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[M] (4)Fort(Working title) - Release

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-03 17:48:13
July 02 2010 05:40 GMT
#1
[image loading]
[image loading]

Version Updated to 1.04 - July 02, 2010 - 11 PM EST
Download Link --> here.

Introduction

It's been some time since I've gone ahead and done a complete release for a map, and while I've had a few candidates in mind this ultimately was the one I choose to present here on TL.net

I choose this map over my others for several reasons but primarily, I thought this map was the best mix of my four player maps - in terms of it is the best one I've done to support all three types of play listed on the map card above. My inspirations didn't come from any map in particular, however, the single block cliffs scattered across the map are definitely inspired from BW in general, I personally always liked maps that had little nooks and cracks to hide units , it made for interesting play.

Photo Gallery

New for Version 1.04
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[image loading]
View of the middle of the map(Version 1.04 re-tool)


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[image loading]
View of main and natural (Version 1.04 adjustments))


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[image loading]
Overhead view of the map (Version 1.04)


Old for Version 1.03
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[image loading]
Direct over-head view(Versions 1.00 - 1.03)


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[image loading]
Tower positions(Versions 1.00 - 1.03)


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Over-head angled view


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[image loading]
View of 5 o'clock main and natural


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[image loading]
View of island at 6 o'clock


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[image loading]
View of semi-island 3rd and gold expansion, on 11/5 o'clock side of the map


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[image loading]
View of the middle of the map(Versions 1.00 - 1.03)



SC2 Map Analyzer Output

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Bases
bases appear at 1, 5, 7, and 11 o'clock description for each image appears below the spoiler-ed image
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[image loading]

base analysis - note 'Semi-Island' is the intended third, during my own play testing versus AI the 'Semi-island' as an open / easy to access third favored Zerg too much

Influences

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[image loading]
one o'clock versus five o'clock

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one o'clock versus seven o'clock

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[image loading]
seven o'clock versus five o'clock

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus one o'clock

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus five o'clock

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus seven o'clock


Shortest Paths

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus seven o'clock

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus five o'clock

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[image loading]
eleven o'clock versus one o'clock

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[image loading]
seven o'clock versus five o'clock

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[image loading]
one o'clock versus seven o'clock

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[image loading]
one o'clock versus five o'clock



Discussion on Data

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As can be seen from the data above I've tried to keep the rush distances fairly close to what we've come to expect of four player maps which are used for one versus one. I personally like what I'm seeing with the influence as once the players try to achieve a fourth or fifth base there is a near 50/50 influence on the base from any given spawn positions.

I will be posting complete screenshots in the morning as currently I'm still finalizing the terrain (in terms of doodads and texture). I'd like some people to play the map first as well so I can make any positional changes people think may be necessary.


Features of the Map

+ Show Spoiler +
1. Easy to defend natural and mains. I've put holes in the space platform around the mains and naturals in order to force reapers to have to scale the cliffs from certain directions. (added Ver. 1.00)

2. Nearby third that has destructible rocks blocking accessing - I played fifteen matches versus Green Tea AI and every time I was Zerg or the AI was Zerg the original style of the third too favorable towards Zerg. For those interest previous versions had a wide-open third. Again 'Semi-Islands' is the intended third. (added Ver. 1.03)

3. Fourths are still not very far away but are not easy to defend, fifths are available in wide-open center bases, Islands at 12 and 6 o'clock and golds and 9 and 3 o'clock. (added Ver. 1.00)

4. Watch towers outside each players base, can be defended from third bases once they are claimed (added Ver. 1.00)

5. Various areas on the map have single blocks of second level cliffs, these serve to allow ground units to hide in and around them before air comes in to play. (added Ver. 1.00)

6. ALL Geysers are High-yield geysers. Note: This does not mean that you have more gas, only that you get 6 per trip rather than 4 per trip. In my testing this simply made tech come earlier, but made thirds and fourths far more important as you mine out your geysers well before minerals. Let me know what everyone thinks. (added Ver. 1.00)


Name 'Contest'

This really isn't so much a contest as it is an opportunity for people to tell me what name they think the map should have, and for me to pick a better name than the current one. I'll let the thread sit for a while and once I see some suggestions I like I'll put up a poll where people can pick the name.

Changelog: Current Version - 1.04

+ Show Spoiler +

coming for Version 1.05
+ Show Spoiler +

- Mains and naturals will now have two standard-yield geysers as opposed to two high-yield geysers

-All other bases will have one high-yield geyser at 3000 gas (not the standard 2500)

-Both of these are in an effort to control tech pacings better and also to have a 'BW-feel' when it comes to gas harvesting once you leave your natural - depending on feedback I may reduce all bases to one high-yield 3k geyser, but unlikely

-More visions blockers in various locations, doodads, foliage, and final textures will be added

-Probably the last 'Beta' version, in that unless someone finds an unforeseen gaping imbalance somewhere in my map this will be the finalized version

from version 1.03
+ Show Spoiler +
-Adjusted mains by adding a new platform at the back of the second-level cliff, so that Reapers can enter the mains from the rear of the main (previously they could only enter from the front cliff that overlooks the path to the third)

-Also added pathing blockers on the some of the cliffs surounding the mains and nats, to force Terran tanks to have to be placed further back (and thus reduce their effective range). This will be my first change to limit tank use, but I do not want to close the strategy completely.

-Re-tooled the middle. The two expansions from version 1.03 are now changed to Island Gold expansions, which also have vision blockers (to force tanks/any units up there to have Air to fire down below). The middle of the map now has a wide open channel between the two golds at 3 and 6 o'clock. This was in part to allow both center expansions to be controlled by different teams simultaneously.


from version 1.02
+ Show Spoiler +
- Walled off thirds, they are indicated as 'Semi-islands' on the map analyzer output. This was done in an effort to make it a less favorable map in general for greedy Zerg builds.

-Added additional single-block cliffs in various locations

-Moved Xel'Naga towers further away from naturals due to the changes to thirds.


from version 1.01

+ Show Spoiler +
-Fixed single-block cliffs as I had unintentionally left spaces allowing Zerglings and small units to have far great than intended rush distances.


Conclusion

+ Show Spoiler +
I hope everyone enjoys the map, and I'd like to make it clear that it is still a work in progress, however I intend to keep the general layout the same. I was thinking of possibly making 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock have two bases one on the left and right sides of the map, let me know what you guys think. If I did this they would no long be islands and would be probably similar to the 'Semi-island' thirds in design.
i-bonjwa
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 06:01:45
July 02 2010 06:01 GMT
#2
This map looks nightmarish for zerg. Apt name for terran map imo
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
DamonRJ
Profile Joined May 2010
United States76 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 06:12:38
July 02 2010 06:08 GMT
#3
im very curious to find out what 3rd feature of the map is



but i especially like all of the data that you have put out there

i think you should just remove the 2 middle expansions. Since this map is intended for 1v1 play its not like there is any shortage of resources on the map with out them. I dont like the idea of multiple middle expansions because in order for one to be secured you have to secure both of them, if you want a middle expansion just make it one expansion in the shape of a circle or some thing. Thats the only real issue that i have with the map, other than that i cant really see anything else
Live only for yourself, any selfless deed is an untruthful and manipulative one
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
July 02 2010 06:09 GMT
#4
Can you post a top down view please? Angled views are very hard to "read"
133 221 333 123 111
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
July 02 2010 06:25 GMT
#5
I think the map wouldn't lose anything if the terrain along the path from center to gold expo was made into open space. So the high ground with towers becomes the border moving into the gold expo and the space on the map is just increased in general. Ya? No?

And I like the idea of a (good) third behind d-rocks. There's a lot of choice there. I can plan ahead and attack the rocks to take it, or play aggressively and skip it for a central or hidden third.

Also, all geysers high-yield? The first problem with that is high-yield geysers have the same model as regular, so your average player might not even realize it! But honestly, Fort-name-pending is a big map with a lot of bases (compared to 2 start location maps) and I'm guessing many play styles will in fact get a lot of tech going.

Complain-complain-complain-and oh yeah, nice job! Your terraining is pleasing to the eye and reminds me of pro BW maps!
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-02 06:29:44
July 02 2010 06:26 GMT
#6
On July 02 2010 15:09 GenesisX wrote:
Can you post a top down view please? Angled views are very hard to "read"


Sure I'll post that when I wake up tomorrow I'm just about to go to bed now (2:30 AM here).

Thanks for the feedback so far those who posted, please if you have access to AI opponents test the map and see how it plays out.

I'm thinking I may return at least the main and naturals to have regular geysers rather than high yield ones. I have a re-tool in mind for the islands and the center, but I'd still like more input from others before I do so - specifically people who'v play tested versus GreenTea AI, YABOT, Mimic AI, or similar maps/assets.

I'd still like to have at least one middle base still, not to support 1v1 play with more resources, but so 2v2/FFA is still possible, but more importantly so there isn't a massive open space in the middle - although perhaps that would be a good thing. I'll have to play it more myself and try rushing versus teching and so on.
i-bonjwa
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 02 2010 06:37 GMT
#7
Do you seriously have not a single overview picture of the map? Why in the world would you post an angled version without the overlooking version?
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
July 02 2010 20:08 GMT
#8
On July 02 2010 15:37 FabledIntegral wrote:
Do you seriously have not a single overview picture of the map? Why in the world would you post an angled version without the overlooking version?


I'm going to go by the utter lack of quality of your post and say that you've never once made a map, and furthermore didn't even read or look at my OP. I clearly posted an SC2Map analyzer
overhead view showing a breakdown of the bases. Had you taken more than 10 second to formulate your asinine and fool-hearty post you would have noticed this. In addition, I clearly stated I did not upload complete screenshots as I had not taken them at that point and was still working on the texturing of the map. Thanks for proving your ignorance.


On Topic
For the rest of the people out there that have constructive criticism towards my map. I have updated the OP with a complete photo gallery, enjoy.
i-bonjwa
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
July 02 2010 20:21 GMT
#9
The new shots give a good overall feeling for the map. I have some comments for you:

-The gallery part of your post have a spoilered image and a title, but it looks like the title goes with the image below it when I'm pretty sure it goes with the image above. I suggest putting the image's title right into the spoiler tags like:

spoiler=This image is awesome
IMG
close spoiler

-Also, why the pairs of towers at the center landmass? Isn't one tower in the middle of the walkway enough to give vision over the nearby expos?
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
July 02 2010 20:33 GMT
#10
On July 03 2010 05:21 dimfish wrote:
The new shots give a good overall feeling for the map. I have some comments for you:

-The gallery part of your post have a spoilered image and a title, but it looks like the title goes with the image below it when I'm pretty sure it goes with the image above. I suggest putting the image's title right into the spoiler tags like:

spoiler=This image is awesome
IMG
close spoiler

-Also, why the pairs of towers at the center landmass? Isn't one tower in the middle of the walkway enough to give vision over the nearby expos?


1. Yea I was thinking that myself, I've actually started to edit to the whole OP so all captions/titles appear in spoilers where appropriate.

2. Yea probably, I was in symmetry mode when I put down those towers, wasn't so much thinking of specific placement as making them mirror each other. Ver 1.04 is already in the works with a complete re-tool to the middle (will still house 4 thirds/fourths and the two other bases, but I'll re-do it to give a larger battlefield in the middle)

Once again thanks for the feedback. I'd really like to hear what some people's experience are on the map versus AI. Mine have been good so far, and I've won with a rush, a hard tech and hard macro, which is basically my goal with the map - allow as many play styles as possible.
i-bonjwa
ckw
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1018 Posts
July 02 2010 21:48 GMT
#11
Yeah very Terran siege tank friendly. Small skinny walls make for a perfect spot for like 25 siege tanks to be safe in the main and protect their natural expo. Turtle mania
Being weak is a choice.
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2409 Posts
July 02 2010 21:55 GMT
#12
Looks interesting! [I'll judge balance when I play it]

I think you might want to consider making one expansion in the center instead of two, because two players on opposite teams couldn't each control one of the expansions. Although, if it was a 2v2, both players could expand there and gain map control.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 18:13:12
July 03 2010 03:38 GMT
#13
Disregard this post.
i-bonjwa
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 18:16:11
July 09 2010 18:14 GMT
#14
Map is published on BNET US Server as Braxian Fortress, please test, and enjoy. Version 1.06 will be up today, 1.05 is current published version.

Just a small update on the map. I've moved up to version 1.05 with some retooling the island expansions, and the mains. I've added nydus/proxy/drop spots and destructible rocks. I am aware of an issue with destructible rock pathing (units can sneak past them) which I will be fixing today.

Edit - If a mod sees this could you kindly change the title to '(4) Braxian Fortress - Map Release' thanks in advance.
i-bonjwa
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