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On October 15 2010 07:54 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +So just wondering, what physical characteristic of a woman justifies having a separate woman's league for starcraft? Or is there none really? Well judging from history, the best female BW progamer (Tossgirl) failed miserably to even compete with the men. So maybe that's why they have different leagues. If you're a girl, and you can't beat Tossgirl, and if Tossgirl has only won like twice against pro gamer guys in the history of Korean BW, then all we'd see is a massacre.
only twice!? tossgirl had a long career and did end up beating many male progamers: reach, yellow, freemara, gorush and junior to name a few
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On October 15 2010 09:55 Dugrok wrote:
It's taken way too long for women's sports to be taken seriously (even today, you can hardly say that they are). Maybe eSports is a way for them to be equals off the starting line because physical strength is less of a factor.
The only thing that I found a little strange was that they are dividing male and female gamers. I don't see what the point is. I mean, in physical sports, ok. But in eSports... huh? Personally, I'd rather see guys and girls treated as equals from the get-go in eSports because it would entice more women to get involved.
While they may be a minority in eSports because of social stigma associated to gaming, it's irrelevant because it shouldn't affect their level of play. They're just as capable as men of playing games and I personally think it would be an insult to women to segregate the two.
What do you think about foreigner-only tournaments?
There are female only leagues in Chess, Go and Billiards, and I don't see why E-sports would be any different.
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On October 15 2010 09:34 Aprikosen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 09:19 FuRong wrote:
It seems paradoxical that we always complain that there aren't enough girls involved in gaming, but at the same time nobody is willing to support tournaments for them... What the frack are you talking about, I haven't seen a single tournament prohibiting women from participating. I don't understand why being a minority warrants special treatment. What's the point? User was warned for this post "What the fuck are you talking about" is not necessary to make a point.
There are competitions for gold/silver league players only, Australian players only, Europeans only pretty much every kind of 'segregation' you can think of, yet suddenly a league for female players only pops up and all of a sudden people explode with rage.
If girls want to create their own league more power to them, what difference does it make to you?
On October 15 2010 09:43 gillon wrote:
This. I mean, I'm all for everyone being able to play, but I don't see why they should have their own leagues. I mean, is there some inherent disadvantage they have concerning gaming or something?
Am I missing something obvious?
Yes, yes you are. I'll give you a hint it's got nothing to do with being inherently disadvantaged at all.
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Sometimes the guys from my class organize some lan partys and stuff like that, with RTS, FPS, etc. Once we called some of the girl's class to join us. It was pretty funny, don't know why, but women do suck so much in games.
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gillon:
This. I mean, I'm all for everyone being able to play, but I don't see why they should have their own leagues. I mean, is there some inherent disadvantage they have concerning gaming or something?
Am I missing something obvious?
If the guy above you hadn't quoted only a part of my post out of context, you could see that I already answered this in my original post:
--> It's like having a ladies event at the WSOP (which is also a pretty controversial topic in poker btw). You're not saying that girls can't compete with the guys, you're saying that girls prefer to play in an environment where they don't constantly have to deal with male gamers' idiocy
Girls don't have a disadvantage when it comes to gaming. Yes, girls have the opportunity to enter any open tournaments, but the truth is that they don't, we all know this. You can say all you want about girls being fully able to play, having the right to enter and being no different physiologically from guys when it comes to games, but the truth is that under the current system they just don't enter tournaments. Why not? Well the biggest factor is that girl gamers represent such a tiny percentage of SC2 players, and an even smaller percentage of competitive SC2 players. So the question we should be asking is, what can we do to encourage more girls to pick up the game?
Holding female leagues or tournaments has nothing to do with equality, it's about exposure and encouraging participation. The argument is that if girls see or hear about other girls playing the game, they will be more likely to try it out, and it also gives female gamers a greater incentive to play competively. If girls have a positive experience playing in ladies only events, then they are more likely to tell their friends, more likely to come back, more likely to enter other open events and more likely to become a part of the community. This is good for the game as a whole. Will this lead to more girls playing the game on a competitive level to the point where they might enter open tournaments? It's hard to say, we can't be sure. But I think we can agree it would be better than the status quo, where girls just don't enter tournaments period.
@Vei: I'm guessing the player you saw was probably Annie Duke, but she is one of the few female poker players who do NOT support womens only tournaments. She may be a vocal and prominent voice, but her opinion is actually a minority. When they did a survey among other female pros (you can find it on one of those poker news sites) most of them said they enjoyed and fully supported ladies only tournaments/leagues.
Reasons cited by female pros for supporting ladies events included:
- networking, meeting and making friends with other women in their field
- providing a less intimidating environment for amateurs to try out the game
- a more friendly and welcoming tournament atmosphere
- a refrain from male poker players either making sexist jokes, not taking them seriously or trying to hit on them
But of course this isn't a problem in Starcraft, right guys? All Starcraft players are well-adjusted, mature young men who are perfectly capable of treating girls with respect and interacting normally with them, right? Oh wait, just look at the first page of this thread =/
Not every female gamer is as tough as Tossgirl. Tossgirl is one in a million. Not only did she not care about playing in a male dominated environment, she used to sneak out of her house to secretly play in BW tournaments. That kind of dedication and will to compete is pretty rare amongst female gamers. In my opinion, we should do everything we can to encourage greater participation by girls in the game we play and love. If any of you guys fuming at the idea of women's tournaments have any BETTER ideas for getting more girls into the game and involved in the community, then we would love to hear them.
TL;DR: Holding female leagues or tournaments has nothing to do with equality, it's about exposure and encouraging participation
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women can DEFINITELY compete with men if it isn't a physical activity. the problem with women mentally is that, as a gender, they just don't have nearly as huge egos on average compared to men. egos can be obnoxious and irrational, but they also drive you to satisfy that ego. i've competed in a lot of things and i've seen how women practice and compete and i don't get the feeling of infinite motivation that competitive men have. only 1 or 2 girls out of a group will have the same drive that a majority of men in a group have. i really believe that ego is a large part of why guys have a greater spirit and are willing to do what it takes for no apparent benefit. add in the fact that VERY few women even bother trying, and therefore that one amazing miracle person is less likely to pop up, and you have women not appearing nearly as good. tossgirl is a great example of why gender doesn't matter, even if she is the only one.
and i don't support female-only tournaments if they actually want to prove they are as good as men. having them just says 'yea, i wanna compete, but i admit i'm not as good as men so let me just compete with other people who have the same crappy attitude that i have.' if that's what you want then go ahead but i'm never going to believe they're as good if they don't compete where it matters, just the same way starcraft fans don't believe the best foreigner is the best player if they don't prove it by beating koreans. things like basketball? sure, men are way bigger than women, give them their own division because it actually matters. starcraft/poker/anything mental? it's just excuses.
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BMX SC2 americans next top model, cs, cs:s, fencing, and dated moon
this chick is every pc gamers dream
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Haha yay more people the merrier. Be awesome if starcraft becomes popular in gaming for girls as well :D I think she`s starting a pretty awesome clan lol
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I must be the only person on TL who honestly believes that the moderation here has always been way, way too lenient. So it's good to see the mods stepping it up and banning obvious unscrupulous types. Cheers! 
Otherwise, good interview. It's always nice to see participation from the fairer sex in e-sports; something that's definitely going to be necessary for SC to really take off over here in the West.
I don't know if there are any physical things that would prevent women from being as good as men in SC2 (there may well be, SC being a physical as well as a mental sport), but considering how few men there are who are actually good enough at the game for that to even matter, there's no reason why there can't be lots and lots of women playing the game as well, in all levels. I'm sure this Chantal Aust would clean the floor with me, so no problem there.
And internet trolls acting like disgusting miscreants to a lady...please grow up. Chivalry is not dead, and I WILL verbally berate you over the Internet if you mess with a woman. So there.
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51497 Posts
i hope she's not affiliated with them awful bikers from wcg 08.
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Ok. I don't really care about a female gaming league. I don't actually understand why it's so necessary to separate the two. I mean it's really anyone is capable of competing at that high-level of play. So why separate them? Unless it's just that people want to encourage females to participate in gaming by having different leagues, because they think they are gonna get destroyed by males, that's also perfectly fine with me. As long as everyone participates and has fun, that's alright with me.
Offtopic: geez I sound like a parent in that.
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On October 15 2010 07:37 Hypatio wrote:
I'd hit it.
And by hit it I mean I would play starcraft with her. Then I'd really hit it.
I hope to meet her on ladder.
User was temp banned for this post.
On October 15 2010 07:39 brain_ wrote:
Obligatory sex joke: I'd like to dig my neural parasite into her carapace!
User was temp banned for this post.
On October 15 2010 07:53 op25no11 wrote:
she's pretty fugly, as in fucking ugly
User was temp banned for this post.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 15 2010 12:21 Captain Peabody wrote:
And internet trolls acting like disgusting miscreants to a lady...please grow up. Chivalry is not dead, and I WILL verbally berate you over the Internet if you mess with a woman. So there.
chivalry is dead, and you can thank bitches for killing it. What I mean is I'll stop acting like an asshole when the asshole stops getting the girl. Putting the pussy on a pedastal? Been there done that, smartened up. Though I will agree though that these clowns getting banned have about the tact of a construction worker on lunch break.
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Well done, nice Interview.
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On October 15 2010 12:37 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 12:21 Captain Peabody wrote:
And internet trolls acting like disgusting miscreants to a lady...please grow up. Chivalry is not dead, and I WILL verbally berate you over the Internet if you mess with a woman. So there. chivalry is dead, and you can thank bitches for killing it. What I mean is I'll stop acting like an asshole when the asshole stops getting the girl. Putting the pussy on a pedastal? Been there done that, smartened up. Though I will agree though that these clowns getting banned have about the tact of a construction worker on lunch break.
lol what?
simply because girls are into guys that are more physically dominant it means you have to be an asshole on the internet?
interesting...
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That's your call whether you think I'm being an asshole there. I'm saying being a jerk can get more attention from girls than "verbally berating" guys on the internet who are rude to women.. physically dominant is a better way to put it, nice one.
I should probably comment on the interview since I'm posting here. I don't think a girls league would have much success considering there's so many good tournies out there already that produce more entertaining games. but it's cool that the chick is backing SC2 and E-sports as a whole, the more exposure the better. Maybe she can get good enough to compete with the guys at some point, or at least peak as a commentator. GL to her either way.
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On October 15 2010 11:21 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 09:34 Aprikosen wrote:On October 15 2010 09:19 FuRong wrote:
It seems paradoxical that we always complain that there aren't enough girls involved in gaming, but at the same time nobody is willing to support tournaments for them... What the frack are you talking about, I haven't seen a single tournament prohibiting women from participating. I don't understand why being a minority warrants special treatment. What's the point? User was warned for this post "What the fuck are you talking about" is not necessary to make a point. There are competitions for gold/silver league players only, Australian players only, Europeans only pretty much every kind of 'segregation' you can think of, yet suddenly a league for female players only pops up and all of a sudden people explode with rage.
That's because there's no obvious distinction between Males and Females for SC2 play. Bronze, Silver, etc. are by definition different tiers of skill, separating them makes sense. Regional segregation helps organization and community since servers are separated into 3 regions. To separate male/female tournies just doesn't really have much basis other than to attract attention the same way the rose bowl attracts attention to it: hey watch this because it appeals to your loins.
which i mean hey, nothing inherently wrong with that, but realize that's what it is really.
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On October 15 2010 13:38 Vei wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 11:21 Wargizmo wrote:On October 15 2010 09:34 Aprikosen wrote:On October 15 2010 09:19 FuRong wrote:
It seems paradoxical that we always complain that there aren't enough girls involved in gaming, but at the same time nobody is willing to support tournaments for them... What the frack are you talking about, I haven't seen a single tournament prohibiting women from participating. I don't understand why being a minority warrants special treatment. What's the point? User was warned for this post "What the fuck are you talking about" is not necessary to make a point. There are competitions for gold/silver league players only, Australian players only, Europeans only pretty much every kind of 'segregation' you can think of, yet suddenly a league for female players only pops up and all of a sudden people explode with rage. That's because there's no obvious distinction between Males and Females for SC2 play. Bronze, Silver, etc. are by definition different tiers of skill, separating them makes sense. Regional segregation helps organization and community since servers are separated into 3 regions. To separate male/female tournies just doesn't really have much basis other than to attract attention the same way the rose bowl attracts attention to it: hey watch this because it appeals to your loins. which i mean hey, nothing inherently wrong with that, but realize that's what it is really.
Still missing the point, while in some cases it may be 'to attract attention' as you say I would say the majority of female leagues are created for the reasons described in FuRong's excellent post above.
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On October 15 2010 07:58 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 07:57 Goliathsorrow wrote:
It is speculated that females are better al multitasking.
So female gamers would potentially be better than us at Sc2 ?
I do remember Tossgirl in BW was good but not enough to make out against most of the top players.
lol she did beat Effort.
She was also dating him so that win isnt 100% in my book
Also to all the people who say she is ugly, you have 0 taste in women
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EPT
