too tight to have money to spare for entertainment, We're on a global economy crisis, people dont spend money because they dont have it, if we were all rich as fuck, and still, taking things (Like Lindslay lohan), it would be wrong, obviusly. We're not talking about stealing a frikking ferrari here, we're talking about basic entertainment, that can make you better at alot of things in life. RTS for example, are great at making you great at quick thinking, and desicion making. MMORPGS are fantastic at making people good at problem solving, and team play. Games are great training for life, and a great stress relief in a world filled with just bad things. For anyone to be able to buy, and play games, watchs movies, etc. should be a human right, and priced accordingly.
O.O
The people that make games are not doing it for charity. Same way the people that make beds don't do it because they would just love to give people a good nights sleep. They do it to make money. Is it a human right to have a bed?
It's most certainly not a human right to play games or watch movies.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9880/piracy.png)
