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[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 156

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Cross.
Profile Joined March 2011
45 Posts
November 17 2011 00:39 GMT
#3101
On November 17 2011 09:12 monXikk wrote:
http://pl.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/300112891

Thank you so much. Any idea how to get this in the future?
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 00:46:59
November 17 2011 00:43 GMT
#3102
On November 17 2011 09:39 Cross. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 09:12 monXikk wrote:
http://pl.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/300112891

Thank you so much. Any idea how to get this in the future?

http://twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
Click under the video player a small "VIDEOS" on the left.
Every show is archived there automatically, even if it's not always properly named, it will be there. You can easily see if the vod you want is there cause it's indicated "XX hours ago".
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
November 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#3103
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


I can't separate execution and strategy as easily as you. For me to attribute a build to a player, he has to execute it at the highest level of play. If this wasn't the case, then we'd have to rename the Bisu Build the "RandomNewbieFrom1999" build.

As far as I know, nobody else used FE Corsair DT as an every game strategy at the highest level of play before Bisu. Thus, he invented the build.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 17 2011 01:15 GMT
#3104
On November 16 2011 12:52 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


Bisu may not be the sole innovator of the PvZ style he used back in 2007 to detheone Savior but his style TODAY is unlike anything else we have seen in the past or present. To call Bisu stupid (as Idra had done in the past) and a player who only gets by on mechanics is extremely disrespectful and completely untrue.

Next he said Jaedong also isn't an innovator. As a former zerg I expect you to call him out on this Geoff since that simply isn't true. Jaedong changed the way zergs looked at ZvP with his 3 hatch spire > 5 hatch. Just that alone is pretty borderline of all the improvements Jaedong highhandedly to all zerg matchups.

Honestly innovation isn't just about creating something even if it fails. People call Destiny innovative but it isn't like he was the first person on Earth to make almost only pure infestor, he was just the first to make it work at the top level. Bisu made Sair/DT builds work against modern day zerg players and it then became the defacto build in the matchup. But I guess that doesn't qualify him as an innovator because DaezanG did it in some practice games beforehand? That's silly.


in theory you're right, you're just wrong about the details. professional players used both the builds you mentioned with success in televised games before bisu and jaedong made them popular, they just did them a lot better.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 17 2011 01:16 GMT
#3105
On November 17 2011 10:10 -_- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


I can't separate execution and strategy as easily as you. For me to attribute a build to a player, he has to execute it at the highest level of play. If this wasn't the case, then we'd have to rename the Bisu Build the "RandomNewbieFrom1999" build.

As far as I know, nobody else used FE Corsair DT as an every game strategy at the highest level of play before Bisu. Thus, he invented the build.

they couldnt do it every game because they couldnt do it well enough to not have significant holes in their play, that doesnt mean he invented it
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
November 17 2011 01:23 GMT
#3106
additionally I have no idea how that logic works.. a man invents basketball and someone else plays it better.. and popularizes it so that means they invented it? No.. that isn't how things work.

I'm going to blow your mind here as well: Steve Jobs didn't invent the iPhone O_O
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
November 17 2011 01:25 GMT
#3107
On November 17 2011 10:10 -_- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


I can't separate execution and strategy as easily as you. For me to attribute a build to a player, he has to execute it at the highest level of play. If this wasn't the case, then we'd have to rename the Bisu Build the "RandomNewbieFrom1999" build.

As far as I know, nobody else used FE Corsair DT as an every game strategy at the highest level of play before Bisu. Thus, he invented the build.

I'm pretty sure the 'bisu build' involves more than just FEing and making Corsairs and DTs.
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
November 17 2011 01:44 GMT
#3108
On November 17 2011 10:16 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:10 -_- wrote:
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


I can't separate execution and strategy as easily as you. For me to attribute a build to a player, he has to execute it at the highest level of play. If this wasn't the case, then we'd have to rename the Bisu Build the "RandomNewbieFrom1999" build.

As far as I know, nobody else used FE Corsair DT as an every game strategy at the highest level of play before Bisu. Thus, he invented the build.

they couldnt do it every game because they couldnt do it well enough to not have significant holes in their play, that doesnt mean he invented it

Bisu wasn't an inventor. He was a Revolutionist. He took a fairly obvious concept (use corsairs to kill detection) and executed it perfectly (move in with dts and have funnnn ^^). Hell, I remember trying this too before I even knew there was a progaming scene. It made sense to me (granted I did it on 1 base with my gosu 30 apm at that time lol) but Bisu made it a viable strategy at the top level of play.

Same actually goes for July actually. Muta micro was actually around before he did it (don't remember who came up with it, but it wasn't july haha). He just popularized it.

I just don't like how idra 'pshed' bisu Hes so cute.
Jaedong.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 17 2011 01:48 GMT
#3109
On November 17 2011 10:44 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:16 IdrA wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:10 -_- wrote:
On November 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:49 figq wrote:
On November 16 2011 10:27 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Calls Bisu an innovator - gets shut down. Hard.
Well it's kind of true, that what Bisu did was rather making a build viable, when nobody thought it was, because of his superior mechanics. He's not inventor of the build itself, but is the one to perfect and make it work.

But at the same token - we could have many of those in SC2 too. There are so many builds that seem unreasonable at the moment, but in the hands of the gods could become suddenly possible and powerful, because they execute them so well.


We recognized he made it popular but he did not invent the build which is what the caller was asking about...


I can't separate execution and strategy as easily as you. For me to attribute a build to a player, he has to execute it at the highest level of play. If this wasn't the case, then we'd have to rename the Bisu Build the "RandomNewbieFrom1999" build.

As far as I know, nobody else used FE Corsair DT as an every game strategy at the highest level of play before Bisu. Thus, he invented the build.

they couldnt do it every game because they couldnt do it well enough to not have significant holes in their play, that doesnt mean he invented it

Bisu wasn't an inventor. He was a Revolutionist. He took a fairly obvious concept (use corsairs to kill detection) and executed it perfectly (move in with dts and have funnnn ^^). Hell, I remember trying this too before I even knew there was a progaming scene. It made sense to me (granted I did it on 1 base with my gosu 30 apm at that time lol) but Bisu made it a viable strategy at the top level of play.

Same actually goes for July actually. Muta micro was actually around before he did it (don't remember who came up with it, but it wasn't july haha). He just popularized it.

I just don't like how idra 'pshed' bisu Hes so cute.

ya they both popularized things that other people, other progamers, were already doing.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 02:06:02
November 17 2011 02:04 GMT
#3110
Seems like most of the credit always goes to the first person to do it on TV, in a good match, and have it work out like they wanted to. Just the nature of the game, at least for spectators. Insiders will know most of what happened, while outsiders won't.

Ultimately, people just have to accept that Bisu won and was able to pull that stuff off because he was really, really good. It's not like you can just run a build in BW (or even Starcraft 2 by this point) and get really deep into tournaments.
Durn
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada360 Posts
November 17 2011 02:12 GMT
#3111
I tend to agree with IdrA on this one. Bisu was able to make that build fully playable at that level because of his mechanics. His ability to control filled the holes that the build had in other player's hands.

Did anyone watch Tyler on EU last week when he was fighting his way up from Plat/Diamond? He was doing some pretty crazy shit and was making it look super feasible, almost unbeatable (the phoenix/obs/DT PvP style). Now, if I took that onto the ladder (Platinum), I would get crushed 90% of the games.

This concept applies to Bisu's mechanics being so far above everyone else's who had tried that build.
"Even if I lose 100 games, that's 100 different arrows pointing me in the wrong direction." - Sean Day[9] Plott
Cross.
Profile Joined March 2011
45 Posts
November 17 2011 03:40 GMT
#3112
On November 17 2011 09:43 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 09:39 Cross. wrote:
On November 17 2011 09:12 monXikk wrote:
http://pl.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/300112891

Thank you so much. Any idea how to get this in the future?

http://twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
Click under the video player a small "VIDEOS" on the left.
Every show is archived there automatically, even if it's not always properly named, it will be there. You can easily see if the vod you want is there cause it's indicated "XX hours ago".

Oh k, it wasn't there until recently then. Thought there was some way to get it before it showed up here maybe (the delay for this episode was ~ 16 hours? Dont know what causes it to be longer or shorter from the time of original air date).
Vinck
Profile Joined December 2010
England20 Posts
November 17 2011 04:04 GMT
#3113
A huge personal thanks to Greg for using a different headset. Having him and Machine/Incontrol on the same show always had that really bad echo which was never too much to handle, (And when DJWheat was home I think he did a good job muting his mic whenever he wasn't talking, but not always) however it's amazingly satisfying not having that any more. You know, was really kinda hard to ignore once it started to kick in; so thanks to Greg (or whoever prompted him to change it and more likely to read this).

Cheers dudes!
Gogo London Barcraft! http://www.facebook.com/LondonBarcraft
busbarn
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden984 Posts
November 17 2011 08:33 GMT
#3114
You used to be so fast with the mp3 uploads, now they appear a week later and it's no point to listen to them. I haven't heard a fresh ITG/LO3 in months and it makes my everyday life tougher
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
November 17 2011 09:03 GMT
#3115
On November 17 2011 04:04 BioGenie wrote:
is it just me or was the current "lastest" ISTG podcast / bliptv upload cut short?


yea, the itunes podcast was cut short at 1:09:08 when Painuser was answering the inControl question

Put quote here for readability
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
November 17 2011 16:47 GMT
#3116
So aside from Itunes what's the best way to get this mp3? Lately all the mp3s are up a week or 2 late and are sometimes only half the show.

oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 17 2011 21:09 GMT
#3117
invention involves not merely doing something but doing that something to great effect. so the first dude to successfullly rape face with a strat can be called the inventor pretty fairly.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
djfoxmccloud
Profile Joined July 2011
France185 Posts
November 17 2011 21:16 GMT
#3118
On November 17 2011 10:23 iNcontroL wrote:


I'm going to blow your mind here as well: Steve Jobs didn't invent the iPhone O_O


Actually he is noted as one of the inventor in the biggest iPhone patent :/
Philosophy
Profile Joined May 2010
186 Posts
November 17 2011 21:31 GMT
#3119
On November 18 2011 06:16 djfoxmccloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 10:23 iNcontroL wrote:


I'm going to blow your mind here as well: Steve Jobs didn't invent the iPhone O_O


Actually he is noted as one of the inventor in the biggest iPhone patent :/


Steve Jobs just stole things and put them in a pretty case. Ask Xerox about it.
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
November 17 2011 21:43 GMT
#3120
On November 18 2011 06:31 Philosophy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2011 06:16 djfoxmccloud wrote:
On November 17 2011 10:23 iNcontroL wrote:


I'm going to blow your mind here as well: Steve Jobs didn't invent the iPhone O_O


Actually he is noted as one of the inventor in the biggest iPhone patent :/


Steve Jobs just stole things and put them in a pretty case. Ask Xerox about it.

iPhotocopier????
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