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Ok so here we go! :> My goal here is to try and discuss what everyone thinks about how to vote and make their best rank each season. 
Some of us(like me  ) struggle deciding whom to vote for in our attempts to reach the top of the ranks! My current goal is top 500... I'm pretty far from that right now and might have to wait till next season. :o
That said... How do you guys and gals decide how you will vote?
Are your choices based on top notch names like Fruitdealer, TLO, Ret, IdrA, etc.. and if you see those names just auto-pick them and attempt to remain a true fan?
Do you base choices on the race the players are using and the current game-state? Recent performances? Coin-flip? Hair-style? Best jacket removal()? Maps that are scheduled to play?
Personally, I have usually been voting for Zerg when I feel that they have a decent chance. Another thing I do is to try and listen to commentators thoughts because they have to keep on the pulse of how things are going during any given time(though sometimes i wonder about tastosis... )
LB is very fun for many of us... so what choices do you make in your efforts to reach the top!
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my tactic is is quite simple: vote for the underdog/against the favorite for better score, and vote against the people i want to win(as small comfort if my idols looses)
but from time to time i just vote from who i think should win, but mostly its the above scenario
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Lol! Maybe I should try that myself, seeing as I went 1/4 this morning on GSL bets. 
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mostly just going by gut feeling, choosing people I know / who I know have done well in large tournaments.
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I usually vote for the favorite if it's pretty one-sided, playing safely through the Ro64/Ro32. To end up near the very top through, you pretty much just have to luck out from the quarter-finals on because each game is worth so many points. Voting for the favorite in every case will get you in the top half, but there will probably be thousands of other players ahead of you.
A good liquibetter is certainly going to take things like maps and individual strengths and weaknesses into account, because picking which underdogs are going to win is essential. You obviously can't just pick all the underdogs, just like you can't pick all the favorites.
Ultimately I think it kinda just comes down to a crapshoot at the end, though.
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You watch map pool, and think of the matchup on those maps and then consider the skill of the players Was top 50 awhile until this last round where Ret and NewDawn lost=[
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Calgary25997 Posts
This thread has Chill's blessing.
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On November 30 2010 01:22 Igakusei wrote:
I usually vote for the favorite if it's pretty one-sided, playing safely through the Ro64/Ro32. To end up near the very top through, you pretty much just have to luck out from the quarter-finals on because each game is worth so many points. Voting for the favorite in every case will get you in the top half, but there will probably be thousands of other players ahead of you.
A good liquibetter is certainly going to take things like maps and individual strengths and weaknesses into account, because picking which underdogs are going to win is essential. You obviously can't just pick all the underdogs, just like you can't pick all the favorites.
Ultimately I think it kinda just comes down to a crapshoot at the end, though.
Hmm you are right. I suppose a really good way is to know lots and lots about each player, like you say. Some choices are nail-biters for me though! Like say last seasons finals. I sat here for 5 minutes trying to decide because they are such good players. In the end I think i chose wrongly. Go figure!
I think it would be really neat if there was a 'double down' kind of button. Like say i choose player X and normal is worth 4 points. But i could choose to double the points i could win and get 8. But if i lost, i would lose 8 points. That's one thing I'd really really like to see(not sure how hard/feasable something like this would be to add, though).... There should be a 'penalty' for choosing wrongly aside from just getting 0 points if we are incorrect. That would add more excitement, in my opinion anyway! =)
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my thought process goes (prioritised in this order)
vote for foriegner,
if no forigner
vote for legend (boxer,nada, ppl like that)
if no legend
vote for best player
if i dont know,
vote for player with picture.
if i still dont know, then i guess
mind you, im currently in a "5 vote losing streak" so take this advice with a grain of salt.
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Ro64 is a crapshoot. You basically pick pictures over nonpictures unless the pictured person has a bad record or struggled against an inferior opponent. Then you compare matchups, maps, and quality of opponent beaten and lost to. You can also compare playstyles, but that's a lot harder to do.
If someone is 4-3 TvZ but the opponent's ZvT is 10-1, you're probably gonna go with the Z. If a guy is 4-2 overall, but he beat two really bad opponents and then lost to a mediocre one while another guy is 1-2 but lost to a superior opponent and played close games the whole time, you might lean toward the second guy. Figuring out which maps favor which race or player's style is the next step.
I also weight by match-ups. In my opinion Protoss is currently underpowered, which (if true) also means that the Protoss who have advanced are likely a better average player than a T or Z counterpart. Now that doesn't always hold true, since some of the P who made it to Ro64 played terribly, but at the same time you've got a few others who have played brilliantly. You don't have to agree with my balance presumptions; it's part of my personal criterion. It's one of those things that lends itself well to tie-breaking close-calls, especially in early rounds with barely-known players.
Be careful not to get caught up in the hero bias or foreigner bias.
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It's getting harder and harder. In the beginning of the GSL every player who was not good did not have a photo of them so I just put my vote for whoever had a photo.
Now I'm mostly picking whoever I know the best, I don't follow the GSL but I still maintain 67% right guesses.
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On November 30 2010 01:17 killerkoala wrote:Lol! Maybe I should try that myself, seeing as I went 1/4 this morning on GSL bets.
Hottest Voting Streak 5 Correct votes in a row 
see it this way: its a win win situation, either A: the ones you hope/thought/deserves won, OR you won a liquidbet =) works wonders
it only gets difficult when one you like, that you think is better AND should win plays, caus then its a bit more iffy
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Here are my voting strategies,
- I almost always vote for foreigners, rising stars, etc
- If its a player I've heard of vs a player I've never heard of, vote for player I've heard of (this is hard sometimes because people are changing their names & their IDs dont always match their previous player names ie. foxer vs Optimus vs Marine king)
- If there is a person with a picture vs someone without a picture, vote for the pictured player (may not be the best strategy, but my reasoning is that someone with a picture has a more established position in the scene)
- In Ro8 and onwards, watch the games of the players in the previous round and try to guess which style will be prominent. In Ro32, even though I may have watched all of the Ro64, it's too much work to go back and re-watch all the games.
- I try to vote for Brotoss (I would really like to see more of them even though I am a Z)
I actually have no bias for sc1 legends. I will only vote for them if I think they'll win using the above system. No offense to them or anything... but yeah it's a new game buddy
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Well, to be honest i'm not comfy with the GSL bets, often it's hard to rely on a player with a glorious past, just because they are kind of "old" (no offense.. ;() or just because they were - unfortunately - second class BW pros. But they are more experienced (hundreds of TV games, understanding of the game, etc..)
On the other hand newcomers are have a fresh look on the game, some of them are creative, aggressive, talented, and the new scene makes them very ambitious. But they're kinda unknown, less experienced and it's hard to trust a new face against some notorious player.
For me the game is too young and more versatile than BW, it's so hard to know if X best's match-up is PvZ TvT or whatever, everyone can from a GSL to an other rock bottom to top.
So my votes are 50% of the time randoms
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On November 30 2010 01:41 Craton wrote:
Be careful not to get caught up in the hero bias or foreigner bias.
This has bitten me several times! It's sad, too, to just sit there and watch in disbelief as your LB dreams go right down the drain!
I agree with you about playstyle choices being harder. There are so many variables to consider!
One thing I do know is that TvP games are hard for me to decide for some reason. It could be since I only play zerg that causes me to be unsure about those 2 races. I don't know!
I do find it interesting that people successfully use picture vs no picture to win points though. :o
This thread has Chill's blessing.
 
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I vote for whomever has the shorter name.
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Actually... I'm the current liquibet leader and here's my view on things.
I actually do NOT follow the GSL. I don't have a ticket and I've never caught up on missed games via youtube or streams. I think I've only watched a few games live because Pandain gave me a link to a streamer.
Here's my strategy:
TvT / PvP / ZvZ - If you think you recognize one of the names, vote for him. Otherwise, random.
ZvP - If you think you recognize the Zerg, vote for him. Otherwise vote Protoss.
TvP - Vote Terran.
TvZ - Vote Terran.
Every now and then if you feel like it, randomly choose a player, just to see what happens.
If you follow these simple set of rules, then you too can grow up to be the President. I mean, the Liquibet leader.
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i was top 30 in gsl season2
my round1 votes were based on who has the cooler name
then watching every match
voting round2 based on performance in round 1
then watching every match
voting round3 based on performance in round 2
etc.
Now i'm only Top 330 because i badly misjudged round2: i didn't look for the map sets. i will now surely check them before betting. Who could have known that gom loves to place 2-3 antizerg maps in all of the zerg matchups.
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Ohhhh more great replies! /yay \o/
The leader is even making an appearance!
Humm i have to run some errands but keep chatting for sure! I love these kinds of discussions :D:D
PS TehForce, i also hope they do something about the map situation but i think we have to wait for season 4 probably =(
But! back on topic... I have never seen this mentioned but; is there stuff in addition to special icons for doing well? I would like to win just for that! But am curious at the same time lol.
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On November 30 2010 01:34 killerdog wrote:
my thought process goes (prioritised in this order)
vote for foriegner,
if no forigner
vote for legend (boxer,nada, ppl like that)
if no legend
vote for best player
if no clear best player
vote for most likely to perform a ceremony
if i dont know,
vote for player with picture.
There, added a step.
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I went pretty good in gsl 2, but this gsl i keep voting for guys I want to win instead of guys who would win. Also sometimes I don't notice that X is actually some big name whom I know as Y..
If I haven't got a favourite I vote for the person with the best results, if there isn't a big difference I look in their match history for the matchup.
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I got lucky with 10-in-a-row correct for this season, though I'm only slightly above average overall...
The Ro64 is really a crapshoot because there are a ton of people you don't know well.
Ro32 the better player should win, though its sometimes tough figuring out who is actually the better player.
Now as we move into Ro16 and forward (and the votes are worth more) I am waiting for map choices to come up before voting, and with 4-6 recent games from each player as history, we can get a good idea of a players strengths/weaknesses
also motbob's blog post is a good read if you want to win, not just do well...tldr-you have to pick the correct upsets to win big
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Offtopic: Someone got points for the match HongUn vs JSL?
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Looked at my stats: Hottest Voting Streak 7 Correct votes in a row
I'm proud! My total score isn't very good though 
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If you follow the GSL at least a bit, just vote for the "stronger" player. Be it generally better, or matchup-specific. If somebodys PvP is absolute garbage, he'll probably not win that MU. No matter what his ID is.
The only time this doesn't fully apply is in the ro64. Because there WILL be terrible guys who lucked through the qualifiers. Those will not win, no matter how much the star(craft)s favor them.
This is pretty much the reason why the "vote for the guy with a picture" is so effective. The ones without a picture are not a) previous GSL participants b) SC:BW transitioners or c) other known personalities (foreigners, WC3 pros, ...).
So chances are high they suck.
If such a person has no clan/team, you can bet on him losing without regret.
After ro64 it gets more tricky.
1.) Base bets on the ro64 performance.
- If the MU is different, be cautious
- Mirrors are almost always a huge coinflip. (Exceptions, of course are to be considered. For example, Boxer's TvT is very good. NesTea's ZvZ too. While those are probably considered better players anyways -at least NesTea-, it still should factor into decicion-making) I advise to skip to 4.)
2.) Base bets on previous season's performance
- Skill can drastically change in that timeframe. Take NesTea's GSL1 performance. That was...underwhelming. Sorry to take him as example again and seem like a fanboy
3.) Look at the MU + maps
Now we're talking balance, not players. You should be getting here if the guys have comparable skill.
- If maps clearly favor a certain race, they'll probably do well. A Prime example this season would be Mr Marine VS Monster. TvZ on Jungle, Steppes (and maybe LT)? If you play SC2 you know what to do.
- If in doubt here look at the second map. This is the most important one. If second and third both favor someone, bet on him.
If first and second favor, then you can vote him too, but if the third is less then neutral (meaning: favoring the opp even slightly) you may want to think about it again.
4.) If you can't decide at all, just bet on whom you want to win. Hell, it won't cost your life to be wrong.
Do that and you will place with >60% points, at least.
But should you want to actually win the liquibets, you'll need to take some risks, and of course be INSANELY lucky.
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1) check maps,check what race is favored by maps
2) check previous performance of players
3) combine 1 with 2 (favored by maps + estimated skill lvl)
4)whatever happend before,never vote protoss after ro64
my gsl 3 rules for voting.
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For BW Liquibets, power rank, recent games I've seen, favorites players of mine, and past history between the two players in a given match (if any) all factor into my decision.
For GSL Liquibets I've gone simply by how good the performance was by players in the previous season, also I tend to vote for new players fairly often in the ro64, because frequently they have impressive play. I also employ a foreigner auto-vote, no matter who they face.
In both cases I basically think about the match up (race v race) and the two players facing each other and who is most likely to perform consistently in that instance (not necessarily who will win, but who will play the cleanest game as that is usually who wins as well).
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click guys i know /that have a pic 3 minutes before voting ends , be happy about not forgetting to vote yet again
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2010 03:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you follow the GSL at least a bit, just vote for the "stronger" player. Be it generally better, or matchup-specific. If somebodys PvP is absolute garbage, he'll probably not win that MU. No matter what his ID is.
The only time this doesn't fully apply is in the ro64. Because there WILL be terrible guys who lucked through the qualifiers. Those will not win, no matter how much the star(craft)s favor them.
This is pretty much the reason why the "vote for the guy with a picture" is so effective. The ones without a picture are not a) previous GSL participants b) SC:BW transitioners or c) other known personalities (foreigners, WC3 pros, ...).
So chances are high they suck.
If such a person has no clan/team, you can bet on him losing without regret.
After ro64 it gets more tricky.
1.) Base bets on the ro64 performance.
- If the MU is different, be cautious
- Mirrors are almost always a huge coinflip. (Exceptions, of course are to be considered. For example, Boxer's TvT is very good. NesTea's ZvZ too. While those are probably considered better players anyways -at least NesTea-, it still should factor into decicion-making) I advise to skip to 4.)
2.) Base bets on previous season's performance
- Skill can drastically change in that timeframe. Take NesTea's GSL1 performance. That was...underwhelming. Sorry to take him as example again and seem like a fanboy
3.) Look at the MU + maps
Now we're talking balance, not players. You should be getting here if the guys have comparable skill.
- If maps clearly favor a certain race, they'll probably do well. A Prime example this season would be Mr Marine VS Monster. TvZ on Jungle, Steppes (and maybe LT)? If you play SC2 you know what to do.
- If in doubt here look at the second map. This is the most important one. If second and third both favor someone, bet on him.
If first and second favor, then you can vote him too, but if the third is less then neutral (meaning: favoring the opp even slightly) you may want to think about it again.
4.) If you can't decide at all, just bet on whom you want to win. Hell, it won't cost your life to be wrong.
Do that and you will place with >60% points, at least.
But should you want to actually win the liquibets, you'll need to take some risks, and of course be INSANELY lucky.
Good advice Actually, I'm right about 61 or 62% at the moment. Maybe i should play the lottery!
On November 30 2010 03:10 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
I got lucky with 10-in-a-row correct for this season, though I'm only slightly above average overall...
This is exactly where I am at. 1803 and a 10 streak win as well lol.
One consensus i'm seeing here seems to be pics vs non pics. As well as known v unknown. But sometimes Unknowns have shown us that they can indeed shine!
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Gut feeling and then try to figure out why after.
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If i have a sense of who is better, I usually do that, if i don't, such as many BW players, I base it on whose face looks more fearsome in their picture. I have a better BW liquibet score than SCII, which i follow closer. its science bitches. Can't be disproven.
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I vote for who I want to win, as such I generally don't do too well on the points
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place #21 reporting
this season i was more serious and i included the maps they were playing in my decisionmaking. though i dindt do that many stupid mistakes. (e.g. i thought moon would loose in r64 cause lack of practise. thought i got suprised by some. for example bitbybit doing only all ins against new dawn. i made 2 times 7-in-a-row and once 6-in-a-row. (and some minor like 4-in-a-row etc) and only lost 2 bets since the beginning of round of 16.
i do my decisions like this:
1) skill
2) playstyle
3) maps
4) current metagame and matchup
5) comments
6) pictures (didnt happen this season)
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Decide which is the better player
Pick the other person because this is SC2
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GSL S3 really messed me up. i missed 0 votes/points:
Correct Votes 25 of 62 votes made
Points Percentage 39%
Worst Voting Streak 8 Wrong votes in a row
what i did, in case you want to avoid it:
Ro64 picked based on race and ignored names.
Ro32 picked the underdog.
Ro16 picked the favorite.
Ro8 picked MY favorite.
Semifinals picked Protoss.
Finals picked Protoss.
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Early in the LB seasons I just pick who I think will win or who will help me get furthest in the rankings. Towards the end I just go for the pick that I know less people will pick, because its the only chance I have at making the comeback.
I got 17th in last season of bw liquibet, and am currently top 100 there, and something like 300th currently for LB2. I picked Rain throughout because I knew he'd get me points if he pulls off some crazy shit.
I genuinely t hink MC will win, but I picked Rain, because I know I physically can't win, might as well ATTEMPT to get the highest rank possible.
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EPT
