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On March 10 2011 08:33 Chicane wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2011 08:15 te3l wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 07:55 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:
I think she's definitely improved while casting Code A. Quite frankly I think her analysis and game sense are quite good, the only thing holding her back is her accent, and it's not even that tough to understand.
Everyone flaming her should feel like an asshole. Imagine if you went to cast GSL in Korean and the members of Teamliquid, who represent the SC2 community, flamed you because of your pronunciation. If you look at the important parts of casting, namely the actual discussion of the game, she did a good job. To me that's what matters most, but I guess people feel differently. It isn't just the SC2 community, its her OWN community that flamed her. That's what is truly sad. Can you imagine going moving to a country to go for a job only to have everyone hate you and insult you because you do something different? I found her commentary to be interesting and she was quick to announce when things were building. While she did make mistakes at time predicting builds and judging battles, at least she made an effort. The role models of this community need to become actual role models, yes you are human and yes you can have your fun but certain people who are highly looked up upon in e-sports need to rethink how they act in front of thousands of viewers. I think this whole situation got blown out of proportions. Good luck Kelly on your future endeavors. I hope you become successful sometime in the future for your commentaries. I am really getting annoyed by these kind of comments. Let me give an exaggerated example to make it more clear why. Imagine someone at GOM picked up some random poor Chinese guy with a family who could barely speak English and knew almost nothing about Starcraft 2 to cast for them. He is hard to understand and his insight of the game is non existant. So what happens next? People on TL complain about it. After a week or so they get rid of him and then this is where someone like you comes in. "You should be ashamed of yourselves! This man is a Chinese, yet even other Chinese are flaming him. Plus he is poor and has a family so that would be terrible to have him lose his job. How will he support them? Could you imagine moving to another country in order to try to support your family, just to end up having everyone complain about you? I mean yeah, he doesn't have much insight, but at least he made an effort!" Do you see why that argument is not a good one? I am not even speaking for or against Kelly now (and I am definitely not insulting her skills) but you can't just appeal to her personal life. Many people here are paying customers, and if they simply don't like how someone is doing their job at a prestigious company like GOM, then they are allowed to say so. No one is defending outright hate, but no one should be ashamed for anything. Going back to my example, people are entitled to say "Whoa what is this? This guy is terrible... he has no insight and I can't understand half of what he says. They should get rid of him" without looking like jerks because he is having a tough time personally. I was hoping to get the message across in a stronger way, but I still think I at least got the job done .
I agree with your point, but not your delivery. This kind of delivery is what make some people thing the community as a group is xenophobic or sexist or anything other than voicing opinions about some individual not being a caster.
I will say to the actual matter, if the caster is good, then s/he will not need any sort of affirmative action and vice versa.
By the way, tasteless has a lot, a lot, a lot more game knowledge than you think. He plays the play-by-play role and he play it well. If he isn't playing that role, we won't be as appreciative of Artosis as we are now
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My question is, did they make it clear to Kelly they wanted to "try out" other people beforehand? If not, I personally would be really pissed to lose my dream job suddenly after just one month
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kelly > doa BY FAR
User was warned for this post
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On March 10 2011 07:04 Sprouter wrote:
I'm going to be really annoyed if she had to leave because the community acted like a toddler because a girl with an unfamiliar accent was casting
Are we not allowed to give our feedback? If not us who? If the community does not like her casting GOM should know and they should be given the chance to make improvements. It would be much worse for GOM and ESPORTS if people just stopped watching code A because they didn't like the commentary.
We are not acting like toddlers, this is the premier starcraft 2 league that we all care about and one that many of you stay up to the wee hours of the morning to watch every other day. It is because we don't want to be pushed to a position where we are forced to mute the stream to enjoy our favourite players playing that we are so vocal about it. Could we be more mature about it? Sure, but our point still stands. That many of us disliked her casting.
Also the reasons I (and I imagine the others also) complain about her commentary on teamliquid is because firstly it is convenient and secondly because I know the people from GOM actually read the comments posted on teamliquid and might do something about it. Let us hope GOM will be able to find a casting duo for code A that will one day rival the casting awesomeness that is Tastosis.
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On March 10 2011 08:37 Subversion wrote:
I think our reactions were pretty immature, but in terms of real criticism, her accent was a little grating to listen to, and her game knowledge is really poor for this level.
We need people who really really know what they're talking about, not platinum players. This isn't meant offensively, its just my honest opinion.
Kelly has done a lot of casting and will continue to do so with this exposure. But I don't think GOM is the place for her.
I think its really silly to say, "ahhh cut her some slack, she tried really hard!" That doesn't make any sense. You hire people based on how good they are. If GOM wants to be the premier Starcraft tournament in the world, they need the best commentators they can get. Someone with pretty poor game knowledge does not adequately fulfill a role as a pro-level commentator.
Why should we settle for less than Tastetosis just because its Code A? We shouldn't. If GOM wants to be the best, they must get the best. And I'm really sorry, but kelly is not that.
My thoughts exactly.
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I'm a little disappointed to see this, because I think she was improving, and she had serious potential after she figured some minor things out like the fact that when she gets excited, she talks faster and her accent becomes heavier in result. I think that if she had calmed down a bit she would've done even better. I hope they give her another shot once in a while because her point of view was interesting. I think DOA is trying to be Nick too much, which can get to be a little old considering Nick Plott is only Nick Plott, and rather difficult to replicate. I am interested to see who else goes up there. I would off the record admit I think it would be fun, and anyone who can take the opportunity should definitely do it...it would be a great experience for anyone, even if it was a single season.
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On March 10 2011 08:09 blk.man.smart wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 07:51 -Archangel- wrote:
You know what people are really good at?
Deluding themselves. Almost nobody will ever admit openly that they are at fault for something but there is always someone else or something else to blame.
I am sure in her mind it was easier to blame others then herself. If she was black I am sure she would blame white people... As someone who is black I find this comment extremely ignorant and inappropriate.
Well, people outside USA learn about USA mostly from movies (at least until we start to read stuff on our own). And in the movies black people complaining about the world and blaming it on white people is really prevalent (at least it was when I was growing up).
I didn't really mean anything by this, it just popped in my mind as a showing that people will blame anything other then themselves for their mistakes or failures even something as stupid as race (in anthropology there are no races of humans and that is why I called it stupid) or gender.
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Her accent was to thick for my liking imo... She had great thoughts just not great timings... "he took his guys off gas must be a zergling all in" ummm Tasteless " uhhh he expanded like 45 seconds ago"
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On March 10 2011 08:32 Grumbels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think in some way people expect too much of casters. The two highest profile tournament casters are perhaps Artosis and Day[9], people that clearly think about the game on a deep strategic level. They work on their play outside casting, talk and think a lot about various issues related to it, so as a result they can work those ideas into their casts. Result is the casts have a greater density of noteworthy things said in them, and they become enjoyable. (This goes for other popular casters too, such as DJWheat, iNcontrol and Chill)
Contrast this with a random caster who just commentates on the game in a play-by-play fashion and you'll see why it's just more exciting to watch. It's not just the deep strategical analysis (which is nice to have), but just a level of thinking about all aspects related to the game (for example player psychology) that shows they put a lot of thought into it.
In football (soccer), which is sort of my frame of reference for commentating, you will have commentary that is just about conveying emotion, excitement. Real analysis is saved for the breaks or for after the game, and special people are brought in for that; there isn't the expectation that one person can have both a radiant personality to draw in viewers as well as high level analytical skills.
I feel they could easily apply this to Starcraft II. Not necessarily that exact division in roles, but the idea that you base your broadcast around the "exciting caster person".
Just an example with what they could do: take someone like doa and let him do play by play and then hire Jinro/Idra/random pro to sit next to him for doa to ask questions to. Alternatively, have some kind of production where you discuss the games afterwards and then have a professional player to commentate on the strategies used, showing graphs, stats, buildorder charts, replay parts of the game.
Another idea would be to just "write" material for a caster. It's easy enough to help him prepare for a broadcast by coming up with discussion topics to fill time, you could prepare some banter, think of puns beforehand and so on. This already happens, of course, but point would be to actually hire someone for it. (just as talk shows have writers).
My post is a bit muddled, but I hope it's clear. The goal would be to professionalize starcraft II casting to go beyond the idea that you hire someone and just hope he's talented enough to entertain the audience by himself, actually creating some sort of production staff to aid him.
A point well taken. Given my more than occasional tirades on the quality of (American) football commentary, namely the lack of strategic or meaningful analysis, I feel obliged to point out that the type of game being commentated matters quite a bit. Consider the contrast between football and football: one game goes on continuously with very few breaks, one breaks after every play. I wish I could hear a lot more strategic analysis while watching the NFL, but the commentary simply isn't to that depth.
Now what do we make of a game like SC2? Games can be very fast paced, some are slower paced, more amenable to strategic analysis. In this sense SC2 presents a challenge if you're looking for casters that can provide in-depth analysis at proper moments and faced paced excitement at others.
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I will always <3 you Kelly
good luck with what ever you pursue in the future 
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i'm glad to hear that there is actually a rational decision making process behind the caster hiring. i didn't like her and i wouldn't have liked to be stuck with her if there were better casters which i think there are, but at least GOM is taking the approach which will come to figure out if that's truly the case
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I think swapping in additional casters is a great idea.
I only wish they'd do it a little quicker, so we could find the best of the best faster.
Week 1, Caster A and B
Week 2, Caster B and C
Week 3, Caster C and D
etc
Would be fantastic imo! 2 weeks is plenty of time for a trial run, and each caster gets to cast with 2 people during their trial, so better chance to find chemistry/avoid bad chemistry.
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nice girl. i think her thick accent hurt her and her well lack of knowledge about the game. it prevented her from being a play by play or being an analyst. its too bad. i'm sure she will suceed in any avenue of life that she pursues
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they're beta testing casters, nobody got anybody fired lol. I don't really like her casting though, not a very caster friendly voice imo, sometimes i cant make out words. this doa guy is fantastic though, voice is great and knowledge seems ok.
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On March 10 2011 08:48 FroZen(-_-) wrote:
Her accent was to thick for my liking imo... She had great thoughts just not great timings... "he took his guys off gas must be a zergling all in" ummm Tasteless " uhhh he expanded like 45 seconds ago" Yeah thoughts like "He is newer to starcraft so he has the powah." ... being totally serious and not explaining any further.
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Good riddance. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but she wasn't cut out for the job. Thats just my personal opinion. Hope Moletrap comes at me now.
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As a GOM ticket-holder personally I avoided watching Code A because:
I had trouble understanding Kelly.
There were quite few awkward moments, especially with Tasteless.
Her casting was frankly a bit of a mess.
Good decision by GOM.
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I love the "discussion" in this thread.
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On March 10 2011 08:46 Hikko wrote:
My question is, did they make it clear to Kelly they wanted to "try out" other people beforehand? If not, I personally would be really pissed to lose my dream job suddenly after just one month
Considering that she said on the 24th of Feb, 8 days after she had arrived, that she was leaving on the 17th March, it would be unlikely they didn't tell her, and when Moletrap announced he was going to Korea, he also said it was for "2 to 3 weeks", so he was obviously made aware before leaving how long it would be for.
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I think she did a nice job for the small amount of time she actually had to develop.. I hope DOA does well but i would rather them keep kelly
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EPT
