|
On May 26 2011 02:16 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:04 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:41 dunc wrote:On May 25 2011 22:22 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote:
These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players. There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings. World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage( for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.) I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player. Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means? Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased. MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous. And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass. Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month. You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month. If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results).
The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
|
United States23455 Posts
On May 26 2011 02:36 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
i'm curious. is this for april or may? cause may has not ended yet.
This is an overall opinion.This is who you think the top fifteen players are right now in the GSL. You can look on past performances in the past year if you want, but it's all up to you. This isn't a monthly thing and more of a look in to see how the SC2 community sees and places the players in the GSL, so it's not just a singular month you're looking at.
Also thanks for everyone, again (for like the 100th time), on all your lists that you've sent in. I will give more stats later when I calculate a substantial amount.
|
France12904 Posts
On May 26 2011 02:51 ditkaordie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:16 antilyon wrote:On May 26 2011 02:04 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:41 dunc wrote:On May 25 2011 22:22 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote:
These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players. There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings. World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage( for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.) I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player. Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means? Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased. MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous. And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass. Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month. You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month. If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time. You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results). The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
And this last month InCa advanced to the final, does it make him the 2nd best player & best protoss?
MC this last month fell to the Up&Down matches and has only beaten Ryung... and is still the best protoss / player.
|
On May 26 2011 03:01 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:51 ditkaordie wrote:On May 26 2011 02:16 antilyon wrote:On May 26 2011 02:04 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:41 dunc wrote:On May 25 2011 22:22 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote:
These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players. There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings. World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage( for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.) I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player. Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means? Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased. MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous. And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass. Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month. You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month. If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time. You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results). The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S. And this last month InCa advanced to the final, does it make him the 2nd best player & best protoss? MC this last month fell to the Up&Down matches and has only beaten Ryung... and is still the best protoss / player.
Where are you going with this? If I were to do rankings today InCa wouldnt be in my top 15 and MC would still be my number 2 behind Nestea
|
When you post the final list could you also tell us some of the extremes such as lowest rank on a list that MC got? Or number of lists that didn't include player X (the guy who didn't put MKP in his top ten piqued my curiosity).
|
On May 26 2011 02:51 ditkaordie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:16 antilyon wrote:On May 26 2011 02:04 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:41 dunc wrote:On May 25 2011 22:22 ditkaordie wrote:On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote:
These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players. There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings. World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage( for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.) I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player. Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means? Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased. MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous. And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass. Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month. You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month. If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time. You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results). The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
Now i see what you meant, that's a valid point.
|
United States23455 Posts
On May 26 2011 03:12 TheDougler wrote:
When you post the final list could you also tell us some of the extremes such as lowest rank on a list that MC got? Or number of lists that didn't include player X (the guy who didn't put MKP in his top ten piqued my curiosity).
Sure. 
Keep sending in the rankings, people.
|
Excellent, I look forward to the next update
|
1. Nestea
2. MC
3. MVP
+ Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
|
United States23455 Posts
On May 26 2011 15:06 TheDougler wrote:
Excellent, I look forward to the next update
Probably will be at the end of tonight's GSL Super Tournament.
Also if there any artists, get in contact with me as well.
|
On May 26 2011 15:17 Novalisk wrote:1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP + Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
I love HuK but why does he and Keen make the list when Jinro does not?
|
United States23455 Posts
Just got the 100th ranking. Thanks a lot guys, but I want a lot more. Still going to be open for another few days.
Really enjoying all the comments and opinions!
|
On May 27 2011 02:42 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 15:17 Novalisk wrote:1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP + Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
I love HuK but why does he and Keen make the list when Jinro does not?
People who put HuK in the top 15 of Korea really aren't interested in your words or logic.
|
On May 27 2011 02:42 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 15:17 Novalisk wrote:1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP + Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
I love HuK but why does he and Keen make the list when Jinro does not?
Neither HuK or Jinro are anywhere near top 15 material atm
|
On May 27 2011 07:55 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 02:42 TheDougler wrote:On May 26 2011 15:17 Novalisk wrote:1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP + Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
I love HuK but why does he and Keen make the list when Jinro does not? Neither HuK or Jinro are anywhere near top 15 material atm
You're entitled to your opinion, I think that the super tourny will prove you wrong however. Only time will tell.
|
Will outliers be discounted? haha
|
United States23455 Posts
On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Will outliers be discounted? haha
Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another.
|
On May 27 2011 13:43 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Will outliers be discounted? haha Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another.
Well, it is a fan power rank, so there should be a lot of variation I guess.
GSL Super Tournament Spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +so glad I didn't put MC top 3, after todays games, yet I think the longer you let people vote, the more will the Super Tournament influence everyones opinion :S
To everybody: SIT DOWN, THINK OF 15 PLAYERS AND SEND FIONN A PM!
|
On May 26 2011 15:17 Novalisk wrote:1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP + Show Spoiler +
4. Bomber
5. MarineKingPrime
6. Nada
7. July
8. Inca
9. Losira
10. sC
11. MMA
12. DongRaeGoo
13. AnyPro
14. Keen
15. HuK
The last two is in for their epic ceremony, eh? ;-)
|
On May 27 2011 23:36 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:43 Fionn wrote:On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Will outliers be discounted? haha Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another. Well, it is a fan power rank, so there should be a lot of variation I guess. GSL Super Tournament Spoiler: + Show Spoiler +so glad I didn't put MC top 3, after todays games, yet I think the longer you let people vote, the more will the Super Tournament influence everyones opinion :S To everybody: SIT DOWN, THINK OF 15 PLAYERS AND SEND FIONN A PM!
+ Show Spoiler +I think MC is still top 3, I could see him beating either MVP or Nestea actually. I could I suppose see Nestea, Alicia and MC being the top three. whereas MC can hold his own in all his matchups but underestimated his opponent this time.
Edit: But yeah the longer this is left open the more skewed it's gonna be by the super tournament.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
