• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:22
CEST 15:22
KST 22:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week2[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation14$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL68
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 1 - Final Week Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 677 users

Consequences of a Larger Map Size - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
jamesmax
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada72 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 09:36:40
January 19 2011 09:34 GMT
#81
On January 19 2011 18:11 Frugalicious wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On January 19 2011 18:02 jamesmax wrote:
If your sc name is the same as this your stats are enough to discredit yourself, please move on before commenting anymore.


You have posted nothing but your subjective opinion and false information along with poorly articulated arguments. Why do you even bother to post? Also, you are derailing the topic due to your pettiness and ignorance.

On Topic:
Zerg have the insane mobility to take advantage of the vast spaces in these new maps and the limited early harassment options affected by the new maps will only further push it into a passive macro game. Though it seems Zerg favored, perhaps the GSL is trying to balance the overall results? If there exist T favored maps and P favored maps, perhaps there should be a balance of more Z favored maps? A compilation of neutral maps and race favored maps is perhaps their aim? Though without a counter-pick system, it doesn't seem as strategic and more luck based when it comes to the map selections for the GSL.

If I recall correctly, didn't some of the BW leagues create race favored maps to balance the results of the match-ups?


Couldn't care less if they nerfed zerg bring on larger maps. Not that I think any of the races are largely imba I don't care for balance at all I just want better maps. All my information is not false why don't you learn to play?
I am a constructor, what is army?
[Eternal]Phoenix
Profile Joined December 2010
United States333 Posts
January 19 2011 09:36 GMT
#82
This is the kind of incorrect reasoning which leads to crappy balance/maps in the first place. I cannot disagree with the OP enough on this issue.

OP: You say that zerg can pump drones all day in response to attacks and that these maps are zerg imbalanced. I'm going to show that that's completely 100% incorrect.

First and foremost:
-Your assumptions rest on the fact that zerg will outeco and outmacro T and P.
-You believe that Z automatically wins in larger macro games where T and P cannot be super aggressive early
-Your argument is entirely based on the idea that if T and P are aggressive that Z will have enough time to drone up to crush the attack.

Lets tackle these 1 by 1 shall we:

Zerg will outeco and outmacro T and P. WRONG!


While zerg does have the ability to make large amounts of drones, it does not do so very well until 2 hatch/2 queen are out. In addition, zerg production is bursty, so while it seems like they can drone up a ton at once, in reality they're not droning up any more than a 5 hatch hydra build in BW would allow them to, it's just in large batches. Sure, perhaps if zerg made nothing but drones until 200 supply they'd get there way faster than T or P, but what good would that do them?

Try something as P. Open nexus first and chrono nothing but probes constantly while setting up for whatever midgame play you have in mind. Go check at 10 minutes how many probes you have vs zerg's dronecount. This is what you can do as P on GSL maps, and you won't see zerg be vastly ahead from it.

Here's another fact to consider. Zerg mines less minerals per base than T or P. Test it for yourself if you don't believe me, but a fully saturated Z base yields about 60-100 mineral per minutes less than protoss, and due to mule supersaturation terran 2 base is nearly even with Z 3 base. Once T gets a high yield 3rd, T economy soars to unmatchable heights!

But, lets say that players eco really hard for fear of over-committing to an attack and losing an army needlessly. Zerg expands and gets as much tech as possible. T expands and builds up a massive tank count. P expands and techs up while building up caster energy. What happens next?

Zerg automatically wins macro games vs T and P. WRONG!

Zerg armies suck. This isn't anything new. Zerg is designed to be a swarm race of less efficient units, right? Wait... hold on! You're saying that lurkers being able to kill 10x their supply/cost in bio is inefficient? Defilers making a single ling capable of breaking a terran push is inefficient? Scourge being able to trade 25/75 for almost any air unit in the game is inefficient?

People are not yet used to the fact that zerg lategame sucks. They are horribly inefficient and only rely on the enemy being unprepared. Every single zerg unit is awful at large scale engagements, and every single zerg unit is too costly for what it does, even at hive tech.

This means zerg needs "more army" to go head to head with T and P. Lets look at the supply costs of zerg units though: Hydras, roach, mutas, infestors - all 2 food. Ultralisks and broodlords are 6 food a piece! Only zerglings and banelings are .5 food and are therefore reasonably food-efficient. Have you ever seen ling/bling do anything to mass tank or mass colossus? Storms and blue flame hellions? What about air? Zerg can't win games off ling/bling alone, but any other unit makes their maxed armies even weaker!

What does this mean? In any engagement lategame, zerg has to have the bigger army, but a bigger economy to reinforce faster. How? You can't do it. Zerg will automatically lose every single engagement if he tries to play with an 80 food army to get 120 drones to outmacro a terran with 70 scvs and 4 OCs spamming mules. What if zerg cuts drones to open up space for army. Well, then you have 150 food of zerg army and 50 drones. P and T might trade armies or even lose the first engagement, but you certainly won't have the money to instantly remake a 150 food army. Add that with zerg's inefficiency when attacking and you'll never beat a T or P who has some good backup defense (cannons/PFs/warpin/turrets) and some good production.

The truth is that Protoss will never ever ever lose a lategame vs a zerg. All you have to do is get a brutal combo of archon/storm, gateway units, immortals, and voidrays. Heck, you can go for the allkill and get a mothership too, they work great! How is Z ever supposed to crack that ball, especially since you're basically running into neverending storms and zealots with warpin. P can instantly remax nonstop until he's at your main.

Zerg can drone up to crush any midgame timing attacks by T or P. Perhaps this one is true.

I will say that there is good reasoning which states that zerg should be able to handle any early/midgame aggression by T or P as long as they prepare right. Of course, isn't that ok? What makes T and P have to attack? Why would they attack? Could they not expand and play for lategame instead?

Say you have a nice marine/tank midgame ball, and zerg is starting to drone his 3rd. How would you deal with this as a terran? You could opt to attack and try to kill him. You see that very often in GSL games, bnet games, games from all skill levels. It seems like a logical thing to do, and in some cases it might still be a good option. However, what if instead you used that army to secure map control, and took a nice juicy high yield base, just like Jinro did vs Idra on Jungle Basin. Now suddenly zerg is playing from behind again and either has to continue expanding to take the lead, eventually hitting the stage where they have too much eco to ever win a direct fight, or they have to attack, and attacking into PFs/siege tanks is nearly impossible. You're forcing zerg into a lose/lose by not attacking, but instead forcing army in case you do attack, and then using that map control to take more bases.

It was ok for zerg to play the expand and eco game in BW because they had good lategame options, even borderline overpowered options. Plague, swarm, ultralisks, cracklings, superior mobility with ultraling, mass doom drops with swarm. Zerg lategame was the scariest thing for anyone to deal with in BW, not because they had so many units, but because their units were frighteningly strong. In SC2 when I see a hive, I just start making voidrays from 3 stargates and laugh my way to victory. There's nothing zerg can do lategame that scares me.

So in the end, who benefits the most from these GSL maps? Is zerg truly overpowered because of spawn larva? I don't believe so. I think zerg is forced to play allins and aggression by their very nature, and I don't believe these larger maps help zerg do that. In fact, I would argue that Protoss is completely broken on these large maps, and terran plays perhaps a bit differently, but retains a lot of its strengths.

Warpin is the only ability which ignores map distance. In effect, if you have pylons somewhere, you have an army there. Once lategame hits P can have upwards 12-20 or more warpgates. Sure, you saw that all the time in BW PvT, but remember that protoss had to walk those units across the map, and vs a T mech army they weren't very efficient either. With warpin storm how can gateway armies be thought of as weak? Zealot/templar is one of the scariest combos to deal with and you can stream it endlessly from any point on the map. Warpin also allows protoss to deal with any harass to far away expansions without dedicating units there. In effect, they don't need map control to defend harassment. In BW you had to spam cannons like crazy in order to avoid losing expansions, and even then, tanks and dark swarm meant you still needed map control.

What about terran? Tanks are still the most fearsome unit in ground to ground combat. In large enough numbers, tanklines are virtually impenetrable by anything other than mass immortals. Tanks are immobile though, but PFs are not. PFs+turrets+ supply depot walls around said PFs offer an antiharassment power which is unrivaled. Terran can simply expand and use stationary defense to keep his expansions alive vs small attacks, and use his large tank-based army to deal with the larger army. Perhaps against protoss this isn't such a bad thing. After all, protoss has carriers, immortals, colossi, and can actually go head to head with the tank ball. What does zerg do? Nothing really. Broodlords in theory, but 1 viking and those broodlords will do nothing. How hard is it to park some vikings over a turret line?

I haven't made a decision as to TvP on GSL maps. People seem to feel that protoss is too strong, and certainly I'm inclined to believe that, at least in lategame. However, T drop play is very strong on larger maps and as the expansion count rises so does the power of drop play.

With 100% certainty I can conclude that PvZ is broken beyond fixing. TvZ is also very bad, though maybe not quite as bad as PvZ. Zerg lategame doesn't have the efficiency and flexibility it needs to.

My ending comment will be that the GSL maps are the best thing that could happen to SC2. They show us the limitations and flaws in game design that the bad Blizzard maps were hiding since early beta. Because Blizzard chose awful maps to balance on, they have achieved awful balance on other maps. You cannot treat these two pillars separately. Maps and balance go hand in hand, and Blizzard chose to ignore that simple fact. At least this is a wake up call for them to fix SC2 for HotS.
'environmental legislation is like cutting scvs to stop an imaginary allin that is never going to come, while your opponent ecos and expands continually'
Smigi
Profile Joined April 2010
United States328 Posts
January 19 2011 10:21 GMT
#83
The fact is, that this is just a theory.

Just like how zerg's have been playing on Delta/Steppes/Close Pos. Meta/Lost temple, and have adapted the best they could, Terran and Protoss must go through the same trial of oversized maps to see really how its effects the match ups and trends. Just like we have done with the maps previously listed, from our extended period of time playing them, I think everyone can agree that those maps are Imbalanced.
Drone then Own
Buffy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Sweden665 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 11:17:27
January 19 2011 11:03 GMT
#84
God damnit, these maps are really fun. Me and my protoss friend played on these maps and only thing we concluded that they are a lot more fun then the current maps. We didn't notice any difference for us more then that we had to bind all controll groups to be able to play efficent.

These maps should go in I think, some of them are really better then most maps in the map pool. And just look back in sc/bw, large maps didn't hinder a mech army back then on large maps. (Yeah different game I know, but mech was slow back then, mech is slow right now. Just pointing out that to make an example.)

So dont see how a slow mech army as off back in the days/compared to now are going to make everything super imbalanced all off a sudden ? Seeing on shakuras as a balanced map. Even Jinro said himself that on close pos it's a terran favored, and cross pos it's even game. (Correct me if I'm wrong). And that is the largest map at the moment so.

Just my thoughts.

EDIT:Let's just see how it plays out, if it turns out to be so out of balanced it's amazingly bad, then so be it. But this could very well be the thing that makes a really freaking good game, into something perfect as in sc/bw had it. Once again, just my thoughts.
Yes I am
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
January 19 2011 11:22 GMT
#85
Nice post [Eternal]Phoenix.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
iDoMiNaTe2.0
Profile Joined September 2010
288 Posts
January 19 2011 11:25 GMT
#86
I don't see how larger maps gives Zerg any advantage unless all the terran and protoss players know how to do is 2 rax pressure bunker and 4 gate warp even if that u can still warp units in anywhere just hide your plyon. Now with these maps 3rd/4th exps are much closer so protoss / terran can exp safer then lets say any blizzard map which. and drops/plyons at far exps can still cause problems for any zerg player. I don't want to say the game is imba for any race until there are better maps. and people actually learn how to counter armies i feel like we get caught up in saying oh this is imba blah blah blah I personally would like to see plyon wall and bunker wall removed from the game
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 11:30:21
January 19 2011 11:29 GMT
#87
On January 19 2011 12:36 mytent wrote:
It's true.

I beat a diamond player on one of teh GSL maps. I was playing zerg (I rarely play them) P.S I'm in GOLD.

These maps need to be balanced a bit better. They're FAR TOO large.



case closed.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
nihoh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia978 Posts
January 19 2011 11:31 GMT
#88
On January 19 2011 20:29 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2011 12:36 mytent wrote:
It's true.

I beat a diamond player on one of teh GSL maps. I was playing zerg (I rarely play them) P.S I'm in GOLD.

These maps need to be balanced a bit better. They're FAR TOO large.



case closed.

Thats actually pretty compelling by hte Gold player.
Dont look at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
January 19 2011 11:31 GMT
#89
Behold my awesome Mspaint skills.
[image loading]

To the left, we have the current jungle bassin.
To the right, we have a larger map. Still jungle bassin. Stil the same numbers of expansions.
Still the same rush distance, still the same size for chokes, and so on.
But by being wider, the map is no longer made up completely of chokepoints.
Opens up a lot of interesting options.
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
January 19 2011 11:37 GMT
#90
sry op but you put no effort in your post. you just claim certain things and consider them as true. thats not the way to go.

put some more effort in this. backup it up with data and replays.
NesTea <3
debasers
Profile Joined August 2010
737 Posts
January 19 2011 11:39 GMT
#91
Larger maps makes Mutalisks, Phoenixes and warp-ins 10 times stronger
FreedonNadd
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria573 Posts
January 19 2011 11:47 GMT
#92
On January 19 2011 20:39 debasers wrote:
Larger maps makes Mutalisks, Phoenixes and warp-ins 10 times stronger

10 times is too much, but they will have a better synergy with the map. Slow units will become less useful on larger maps. You cant retreat and defend so easily.

Abuse of immobility will be more the key to success.
Ever got speedlings in your base, at the early stages of the game and had to watch how your units sneaked slowly to catch even one ling ?

Some people wear Superman pajamas, but Superman has Day[9] pajamas.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
January 19 2011 11:49 GMT
#93
On January 19 2011 20:37 TehForce wrote:
sry op but you put no effort in your post. you just claim certain things and consider them as true. thats not the way to go.

put some more effort in this. backup it up with data and replays.


The OP is one of the smartest foreign map makers out there atm. This is his opinion based on experience and intelligence. I would say you should take his post a bit more seriously. Even if you don't like what he has to say.
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
January 19 2011 11:54 GMT
#94
On January 19 2011 20:39 debasers wrote:
Larger maps makes Mutalisks, Phoenixes and warp-ins 10 times stronger


u forgot drop play from terran :/

if you have more bases you can be more easily be dropped...

really before anybody can conclude any balance issues on bigger maps they should be played in tournaments like gsl.
NesTea <3
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50117 Posts
January 19 2011 11:59 GMT
#95
On January 19 2011 20:31 morimacil wrote:
Behold my awesome Mspaint skills.
&#91;image loading&#93;

To the left, we have the current jungle bassin.
To the right, we have a larger map. Still jungle bassin. Stil the same numbers of expansions.
Still the same rush distance, still the same size for chokes, and so on.
But by being wider, the map is no longer made up completely of chokepoints.
Opens up a lot of interesting options.


move the spawns to 3 and 9 and you have a spitting image of heartbreak ridge.lol
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
divinesage
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore649 Posts
January 19 2011 12:01 GMT
#96
Larger maps will see a growth in the use of Nydus Worms. As a protoss I am always so afraid of getting my 3rd and 4th nydus'd because of the relative immobility of a toss deathball. But yes, I still welcome that, it's gonna give zerg a better chance to play to a macro game, and force people like me to start thinking of safeguards against new zerg strats.
insaneMicro
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany761 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 12:06:02
January 19 2011 12:04 GMT
#97
I think its too early to make such a judgement call. You present sound arguments, but we'll have to wait for next season of GSL to get proper sample size&quality.
"Damn I played some fine Zerg right there". -Fruitdealer
ImSkeptical
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia51 Posts
January 19 2011 12:05 GMT
#98
[image loading]
EG is a great example
Kaboo
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden125 Posts
January 19 2011 12:15 GMT
#99
On January 19 2011 21:05 ImSkeptical wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Win
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -Leonardo da Vinci
sleepytime
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark122 Posts
January 19 2011 12:19 GMT
#100
Because of spawn larvae, Z is going to be quite OP on larger maps. Of course T and P could develop builds to punish the zerg, but the fact that Z can stack larvae makes them far more superior late-game than T or P. Macro Terrans an Protosses are gonna have a hard time firghting a macro Zerg on maps bigger than LT or Shakuras.
Nada fighting!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #217
davetesta14
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko332
IndyStarCraft 178
Reynor 154
SC2Nice 52
trigger 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 11585
Jaedong 1272
firebathero 631
EffOrt 629
Nal_rA 480
actioN 389
Zeus 374
Mini 366
Stork 329
Pusan 203
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 163
Hyun 147
Backho 131
Snow 122
hero 108
Rush 92
Mind 78
Sea.KH 46
sas.Sziky 44
sorry 42
Sharp 36
Aegong 34
sSak 32
JYJ29
JulyZerg 27
Shinee 26
Sacsri 22
Movie 19
yabsab 13
soO 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
IntoTheRainbow 10
Hm[arnc] 4
SilentControl 4
zelot 3
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc9793
qojqva744
XcaliburYe239
syndereN152
febbydoto0
League of Legends
singsing1996
Counter-Strike
flusha322
markeloff97
Heroes of the Storm
XaKoH 243
Khaldor157
Other Games
tarik_tv27904
B2W.Neo1259
shahzam660
DeMusliM637
crisheroes587
Fuzer 348
Liquid`RaSZi222
RotterdaM181
Pyrionflax172
Hui .67
QueenE40
ArmadaUGS31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32943
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1797
League of Legends
• Nemesis4382
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 38m
RSL Revival
20h 38m
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 2h
OSC
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
SHIN vs Clem
FEL
1d 22h
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.