Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2365

On November 24 2010 11:16 avilo wrote:


Hello, that's debateable, you lose to players you shouldn't because you're immature and stubborn, so what?

Put up some arguments, or do something more useful, like practice ZvZ for GSL.

On November 26 2010 04:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think avilo's style of arguing invalidates his points. basically he writes some stuff that is correct but then as a direct consequence of blatant exaggeration it actually becomes incorrect. (as "zerg is advantaged if they reach the lategame unpunished" is a very different statement from "zerg is invincible unless they're killed early". )

and watching someone butcher their own valid arguement like this is to me quite saddening.

the fact is that the new special abilities of all the races (queen+ creep bonus for zerg, mule for terran and chrono boost for protoss) are all overpowered at certain stages of the game.
mules are ridiculously good in situations where both players are short on peons (meaning that terran players should inherently be aiming for a low-econ style of play.. this is something that has been mentioned many times, but apparently not sufficiently grasped by some - 50 peons vs 50 peons means that each mule is hardly of any importance, 6 peons vs 6 peons means one mule gives one player twice the income.)
creep suddenly being a resource means that zerg units have to be either too good on creep or not good enough away from creep - now that zergs are finally starting to do a good job creeping we see the consequences. additionally, this obviously is a lategame boost because more creep will normally be spread the further into the game we go.
queens being worth more than a hatchery in production capabilities, and being able to make infinite larvea in late game, is definitely overpowered in a situation where both players are at limit and where both players have a lot of resources saved up. there's no question about this.

as for protoss, chrono boost has left protoss fucked over because the one area where chrono boost really shines - allowing them to tech to something or attain a unit combination really really fast - has been nerfed through increased build time or nerfing of those units.. in late game it's practically worthless compared to what mules and queens can do.

but, this is nothing new to the starcraft franchise. for years of brood war the counter to mass carrier in tvp was "don't let him get there". a mere couple months ago the counter to a turtled 200 200 terran in zvt sc2 was "don't let him get there". on destination in bw the exact same scenario also had the same counter, "don't let him get there". prior to 3/3 200/200 mech becoming popular in bw, terrans on the other hand had to play a "don't let him get there" style of play with regard to zergs having 4+ gas mining with defiler tech.

so basically, deal with it. if you're unhappy with your chosen race happening to be one that needs to rely upon harassment and which thrives in low-econ style games, change race. the game is a couple months old and is aiming at a lifespan nearing eternity. when races are as different as they are in bw or sc2, they will be stronger in different scenarios. zerg's biggest singular advantage compared to terran or protoss is their ability to spend huge amounts of resources in a short amount of time, terran has the advantage that it's impossible to attack them cost-efficiently and that all of their crap can be healed or repaired quickly, protoss has the ability to warp units anywhere on the map.. avilo has a point but he's arguing it in such an off-putting way that he's actually de-convincing people and I can't say I'm very sympathetic towards him.