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On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his.
I know several people who have been killed, in cold blood. Maybe my moral and ethics are off but I think the taking of life is a worse crime than a rape.
Should I be offended when someone says "wow that engagement ended in a complete slaughter"
or "he just got murdered"
Because I am not.
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Language is used how ever it is used.
People should be aware of connotations.
If i yell banana every time I want to cuss then banana is a swear word to me.
If i yell this guys suffering from a serious case of the niggeritous when i so choose that word means something different.
Be sensitive and courteous and be a good person. Say what ever you want.
Try not to hurt peoples feelings.
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On June 04 2011 02:07 emesen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his. I know several people who have been killed, in cold blood. Maybe my moral and ethics are off but I think the taking of life is a worse crime than a rape. Should I be offended when someone says "wow that engagement ended in a complete slaughter" or "he just got murdered" Because I am not.
word
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On June 04 2011 00:44 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 00:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 03 2011 15:56 SSLPrism wrote:On June 03 2011 15:50 Rabiator wrote:On June 03 2011 15:39 SSLPrism wrote:I thought the appropriate language talk was very hypocritical from some of the people involved, not just when they defended that certain words were ok while others werent, the fact that they've used the same terminology before. For example, I was going to an old clan war thread to look for some information, and found this post on this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164034¤tpage=4"Motbob you are retarded lol Criticizing someone's play IS 100% exactly what I JUST THIS THREAD said was fine. It was as fucking constructive as it gets. If I said "LOLOLOL SELECT SUCKS" I would be doing what that comment says. jesus fucking christ I shouldn't reply to this trash but I can't help it." Maybe I'm just alone in thinking part of this episode was very ironic/hypocritical. I think that some people went too far in the past (just look at some of Day9's early casts) and slowly realize that using such childish immature swearing language actually doesnt make you a grown up adult. Trying to change your habits does take time, so only the future will tell if iNcontrol stops swearing (not even using it for those aggressive jokes he loves) and wasnt hypocritical or if he doesnt do it and was hypocritical. Personally I hope for the first. There are just some people who have realized the importance of language, while others dont care or want to be the 13 year old rebels who use "forbidden words" to make themselves sound more grown up. Well here is a hint: you dont sound more grown up, you just sound dumber than you might be. Just try it yourself ... dont use "shit" and "fuck" at all for a week and see how easy it is. It isnt if you were used to using those words reguarly, so it isnt a "flip the switch" thing. To respond to your last statement/question/proposition, I don't feel the need to change my vocabulary, I'm confident in saying shit, fuck, I'm also completely fine with others using "Rape" "Retard", because I just ignore it/block it out. Basically I'm confident in my vocabulary, you don't need random "intellectual words" and not curse to be a smart person, just be confident in the language you use. Theres absolutely no need to change your vocabulary to a 'false' vocabulary if that is not who you are, doing so would result in you being someone you truly aren't. Streamers / casters are responsibile for what they say and thats the issue here. People will claim "freedom of expression" and "not wanting to use false words", but they are still responsible. You know why TV presenters dont say certain words and why they are BEEPed when they are said anyways. Its because your culture has its standards set in a certain way. Just because the internet is a "lawless" and "worldwide" open space doesnt mean you should sink to the lowest standard and be a shittalking idiot who makes nigger jokes (or whatever insulting stuff you can imagine) just to get famous for doing so. That will probably only work for a short time anyways, because once certain organizations catch wind of it they will raise hell to stop it ... we both live in germany, i consider... in germany you are allowed to use (almost) every expressions you want - and thats fine. fuck, shit, rape would never been "beeped out". Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 00:22 Rabiator wrote:There is also the second level of the responsibility towards the viewers. Just like rappers or other street artist behaviours have influenced youth the commentaries of streamers / casters will shape the language of their fans. Saying "they dont have to talk like I do" is stupid, because it isnt a conscious decision. Thats what these people have to realize ... and it is exactly where their responsibility lies. i dont want fans who think that there are "bad" words. they probably should stay in their church and get raped by their authorities, as they are raping them over and over hundrets of years with their double moral standards, but anyways... if certain authorities "raise hell to stop it" enventually you did something right. to be critical and to ask your fans to be criticical thinking about what they hear is a good thing, i think.
I believe in Germany its still hard to talk about the NAZI's or Holocaust. So if someone was to say those Terrans are sure acting like the NAZIs and exterminating those Zergling. i bet there would be alot who take offense. HMMMMM
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1:00:00 (approx) "Idra, you can't blame protoss this time..."Idra hadn't spoken for 15 minutes other than one word nods and agreements.
Idra: "Zerg is still bad." rofl- pure gold
Oh, and about that censorship discussion, it's fine with me to let people do whatever they want, but people will have diverging paths. Like the Artosis:ESPN; Destiny:STARZ analogy made earlier, people will choose the content appropriate for them. I think if Starcraft, in general, chooses to remain as is, it will be the equivalent of an R rated movie, and those movies generally make less money than the PG-13s. But like HBO, it still has an audience which pays money to view the content.
In other words, I don't wish to force anything on anyone, but I think e-sports/Starcraft will grow the most if it attempts to conform to more professional behavior. If not, it will stay in more of a niche market.
The fact is, there is no one person or even small group of people that represents what direction e-sports should move. There are options, the money will tell the story.
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On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his.
You also used rape in your post a number of times. Was this inconsiderate towards your partner that was raped in the past? And you did use the word in its sexual connotation. But again, context makes its use ok, right?
And on another point, your "the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest" just gives a glimpse of your own bigotry. You're bashing a huge set of people because of your dislike that Destiny said on a stream infront of 5k people "i raped that marine".
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On June 04 2011 02:07 emesen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his. I know several people who have been killed, in cold blood. Maybe my moral and ethics are off but I think the taking of life is a worse crime than a rape. Should I be offended when someone says "wow that engagement ended in a complete slaughter" or "he just got murdered" Because I am not.
No you shouldn't because THAT IS what's happening on the screen. The marine is getting killed. Saying he gets murdered can not be an inappropriate metaphor, because it's not a metaphor, it's an accurate description of what is happening to that marine.
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On June 04 2011 22:14 svarog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his. You also used rape in your post a number of times. Was this inconsiderate towards your partner that was raped in the past? And you did use the word in its sexual connotation. But again, context makes its use ok, right? And on another point, your "the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest" just gives a glimpse of your own bigotry. You're bashing a huge set of people because of your dislike that Destiny said on a stream infront of 5k people "i raped that marine".
Hahaha are you fucking kidding me??? Me in this post saying the word rape is equivalent to someone basically replacing "owned" with it? Sorry man but you're an idiot. That notion is only reinforced because you have no idea of what I'm talking about when I speak of living in the Midwest like Destiny, (Hint: I'm not talking about the word rape, gg gtfo) it is a REGULAR occurance to have people never seeing more black people than you can count on two hands or never having any black friends and then they think it's cool to say the word nigger or nigga because they've never been made to feel uncomfortable about it's use. I know this because I come across people like this all the TIME, I've lived in the Midwest and Texas for 10 years dude.
Edit: What I would really like to see from someone is why they think it is so essential to use these two specific words mentioned, and why they think there will be a negative impact from those words NOT being used in casual use.
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On June 04 2011 22:18 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:07 emesen wrote:On June 04 2011 01:47 BlueLantern wrote:
Hey guys let's all shout rape and nigger if it makes us who we are then that should totally be ok! Fuck the feelings of anyone who has been negatively affected by either one of those terms (Destiny has no idea what it feels like to be cautious as a woman at night for fear of sexual assault, and no conception of the inferiority placed on a person when referred to as "nigger")!
I'm glad his thought process was so developed on the matter that he decided to represent himself as a person who would be compromised if he couldn't shout his precious racial slur. Being in a relationship with someone for a number of years who has been raped, I think Destiny is an absolutely disgusting person to try to justify his use of words like those mentioned above with that line of reasoning. Probably the result of living in bumfuck Nebraska or wherever in the Midwest, I'm sure all he sees are white faces like his. I know several people who have been killed, in cold blood. Maybe my moral and ethics are off but I think the taking of life is a worse crime than a rape. Should I be offended when someone says "wow that engagement ended in a complete slaughter" or "he just got murdered" Because I am not. No you shouldn't because THAT IS what's happening on the screen. The marine is getting killed. Saying he gets murdered can not be an inappropriate metaphor, because it's not a metaphor, it's an accurate description of what is happening to that marine.
by your own logic, it would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable to use rape metaphors as much as anyone wanted to if the game was about rape
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On June 04 2011 02:20 Justanx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 00:44 The Void wrote:On June 04 2011 00:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 03 2011 15:56 SSLPrism wrote:On June 03 2011 15:50 Rabiator wrote:On June 03 2011 15:39 SSLPrism wrote:I thought the appropriate language talk was very hypocritical from some of the people involved, not just when they defended that certain words were ok while others werent, the fact that they've used the same terminology before. For example, I was going to an old clan war thread to look for some information, and found this post on this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164034¤tpage=4"Motbob you are retarded lol Criticizing someone's play IS 100% exactly what I JUST THIS THREAD said was fine. It was as fucking constructive as it gets. If I said "LOLOLOL SELECT SUCKS" I would be doing what that comment says. jesus fucking christ I shouldn't reply to this trash but I can't help it." Maybe I'm just alone in thinking part of this episode was very ironic/hypocritical. I think that some people went too far in the past (just look at some of Day9's early casts) and slowly realize that using such childish immature swearing language actually doesnt make you a grown up adult. Trying to change your habits does take time, so only the future will tell if iNcontrol stops swearing (not even using it for those aggressive jokes he loves) and wasnt hypocritical or if he doesnt do it and was hypocritical. Personally I hope for the first. There are just some people who have realized the importance of language, while others dont care or want to be the 13 year old rebels who use "forbidden words" to make themselves sound more grown up. Well here is a hint: you dont sound more grown up, you just sound dumber than you might be. Just try it yourself ... dont use "shit" and "fuck" at all for a week and see how easy it is. It isnt if you were used to using those words reguarly, so it isnt a "flip the switch" thing. To respond to your last statement/question/proposition, I don't feel the need to change my vocabulary, I'm confident in saying shit, fuck, I'm also completely fine with others using "Rape" "Retard", because I just ignore it/block it out. Basically I'm confident in my vocabulary, you don't need random "intellectual words" and not curse to be a smart person, just be confident in the language you use. Theres absolutely no need to change your vocabulary to a 'false' vocabulary if that is not who you are, doing so would result in you being someone you truly aren't. Streamers / casters are responsibile for what they say and thats the issue here. People will claim "freedom of expression" and "not wanting to use false words", but they are still responsible. You know why TV presenters dont say certain words and why they are BEEPed when they are said anyways. Its because your culture has its standards set in a certain way. Just because the internet is a "lawless" and "worldwide" open space doesnt mean you should sink to the lowest standard and be a shittalking idiot who makes nigger jokes (or whatever insulting stuff you can imagine) just to get famous for doing so. That will probably only work for a short time anyways, because once certain organizations catch wind of it they will raise hell to stop it ... we both live in germany, i consider... in germany you are allowed to use (almost) every expressions you want - and thats fine. fuck, shit, rape would never been "beeped out". On June 04 2011 00:22 Rabiator wrote:There is also the second level of the responsibility towards the viewers. Just like rappers or other street artist behaviours have influenced youth the commentaries of streamers / casters will shape the language of their fans. Saying "they dont have to talk like I do" is stupid, because it isnt a conscious decision. Thats what these people have to realize ... and it is exactly where their responsibility lies. i dont want fans who think that there are "bad" words. they probably should stay in their church and get raped by their authorities, as they are raping them over and over hundrets of years with their double moral standards, but anyways... if certain authorities "raise hell to stop it" enventually you did something right. to be critical and to ask your fans to be criticical thinking about what they hear is a good thing, i think. I believe in Germany its still hard to talk about the NAZI's or Holocaust. So if someone was to say those Terrans are sure acting like the NAZIs and exterminating those Zergling. i bet there would be alot who take offense. HMMMMM
Actually its not hard to talk about nazis or the holocaust at all, but making bad jokes about it obviously is.
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Wow, a lot of people here obviously does not know a lot about this magical thing called "real world".
Just for clarification:
-If a multiplayer game is centered around a man raping a woman, then if you commentate it, yep, you will be "forced" to use the word rape. The problem then would not be using rape, but promoting games like that itself.
-'Rape' not equals the word 'kill' or 'death'. Rape word is a post-traumatic trigger word. Look it up, research the topic a bit, because those who do not get what is the big deal about it obviously cant get it when they are not suspectible to this effect.
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Read through this thread and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. Out right declaring yourself better than other players whether it's true or not (debatable in this case) isn't very appealing. Also declaring a team a joke when they are trying to get into the korean scene is harsh. If EG is so amazing (which you are) why don't you guys go over to Korea. If you don't want to then why redicule a team that made a decision to branch out, whether they are successful or not. I just found Geoff's attitude to be a stark contrast to that I've come to love on SotG and was disappointed that the faceless people on the internet that he has discussed so much on SotG got the better of him. =(
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Guys zerg is so bad that there is 9 of them in the top 16, this is a rather compelling argument... But, i can't wait till the next sotg and i really do hope they focus on MLG (which i assume they will do).
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The next time Idra is on SotG, during the Q&A, someone please ask him if he thinks he's ever lost a tournament game because of a mistake in judgment.
(Not a practice game, since there, you're still learning how to judge situations. Not just a mistake like a misclick or poor control or something like that. And not a "I chose to do X and the opponent blind countered it with Y, so choosing to do X turned out to be a mistake." But a "I had information X, Y, and Z. At the time, I thought that the best option, given that information, was A, so I did it. But now I think that, given that information, I should have chosen to do B instead.)
Obviously, this is prompted by a recent MLG game, but I'm not asking about that any game in particular. I'm curious on a more general level.
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On June 06 2011 03:19 Yamulo wrote:
Guys zerg is so bad that there is 9 of them in the top 16, this is a rather compelling argument... But, i can't wait till the next sotg and i really do hope they focus on MLG (which i assume they will do).
Sotg wont be back for awhile so i doubt they will cover mlg.
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I realised that there won't be a STOG to discuss this MLG , and it makes me so sad , there would be some many things to say.
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On June 06 2011 05:30 Jetaap wrote:
I realised that there won't be a STOG to discuss this MLG , and it makes me so sad , there would be some many things to say.
Indeed. Weird decision. Would have loved a post-MLG show.
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Wow no SotG for awhile makes the events of MLG seem slightly less epic since we won't get to hear some awesome discussion on it.
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Yeah. 
This was pretty much the best podcast ever. Inside the Game is nice but not the same.
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We -need- a sotg this week to cover the events at MLG, please JP make it happen!
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EPT
