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On November 19 2010 07:53 HuHEN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:58 Sl4ktarN wrote:On November 19 2010 06:50 Philip2110 wrote:
Painuser made me facepalm so much. Entertaining podcast though.
Lol'd when he said Dt>Banshee They are good for different things and different situations. Can people stop bitching about which unit is "better"? Thats just not true though, they perform almost exactly the same role, only banshees do it better.
They're both better harass units than anything Zerg has.
I think PainUser's point that the banshees can be acquired smoothly without compromising your entire build was what put's banshees over the top.
If DT's were somehow easier to tech to, or if Protoss had an easier time denying scouting, than maybe DT's and banshees would be comparable in effectiveness.
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I feel like the whole TvP discussion would have gone better if Day9 was there. I feel like PainUser was ganged up on. Though I know that wasn't Tyler's/IncontroL's intention, just the fact that it was 2 against 1 made it that way. It also seemed like every time PainUser tried to make a point IncontroL would just blow it off and patronize PU. Overall it was a good discussion though, and I think both sides made some great points.
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Sometimes in these debates it just seems IncontroL has already made up his mind going into the debate and no counter-evidence will change his mind. Although PU said some pretty strange things regarding banshee vs. DT, I thought a lot of his points were just flat out rejected by IC based on preconceived notions of the situation without taking PU's new perspective into account.
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On November 19 2010 10:02 GP wrote:
I feel like the whole TvP discussion would have gone better if Day9 was there. I feel like PainUser was ganged up on. Though I know that wasn't Tyler's/IncontroL's intention, just the fact that it was 2 against 1 made it that way. It also seemed like every time PainUser tried to make a point IncontroL would just blow it off and patronize PU. Overall it was a good discussion though, and I think both sides made some great points.
Oh man, I think the discussion would have been WORSE if Day 9 were there.
What was great about PainUser as a guest was that was willing to actually argue and outright disagree with InControl and Nony. And reference a line from Bad Boys. Do you know how impressive that shit was? That movie came out almost twenty years ago.
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On November 19 2010 10:06 nvs. wrote:
Sometimes in these debates it just seems IncontroL has already made up his mind going into the debate and no counter-evidence will change his mind. Although PU said some pretty strange things regarding banshee vs. DT, I thought a lot of his points were just flat out rejected by IC based on preconceived notions of the situation without taking PU's new perspective into account.
So true.
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On November 19 2010 09:17 ZerOfy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 09:01 desrow wrote:
I'm sad they didnt gave us zealots from bw. At least moving protoss army wouldn't be such a hassle since zealots would be in front of the stalkers. I wish blizz would prevent concusive shell from slowing the charged zealot =) What was the Zealots base speed (without leg enhancements) in Brood War? They seem much slower in SC2, unless I'm imagining it.
It's difficult to straight compare stats between the two games because they operate on slightly different scales of time and space. Relative to other BW units, the Zealot was god-awfully slow and got kited all to hell by units like stimmed Marines, Vultures, Dragoons, Hydralisks, etc. Still, their base speed was high enough that microing with slow Marines and Hydralisks was very demanding. With leg enhancements, they could hunt down or force very intensive micro from almost all ground prey, except speed Vultures. I feel like BW leg enhancements gave a relatively larger base speed boost than SC2 charge's passive speed boost.
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On November 19 2010 10:06 nvs. wrote:
Sometimes in these debates it just seems IncontroL has already made up his mind going into the debate and no counter-evidence will change his mind. Although PU said some pretty strange things regarding banshee vs. DT, I thought a lot of his points were just flat out rejected by IC based on preconceived notions of the situation without taking PU's new perspective into account.
The thing is PU didnt have too good of an argument,because banshees are used WAY more than DT's and are more successful. No one can argue that. I would completly have to side with the protosses on the banshee/DT debate, and I play with all three races.
Though what you say about IC is probably true :3
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Actually, Day9 hates Bancheese with a passion and would of probably lol'ed at PainUser as well =(
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i play terran and i agree with InC and Tyler that the banshee is a safer and more useful tech path then the DT.
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On November 19 2010 07:11 MavercK wrote:
i kind of stopped listening after painuser suggested carriers were good against marines.
i dont think hes seen how quick 6+ carriers worth of interceptors evaporates against a stimmed marine ball.
yes the carriers themselves are quite tanky against marine fire but that means nothing when the interceptors are gone after 1 volley and it can't attack.
but very entertaining podcast irregardless
he didn't say that. He said marines are good against carrier, but that doesn't matter because marines dies to ground force before they can kill a carrier.
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I really love that they pretty much openly mock the people arguing in the threads but you guys don't let it stop you.
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On November 19 2010 10:42 Priapus wrote:
I really love that they pretty much openly mock the people arguing in the threads but you guys don't let it stop you.
Yeah well i love how hypocritical it is of the guys who spend 3hours debating and discussing starcraft to then laugh at listeners who spend 5minutes adding their 2cents to the discussion.
Its almost as if they are suprised after spending 45minutes on a topic such as extended series that the listeners have their own opinions on it they might want to put forth. Its kinda strange how they don't embrace and encourage listeners to add to the discussion, i mean if the topics are that uninteresting and unimportant why are they even brought up on the podcast in the first place.
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"carrier, void ray, psionic storm to counter space marines? i'll check that out"
lmao geoff you're fucking hilarious. i'd like to see painuser work his way up to this composition.
"i'd rather have a dt than a banshee."
-painuser
"jesus christ" /face palms
-incontrol
"i drop a scan on a banshee and it flutters away like a fuck! like aha! i'm going to go over here and repair"
-incontrol
lmao epic back and forth between these two.
straight up if a terran goes banshees and a protoss goes dts the terran will obviously* win with scans and tech to get a raven immediately, where as no detection will be coming for the toss any time soon
edited obs to obviously for clairity
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On November 19 2010 11:08 timbo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 10:42 Priapus wrote:
I really love that they pretty much openly mock the people arguing in the threads but you guys don't let it stop you. Yeah well i love how hypocritical it is of the guys who spend 3hours debating and discussing starcraft to then laugh at listeners who spend 5minutes adding their 2cents to the discussion. Its almost as if they are suprised after spending 45minutes on a topic such as extended series that the listeners have their own opinions on it they might want to put forth. Its kinda strange how they don't embrace and encourage listeners to add to the discussion, i mean if the topics are that uninteresting and unimportant why are they even brought up on the podcast in the first place.
Not to pick sides, but, it might have something to do with the fact that they're all professional gamers and majority of people here are barely platinum players who think they deserve to be in diamond.  Not that their opinion are completely obsolete, it however does hold a lot less merit.
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On November 19 2010 10:10 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 10:02 GP wrote:
I feel like the whole TvP discussion would have gone better if Day9 was there. I feel like PainUser was ganged up on. Though I know that wasn't Tyler's/IncontroL's intention, just the fact that it was 2 against 1 made it that way. It also seemed like every time PainUser tried to make a point IncontroL would just blow it off and patronize PU. Overall it was a good discussion though, and I think both sides made some great points. Oh man, I think the discussion would have been WORSE if Day 9 were there. What was great about PainUser as a guest was that was willing to actually argue and outright disagree with InControl and Nony. And reference a line from Bad Boys. Do you know how impressive that shit was? That movie came out almost twenty years ago.
I don't think its a matter of having a good or bad discussion, its just being able to see everything from every point of view.
I just remember another time when I think there were 2-3 p players on and they were talking about a zerg nerf/buff. And the zerg point of view had no defending possibility. While I love listening to these guys and their opinions, its nice to hear debate rather than just a position.
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On the hosts' supposed mockery of forum-goers:
I felt that their discussion of ignoring forum posts sprang from the mention of all the random, unreasoned hate that simply happens whenever a high profile individual in a community does or fails to do anything of note. If I recall, they were originally discussing Tyler's loss in the TL Open, then the negative feedback he received because of it, then Incontrol began explaining that the trend of trashing top players for every little thing alienates them from the community at large.
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On November 19 2010 09:50 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 07:53 HuHEN wrote:On November 19 2010 06:58 Sl4ktarN wrote:On November 19 2010 06:50 Philip2110 wrote:
Painuser made me facepalm so much. Entertaining podcast though.
Lol'd when he said Dt>Banshee They are good for different things and different situations. Can people stop bitching about which unit is "better"? Thats just not true though, they perform almost exactly the same role, only banshees do it better. They're both better harass units than anything Zerg has.
I would take mutas over DT's any day.
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Mutas, Ling run-bys if your depots are down. baneling drops, burrowed infestors (catz does this quite a bit) are all pretty sweet harass options for zerg, not sure who's complaining immensely about that...
On November 19 2010 08:37 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 08:35 Jayrod wrote:
Does anyone know where Painuser is from? Is he a canadian player? Also why is he called T. Pain? Is his first name also tylor or something? Taylor, yep.
He's from Northern california not canada lol, and yeah I guess T Pain is JP's nickname for him.
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On November 19 2010 11:29 EchOne wrote:
On the hosts' supposed mockery of forum-goers:
I felt that their discussion of ignoring forum posts sprang from the mention of all the random, unreasoned hate that simply happens whenever a high profile individual in a community does or fails to do anything of note. If I recall, they were originally discussing Tyler's loss in the TL Open, then the negative feedback he received because of it, then Incontrol began explaining that the trend of trashing top players for every little thing alienates them from the community at large.
I think players are just going to have to accept if e-sports ever hopes to be legit then players will cop a heck of a lot of criticism for their play. That's what happens with real sports, fans really get involved and spend a large amount of time picking apart their favourite players.
If that alienates the players from the fans then so what? I don't think you'll find LeBron James answering his critics on the realgm.com message boards. 
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"We ride together, we die together; bad boys fo' life" - Painuser
At that point I completely lost it =P
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EPT
