GOM has caved in to the massive amount of complaints that it received over the past few days. Recently, everyone who bought a GOM Premium Ticket received a message detailing a new pricing structure for GOMTV material.
Currently, a low quality stream will be provided during live matches. A combined package of VODs and a HQ stream can be purchased for $20 total.
The text of the letter sent to purchasers of the old GOM Premium Ticket follows.
Dear our valued user,
This is GOMtv.net Support Team. We’ve found you purchased Season Live ticket($19.95) via Paypal and we are sending this email to inform you very important issues. We are sorry to say this, however, we would like to let you know this information as soon as possible.
As you know, we do not have free streaming service on GOMtv.net. Since our service has been opened to public, lots of e-sports fans have requested for the free streaming service. We’ve thought this issue over for the last few days and we’ve decided to release the free service for the users.
Therefore, we will service 1 season premium ticket which includes VOD service and Premium Live service, and the price will be $19.95. With premium ticket, you can watch High Quality(500K) streaming live matches and VODs. Free service is the Standard Quality(below 250K) streaming live only, with no VODs.
You can ask a refund if you are not happy with this new premium service. However, if you keep your purchase, we will reward you the premium ticket for 3 pre-seasons which is valid for all season in this year.
Please reply to this email if you want to refund your VOD ticket before the first live broadcasting starts(at 7pm KST). Otherwise, we will consider that you keep your purchase and accept the premium service for 3 pre-seasons.
Wow. I didn't expect this to happen in a million years.
Thank you so much GOM. <3
And the funny thing is, I think I've literally just went from NOT paying or watching, to both paying AND watching. $20 for the whole deal is so much more fair.
lol, was just reading the poll comments and this right after. And it was the fastest "fuck gom" to "love gom"... I still hate them for even trying to rip us off :\
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Nope. Actually think before post please. Using this as a marketing ploy, drawing the rage from so many users then having to reimburse them, etc. is so bad, I don't know why you would even come up with that idea.
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Nope. Actually think before post please. Using this as a marketing ploy, drawing the rage from so many users then having to reimburse them, etc. is so bad, I don't know why you would even come up with that idea.
Its actually done quite often. People are quick to forget things and move on. Especially when its Gom alone that has the control over the streams. (we cant go somewhere else)
The government will sometimes purposefully leak information about upcoming bills to see what the public's response to it will be. If its negative then they will kill the bill before it ever gets into a legitimate vote.
On September 03 2010 22:00 Jibba wrote: These are still terrible quality streams.
I personally don't mind the pixelated look, but can see how some people would.
As far as the free stream goes, I won't/can't/shouldn't complain, because it's free.
They're going to have top line computers watching the game at Ultra settings with a bitrate only suitable for a 2 generation old smart phone's resolution. Now expand that to fir your monitor's resolution.
I and many other people have gone from a "wont watch" to a "will check out the free stream". Which is good because although we arent buying a ticket now we are being exposed to the product (gomtv) and if we like the experience would consider purchasing the premium service.
But than again that depends on us likeing the original expierence (which requires a good definition stream) and liking the premium service (which requires a great definition stream). Point is if your product (both streams) isnt up to snuff than your losing customers.
On September 03 2010 22:09 Archerofaiur wrote: I and many other people have gone from a "wont watch" to a "will check out the free stream". Which is good because although we arent buying a ticket now we are being exposed to the product (gomtv) and if we like the experience would consider purchasing the premium service.
But than again that depends on us likeing the original expierence (which requires a good definition stream) and liking the premium service (which requires a great definition stream). Point is if your product (both streams) isnt up to snuff than your losing customers.
Thing is, if you live in NA, the only way you can watch the tournament still is by watching it live at 5AM since they still restrict us from watching VODs unless we pay.
I wake up to watch BW anyway, so it is fine for me, but I know some people will still be disappointed.
i am currently watching korean starcraft 2 조선 배 gisado finals on gom player for free and it is at better quality than 500k preview of gsl 'hq' version for $20. why is that? why am i gonna have to pay 20 dollars for something of lower quality video compare to what i am watching for free?
On September 03 2010 22:00 Jibba wrote: These are still terrible quality streams.
I personally don't mind the pixelated look, but can see how some people would.
As far as the free stream goes, I won't/can't/shouldn't complain, because it's free.
They're going to have top line computers watching the game at Ultra settings with a bitrate only suitable for a 2 generation old smart phone's resolution. Now expand that to fir your monitor's resolution.
Shader effects will be a mushy blur.
I suppose if you're talking about the pay stream, I could agree, but when it's free I don't really see any need for complaints.
For me, as long as the stream isn't choppy, I can hear the casters, and easily tell what's going on, I'm happy. Super-high quality video and seeing shader effects is just a 'plus' for me.
The pay stream and vods probably could/should be of higher quality though. D=
Nice, second "WIN" for the community in a short while. First REAL ID, now this. The people have the power! ... More like the people have the money and we can't screw them over to hard
For me it was partly about the money but mainly about the quality, that is still bad but at least they've lowered the price so well done for that at least. Not that I will be paying for the "high quality" stream anyway, maybe if the vods were much better quality but as they are now, no chance.
This is still pretty bad. High quality vods are needed for esports to be successfull. Now, our friend asks us what we were doing up so early and we say "watching huge SC2 tournament". They ask if they can watch the matches too and "No" is their answer. Seriously, just get artosis to upload it to youtube and we can watch in in HD.
im myself do stream at 1500 kbps and i think its "okay" quality so what the hell will be 250 kbs look like ? its 1/6 th of what i think is okay
pure gold...
anyhow GOM is just throwing people a bone so they will eventually cough up the 20$ "eh its just 20$ and the stream will be sooo much better..." +the VOD's are only on the paid service and for anyone with any sort of life apart from SC, VOD's are a big deal b/c its on your own schedule even if its only 2 hours later you dont need to arrange your life around the streaming times
so basically GOM just did this to sucker them into paying even if it'll take a little bit longer for people to decide to pay if they had kept the system the way it was then everyone would've just given them the finger and sworn to never use their service
Not sure how much i will be able to watch, but like many other i went from "No chance in hell im paying" to "I might pay just to show that i respect that they listened to the community and i´d like to help the e-sport grow".
Great news: I cant believe some of the comments here tho. Some people are never content..... I don't see the point in coming here and complaining about the quality. They sell a product, if you don't want it, move on. You don't barge into stores screaming about how pricey and bad tasting a specific cereal is, why bitch about this if you're not interested?
I don't mind watching horrible quality as long as its Tasteless and Artosis commentating, as long as you can see whats going on. A shame ill miss the first week because of work but I'll get to see the IdrA game at least.
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Nope. Actually think before post please. Using this as a marketing ploy, drawing the rage from so many users then having to reimburse them, etc. is so bad, I don't know why you would even come up with that idea.
Um. Seeing as there's absolutely no evidence that this was a planned stunt by GOM as opposed to a mistake, it's sort of malicious to claim that it was a stunt.
Will probably buy a premium pass now (as I'm sure is the case for a LOT of people). This is basic economics; don't know how they didn't realise this would happen in the first place, but at least they've made a good move here.
And of course the real irony here is that they'll probably make about 10x more money this way than they would have if they'd kept the paid-only approach.
Well, good for GOM for coming around sooner rather than later. Hopefully, they can get the rest of the nonsense with Kespa, MBC, and OGN fixed up, too.
I'm glad they rethought the policy, but I'm still concerned that they thought it was a good idea in the first place. Hopefully the stream quality is watchable b/c other wise it's just like having a tasteless/artosis soundtrack to a moving blur.
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Nope. Actually think before post please. Using this as a marketing ploy, drawing the rage from so many users then having to reimburse them, etc. is so bad, I don't know why you would even come up with that idea.
So clearly TorcH marched into the evil CEOs office and melted his cold cold heart with those blue eyes and that adorable smile. That's what I prefer to believe anyway.
I personally find it refreshing that they listened to their customer base and adjusted their pricing. Too often companies just stubbornly stick to a decision and leave customers dissatisfied. Hopefully this will lead to a profitable business model for GOM and enjoyable esports experience for users.
On September 03 2010 22:54 OTIX wrote: So clearly TorcH marched into the evil CEOs office and melted his cold cold heart with those blue eyes and that adorable smile. That's what I prefer to believe anyway.
I had resigned myself to simply not watching and possibly reading LR thread the day after. Now I have to figure out if I can actually feasibly catch enough games to buy the service. Hopefully people support it at this new, reasonable price.
The 300kb/s stream is okay (no horrible coding artifacts, although you can't read the supply count) The 500kb/s is a bit better (that's the HQ stream & regular VOD)
They should have a 1000kb/s or 1500kb/s stream though for the paying people.
I'll buy a ticket not because I was door-in-the-face'd, but because $20 is actually a price I'll pay to support them. I wanted to give them money anyway, but $50 was unreasonable.
What was the bitrate of the GOMTV streams for the BW Tournaments? I could watch it on my 500kbit/s connection and it was way way better than everything that was streamed on livestream.com. However SCII might not look that good given the resolution is a lot higher.
Anyways, I know what the units look like, just give me a good commentary and I'm happy.
Looks like the only viewable bitrate will be the paid one. The free one is free but I'd rather not even watch that lol. As one user said: pixelated vomit. lol
300k bitrate looks like a pixelated vomit. Jesus Christ.
You're joking right? There is hardly a difference between 500k and 300k streams.
$20 is definitely more reasonable but that HQ stream isn't very good. Both are easily watchable though. I may pay the $20 just to get access to the VODs because there is no way I will be able to stay up for all of these games.
Seriously, its nice to see Gom listening to their potential customers.
And I think, ultimately this will lead to MORE people who decide to pay for premium service, rather than less. Its the difference between selling an HD Football package to someone whose already addicted to watching Football on their crappy old TV, and trying to see an HD Football Package to someone who doesn't even watch football.
If you get people hooked on watching on the low quality stream, they are vastly more likely to consider upgrading to be a worthwhile move.
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Yeah, I think so. Not impressed. Also, since they are free now, I don't see how they can forbid people to record and VOD them on youtube. Let there be VODs.
also, the low quality stream isn't really worse than watching non-HD replays on Youtube. In other words, definitely crappy, but at least you can still tell whats going on. I've done it in a pinch, and its definitely better than nothing.
On September 03 2010 22:01 Inschato wrote: Marketing ploy? Just throwing out the possibility.
Yeah, I think so. Not impressed. Also, since they are free now, I don't see how they can forbid people to record and VOD them on youtube. Let there be VODs.
Since it's their owned property there are many reasons they can forbid people to record and upload to youtube ...
300k bitrate looks like a pixelated vomit. Jesus Christ.
You're joking right? There is hardly a difference between 500k and 300k streams.
$20 is definitely more reasonable but that HQ stream isn't very good. Both are easily watchable though. I may pay the $20 just to get access to the VODs because there is no way I will be able to stay up for all of these games.
Yeah. Not impressed with the 500k also.
I'll be enjoying this meanwhile. Maybe I'll stream it for you guys even.
Both streams look like garbage. Are GOM not aware it's 2010 out there? Do they not have a person that's responsible for stream encoding? Why is it a step DOWN in quality and not up?
Or did they just majorly fuck up the samples and the actual streams will be watchable?
Just saw the "standard" quality stream and can't believe some people were willing to pay for that! But as a free live stream, it is not bad. Definitely going to stay up to watch a few choice matches,
300k bitrate looks like a pixelated vomit. Jesus Christ.
Are you kidding me? The 300k looks far better than most proleague/OSL streams I watch. Could it be better? Of course, but it's not as bad as you guys seem to be making it out to be.
Premium is worth it now anyway for $20 with vods too.
300k bitrate looks like a pixelated vomit. Jesus Christ.
You're joking right? There is hardly a difference between 500k and 300k streams.
$20 is definitely more reasonable but that HQ stream isn't very good. Both are easily watchable though. I may pay the $20 just to get access to the VODs because there is no way I will be able to stay up for all of these games.
Yeah. Not impressed with the 500k also.
I'll be enjoying this meanwhile. Maybe I'll stream it for you guys even.
oh snap <-<
Yeah the free stream is bad as expected but at least it's free. The premium HQ stream would be labeled as LQ anywhere else.
Thank goodness GOM listened. Hopefully someone will restream the Korean cast and I could have the low quality Tastetosis audio with the Korean video. Huzzzah! I might cough up the $20 for the VOD's depending on how "HQ" they are since I know I won't make it every day. For a paid service the live bitrate is still embarrassingly low and I hope it improves in the near future. That really is their last hurdle in my eyes.
On September 03 2010 22:25 Phisk wrote: Great news: I cant believe some of the comments here tho. Some people are never content..... I don't see the point in coming here and complaining about the quality. They sell a product, if you don't want it, move on. You don't barge into stores screaming about how pricey and bad tasting a specific cereal is, why bitch about this if you're not interested?
I don't mind watching horrible quality as long as its Tasteless and Artosis commentating, as long as you can see whats going on. A shame ill miss the first week because of work but I'll get to see the IdrA game at least.
Dude, clients must never be content. We're stuck in a capitalist society, companies have to deliver quality products or its the clients duty to be frustrated and demand additional lumber. From what I hear, 500kbps seems like a really shitty quality, not to mention DRM issues, not being able to keep copies of vods after tournament is over. They decided to lower the price of a low quality product to make us think "Oh, they listen to us", but this is more like negociation. If we accept to pay so much for a shitty video quality, we're pretty much getting screwed. Maybe in the future they will up the bandwidth/quality of the stream and the customers will be getting a better value for their money.
On September 03 2010 22:53 Crissaegrim wrote: "Oh look, that pixel just casted a psi storm, now we know that was a HT all along!"
What's the policy of restreams? Will anyone buying the premium stream be allowed/is willing to restream to us, the poor?
Are you kidding or do you really still not know how this stuff works?
Yes of course that one guy pays 20 bucks and then GOM smiles at us all watching a restream of the HQ stream for free
Well, one can always hope...=). Was thinking more of a clandestine pshh-pshh-wanna watch a HD stream-free? rather than a "Hey everyone, Im restreaming for FREE! Look here GOM!"
On September 03 2010 22:53 Crissaegrim wrote: "Oh look, that pixel just casted a psi storm, now we know that was a HT all along!"
What's the policy of restreams? Will anyone buying the premium stream be allowed/is willing to restream to us, the poor?
Are you kidding or do you really still not know how this stuff works?
Yes of course that one guy pays 20 bucks and then GOM smiles at us all watching a restream of the HQ stream for free
Well, one can always hope...=). Was thinking more of a clandestine pshh-pshh-wanna watch a HD stream-free? rather than a "Hey everyone, Im restreaming for FREE! Look here GOM!"
I'm not sure what the point is. With the restreaming of their already-mediocre HQ stream, the quality would most likely be about the same as the low quality stream's anyway.
People who were raging before are now saying, "Sure, I'll pay 20 dollars for low quality VODs!"
OSL, MSL, and PL have always been free. Even if it wasn't planned as a door in the face, it sure worked as one. No way in hell I'm paying $240/year.
And no, I don't care if GOM is understaffed and can't get a sponsor or whatever the issue is. If that's the case, step down and give us OGN and MBC, who can provide tournaments for free.
I think the fact that the free stream is very low quality is a good middle ground. I mean, I don't want to make it impossible for them to make money (especially if it helps e-sports), it's just that having no way to watch GSL without paying was a little much.
For people complaining about the quality you guys have to realize that this is GOMTV, a korean company that focused mainly on sc1. sc1 doesn't need super good bit rates, it looks pretty crappy on any bitrate because of how old the game is, so 500 is HQ for Sc1. gom just hasn't moved on for sc2 yet, and 500 isn't actually that bad, i stream in 500 yeah it may not be the best to pay for, but the quality will likely go up as they can afford it.
On September 03 2010 23:31 HalfAmazing wrote: Listen up sheep, this was planned in advance. Door-in-your-face technique as previously discussed. Look it up.
I conceed that this might be true, however does that really matter? Ultimately you have to decide whether or not $20 is a fair price. Considering other similar venues were $10 for a weekend long event, then I say absolutely yes, it is worth it.
You can sit there and be mad about a theorized attempt to manipulate you and miss this event if you want, but I think you are just really missing out.
On September 03 2010 23:31 HalfAmazing wrote: Listen up sheep, this was planned in advance. Door-in-your-face technique as previously discussed. Look it up.
I conceed that this might be true, however does that really matter? Ultimately you have to decide whether or not $20 is a fair price. Considering other similar venues were $10 for a weekend long event, then I say absolutely yes, it is worth it.
You can sit there and be mad about a theorized attempt to manipulate you and miss this event if you want, but I think you are just really missing out.
I agree 100%. Considering similar venues like OSL/MSL/PL, which were free for years...
For anyone working on GomTV reading this, im actually gonna buy the new ticket now just for you guys to notice that we appreciate the change of mind. It reveals you were listening and have good will instead of stubburness.
Congratulations to GomTV for the decision and lets get some epic battles going.
GomTV is taking a risk by running such a large event in an untested, new and unfamiliar scene with SC2, not to mention connecting with the foreign scene and hiring tasteless and artosis, and they're giving people a free stream.... and people are still complaining so bitterly?
I'm buying the stream just because i want to support what they are doing now.
Only way the general public would have watched it. Good.
But this sounds like the worst stream conceivable, even if free. It sounds like its going to be really tiny and VERY bad quality. I expect decent quality for a free stream, not HD but at least nice looking.
This makes me want to buy the HQ stream Thanks for listening GOM Edit: imo people put too much weight on stream quality and graphics; I you want to see action watch a stream of pros, if you want to see graphics just play on ultra.
On September 03 2010 23:31 HalfAmazing wrote: Listen up sheep, this was planned in advance. Door-in-your-face technique as previously discussed. Look it up.
I conceed that this might be true, however does that really matter? Ultimately you have to decide whether or not $20 is a fair price. Considering other similar venues were $10 for a weekend long event, then I say absolutely yes, it is worth it.
You can sit there and be mad about a theorized attempt to manipulate you and miss this event if you want, but I think you are just really missing out.
I agree 100%. Considering similar venues like OSL/MSL/PL, which were free for years...
...oh...
That is an unfair comparision, apples v oranges. Starcraft 1 v Starcraft 2, Korean v English services, etc etc. A good comparison would be MLG, or ESL etc.
On September 03 2010 23:43 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: GOM <3
You saved StarCraft 2 as an esport.
Well that is Highly arguable, I will never pay a 20,00 bucks for a 500k stream, and moreover: The internet connection is too expensive for such speeds (like 30$ a month) The average salary is no higher than 500$ here)))) so, for sc2 purposes I will need like 50$ out of my salary, which is 60% spend for food 40% rent and other stuff). Oh! the pain!
Wait...what? You're getting it for free. You're not giving them anything.
Why would you have any expectation of *anything*?
They could literally start each video with a 5 minute clip of a middle finger aimed right at the viewer, and you'd have no leg to stand on to bitch about it, because you are not a paying customer.
Well at least 200k is ok for me anyway,I'm sorry, but why the hell should we thank GOM?, if 20% of fans would watch their pay streams, did they benefit from it a lot?, it was quite obvious that they would follow.
On September 04 2010 00:03 letian wrote: Well at least 200k is ok for me anyway,I'm sorry, but why the hell should we thank GOM?, if 20% of fans would watch their pay streams, did they benefit from it a lot?, it was quite obvious that they would follow.
Wait...what? You're getting it for free. You're not giving them anything.
Why would you have any expectation of *anything*?
They could literally start each video with a 5 minute clip of a middle finger aimed right at the viewer, and you'd have no leg to stand on to bitch about it, because you are not a paying customer.
Yes, but if they want viewers for advertising money they still need to provide a product that people want to watch. If the stream is terrible, people may just skip on it, even if it's free.
On September 03 2010 23:56 Deadlyhazard wrote: Only way the general public would have watched it. Good.
But this sounds like the worst stream conceivable, even if free. It sounds like its going to be really tiny and VERY bad quality. I expect decent quality for a free stream, not HD but at least nice looking.
I expect you to fetch me a beer when you read this post, but I will not hold my breath ...
On September 03 2010 21:58 Mikilatov wrote: Wow. I didn't expect this to happen in a million years.
Thank you so much GOM. <3
And the funny thing is, I think I've literally just went from NOT paying or watching, to both paying AND watching. $20 for the whole deal is so much more fair.
Pretty much agree with this. I didn't give two shits about the GSL even before they announced the pricing structure (well, I did care a little before) and when they said there wouldn't be a free cast, I knew I wouldn't watch a match. Now, I might not even be able to stay up tonight to watch it, but I'm still thinking about buying a ticket just because it's reasonable and I do want to see the league succeed. Still not happy about what's happening with BW, but I'll support this league.
I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't so much a door in the face ploy as much as they were trying to generate external reaction from groups that typically wouldn't pay attention to starcraft streaming. On that front i'm not entirely sure it succeeded as I didn't see any mention of this outside of here, but it's always a novel approach and can really work well. Make something so controversial that people who don't really care pay attention, then make them feel like their weight of outrage actually affected something, bing bang bosh they might actually watch it and maybe even pay for services!
That seems exactly like what it should be. Free live content at the whee hours of the morning so the dedicated can stay up to watch, while those who pay the fee get higher quality stream and ability to watch vods. This makes perfect sense.
Amazing news, for how long the season is and the fact that its English commentary I think I will bite at this point. Its like 2 hours of working to afford.
20 bucks is way more reasonable. If things workout between gretech and kespa for proleague to continue then I'll happily pay my support for a good stream.
Wait...what? You're getting it for free. You're not giving them anything.
Why would you have any expectation of *anything*?
They could literally start each video with a 5 minute clip of a middle finger aimed right at the viewer, and you'd have no leg to stand on to bitch about it, because you are not a paying customer.
Yes, but if they want viewers for advertising money they still need to provide a product that people want to watch. If the stream is terrible, people may just skip on it, even if it's free.
Why are you saying that anyway? I definitely won't skip on it
Can anyone clarify there is really only (2) games being played on Sept 4th and (5) games played on Sept 6th? Just want to make sure I'm looking at the correct schedule, because I understand it's in format of a season. Just kind of hope for more then just couple games per session, but still nice to have games on a free stream now regardless.
Also really anyone reading through the thread, there really is no need to point out people complaining about "Free stream". People will complain about anything and everything if they feel it's valid. To each their own, but I would much rather be capable of watching these matches then FORCED to pay for them. Everyone seems to forget that point and dwells on fact they can't full screen 1080p in DVD quality for free stream. So with personally having high expectations for quality of streams I glanced over at the viewing of the standard / HQ previews on GOMtv. They both looks just fine for a free stream, as well as being better then some previous tournaments free streams quality wise.
The 300kb/s stream is okay (no horrible coding artifacts, although you can't read the supply count) The 500kb/s is a bit better (that's the HQ stream & regular VOD)
They should have a 1000kb/s or 1500kb/s stream though for the paying people.
I've seen livestream and Ustream streams that are much better than the 'high quality' one. This is just disappointing for such a large tournament. They could just host it on livestream and it would look better.
Aforementioned door in the face theory seems plausible, especially since the average viewer would not be awake at 6AM to watch Starcraft 2, making the $20 full-package sound like more and more like a favour to the viewer
So when does the first match start? I read that it started on September 4th at 7:00 P.M KST but I'm not familiar with Korean time zone, would this be around 5 A.M EST?
First matches to be played: Greg Fileds a.k.a IdrA (Z) vs Tae Hoon Ji a.k.a 허준과침제니스 (T) Han Eul Kwak a.k.a MakaPrime (T) vs Hyo Seop Eom a.k.a BEV (P)
I actually think that what Gom wanted to charge before was "worth it" if you are into SC2. The only problem is that most people just dont have that extra money laying around. Especially when the internet allows for so much restreaming etc which makes everything free. What Gom is providing is epic as far as content is concerned, and epic content is worth paying for. They just forgot to consider the fact that most people just dont have 50 bucks a month to blow no matter how excited they are about the games.
I appreciate Gom reconsidering and pricing things correctly and fairly. Splitting VODs from stream was an odd mistake to begin with. I will definitely buy the stream now without hesitation. I have a few friends who are SC2 fans who also will now be paying up the 20 bucks.
I looked at the stream quality and people in this thread who are complaining are literally crazy and i almost would suspect them as trolls if i didnt know how self-entitled people can be. Going around claiming that the quality is "vomit" on a forum is disgusting and a little respect should at least be given to Gom for trying as hard as they may be able to to do what we are asking of them. I love TL but all the "stream quality is vomit" and "SC2 sucks because its killing BW" crap is getting embarrassingly old.
Thank you again Gom. You handled the problem with dignity which is rare.
On September 04 2010 00:42 KentHenry wrote: So when does the first match start? I read that it started on September 4th at 7:00 P.M KST but I'm not familiar with Korean time zone, would this be around 5 A.M EST?
Enter the time here and it will convert the time to your local time.
It's so funny how Blizzard works. They always start with a ridiculous idea to see if they can get away with it and once the community says f-no they change it. It's great that they listen tho, but I really think they saw this coming and just wanted to see how much they could get away with as far as profit margins go.
On September 04 2010 00:54 ckw wrote: It's so funny how Blizzard works. They always start with a ridiculous idea to see if they can get away with it and once the community says f-no they change it. It's great that they listen tho, but I really think they saw this coming and just wanted to see how much they could get away with as far as profit margins go.
On September 04 2010 00:54 ckw wrote: It's so funny how Blizzard works. They always start with a ridiculous idea to see if they can get away with it and once the community says f-no they change it. It's great that they listen tho, but I really think they saw this coming and just wanted to see how much they could get away with as far as profit margins go.
... GomTV != Blizzard.
That's how most businesses work. It's not uncommon for companies to raise prices just before a sale or major coupon release. It's marketing.
On September 04 2010 00:54 ckw wrote: It's so funny how Blizzard works. They always start with a ridiculous idea to see if they can get away with it and once the community says f-no they change it. It's great that they listen tho, but I really think they saw this coming and just wanted to see how much they could get away with as far as profit margins go.
... GomTV != Blizzard.
well.... Gom cut a deal with Blizz that kespa was not willing to accept. so the odds are Gom paid alot or undertook alot of risks. Gom is trying to recover that cost or is carrying out the terms of the contract per blizzard.
so the price situation was either a direct or most likely an indirect result of blizzard's action.
On September 04 2010 00:42 KentHenry wrote: So when does the first match start? I read that it started on September 4th at 7:00 P.M KST but I'm not familiar with Korean time zone, would this be around 5 A.M EST?
Enter the time here and it will convert the time to your local time.
Just wanted to voice my support for Gom in this decision. The quality of the free stream isn't horrible by any means, I can clearly tell what's going on, and the HD sample looks pretty good.
May also be buying, depending on how many games I can catch.
I'm pretty sure this was a trick. It's a social psychological phenomenon. If you ask for something ridiculous first, and then for a smaller favour, your smaller favour will much more likely be granted. So if they would have announced the Series for 20$ right away, people would have still complained. But since they first said 50$ and then reduced it to 20$ everyone is happy. Fancy trick xD.
Yesterday paying a single dollar for an e sport tournament was consider hilarious
today paying 20 $ for a months tournament is fine lol
I wont be giving a single euro for something that should have been free consider the current technology , how much i payed to buy this game and how much for a new pc.
Whats next paying to download replays bah , you guys fell for it so easy
You can ask a refund if you are not happy with this new premium service. However, if you keep your purchase, we will reward you the premium ticket for 3 pre-seasons which is valid for all season in this year.
Does this mean $20 gets you all three full season tournaments happening in 2010?
You can ask a refund if you are not happy with this new premium service. However, if you keep your purchase, we will reward you the premium ticket for 3 pre-seasons which is valid for all season in this year.
Does this mean $20 gets you all three full season tournaments happening in 2010?
No it means if you already payed $50 you can either get your money back OR get the 3 seasons.
Also OT: wth is up with the Skypeshit i have to remove everytime i try and quote someone?
On September 04 2010 01:53 ALARM wrote: I'm pretty sure this was a trick. It's a social psychological phenomenon. If you ask for something ridiculous first, and then for a smaller favour, your smaller favour will much more likely be granted. So if they would have announced the Series for 20$ right away, people would have still complained. But since they first said 50$ and then reduced it to 20$ everyone is happy. Fancy trick xD.
I agree with you and several others who voice that opinion.
Could someone tell me how much premium option cost for Gom Season 3?
On September 04 2010 02:01 st3roids wrote: Marketing does work
Yesterday paying a single dollar for an e sport tournament was consider hilarious
today paying 20 $ for a months tournament is fine lol
I wont be giving a single euro for something that should have been free consider the current technology , how much i payed to buy this game and how much for a new pc.
Whats next paying to download replays bah , you guys fell for it so easy
Do we know when they're going to update their pricing model on the website? I'm planning to purchase this now that it's reasonable, but it looks like they still have the old pricing model on their site for me.
Is anyone else having problems logging into the GomTV.net site ? I made the account, confirmed it but I still cannot login. It just says that the e-mail does not exist.
On September 04 2010 02:54 Ancient.eu wrote: Is anyone else having problems logging into the GomTV.net site ? I made the account, confirmed it but I still cannot login. It just says that the e-mail does not exist.
Same here, except that it says: Email Sent! but I never get the email...
This is of course good news however I am still pretty sure this was a deliberate manipulation attempt, and as such I will harbor something of a grudge for quite a while. (Though not as much of a grudge if they kept the $20 + $30 pricing)
Jesus christ, I did not know so many retarded sheeps existed on TL these days. You guys are all "hell yeh, I'll happily pay 20$ for a season of crap low quality stream/vods". You guys are so easily fooled. No way in hell Im paying this or even watch such low quality. Very bad move.
This is the oldest trick in the book I think, making a horrible offer, which will make the next horrible offer look really good.
On September 04 2010 03:27 crappen wrote: Jesus christ, I did not know so many retarded sheeps existed on TL these days. You guys are all "hell yeh, I'll happily pay 20$ for a season of crap low quality stream/vods". You guys are so easily fooled. No way in hell Im paying this or even watch such low quality. Very bad move.
This is the oldest trick in the book I think, making a horrible offer, which will make the next horrible offer look really good.
On September 04 2010 03:27 crappen wrote: Jesus christ, I did not know so many retarded sheeps existed on TL these days. You guys are all "hell yeh, I'll happily pay 20$ for a season of crap low quality stream/vods". You guys are so easily fooled. No way in hell Im paying this or even watch such low quality. Very bad move.
This is the oldest trick in the book I think, making a horrible offer, which will make the next horrible offer look really good.
$20 one time is hardly a bad deal considering the sheer amount of games that will be made available to you live and on VOD. But I guess I'm just a 'retarded sheep'.
Now if the stream stability is sketch as we have seen in the past with GOM you may have a point.
The first offer was horrible. The second offer is reasonable, and not just in comparison to the first offer. Whether or not it was a marketing "trick" is irrelevant.
On September 04 2010 03:01 No_Roo wrote: This is of course good news however I am still pretty sure this was a deliberate manipulation attempt, and as such I will harbor something of a grudge for quite a while. (Though not as much of a grudge if they kept the $20 + $30 pricing)
yep lol, 50 bucks was so unreasonable its making 20 dollars seem reasonable. Silly people.
although i'm completely sure this was a marketing strategy to sucker people into paying a still semi-unreasonable amount of money, i'm just happy because there will actually be a free stream now.
On September 04 2010 03:27 crappen wrote: Jesus christ, I did not know so many retarded sheeps existed on TL these days. You guys are all "hell yeh, I'll happily pay 20$ for a season of crap low quality stream/vods". You guys are so easily fooled. No way in hell Im paying this or even watch such low quality. Very bad move.
This is the oldest trick in the book I think, making a horrible offer, which will make the next horrible offer look really good.
$20 one time is hardly a bad deal considering the sheer amount of games that will be made available to you live and on VOD. But I guess I'm just a 'retarded sheep'.
Now if the stream stability is sketch as we have seen in the past with GOM you may have a point.
The point is the streaming quality, I have more then enough cash to spit around, but I dont have more then enough time watching a low quality stream. So it is sad people settling for such low quality
On September 04 2010 03:27 crappen wrote: Jesus christ, I did not know so many retarded sheeps existed on TL these days. You guys are all "hell yeh, I'll happily pay 20$ for a season of crap low quality stream/vods". You guys are so easily fooled. No way in hell Im paying this or even watch such low quality. Very bad move.
This is the oldest trick in the book I think, making a horrible offer, which will make the next horrible offer look really good.
$20 one time is hardly a bad deal considering the sheer amount of games that will be made available to you live and on VOD. But I guess I'm just a 'retarded sheep'.
Now if the stream stability is sketch as we have seen in the past with GOM you may have a point.
The point is the streaming quality, I have more then enough cash to spit around, but I dont have more then enough time watching a low quality stream. So it is sad people settling for such low quality
20$ is not much for what you are getting, also I don't think stream quality will be a problem I just tested my connection and it's well above recommended levels
but you can also just watch the free stream I think gom did a great job with this!
Honestly, paying for vods and a rather low quality stream and getting an even lower quality stream for free is nothing to rejoice over. And considering the time of day that the games are being played I'm probably not going to be watching many of them so its really a pain that we can't get free vods :/
And the LQ isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be... it's actually not that bad
? It's pixelated garbage.
And if you don't notice a huge difference between LQ and HQ then something is wrong with your video. In LQ you can't even make out the letters while in HQ you kind of can. HQ isn't even that good so LQ is just garbage.
Seeing how many people are now buying, GOM did the right marketing move by first pretending to not offer a free stream and selling VODs and and stream seperatly. If they had offered it from the beginning probably less people would have bought it.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
>.< then watch the low quality stream if you are too cheap for the ticket.
also ufc is only 10000 times more well funded and sponsored than sc. That's a terrible comparison. Thats like saying "but i can watch basketball from my tv for free!" Actually my dad is watching soccer live on his pc as we speak, for free! omg!
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
>.< then watch the low quality stream if you are too cheap for the ticket.
also ufc is only 10000 times more well funded and sponsored than sc. That's a terrible comparison. Thats like saying "but i can watch basketball from my tv for free!" Actually my dad is watching soccer live on his pc as we speak, for free! omg!
Yea thats a good point. That's why i compared GOMTV to all those defunct MMA organizations that tried to compete with the UFC by offering extraordinarily large salaries and then failing to make profit. Maybe GOMTV shoulda thought about the budget before they announced out of this world prize pool.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
But they are screwing us much less than before. If you close your eyes it almost feels like there making love to us
And the LQ isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be... it's actually not that bad
250k lol. That's worse than most Livestream relays.
I'm not comparing it to Livestream though, i'm just saying its not like theres artifacting and shit all over the screen. I realize it's still pretty horrible quality, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be.. it's still watchable.
But of course I would never ever pay any amount of money to watch that crap, and they will also need to improve free quality if they want e-sports to be taken seriously at all.
It could be a marketing ploy you know, isn't pretty much how gaz price works? it goes freaken high, everyone complains, it goes higher, everyone complains even more then decreases a little bit then everyone is happy...
ill pay the 20. completely 100% reasonable. 20$ for vods and stream... completely worth it.
To be honest this is so incredibly awsome of them to do this. They actually listened to everyone and compromised and came up with a fair deal in my opinion. This is a very good sign of things to come, I think. It is very cool to know that they are actually reading and reacting to what everyone has to say, very rare in a business to go "u know they are right...". Truely good news imo.
I'll buy the season pass and get access to the VODs. I'd have to stay up until 3 a.m. if I wanted to watch the games live. $20 seems reasonable to me so I'm happy with the deal.
I decided to pay the 20 bucks after this came out. Not because of the vods or anything but because I appreciate what they are doing for the esports community. One good turn deserves another.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
But they are screwing us much less than before. If you close your eyes it almost feels like there making love to us
haha its not "making love" its just really really rough angry sex ?
It's a shame that the VODs won't be free, though. Often times I end up having to miss out on watching them live. I hopeI'm sure an enterprising individual will find a way to make them availible for free...
On September 04 2010 06:58 TyPsi5 wrote: I decided to pay the 20 bucks after this came out. Not because of the vods or anything but because I appreciate what they are doing for the esports community. One good turn deserves another.
haha pretty much me too ^_^ i don't mind paying 20 bucks for higher quality stream, but i think a free stream is really important for e-sports and i want as many people to be able to watch as possible so them providing a free stream actually made me pay up~~ that being said i think i would have pussied out on anything more that 20 bucks cause im kinda poor.. 20 bucks is really reasonable though.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
And to watch football (soccer...) each weekend I have to pay 32€ a month. HD version costs even more. 240$ for half a year. So 20$ for SC2 is not that expensive. People said they paid 10$ for the MLG weekend. Well.. that's 40$ a month - even more of a "ripoff" than gomTV...
If you dont want to pay - watch the free stream. Yeah, the quality sucks. But it is good enough.
To the "just ustream / livestream" - yeah. And then we get something similiar to day9s show #170 (?) where nothing works for ~45mins. And gomTV just says "we deliver the stream to ustream/livestream, the problem is at their end, not our buisness". Wonder what reactions they would get then....
It's still clearly unreasonable to pay that price simply for a months worth of vods, pretty sure thats more than my internet costs per month and its for not even pro players.
At least now somebody will probably just record the streams and release the vods for free without having to pay upfront first. Really glad GOM's caving in. I wish they'd just release their vods for free, but now that's it's not even going to be hard to find them for free I'm happy
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
And to watch football (soccer...) each weekend I have to pay 32€ a month. HD version costs even more. 240$ for half a year. So 20$ for SC2 is not that expensive. People said they paid 10$ for the MLG weekend. Well.. that's 40$ a month - even more of a "ripoff" than gomTV...
If you dont want to pay - watch the free stream. Yeah, the quality sucks. But it is good enough.
To the "just ustream / livestream" - yeah. And then we get something similiar to day9s show #170 (?) where nothing works for ~45mins. And gomTV just says "we deliver the stream to ustream/livestream, the problem is at their end, not our buisness". Wonder what reactions they would get then....
And to watch high quality, professional brood war for SEVEN full years I've had to pay exactly $0.00. Any amount of money is too much money to me.
Extremely happy to hear this! They're going to get WAY more people willing to pay 20$ for a HQ stream than they would have gotten for 30$ for any stream at all. Smart business move on their part.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
And to watch football (soccer...) each weekend I have to pay 32€ a month. HD version costs even more. 240$ for half a year. So 20$ for SC2 is not that expensive. People said they paid 10$ for the MLG weekend. Well.. that's 40$ a month - even more of a "ripoff" than gomTV...
If you dont want to pay - watch the free stream. Yeah, the quality sucks. But it is good enough.
To the "just ustream / livestream" - yeah. And then we get something similiar to day9s show #170 (?) where nothing works for ~45mins. And gomTV just says "we deliver the stream to ustream/livestream, the problem is at their end, not our buisness". Wonder what reactions they would get then....
:O Doesn't cost money to watch soccer/football for me, in the States. Other than cable of course. But that gives access to a ton of channels, not just one sport.
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
But they are screwing us much less than before. If you close your eyes it almost feels like there making love to us
I'm not sure I agree... I mean, I understand that they have to keep all the broke gamers happy or they'll lose some marketshare... but come on. We should really consider how much money and time it costs the company to create this business endeavor in the first place. If they don't get a good return on their investment, what's the point? They're not doing it to contribute to the community... that's for sure.
On September 04 2010 05:39 Sfydjklm wrote: Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
I don't think this is relevant either. If you have as many viewers as the UFC, and as many OTHER sources of income (e.g. ticket sales, ppv television, merchandising, ad buys) then you can create an economy of scale in which its acceptable to make very minimal profits from internet vods.
Compared to Gom's situation, Gom should be charging even more than they are if they want to make profits at a level which will sustain good gaming entertainment and competition for years to come.
Quick question, as I'm new to this community. Is this tournament, sponsored by GOM it seems, the first Korean SC2 tournament? How do I know which league is for SC1 and SC2? I'm really confused as you can probably tell.
Although this is an incredibly good move by GOM for SC2, and our community in general lets not forget they just days ago tried to rape us for all the gaming dollars they could regardless of how 'fair' the price was to us (the consumer/community). Let this be a reminder of the power of public outrage the next time ActiBlizz tries to pull some corporate 'might makes right' moves.
People are going to realize that the only way to watch the games without paying is to get up at 5 in the morning. As far as I am concerned we're still get shafted pretty hard by Gom. I imagine someone will put them on youtube but will TL allow it?
On September 04 2010 09:51 floor exercise wrote: People are going to realize that the only way to watch the games without paying is to get up at 5 in the morning. As far as I am concerned we're still get shafted pretty hard by Gom. I imagine someone will put them on youtube but will TL allow it?
since u live in canada...
you had to do the same thing to watch the world cup/olympics. Sorry the world doesnt revolve their schedule around your time zone... Earthshattering concept I'm sure.
Really? GOM can't provide anything higher than a measly 500kb stream for PAID users while people have been streaming SC2/BW @ >1500kb without charging anyone for quite a while now.
Their low quality stream is reminiscent of how internet video content was in the late 90s, we're in 2010 FFS.
still no vods which is disappointing, but at least there's a stream. Honestly though, I would've preferred the vods, because I may not be able to catch the whole thing live.
On September 04 2010 09:51 floor exercise wrote: People are going to realize that the only way to watch the games without paying is to get up at 5 in the morning. As far as I am concerned we're still get shafted pretty hard by Gom. I imagine someone will put them on youtube but will TL allow it?
since u live in canada...
you had to do the same thing to watch the world cup/olympics. Sorry the world doesnt revolve their schedule around your time zone... Earthshattering concept I'm sure.
His point is that VODs are not available. For the Olympics and World Cup they are (TV replays matches all the time).
The video quality they are offering is so terrible..might as well not watch to begin with. I hate being picky but like others have stated, us people that stream do so at 1500+ kbps. Even a stream at 700kbps would be totally manageable for GOM from both a logistic and financial standpoint.
On September 04 2010 10:37 Kenny wrote: The video quality they are offering is so terrible..might as well not watch to begin with. I hate being picky but like others have stated, us people that stream do so at 1500+ kbps. Even a stream at 700kbps would be totally manageable for GOM from both a logistic and financial standpoint.
They can stream the thing on livestream or ustream if they're that self conscious about streaming costs.
On September 04 2010 09:51 floor exercise wrote: People are going to realize that the only way to watch the games without paying is to get up at 5 in the morning. As far as I am concerned we're still get shafted pretty hard by Gom. I imagine someone will put them on youtube but will TL allow it?
since u live in canada...
you had to do the same thing to watch the world cup/olympics. Sorry the world doesnt revolve their schedule around your time zone... Earthshattering concept I'm sure.
This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen
I am aware of how timezones work. The point I was trying to convey was that vods are far more valuable to people outside of Korea than the ability to watch the games live for free. This concession of a free, horrible quality stream is marginalized even more so by the time zone difference. The community has for the longest time thrived on vods of Korean games than on the ability to watch them live. Only the relatively dedicated few watch games live unless they start early in Korea like proleague. Traditionally we post these vods, however given the new interest by Gom in foreign fans, TL might be against allowing youtube or some other means of redistribution of the vods without everyone paying Gom their $20 if they want to see the games.
Do you understand now? None of these concepts are quite as earth shattering as timezones, which you have indicated a profound grasp on, so I'm sure if you take your time you can understand the issue that I am raising.
You raise a valid point floor. I'm not sure but I think TL will deny any link to uploaded youtube captures of the HQ stream/VODs since they're suppose to be for paid subscribers.
On September 04 2010 09:22 Crushgroove wrote: I'm not sure I agree... I mean, I understand that they have to keep all the broke gamers happy or they'll lose some marketshare... but come on. We should really consider how much money and time it costs the company to create this business endeavor in the first place. If they don't get a good return on their investment, what's the point? They're not doing it to contribute to the community... that's for sure.
On September 04 2010 05:39 Sfydjklm wrote: Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
I don't think this is relevant either. If you have as many viewers as the UFC, and as many OTHER sources of income (e.g. ticket sales, ppv television, merchandising, ad buys) then you can create an economy of scale in which its acceptable to make very minimal profits from internet vods.
Compared to Gom's situation, Gom should be charging even more than they are if they want to make profits at a level which will sustain good gaming entertainment and competition for years to come.
that is correct from GOMs perspective but not the consumers. It's GOMs problem that they are not big enough, not the consumers. Theyre competing with real sports here becomes when a student on a budget will be choosing which to go with a UFC event with the buddies or watching grainy starcraft videos alone he will choose the UFC.
On September 04 2010 10:31 kariido wrote: Really? GOM can't provide anything higher than a measly 500kb stream for PAID users while people have been streaming SC2/BW @ >1500kb without charging anyone for quite a while now.
Their low quality stream is reminiscent of how internet video content was in the late 90s, we're in 2010 FFS.
According to the note from the OP, it's 500K (which equals 4000k), not 500 k.
Hey um the vods on GOMtv.net aren't working for me. Are they working for anyone else? Looking at the comments, it seems as if everyone is having trouble...
I'm glad it's been changed. I hope they make enough from ads to get the money they need (cough turn your ad blocker off cough). Well, now that it's free there is no way I'll miss it.
On September 04 2010 10:31 kariido wrote: Really? GOM can't provide anything higher than a measly 500kb stream for PAID users while people have been streaming SC2/BW @ >1500kb without charging anyone for quite a while now.
Their low quality stream is reminiscent of how internet video content was in the late 90s, we're in 2010 FFS.
According to the note from the OP, it's 500K (which equals 4000k), not 500 k.
"HQ Live streaming requires min. 650Kbps bandwidth."
i have no idea why the quality is that shitty and why they wont imply p2p and all that modern stuff that they use on gomtv.com. or at least raise quality a bit.
being foreigner i once managed to rip their live stream which was roughly around 150kb/s, here it is link and this is after bad utube recompression.
dunno if the bandwidth is really that big of a deal or they think those outside korea are still sitting on 33.6k modems lol
On September 04 2010 10:37 Kenny wrote: The video quality they are offering is so terrible..might as well not watch to begin with. I hate being picky but like others have stated, us people that stream do so at 1500+ kbps. Even a stream at 700kbps would be totally manageable for GOM from both a logistic and financial standpoint.
How do you know how terrible its going to be? kbps rate doesn't necessarily equate directly to quality. depends also on encoding etc. i stream some pretty high quality tv shows/movies (certainly watchable especially for free) at sub 500kbps stream rates.
they changed the stream settings HQ is now 650kbs and low quality is 450kbs. Im sure though that they will be upping it even more for later on events. Thanks GOMTV for the awesomeness.
The low quality stream looks fantastic atm and I have had no problems with lag or anything and I've had it up for like 30 minutes. Sucks about the HQ stream issues but I would recommend just watching the LQ for now .
nice i did it over and over and the last time when i was just joking around and typed "deathmachine" into the nickname it worked. I am now deathmachine.
Is there some sort of weird disconnect between the video and the commentary? Tasteless is talking about the techlab and their showing the zerg base with the spawning pool going down.....the video seems to be completely disconnected from what they're talking about..
On September 04 2010 04:40 Percutio wrote: 20 dollars is pretty good :D
u get ufc PPVs for like 10 dollars a pop. Given that you have friends. So no, 20 dollars is a freaking robbery. And before u say well GOMTV is cheaper if you have friends- the stream wil be unwatchable on any TV with decent inching.
errr... quick question - ufc ppvs are only for that one series right? i'd imagine 10 dollars for 4 hours of ufc is not an equivalent exchange to a month of starcraft 2 games
Okay lets approach it from a bit of different angle that is less controversial. A half a year subscription to UFC high quality video vault costs 60 bucks. 60 bucks for half a year. 60 bucks for half a year Gom is screwing you, fools.
And to watch football (soccer...) each weekend I have to pay 32€ a month. HD version costs even more.
You are right, apples are way cheaper then oranges...
i just wanna say that the stream is absolutely unwatchable if i am stupid enough to bother with the original gomtv site. i even downloaded the absolutely obsolete gomplayer (vlc player ftw) which i now have uninstalled again (no reason to junk your own pc with unnecessary crap).
i can only hope the gom staff will thank every restreamer for saving their ass as they screwed up delivering.
<3 restreamers
ps: if i had payed for that i would be so mad right now. i can only hope that for some reason the hq stream as no lag issues for you guys...
............... /facepalm < sums up my HQ experience... $20 well spent. I hope they fix there shit by next cast cause really this is unacceptable... I watched a restream over watching the product i payed for this is SO SAD and im SO PISSED rihgt now /nerdrage
Guys its the first time they streamed in over a year, so we all should have expected some hiccups from cross-country streaming. Give it a few days and lets see what they do to fix it.
On September 04 2010 20:07 dartoo wrote: Is there some sort of weird disconnect between the video and the commentary? Tasteless is talking about the techlab and their showing the zerg base with the spawning pool going down.....the video seems to be completely disconnected from what they're talking about..
A little late now, but the ob was drunk or something at the time.
I managed to see a total of about 4 minutes of the idra games. I really would like some vods. Come on GOM, there's no way that HD and husky should be able to release 1080 vods and you guys cant.
On September 04 2010 21:27 EpiCenteR wrote: Guys its the first time they streamed in over a year, so we all should have expected some hiccups from cross-country streaming. Give it a few days and lets see what they do to fix it.
ya cross-country streaming is like rockets science man.
Did USA have problems watching IEM streams ? nope did Europe have problems watching the MLG Stream ? nope
They just need to invest in better servers, having ppl who paid for the HQ stream watch Free LQ Restream is unacceptable.
On September 04 2010 21:27 EpiCenteR wrote: Guys its the first time they streamed in over a year, so we all should have expected some hiccups from cross-country streaming. Give it a few days and lets see what they do to fix it.
when, eg. incontrol and lzgamer have some problems with their stream it's fine, because they are doing this the first time and are no professional hosts
when, on the other hand, a big company which got exclusive rights to host a huge sc2-tournament screws up, it's a completely different story; I really tried hard to watch low quality "legit", but it simply didn't work; the gom-player kept crashing and furthermore I couldn't sign up at the homepage (several e-mail-adresses from me didn't work and I'm sure as hell not trying my official e-mail from work....)
On September 04 2010 21:27 EpiCenteR wrote: Guys its the first time they streamed in over a year, so we all should have expected some hiccups from cross-country streaming. Give it a few days and lets see what they do to fix it.
I don't buy this response at all.
GOM has thrown 4 major events for foreigners and every time to response has been large. On top of that, there's been countless indicators since SC2 came out from HDH's Youtube channel to D9D to MLG/IEM/KotBH/etc. that provide plenty of evidence that the foreigner response would be huge. And to be honest, it wasn't even as large as it normally is. This was 6AM East coast, 3AM West coast and the streams were terrible.
Not simply poor quality but a number of us missed entire games because the stream would be behind and then jump ahead and then jump behind again. By the time IdrA's G1 ended, my stream was just getting started. Before his ling speed could finish, the stream jumped to the start of G2. 5 minutes later, it warped 30 minutes back in time to the Kpop performance. This was a paid HQ stream.
The only streamer who wasn't having problems last night was Cella, and that's where I had to watch it. No idea what Tasteless or Artosis were saying.
And to be honest, it wasn't even as large as it normally is. This was 6AM East coast, 3AM West coast and the streams were terrible.
well, don't underestimate the size of the european community.....the games started for us at around 1 PM on a saturday after all
Fair point.
One thing that just occurred to me is that GOM doesn't really need to appeal to foreigners in any special way. They could give us a 250kb stream and nothing else, and the results would be similar.
Look at it this way, most of the viewers are already fans through TL/MLG/ESL/etc. There isn't some mysterious market of foreign fans who aren't interested in competitive SC2 until there's a Korean tournament; most of us who are committed were already so before this morning. Among those of us interested, how many are actually willing to boycott the #1 event to date simply because of customer service and stream quality?
I'm a fan of competitive SC2 and GSL has the best players in it therefore I want to watch GSL above any other competition. They could serve me a 250kb stream only and I'd complain about it, but I'd still watch and keep track. So I don't think GOM is actually at risk of losing the foreigner community, it's only Koreans they need to worry about They can do as they please and we'll follow. :/
On September 06 2010 17:38 bakedace wrote: so is re-streaming legal?
Originally when GOM didn't offer a free streaming service they proclaimed their intent to stop free restreaming (which would have been difficult for them practically, but would have posed some problems for TL, ie would the mods be forced to drop the banhammer on people posting restream links, etc). However with them offering a free stream they seem to have chosen to turn a blind eye toward it, and with their first broadcast even encourage it by posting links to restreams on their forums, as it lessened the load on their servers. So it seems to be OK with them, in fact encouraged, for now.
On September 05 2010 03:32 nitdkim wrote: uhhh... i just noticed something about bnet and tourneys... so if Bnet is in maintanence, tourney delayed? lol
I don't think this will be an issue for the GSL since it's basically Blizzard's tournament.
Others might suffer. Though I doubt Blizzard would time maintenance during a tournament of note. (IEM/ESL, MLG, etc.)
On September 06 2010 17:38 bakedace wrote: so is re-streaming legal?
Originally when GOM didn't offer a free streaming service they proclaimed their intent to stop free restreaming (which would have been difficult for them practically, but would have posed some problems for TL, ie would the mods be forced to drop the banhammer on people posting restream links, etc). However with them offering a free stream they seem to have chosen to turn a blind eye toward it, and with their first broadcast even encourage it by posting links to restreams on their forums, as it lessened the load on their servers. So it seems to be OK with them, in fact encouraged, for now.
I wonder what they think when people start uploading HQ vod recordings to megaupload etc.
The price sounds reasonable though, ill give them a shot.
On September 06 2010 17:38 bakedace wrote: so is re-streaming legal?
Originally when GOM didn't offer a free streaming service they proclaimed their intent to stop free restreaming (which would have been difficult for them practically, but would have posed some problems for TL, ie would the mods be forced to drop the banhammer on people posting restream links, etc). However with them offering a free stream they seem to have chosen to turn a blind eye toward it, and with their first broadcast even encourage it by posting links to restreams on their forums, as it lessened the load on their servers. So it seems to be OK with them, in fact encouraged, for now.
edit: It's confirmed to be illegal edit2: It was announced live by tasteless
It sucks for us that needs sleep and can't watch the stream at the same time. Oh well, I guess I gotta find some other turneys to watch :\ A shame though, the other series on GoM was great, but im not paying for a sponsored event..
Is it just me or does the live stream not work? I'm even running a Korean version Windows and I can't get the Gom player to run the stream link. :/ I was trying to watch the stream yesterday and I gave up after 10 minutes and just went to sleep.
But for those who might have been able to watch: does the live stream let you watch all of the matches for free unlike the VOD where you have to pay to watch beyond the first match?
On September 07 2010 03:39 han. wrote: Is it just me or does the live stream not work? I'm even running a Korean version Windows and I can't get the Gom player to run the stream link. :/ I was trying to watch the stream yesterday and I gave up after 10 minutes and just went to sleep.
But for those who might have been able to watch: does the live stream let you watch all of the matches for free unlike the VOD where you have to pay to watch beyond the first match?
Yes, if you are watching during the original live cast, you get to see everything on the free stream (provided that you get it working and it doesn't crash for you).
On September 06 2010 17:38 bakedace wrote: so is re-streaming legal?
Originally when GOM didn't offer a free streaming service they proclaimed their intent to stop free restreaming (which would have been difficult for them practically, but would have posed some problems for TL, ie would the mods be forced to drop the banhammer on people posting restream links, etc). However with them offering a free stream they seem to have chosen to turn a blind eye toward it, and with their first broadcast even encourage it by posting links to restreams on their forums, as it lessened the load on their servers. So it seems to be OK with them, in fact encouraged, for now.
edit: It's confirmed to be illegal edit2: It was announced live by tasteless
Yeah, I was wrong. On day 1 there were posts in their forums for restreams, and their stream just didn't work, was the only option for alot of people. They seem to have fixed most of their issues though, their stream only crashed once on me last night, and given it's a multiple hour cast this isn't much different then Ustream to be honest. So they are now definitely asserting they don't want restreams now.
Thank god for GOM, even though I'm used to watching a stream of a stream, it gets kind of old, especially when the streamer starts lagging, and one streamer gets a gg while the one you're watching is about a minute behind.
Couldn't make sense of the GOMTV webpage, does buying the daypass give you HQ stream for that day? Only the season-pass for $20 mentions anything about the HQ stream so that made me unsure. Really would like the HQ stream for the games on Friday but don't feel like buying the season pass yet. Would like to see the quality and such first!
Hopefully in the coming seasons GOM will be able to offer free streams and VODs by advertising or getting sponsors. It was really nice having all three GOM classic seasons and the invitational have free vods.
On September 09 2010 07:07 Bj_o_rn wrote: Couldn't make sense of the GOMTV webpage, does buying the daypass give you HQ stream for that day? Only the season-pass for $20 mentions anything about the HQ stream so that made me unsure. Really would like the HQ stream for the games on Friday but don't feel like buying the season pass yet. Would like to see the quality and such first!
There are sample videos of the quality.
In regards to your question, yes, you get access to HQ stream if you buy the one day pass.
On September 09 2010 10:09 St. Fu wrote: Hopefully in the coming seasons GOM will be able to offer free streams and VODs by advertising or getting sponsors. It was really nice having all three GOM classic seasons and the invitational have free vods.
I'm ambivalent on this issue. I would much rather pay $20 / month to watch VODs and a HQ stream than to watch hours of ads per month; however, I do see the value of a free stream and VOD service. It simply opens up the market that much more.
Personally, I'm fine with this PPV model. It gives GOM a much needed revenue stream and the quality of the broadcast and entertainment has been top notch. You have a repeat customer here GOM. Now if you could just make it so the foreigners win this a few times
A question to those who've paid for the HQ stream - how is it? Reliable?
I've been watching re-streams so far but honestly, this is such top level entertainment that I'm gonna get myself a real ticket just to support. 20 bucks is definitely worth it. That, and a HQ stream would be awesome too ofc.
this season i really wanted to buy season pass, but can't rly afford it.
The next season im just not gonna bother. The stream and vods on their website just have been terrible for me, and no don't give me any crap about my connection, its their servers etc.. basicly their service thats bad.
I would happily pay for a good service, i paid for esl.tv and it has been awesome, maybe its cause their servers are in EU i don't know. But for sure i know i wont buy gom for a long time and as long as they give such a crappy service its their own fault!! dont blame restreamers when ur original strem sucks lol!!
With the exception of the first day, the HQ stream has been very reliable for me. The commentating has been top notch and the play has been entertaining. I live in Portland, OR and my connection has been great to the GOM server.
I can't comment for everyone but I'm happy with their service.
Is anyone being able to watch the stream, and streaming it too? I'm not trying to get high quality for free, just the free version. The GOM player crashed and now I get the message 'Too many connections'... Yay for GOM
Can anyone help? I tried watching the VOD of super GSL on GOMtv.net but I only had the loading screen forever. I signed up and signed in. I installed GOM player. I am not trying to watch the HQ vod, but the LQ ones. Aren't they free to watch?
On June 10 2011 14:13 bonedriven wrote: Can anyone help? I tried watching the VOD of super GSL on GOMtv.net but I only had the loading screen forever. I signed up and signed in. I installed GOM player. I am not trying to watch the HQ vod, but the LQ ones. Aren't they free to watch?
EPT
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yeah it may not be the best to pay for, but the quality will likely go up as they can afford it.
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