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Canada13407 Posts
On June 01 2011 02:39 Penecks wrote:
- What graphic/misc tweaks do you want to see?
I'll just add a quick 2 cents here, I wish they had some options for the health bars, such as transparency settings or size or something that the user can adjust to make them a little less clumpy looking and chaotic at times.
one thing here: checkbox: enable/disable for zerglings only
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to me it would be better to do it the other way round, name some "not bad" mechanics rather than naming a whole long list of fail mechanics/tweaks/buildings/units. and sometimes its just so hard to name something good..
just because i play starcraft doesnt mean that it is really good, there is just no better and more popular games out there.
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dynamic unit pathing needs to be added in
aoe is weaker than in bw but they are way too strong because of clumping of units
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Immortal for being too niche and just infuriatingly fat. I like the shield mechanic but otherwise hate the unit.
Corruptor for being booooring and so specific.
Raven for having pretty terrible abilities, and being really ugly.
eta: oh how could I forget the marauder! boring buff marine that can't shoot up.
I like pretty much everything else. Including the much maligned collosus. There are at least 5 units that are more boring than the poor collossus but he gets all the stick 
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Remove Colossus.
Suddenly there is room to change tons of other Units because P compositions with Colossus in them are just forcing certain counter units while making other units nearly useless.
Corruptor and Overseer are the most boring units in the game.
Vikings seem only to exist to kill Colossus and Broodlords (thats a little boring, isn't it)...
The Colossus has to much influence on this game.
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Boring Units that make the game unfun
Roaches, Marauders/Vikings, Collosus
Please take these out blizzard. Hydras are so much more interesting than roaches, goliaths would be great for terran and collosus just make the game boring.
Units that need major tweaking
Reaper: Needs some sort of function in the midgame
Ultralisk: Maybe needs some help with the ai so it doesn't retardly hit 1 unit
Carrier: Have you ever seen a carrier in the GSL? I don't remember it. I've used it in team games where people go NR 15. I think the carrier would see a lot more use if terran's didn't blindly make vikings against protoss (for collosus).
Mothership: This seems like a unit which could be interesting, but it's build time and investment means that even in games that last 45 mins it won't see much use.
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To people who want the colloxen gone: what AOE should Protoss get to make up for it? They HAVE to have AOE or marines/roaches/hydra etc will own them, so..
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I think an interesting concept that should make it into the multiplayer is an "excluding" research / upgrade.
What I mean is that one research locking out another option.
For example:
1. Getting Roach speed locks out burrowed movement
2. templar archives unlocks DT + HT, but building one locks out the other
It sounds like the single player zerg campaign is doing something along these lines so I think it would be a way to do something new to the multiplayer.
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I will try to name units that aren't "popular" in the "bad unit list"
- What 3 units in the game need to go into the redesign list?
> Stalkers:
In state of the game tyler stated that protoss would need a "better" harassment unit. Stalkers can be redesigned to fulfill that role (the name and the blink+mobility mechanic is very good at that) instead of being the "core" of a protoss army. Their lack of scaling/raw power I believe is what causes the "colossus problem".
> Queen:
Lay tumors, spawn larva, kill some harassment and block ramps - can even heal! They may be the super defender of zerg early game (esp vs air atks), but is mostly very /shrug mid-late game. I would like to see the queen being able to move away from her rather passive role to a more active one: allow her to be integrated into your main army!
> Sensor towers:
I don't know why anyone haven't mentioned this and that I haven't seen it used to its fullest in competitive play. Good sensor tower placements completely shut down any drops/harass/element of surprised at a ridiculous range.
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The most uninteresting, imo:
1) Corruptor: pure Air to Air with a terrible spell. Zergs only make them against Colossus or obviously for Brood Lords.
2) Ultralisk: Terrible unit that is not worth it's cost. Shadow of it's past form.
3) Archon: Same as the Ultra. Overall bad unit that's not worth it and the intended design of scavenging HTs in the middle of the battle didn't work out.
Units that I like, but need some tweaking:
1) Reaper: The concept is awesome. However, the nerfs made it utterly useless in any serious match.
2) Viking: I like the air to ground dynamic a lot, but I'd like to see it developed into something meaningful, rather than a gimmick.
3) Overseer: I wouldn't agree with all the overlords being detectors again. Protoss and Terran have do invest some resources on detection, so I would hope Zerg to do the same. I'd just like to give corruption better range and make it work on defenses. Also, maybe giving it some of the defensive abilities that the queen had during alpha would be bad.
Regarding mechanics, I'd love to have units spread out, just like there was a thread somewhere in this forums mentioning. This could also mean that splash units can be made more powerful too. Also, I wish they pretty much changed the economy as Lalush mentioned in his article. There's little point going past 3-4 bases and there's too much supply attached to workers.
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On June 01 2011 02:52 Yaotzin wrote:
To people who want the colloxen gone: what AOE should Protoss get to make up for it? They HAVE to have AOE or marines/roaches/hydra etc will own them, so..
What about a unit that needs at least a little micro to be effective and isn't just some kind of Supersiegetank (nearly all his strenghts, nearly no of it's weaknesses except no aa).
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On June 01 2011 02:52 Yaotzin wrote:
To people who want the colloxen gone: what AOE should Protoss get to make up for it? They HAVE to have AOE or marines/roaches/hydra etc will own them, so..
ehm you have storm and forcefield atm, but lets not make this thread a balance whine thread.
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Units I'd like to see replaced/changed:
- Maurader
Makes Terran un-interesting as it is too multi-purpose. Terran had more character in BW because it was a "positional" race which was extremely powerful when "set-up" but lacked mobility.
Terran needs Mech buffs and the Maurader needs to be altered/replaced.
- Collosi
Such a boring 1a unit.
If we need to keep it, make it slower and have a "setup" time like a siege tank.
I'd rather change it than remove it since it is a cool looking unit and the cliff walking thing is neat.
- Zergling
This unit needs to have an upgrade that allows it to run down cliffs from high ground. It would strengthen Zergs "mobility/surround" characteristics.
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I believe the Colossi were originally intended to be a high-risk, high-reward type of unit that excels at killing units with low hitpoints but takes lots of damage itself from both ground and air; however what we have now is a walking building that burns everything that's not flying. At least Colossi offers positional play, by trying to flank it, or getting them separated from the main army. I think that people try to point them out as fail design, and be worst than it actually is, because they're so popular, and that templar tech sucks rather.
As for my fail designs choice:
#1: The Corruptor, Blizzard themselves admitted it was a fail by removing its initial concept altogether! Once the concept was dumped, the same should be done with this unit. Giving it a spell that increases damage it just not enough. It's also too slow to feel 'zergy'.
#2: The Mothership, I agree with other people on this one, should've stayed in the single-player and lore. It's a very cool idea, but impractical
#3: the MULE, I never liked the weird looking super-SCV, with the sole purpose of its existence...to give you moar minerals? Yes, I know it can be a mobile technician you called to repair your car on the tollway, but still, it didn't seem that interesting to me. Although, most people accepted its place in the game. I would be interesting if Terran had a different macro-mechanics, but I guess this is too late now.
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As far as Zerg goes, I find the corruptor completely dull. I hope they rework it. Also the hydra is kinda boring compared to its BW counterpart (not sure why).
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A lot of people are talking about the marauder and the reaper as being units that needs to be changed, and I completely agree. The problem right now seems to be that the marauder is way too useful... It does a huge amount of damage to armored armies as well as structures. The real problem is the damage to structures, especially combined with stim. It should be the function of the reaper to be the building sniper.
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On June 01 2011 02:57 mistgun_EU wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 02:52 Yaotzin wrote:
To people who want the colloxen gone: what AOE should Protoss get to make up for it? They HAVE to have AOE or marines/roaches/hydra etc will own them, so.. ehm you have storm and forcefield atm, but lets not make this thread a balance whine thread.
Storm yes, but I don't think it would be interesting if Protoss is forced to go templar every single game. It would be like going collo every game, except there literally would be zero other options. At least now one can transition out of collo..
FF helps, but it has its limits. The *only* reason stuff like pure marine/hydra doesn't work is because of aoe.
This isn't about balance, it's about design. Units like marines scale incredibly well with numbers. Either the opposition needs a unit that scales just as well, or they need aoe. You can't buff gateway units or gateway pushes are imba because of warpgates. So aoe it is.
What about a unit that needs at least a little micro to be effective and isn't just some kind of Supersiegetank (nearly all his strenghts, nearly no of it's weaknesses except no aa).
I disagree that collo don't require micro, but regardless. What then? A siege tank that isn't a Protoss siege tank?
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On June 01 2011 02:02 Crawler wrote:
Top 3 most uninteresting units in my opinion are:
1. Corruptor
2. Overseer
3. Colossus
(tbh I like every single unit in sc2 and bw but if you really want 3 units then maybe these are a bit less interesting and could use some changes)
Remove:
1) Marauder slow
2) Sentry ff
3) Infestor fungal
Agree with everything here. FG should be 100 energy and more of a plague for bio. where it won't kill you but leave you with 1hp. And no hold
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Oh yeah I totally forgot about the Ultralisk (I wonder why..), it obviously needs to be changed/replaced.
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On June 01 2011 02:57 mistgun_EU wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 02:52 Yaotzin wrote:
To people who want the colloxen gone: what AOE should Protoss get to make up for it? They HAVE to have AOE or marines/roaches/hydra etc will own them, so.. ehm you have storm and forcefield atm, but lets not make this thread a balance whine thread.
(it's essentially four, going on five, pages of balance whine as it is)
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EPT
