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Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting.
SC2 community manager Bashiok doesn't seem to think there's too much of an issue :o
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374942110?page=2#25
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On August 17 2010 10:28 Surrealz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 10:25 Dental Floss wrote:
3 of those win streaks are from oGstheSTC. Doesn't 1 really good player throw off your point a bit? except tester is better than stc, but is constantly screwed over by terran imba
rofl please TvP is far from imba; TvZ on the other hand.......
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On August 17 2010 14:26 Armut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 14:22 Sixes wrote:
Just saw STC against a zerg and it wasn't even funny. Was like watching a pro gamer beat up on a silver league player. Hellion harass into proxy banshees and seconds after, more hellions with pre igniter. The poor zerg player killed 1 banshee and 3-4 hellions, lost his 4 queens, all his drones, his base and the game.
Now we see what happens when Terran players don't just turtle and mech ... as if we didn't have enough problems with the mech lol. tough the zerg really played like a silver level player with 0 transfusions..
the only silver worth here is ur comment , i mean srsly transfusion...
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He actually did use 1 transfusion, vs. the initial first two banshees at the natural expansion. He couldn't use more transfusions because his queens didn't have enough energy.
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On August 17 2010 14:31 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting. SC2 community manager Bashiok doesn't seem to think there's too much of an issue :o http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374942110?page=2#25
In the same thread he does say that Blizzard is aware of all of the zerg concerns.
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I doubt he knows anything about an upcoming patch. He's just making some neutral comment about how Blizzard will let the dust settle down before balancing.
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On August 17 2010 14:43 st3roids wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 14:26 Armut wrote:On August 17 2010 14:22 Sixes wrote:
Just saw STC against a zerg and it wasn't even funny. Was like watching a pro gamer beat up on a silver league player. Hellion harass into proxy banshees and seconds after, more hellions with pre igniter. The poor zerg player killed 1 banshee and 3-4 hellions, lost his 4 queens, all his drones, his base and the game.
Now we see what happens when Terran players don't just turtle and mech ... as if we didn't have enough problems with the mech lol. tough the zerg really played like a silver level player with 0 transfusions.. the only silver worth here is ur comment , i mean srsly transfusion...
And actually there was one too, not that it saved the queens but it probably made the difference between one dead banshee and no dead banshees.
The thing with transfusions is it requires energy, queens don't start at 200/200 (in fact they start 25 short of a transfusion).
The Zerg wasn't great (for a pro) but he played a pretty standard build, defended the hellions fine and would have defended the preigniter as well. He just wasn't expecting the banshees as they were a hidden proxy. That is something else Terran can do more easily than the other races.
It just came down to the Terran doing several kinds of harass with the ever present threat of a timing push (by the looks of it I would say the Zerg was thinking it was a hellion/marauder push on the way). Zerg couldn't get good enough scouting (and it really wasn't his fault, pretty sure he had an overlord get in and everything as normal).
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 17 2010 14:31 Tachion wrote:Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting. SC2 community manager Bashiok doesn't seem to think there's too much of an issue :o http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374942110?page=2#25
I think that the bolded part may not be the most important part of the message.
Also remember that Bashiok just acts as a link between devs and players, his input about balance may not be 100% relevant, like his comment about korean top20.
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Zerg balance changes are coming in the next patch, Bashiok hinted at it in the thread Tachion linked.
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On August 17 2010 15:15 Therapist.. wrote:
Zerg balance changes are coming in the next patch, Bashiok hinted at it in the thread Tachion linked.
Zerg nerfs are coming, he hinter about 10 out of 20 in korea and the same kinds of changes from Beta. I dont want to have to change races 
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so zerg gonna get nerfed because it is cheap in KR servers. They are implying that koreans are more strategic in their games and say zerg is imba?? look at oGstheStC, He will rip all the top 20 zergs apart
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please,, lets clear something up
TVP IS NOT IMBALANCED. some units in this game can use some minor tweaking but the matchup as a whole is not imbalanced.
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On August 17 2010 15:41 buKe wrote:
please,, lets clear something up
TVP IS NOT IMBALANCED. some units in this game can use some minor tweaking but the matchup as a whole is not imbalanced.
yes it is.. have fun getting your t2 units crushed by t1 with t1 upgrades (stim). Yes even your t3 by t1 with t1 upgrades
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On August 17 2010 15:41 buKe wrote:
please,, lets clear something up
TVP IS NOT IMBALANCED. some units in this game can use some minor tweaking but the matchup as a whole is not imbalanced.
The very fact units require tweaking, no matter how minor or major it may be, means something is wrong. If something is wrong, we're going to call it imbalanced. Seriously, did you read what you wrote before you posted it?
"My goal posts are 1 meter apart, and my opponents goal posts are 2 meters apart, while this requires minor tweaking to fix it: it's clearly fair for the time being."
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On August 17 2010 14:38 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 10:28 Surrealz wrote:On August 17 2010 10:25 Dental Floss wrote:
3 of those win streaks are from oGstheSTC. Doesn't 1 really good player throw off your point a bit? except tester is better than stc, but is constantly screwed over by terran imba rofl please TvP is far from imba; TvZ on the other hand.......
QFT.
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absolutely loving those 'but earth IS flat' comments, more mooore!
this thread made my day ;D
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On August 17 2010 15:42 backtoback wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 15:41 buKe wrote:
please,, lets clear something up
TVP IS NOT IMBALANCED. some units in this game can use some minor tweaking but the matchup as a whole is not imbalanced. yes it is.. have fun getting your t2 units crushed by t1 with t1 upgrades (stim). Yes even your t3 by t1 with t1 upgrades
That T2 T3/T1 argument is so false it hurts me everytime somebody uses it.
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how is tvp not imba. from all the games i play against t, even if i outmacro i still have a very tough time winning. mmm with stim and concussive shells is just absolutely insane for how much they cost, and the rate you can produce them at. and if you have any detection, scouting is literally impossible..and we're stuck to guess what you're doing out of the like..10 choices you have. terran? couple well placed scans will do just fine. and don't get me started on emp...
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51602 Posts
the live stream is over right?
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EPT
